Standford is suppose to be the smart kids

[JordyG]

Stanford lost the game because of the refs. not because South Carolina is better.

Maybe and most possibly. But that hardly makes up for the non calls in the semi-final game last year when SCar was the victim in that last sequence under the basket.

 

[Charliebball]

No. If they should’ve they would’ve. You’re not gonna win many games if you let the other team go in a 22-4 run.

they did almost the same thing in their previous game with Tennessee but managed to recover in the last few minutes.......I think they had the ball and the lead with less than two minutes in the SC game but simply couldn't finish it out........

 

[eebmg]

Stanford simply could not tunnel through the SC (Quantum) Barrier

 

[Vowelguy]

 

[Carnac]

The point is not the lean/push it's the fact that Boston violated the rule by entering the vertical space of the player next to her with her arm and body before the shot was taken thereby gaining any unfair advantage under the rule and thereby making that player off balance and further making that player enter the lane.

Beyond that, Tara dropped a notch in my book. Terrible play with 24 seconds left and down 1. Tell Haley or Lexi to get the ball at the top of the key, clear everyone out with movement and let either of them drive. Shot by Brink was horrible.

Thanks for the clarification. Looking at that play, and having been in that situation many times, it didn’t look Kosher to me. Even though she got away with one, it looked like Boston played a LARGE part in Bellibi violating the lane.

In almost every situation, players will reach over and put their arm on the player next to them. If that’s a violation, it’s never called.

 

[BBallF]

Thanks for the clarification. Looking at that play, and having been in that situation many times, it didn’t look Kosher to me. Even though she got away with one, it looked like Boston played a LARGE part in Bellibi violating the lane.

Exactly, and her pre-shot position with her arm and body in Bellini's space was a violation in and of itself even if nothing else happened. The point is you don't get to pre-box out before you are allowed to box out. "But hey, it's the women, let them play." I am so aggravated with the women's officiating and their projected attitude to the rules set forth above in my mind that I could scream at times. I actually have.

 

[Carnac]

Exactly, and her pre-shot position with her arm and body in Bellini's space was a violation in and of itself even if nothing else happened. The point is you don't get to pre-box out before you are allowed to box out. "But hey, it's the women, let them play." I am so aggravated with the women's officiating and their projected attitude to the rules set forth above in my mind that I could scream at times. I actually have.

That was YOU?

 

[triaddukefan]

So much whining in this thread, thought for a minute I was on the Chapel Hill message board

 

[Mdoggie]

So much whining in this thread, thought for a minute I was on the Chapel Hill message board

Or Volnation.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

If she pushes her it is a foul. I did not see any push, she leaned in and Stanford player stepped into the lane, Boston also stepped into the lane but it was after the Stanford player committed the lane violation. I thought the refs got that one right but there were obvious fouls that were not called. SC being the most physical team benefited from the missed calls.

I tend to agree with this, but I have a bias. Although, I'm not sure it's completely obvious SC is the more physical team. They are both extremely physical teams, IMO.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I think we sympathize more with Stanford because they play a finesse style like the Huskies. If SC gets away with that Ievel of physicality, it's very hard to overcome. The only real solution is to shoot the lights out.

Stanford's cuts don't make them a finesse team.

Take a look at the screens they set and their agression on takes and their play on defensive end and tell me about finesse.

For the record, I think physical is a compliment and teams that aren't physical don't win big very often. And yes, UConn is very physical.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

I think Belibi's vertical space was violated, hence a foul on Boston. This , IMO is never called anywhere.

Right. It's routine for players to lean on each other before the ball is released.

The other weird thing is the so called numbers that Stanford had when Boston had the cramp. Take a look at where the players were again if that's how you feel about it.

 

[BBallF]

I tend to agree with this, but I have a bias. Although, I'm not sure it's completely obvious SC is the more physical team. They are both extremely physical teams, IMO.

What else do you need? The rule violation is the pre-shot invasion of the vertical space of the player next to you. Boston did it with her arm and body. You don't get to pre-box out. The rule is set forth in length above. Every referee should know it. At least 1 in 3. It was a horrible hometown call but emblematic of the poor state of women's basketball officiating.

