Stef-the new point guard?

[Icebear]

You've changed your argument from "Baylor" to "teams". That is a critical difference.
On the latter, yes. The risk/reward of not guarding her is higher for most teams than it is for Baylor.

For Baylor, however, Griner is so dominant and imposing in the lane, *anything* that draws her away is a major downgrading of their defense. If I were their coach, moving her out would not be worth it. I'd rather let Dolson shoot away, and if she hits them, so be it.

No, Baylor, is the key reason. You extrapolated it to teams. But you don't install this for just one game. It takes time to perfect the threat. Also, it is not just Stef but the threat of both the bigs, Stef and Breanna, being interchangeable to shoot at the top of the key foul line to the 3 that creates the situation potentially forcing Griner to move further up the key.

 

[pppggg]

John Wooden never had to worry about the three point shot.

please note that I did not say Walton took 3 pointers. I pointed out he took shots from the top of the key.

thanks.

 

[pppggg]

No, Baylor, is the key reason. You extrapolated it to teams. But you don't install this for just one game. It takes time to perfect the threat.

well spoken icebear. you get it.

 

[pppggg]

You've changed your argument from "Baylor" to "teams". That is a critical difference.
On the latter, yes. The risk/reward of not guarding her is higher for most teams than it is for Baylor.

For Baylor, however, Griner is so dominant and imposing in the lane, *anything* that draws her away is a major downgrading of their defense. If I were their coach, moving her out would not be worth it. I'd rather let Dolson shoot away, and if she hits them, so be it.

no change in the argument. see ibebear's post.

 

[Icebear]

well spoken icebear. you get it.

I have ever since last year in my discussions with wirechief of why it was good for Stef to occupy the high post. As I just noted it is not just Stef but, also, Breanna that present a threat from the high post. Plus there is Stef's threat as a passer from up there.

 

[huskeynut]

If you watch BG, she will come out to challenge the foul line jumper which Stef is very capable of making consistently. So the logic is take a few steps back and shoot. BG will still challenge it.

Bring BG out and Stewie if free down low. And we know Steph is an excellent passer.

The problem for Baylor becomes does BG come out or sty down low.

Seeing two games live so far, Steph and Stewie are developing that chemistry. Geno is working this now for results later against Baylor, Stanford an ND.

 

[pppggg]

If you watch BG, she will come out to challenge the foul line jumper which Stef is very capable of making consistently. So the logic is take a few steps back and shoot. BG will still challenge it.

Bring BG out and Stewie if free down low. And we know Steph is an excellent passer.

The problem for Baylor becomes does BG come out or sty down low.

Seeing two games live so far, Steph and Stewie are developing that chemistry. Geno is working this now for results later against Baylor, Stanford an ND.

someone else besides icebear that gets it.

 

[meyers7]

Watched it? Ive played it at I am 100 % sure higher level than you have.

If you did, you sure didn't learn much.

By the way, Walton at the high post taking those shots is part of the UCLA, John Wooden high-low post offence offense and we all know how Geno feels about that. He runs it, to some degree, every game, doesn't he? The misssing part-a post at the top of the key hitting those shot every game. But of course you knew that, didn't you?

If you knew anything about it you would know the "high post" in Wooden's offense was right around the freethrow line, not out at the 3 pt line (now). Also the point of the 5 coming to the high post is to allow back cuts by the 3/4s. Not necessarily to shoot from there. But of course if it's open, and your 5 can shoot.....
Take a look at Walton's NCAA championship game (44 points), see how many shots he takes at the high post. Actually in this game they ran a lot of 2 low posts.



And just for you basketball education, UCONN runs a 4 out (sometimes a 3 out) motion offense. Not a real high-low post offense.

IMO Geno is having Stef work on that shot in practice and games in prep for the Baylor game. There is no other logical reason for her taking that shot every game so far, is there? In fact it would be locial that she not take that shot, wouldn't it? And Geno should be chewing her out for taking that shot, shouldn't he? Wait! I'am sorry Geno never gets mad when his players take a bad shot out of their range, right?