 

[BBallF]

BTW, what is the penalty for violating the verticality rule? Is it an extra shot if the offensive team misses and the defensive team commits the violation and no shot if the offensive team makes the free throw but commits the violation? Or is it a foul and new shots?

 

[baggerbob]

South Carolina are like the Detroit Pistons in the Jordan era. One push and one shove after another. Hack city. Boston literally shoved a player 15 feet across the court on one play and didn't get called. Boston gets the Jordan treatment regularly.

Can't believe how many times Stanford made 3 pointers. When they played Texas they couldn't buy a 3. Great game overall.

Boston is a good player, but won't get those calls in the WNBA. She isn't now or ever as good as A'ja. Not sure how good she will be, hasn't shown the ability to get up and down the floor in a fast paced game.

 

[Mdoggie]

Boston is a good player, but won't get those calls in the WNBA. She isn't now or ever as good as A'ja. Not sure how good she will be, hasn't shown the ability to get up and down the floor in a fast paced game.

Yet I still wish she had decided to go to UConn. Not getting her started our downfall. We will recover and soon.

 

[JstVisiting]

Boston pushed the Stanford into the lane and refs negated the FT. Put that one away for the future -- push your opponent into the lane in close games.

Lol. Yeah. That’s what happened.

 

[sun]

I support the ref's decision.
The ref needed to decide the proximate cause for the Stanford player to step into the lane.
In this case it wasn't Boston's fault.
IMO players want to cheat by anticipating the shot and getting away with it.
The rules are there to prevent egregious violations between players, but the ref doesn't need to play the role of an activist judge to try to change the outcome of a game.
It looked like a Stanford violation because it was a Stanford violation, and the ref can't overrule the obvious by lawyering the rules as a justification to not enforce it.
The infraction was correctly enforced according to convention.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

What else do you need? The rule violation is the pre-shot invasion of the vertical space of the player next to you. Boston did it with her arm and body. You don't get to pre-box out. The rule is set forth in length above. Every referee should know it. At least 1 in 3. It was a horrible hometown call but emblematic of the poor state of women's basketball officiating.

I'd encourage you to watch any basketball game anywhere to see if this is ever called if it's in fact against the rules.

 

[cancontent]

I'd encourage you to watch any basketball game anywhere to see if this is ever called if it's in fact against the rules.

The debate about this call has had me perplexed as I never thought anything of how players position themselves with their arms when lining up for free throws.

I don't recall ever seeing anything called for that at any level of basketball that I've watched.

 

[BBallF]

I'd encourage you to watch any basketball game anywhere to see if this is ever called if it's in fact against the rules.

You are right about that but in this game it actually mattered because it led to the lane entry. They should have reviewed it and reversed it.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

You are right about that but in this game it actually mattered because it led to the lane entry. They should have reviewed it and reversed it.

You can't assess a foul on a review as far as I'm aware. And it's clear who stepped in the lane first.

It's perhaps like an out of bounds review. Often times there is a foul, but the only thing that's reviewable is who touched it last.

As I've seen players jostling for position prior to the free throw in nearly every game I've watched and as I don't recall ever seeing a foul called in that situation it would have been remarkable to see one called there.

It's a weird thing to assert changed the outcome of the game.

I dunno, Maybe focus more on blowing the 18 pt lead.

Honestly it never felt that big to me because I'd accidentally seen 47-41 as a score before starting my delayed watch.

I can understand being especially upset If it had felt like your team was up 18 for a big win and then...blew it.

I'd probably have been more excited about the comeback if it'd felt like Carolina had been down 18, but honestly it never really felt out of reach. And then it evaporated so quickly. I dunno. It was a good game.

 

[LoTrader]

WOW! What a thread. This game came down to the final seconds....South Carolina won the game on their home court. Refs did not dictate outcome of this game. Congrats to South Carolina for their comeback. Stanford may have won this game in the final seconds if the ball had been in someone else's possession other than Brink. Without the amazing Destiny Henderson who impacted the game more than any other player, Stanford wins this game going away. Dan Hurley was simply amazing. And the comment made about South Carolina being more physical and aggressive than Stanford is comical. Stanford is such a physical team (always has been). They are tough cookies, with maybe the exception of Brink. Hull sisters, Anna Wilson, Haley Jones, Fran Belibi are extremely physical players. I've watched all of them courtside multiple times. I think the most physical team I have watched this season is Texas. No surprise, Vic teaches physical toughness. In any case, great game, and I still think these are the 2 best teams right now, and both will make the Final 4.

 

[GCKSFN4L]

WOW! What a thread. This game came down to the final seconds....South Carolina won the game on their home court. Refs did not dictate outcome of this game. Congrats to South Carolina for their comeback. Stanford may have won this game in the final seconds if the ball had been in someone else's possession other than Brink. Without the amazing Destiny Henderson who impacted the game more than any other player, Stanford wins this game going away. Dan Hurley was simply amazing. And the comment made about South Carolina being more physical and aggressive than Stanford is comical. Stanford is such a physical team (always has been). They are tough cookies, with maybe the exception of Brink. Hull sisters, Anna Wilson, Haley Jones, Fran Belibi are extremely physical players. I've watched all of them courtside multiple times. I think the most physical team I have watched this season is Texas. No surprise, Vic teaches physical toughness. In any case, great game, and I still think these are the 2 best teams right now, and both will make the Final 4.

Thank you, I thought I was in opposite world. I was like are people watch the same game. I honestly believe they out physical us in the Final Four and that is why they won the national title.

 

[BBallF]

You can't assess a foul on a review as far as I'm aware. And it's clear who stepped in the lane first.

It's perhaps like an out of bounds review. Often times there is a foul, but the only thing that's reviewable is who touched it last.

As I've seen players jostling for position prior to the free throw in nearly every game I've watched and as I don't recall ever seeing a foul called in that situation it would have been remarkable to see one called there.

It's a weird thing to assert changed the outcome of the game.

I dunno, Maybe focus more on blowing the 18 pt lead.

Honestly it never felt that big to me because I'd accidentally seen 47-41 as a score before starting my delayed watch.

I can understand being especially upset If it had felt like your team was down 18.

I'd probably have been more excited if it'd felt like Carolina had been down 18, but honestly it never really felt out of reach. And then it evaporated so quickly. I dunno. It was a good game.

That is not the issue here. There is a violation of the rule of verticality not a foul and the free throw should not have been negated. If I deliberately push you into the lane( I'm just going to an extreme here to make a point) it's not your lane violation. You can look at it a 100 times, Boston caused her to enter the lane. The refs didn't see that and didn't review it. I blame Tara for that. I'm not a Stanford fan, I'm a UCONN fan, but I hate bad refereeing in the women's game which is the norm not the exception. It's part of the lingering inequality in the sport and needs to be addressed by the NCAA now as the women's game is becoming mainstream at an exponential rate.

 

[jonson]

WOW! What a thread. This game came down to the final seconds....South Carolina won the game on their home court. Refs did not dictate outcome of this game. Congrats to South Carolina for their comeback. Stanford may have won this game in the final seconds if the ball had been in someone else's possession other than Brink. Without the amazing Destiny Henderson who impacted the game more than any other player, Stanford wins this game going away. Dan Hurley was simply amazing. And the comment made about South Carolina being more physical and aggressive than Stanford is comical. Stanford is such a physical team (always has been). They are tough cookies, with maybe the exception of Brink. Hull sisters, Anna Wilson, Haley Jones, Fran Belibi are extremely physical players. I've watched all of them courtside multiple times. I think the most physical team I have watched this season is Texas. No surprise, Vic teaches physical toughness. In any case, great game, and I still think these are the 2 best teams right now, and both will make the Final 4.

I think that Brink is in fact quite physical; she's just paper thin and that can be an issue against someone like Boston. She also needs to know when/how not to foul.

That said, I think the key issues (for Stanford) are on the offensive side, since they are always tough defensively. And that has been a concern for several years now.