I have no doubt he is allowing her to shoot from there. It's a natural progression in her career. She's a good shooter and has been shooting from just inside the arc for the past couple years. It's much more for her development (WNBA/WNT) as anything. And if she does become proficient at it in the next couple of years, then sure that may pull a center out a little further. BUT, it ain't for this year against Griner. And anyone who thinks it is is nuts. And I know Geno is not that nuts. 1) Mulkey isn't stupid enough to let Griner chase Dolson all the way out to the 3 pt line 2) there's no way she is going to become a 3 pt threat by shooting 1-2 3-pointers a game by Feb.

If you have any other basketball questions I can help you with , let me know.

 

[pppggg]

I have ever since last year in my discussions with wirechief of why it was good for Stef to occupy the high post. As I just noted it is not just Stef but, also, Breanna that present a threat from the high post. Plus there is Stef's threat as a passer from up there.

Stef only has to be a threat out there and you are right about her passing, just like Walton in that respect. BG will have to go futher away from the hoop to cover her. Hartly, Banks and Stewie will really hurt the Baylor Bears.

Is it good or bad that we are both old enough to have seen the Walton/Wooden offense?

Well, at least we can still know it when we see it and that's a good thing.

 

[Icebear]

Stef only has to be a threat out there and you are right about her passing, just like Walton in that respect. BG will have to go futher away from the hoop to cover her. Hartly, Banks and Stewie will really hurt the Baylor Bears.

Is it good or bad that we are both old enough to have seen the Walton/Wooden offense?

Well, at least we can still know it when we see it and that's a good thing.

Plus we have run a lot of cuts for Stef from high to low. Doing this Stewie can rotate to the top and the two then invert roles.

 

[pppggg]

If you did, you sure didn't learn much.

If you knew anything about it you would know the "high post" in Wooden's offense was right around the freethrow line, not out at the 3 pt line (now). Also the point of the 5 coming to the high post is to allow back cuts by the 3/4s. Not necessarily to shoot from there. But of course if it's open, and your 5 can shoot.....
Take a look at Walton's NCAA championship game (44 points), see how many shots he takes at the high post. Actually in this game they ran a lot of 2 low posts.



And just for you basketball education, UCONN runs a 4 out (sometimes a 3 out) motion offense. Not a real high-low post offense.

I have no doubt he is allowing her to shoot from there. It's a natural progression in her career. She's a good shooter and has been shooting from just inside the arc for the past couple years. It's much more for her development (WNBA/WNT) as anything. And if she does become proficient at it in the next couple of years, then sure that may pull a center out a little further. BUT, it ain't for this year against Griner. And anyone who thinks it is is nuts. And I know Geno is not that nuts. 1) Mulkey isn't stupid enough to let Griner chase Dolson all the way out to the 3 pt line 2) there's no way she is going to become a 3 pt threat by shooting 1-2 3-pointers a game by Feb.

If you have any other basketball questions I can help you with , let me know.

I played for and learn from a coach named Jim Federico aka The Whip. Look up his record. One of the best high school coaches ever. Consistantly won state and new england titles with a school having a total enrolloment of about 500 kids. You needed more than ablity to play for him. I saw him cut the best kid in the school, a 6'6" center who could shot the heck out of the ball. Why? because the kid didn't have the guts and the desire to play as hard as the Whip wanted him to and he wasn't wasting a spot on a quiter. We won the state title that year.
You take 1 youtube cut where game and the the opponent determines where you post up and say that's how the Wooden offense was run. Obviously you won't have the ability the guts or the knowledge to play for a good high school team. I would bet you wouldn't make day 2 of the Whips tryouts.

 

[pppggg]

If you did, you sure didn't learn much.

If you knew anything about it you would know the "high post" in Wooden's offense was right around the freethrow line, not out at the 3 pt line (now). Also the point of the 5 coming to the high post is to allow back cuts by the 3/4s. Not necessarily to shoot from there. But of course if it's open, and your 5 can shoot.....
Take a look at Walton's NCAA championship game (44 points), see how many shots he takes at the high post. Actually in this game they ran a lot of 2 low posts.



And just for you basketball education, UCONN runs a 4 out (sometimes a 3 out) motion offense. Not a real high-low post offense.

I have no doubt he is allowing her to shoot from there. It's a natural progression in her career. She's a good shooter and has been shooting from just inside the arc for the past couple years. It's much more for her development (WNBA/WNT) as anything. And if she does become proficient at it in the next couple of years, then sure that may pull a center out a little further. BUT, it ain't for this year against Griner. And anyone who thinks it is is nuts. And I know Geno is not that nuts. 1) Mulkey isn't stupid enough to let Griner chase Dolson all the way out to the 3 pt line 2) there's no way she is going to become a 3 pt threat by shooting 1-2 3-pointers a game by Feb.

If you have any other basketball questions I can help you with , let me know.

By the way, I forgot to mention that Stef's freshman years I email Bill Walton's site commenting on I her passing ablity at the high post and how simular the offense was to the one he ran. I actually got a response back and posted it on the old forum, where I think you can still find it. So apparently you know more about the UCLA offense than Walton and Geno. Have you considered putting in for Geno's job?

 

[Wiltonian]

Walton at the high post taking those shots is part of the UCLA, John Wooden high-low post offence offense and we all know how Geno feels about that. He runs it, to some degree, every game, doesn't he? The misssing part-a post at the top of the key hitting those shot every game. But of course you knew that, didn't you?

Paige Sauer had been hitting those threes from the top of the key in many if not most of her games, and was hitting at a fairly high percentage, so was Kelly Schumacher. I think Rebecca Lobo did also; not sure of Big Rig.

 

[Icebear]

Kaili McLaren, too, both shooting and passing.

 

[meyers7]

I played for and learn from a coach named Jim Federico aka The Whip. Look up his record. One of the best high school coaches ever. Consistantly won state and new england titles with a school having a total enrolloment of about 500 kids. You needed more than ablity to play for him. I saw him cut the best kid in the school, a 6'6" center who could shot the heck out of the ball. Why? because the kid didn't have the guts and the desire to play as hard as the Whip wanted him to and he wasn't wasting a spot on a quiter. We won the state title that year.

Well good for you. Doesn't have anything to do with what we are talking about, but good for you.
Also I googled Jim Federico aka The Whip. Rhode Island? Really? Rhode Island? That basketball hot spot? You are funny.

You take 1 youtube cut where game and the the opponent determines where you post up and say that's how the Wooden offense was run.

No actually I didn't say that. I explained briefly how the high post was used in a Wooden offense. Then since you brought up Walton (who happens to be my favorite and imo the best center of all time) so I showed you a clip of his greatest game (the 21/22 game) and how he was used in that as an example (not of Wooden's normal offense, but how Walton was used). Wooden actually used Walton and Alcindor a bit differently due to the low post presence they could bring.

Obviously you won't have the ability the guts or the knowledge to play for a good high school team.

Well I probably would have had the guts and knowledge. But no, I didn't have the ability to play for MY high school team. Didn't have the height or speed. Had I grown up in the basketball hotbed of RI p) I probably would have.

I would bet you wouldn't make day 2 of the Whips tryouts.

Prolly not, I'm not that old. I don't even think I was born yet.

 

[meyers7]

By the way, I forgot to mention that Stef's freshman years I email Bill Walton's site commenting on I her passing ablity at the high post and how simular the offense was to the one he ran. I actually got a response back and posted it on the old forum, where I think you can still find it. So apparently you know more about the UCLA offense than Walton and Geno. Have you considered putting in for Geno's job?

I enough to know Geno doesn't run the UCLA offense. Something I guess you have not been able to grasp. As I've said he runs the motion offense (usually 4 out, but sometimes a 3 out). It can as we have seen have a high/low post component to it. Although similar, they are different. Geno's offense linage is Bobby Knight and I believe Hank Iba. Although, yes Geno does really admire Wooden. Who wouldn't? I'm sure Geno has tweaked this offense to suit him and maybe even added in some elements from Wooden. But at it's core it's the motion offense.

Geno didn't really start running this particular offense until iirc, the first Italy summer trip. I remember him talking about the kids learning a new offense on their trip. Just not sure when that trip was.