First, they don't have the point guard(s)/distributor(s) they need. Wilson doesn't seem to fit the bill; neither do either of the Hulls (or Jones). Against many teams this doesn't matter since the overall talent on the team can carry the day. But it did Tuesday and will again (I suspect) down the road.

Second, the team needs an aggressive--and consistent/dependable--scorer. Jones is the obvious candidate here, but, as others have pointed out, she's only the player you expect her to be once in a while, and I don't think she has improved much since her freshman season. (Tara is a great coach but I don't think player development is one of her strengths.) Lexie Hull tries to be that, but she can be lights out one (or part of one) half (the first, Tuesday) and then start missing badly, since her shot selection at times leaves a lot to be desired. With a roster as deep as this one, Tara can plug and play and sometimes find someone who is hot (Prechtel in last seasons championship game, for instance), but that's obviously less than ideal. In my view, both cost the Cardinal dearly on Tuesday.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

WOW! What a thread. This game came down to the final seconds....South Carolina won the game on their home court. Refs did not dictate outcome of this game. Congrats to South Carolina for their comeback. Stanford may have won this game in the final seconds if the ball had been in someone else's possession other than Brink. Without the amazing Destiny Henderson who impacted the game more than any other player, Stanford wins this game going away. Dan Hurley was simply amazing. And the comment made about South Carolina being more physical and aggressive than Stanford is comical. Stanford is such a physical team (always has been). They are tough cookies, with maybe the exception of Brink. Hull sisters, Anna Wilson, Haley Jones, Fran Belibi are extremely physical players. I've watched all of them courtside multiple times. I think the most physical team I have watched this season is Texas. No surprise, Vic teaches physical toughness. In any case, great game, and I still think these are the 2 best teams right now, and both will make the Final 4.

I think physical is a compliment, but it's rarely intended that way by fans.

Usually is a compliment from coaches though.

Every coach would prefer a physical team. The opposite isn't finesse, it's soft.

 

[Gamecockfan77]

That is not the issue here. There is a violation of the rule of verticality not a foul and the free throw should not have been negated. If I deliberately push you into the lane( I'm just going to an extreme here to make a point) it's not your lane violation. You can look at it a 100 times, Boston caused her to enter the lane. The refs didn't see that and didn't review it. I blame Tara for that. I'm not a Stanford fan, I'm a UCONN fan, but I hate bad refereeing in the women's game which is the norm not the exception. It's part of the lingering inequality in the sport and needs to be addressed by the NCAA now as the women's game is becoming mainstream at an exponential rate.

There is no difference in the way this issue is officiated between the sports.

Players jostle prior to the free throw being released in both sports and it's never a violation or a foul. I've never seen an instance where a lane violation was negated because of a verticality violation in 40+ years of watching college and professional basketball. At least that I can recall.

I kind of wish I'd seen it for the first time in this game, so then we wouldn't have to pretend like this might have impacted the result.

 

[BBallF]

There is no difference in the way this issue is officiated between the sports.

Players jostle prior to the free throw being released in both sports and it's never a violation or a foul. I've never seen an instance where a lane violation was negated because of a verticality violation in 40+ years of watching college and professional basketball. At least that I can recall.

I kind of wish I'd seen it for the first time in this game, so then we wouldn't have to pretend like this might have impacted the result.

Actually if you watch higher level men's games, like the 2021 NC game, which I just did, you will see that no one even comes close to the flagrant violation of the rule that Boston committed. In fact, the free throws I saw preserved the principle of verticality until the shot was released. I also rewatched the 2013 women's NC game between UCONN and Louisville randomly for the same reason and lo and behold no violations. I don't subscribe to the "everyone does it and they don't call it so let's do it" rule in sports. The reason it's not called is because it is rarely done blatantly, not prolifically like you state. Sorry, we just disagree. The rule was violated by Boston. Was it outcome determinative? More likely not but not impossibly. I personally have never seen such a flagrant violation of that rule in the women's game before and I suspect it will just continue until some ref has the nerve to follow the rule book.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

You know your team has made it when everyone is dreaming up excuses for why they lost to a better team.