 

[Bestiarius]

As we know, Geno's player have had great success in the WNBA. What a Uconn player gets at Uconn is an excellent preparation for the next level. I believe Geno does things with players that aren't always necessary for the team's success, but are critical for increasing players' resume for the future. Dolson's longer range shooting and Faris' concentration on offense are examples.

 

[meyers7]

Paige Sauer had been hitting those threes from the top of the key in many if not most of her games, and was hitting at a fairly high percentage, so was Kelly Schumacher. I think Rebecca Lobo did also; not sure of Big Rig.

Paige Sauer - career 20/59 in 134 games. 34%. Attempted under .5 a game. So....no
Kelly Schumaker - career 2/9 in 132 games 22%. Attempted under .1 a game. So....no
Rebecca Lob0 (ok you got something here) - career 58/171 in 126 games 34%. Attempted 1.4 a game. So....yea. Not really a 3 pt shooter, but a little bit of a threat.
Christine Rigby - career 0/0 in 49 games 0%. Attempted 0 a game. So.....no

Kaili McLaren, too, both shooting and passing.

Kaili McLaren - career 2/19 in 144 games 10%. Attempted a little over .1 a game. So.....no

 

[meyers7]

As we know, Geno's player have had great success in the WNBA. What a Uconn player gets at Uconn is an excellent preparation for the next level. I believe Geno does things with players that aren't always necessary for the team's success, but are critical for increasing players' resume for the future. Dolson's longer range shooting and Faris' concentration on offense are examples.

YES!

 

[Icebear]

Paige Sauer - career 20/59 in 134 games. 34%. Attempted under .5 a game. So....no
Kelly Schumaker - career 2/9 in 132 games 22%. Attempted under .1 a game. So....no
Rebecca Lob0 (ok you got something here) - career 58/171 in 126 games 34%. Attempted 1.4 a game. So....yea. Not really a 3 pt shooter, but a little bit of a threat.
Christine Rigby - career 0/0 in 49 games 0%. Attempted 0 a game. So.....no


Kaili McLaren - career 2/19 in 144 games 10%. Attempted a little over .1 a game. So.....no

Paige Sauer - career 20/59 in 134 games. 34%. Attempted under .5 a game. So....no
Kelly Schumaker - career 2/9 in 132 games 22%. Attempted under .1 a game. So....no
Rebecca Lob0 (ok you got something here) - career 58/171 in 126 games 34%. Attempted 1.4 a game. So....yea. Not really a 3 pt shooter, but a little bit of a threat.
Christine Rigby - career 0/0 in 49 games 0%. Attempted 0 a game. So.....no


Kaili McLaren - career 2/19 in 144 games 10%. Attempted a little over .1 a game. So.....no

I referred to Kaili in regards to shooting from the high post/FT line and passing from the high post. Not in reference to 3s. She was quite capable of hitting the elbow jumper (per se).

You are confusing two things. Playing out of the high post position and trying to stretch the high post position out to the area of 3s. These are distinctly different but the first can benefit from the second but is not completely contingent of the second. I never said it was pppggg never said it was, huskynut never said it was. We simply observed there is benefit against specific teams like Baylor as a tactic. A tactic that must be practiced to be effective and one we have clear evidence in games and from practice reports that is something being encouraged. The evidence is there that it is happening. You don't have to like it but that doesn't change the facts of observation and reports.

 

[alexrgct]

please note that I did not say Walton took 3 pointers. I pointed out he took shots from the top of the key.

thanks.

Please note that was a joke and you may wish to lighten up a bit. Doing so is good for the soul.

You're welcome.

 

[huskeynut]

A lot of great points are being made about Steph shooting long range and the ramifications, including the next step - the WNBA.

The fact the we have a 6'5" post who can shoot consistently from 12 to 18 feet and a 6'4" post, forward who can shoot the 3, handle the ball like a guard and play inside and down low is something most teams can't match up with. Now you add the ability of Stewie playing the high post, a legitimate 3 point threat, and Steph down low, with her ability to shoot with either hand, who do you try to stop? How do you match up besides packing the lane? Not necessarily a good idea with KML, Bria, Banks and suddenly Kelly hitting 3's.

Assuming the motion offense concept, 5 options for each player when they receive the ball, the ability to negate the defensive prowess of one big player, specifically BG, increases. Baylor's defense is predicated on BG being able to stop up the lane if a player gets in the lane. I don't see Madden or Williams being able to stop Stewie. Let's take in Stanford and ND to the discussion. ND - Achonwa is their big girl. A decent player and getting better. She guards Steph up on the key. Who takes Stewie with Steph's shooting and passing ability - Wright? Achonwa can't cover both and Peters isn't there anymore and ND is out of height. Take Stanford, Chiney is their best player at 6'3". She probably takes Stewie. That takes Chiney away from the boards. That leaves Tinkle at 6'3" to guard Steph. Who wins the matchups? If Steph is down low, Tinkle could be in big trouble.

I think the point is that Geno knows he has two big girls, with different skill sets, that gives Uconn a big advantage on the court. He is working each little detail to make the Stewie/ Steph combo is as deadly as possible. And he runs the type of offense to do just that. Then insert freshman Morgan Tuck as 6'3" who has shown she can hit the 3, drive the lane and play tough down low. That's three big girls who can do damage. I would not be surprised, despite all the talent, that we see more of the front court of Steph, Stewie and Morgan as time goes on. Geno is not only coaching for the next game but for the tournament runs and beyond.

 

[meyers7]

I referred to Kaili in regards to shooting from the high post/FT line and passing from the high post. Not in reference to 3s. She was quite capable of hitting the elbow jumper (per se).

Ummm no. You were referring to Wiltonian who said "hitting those threes from the top of the key". He listed Sauer, etc. and you added in "Kaili McClaren too". We are discussing shooting 3's. If you are going to jump into conversations you need to pay attention.

You are confusing two things.

NO!!!!!!! YOU guys are confusing 2 things. Shooting from the 3 and playing a high post offense. They are not the same and don't really have anything to do with each other.

The evidence is there that it is happening. You don't have to like it but that doesn't change the facts of observation and reports.

No it is not. Taking 5 three point shots in 8 games is no evidence of what you are proposing. (besides what you are proposing is just silly) . The only thing it means is Geno is giving Dolson the green light to shoot the 3, but not often.

There is no way on God's green earth that Dolson shooting a few 3's in the next couple of months is gonna cause Griner to chase her out to the 3 pt line to guard her there. Geno and Mulkey are not that stupid, though some on here seem to be. Just ridiculous. Seriously, can you guys know this little about basketball after watching it for so many years?

 

[Icebear]

Ummm no. You were referring to Wiltonian who said "hitting those threes from the top of the key". He listed Sauer, etc. and you added in "Kaili McClaren too". We are discussing shooting 3's. If you are going to jump into conversations you need to pay attention.

There are multiple conversations going on. I was referring to the top of the key which is from the foul line to the top of the circle.

NO!!!!!!! YOU guys are confusing 2 things. Shooting from the 3 and playing a high post offense. They are not the same and don't really have anything to do with each other.

Not confused at sall we understand each other perfectly as is clear from our comments and analysis that over lap neatly.


No it is not. Taking 5 three point shots in 8 games is no evidence of what you are proposing. (besides what you are proposing is just silly) . The only thing it means is Geno is giving Dolson the green light to shoot the 3, but not often.

It is not just the shots in games it is those shots, plus Stef clearly considering taking additional shots PLUS Kara's comments about practice.

There is no way on God's green earth that Dolson shooting a few 3's in the next couple of months is gonna cause Griner to chase her out to the 3 pt line to guard her there. Geno and Mulkey are not that stupid, though some on here seem to be. Just ridiculous. Seriously, can you guys know this little about basketball after watching it for so many years?

 

[pppggg]

Does anyone who has watched Geno yank a girl in a heartbeat and chew her out infront of a sellout croud on national TV for a mistake think Geno would allow Step to take 3's and not even run his hands thru his hair? And Geno has at least 2 players that could fill in at the post while her was chewiing her out. Stef taking 3's wth her low post moves hardly warrents her working on that shot especially againts the teams they have played so far, does it?
She has pretty much been able to score at will.

Geno would be break dancing on the sidelines watching her take that shot unless, of course, he had a reason for her to take that shot.