St John's Postgame Thread | Page 4 | The Boneyard

St John's Postgame Thread

EricLA said:
It was a meh game. UCONN's problem, IMHO, is that their inconsistency often lasts an entire quarter. Against USC, we got down big early, had to mount a mammoth comeback, but ultimately fell short. Against any top 10 team, that won't cut it, and efforts like we saw against SJU last night might well result in bowing out in the NCAA's in the sweet 16.

Honestly, I get that people want to be positive about the effort, players, etc., but we still need to be realistic. AT THIS TIME IMHO, this team MIGHT make the elite 8. It would depend on the matchup. But there is no way this team (as it's constructed and playing right now), makes the final 4.

There were some really good things in the game. I think KK continues to show spark, fire, and energy, and if she can consistently make 3's (like 33%, not 8%), she will be a major weapon. I think Jana continues to improve, and she's better than Ice by a fair bit at this time. Ash is solid and you know you are going to get major effort from her. Morgan is solid and the first "post" off the bench now (ahead of Ice, shockingly).

And you know that Sarah, Paige, and Azzi can all go off at any given time. One "meh" game from all of them doesn't concern me.

On the flip side - our half court offense is weak. If we aren't forcing TO's off our defense, we struggle in the half court. Cait seems not to have improved at all this season. I was NOT expecting her skills to improve, but I WAS expecting her chemistry with the team to improve. She still gets caught too often in no man's land with the ball, and honestly, I like KK at the 1 better than Cait at this time. Also this team gives up way too many open 3's and we often get lucky if the other team misses.

Don't know what's going on with Ice, but something ain't right with her. The fact that she's behind Morgan on the depth chart for the 5/4 position is troubling. And Q - she's an adventure out there and really seems no better than last season.

Let's be honest. Give SJU all the credit in the world for "in your face defense", but they are just not as good as the other elite teams out there and if we struggle against them, imagine what it will like against a much better team. We went thru a 5 minute stretch scoring 1 point. I get playing the subs and giving them scratch to get experience in games, but even some of our poor stretches include most of the starters on the floor.

Bottom line is that this team not only hasn't managed to put together a 40 minute performance, generally they put together about 20-25 +/- really good minutes a game. The rest is average. I get that he's tinkering with the roster, and there is still room for growth, but to pretend everything is great is just people wearing blue blinders...
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There are some good realistic points you have made. The team core is just evolving. The first period of the St John' s game was a hopeful view of the future. WOW! This was balanced with Geno continuing to view his bench with solid minutes of court time in subsequent periods.
He needs 8 solid players three with offensive skills and two others producing 8-10 points a game in longer minutes. As properly pointed out, our half-court game needs a boost against the top teams and teams that play a slow clock. The double high post on offense seems to offer the most potential for setting picks and pick and rolls. Hope we see more of that with the three jump shooting guards in the mix. This type of offensive could also produce more foul shoot opportunities than hunting three-point shots. A quick pace of play is much to our advantage but needs impressive defensive rebounding from Sarah and El Alfy.
 
Dugway said:
I think the concern folks have with eleven-point quarters, is that if a Big East caliber opponent is capable of holding us to only 11-points, is it not possible that a supremely talented defensive team could also hold us to that same 11-point quarter? And possible they do it two, three or even four times in a game?
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What we’ve learned is that Big East teams can hold the end of UConn’s bench to 11 points in a quarter. Woo
Dugway said:
Is it possible that we will run into some supremely talented defensive team during the tournament?
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How much do you think the end of the bench will play against supremely talented defensive teams? How many of those teams are there, anyway?
 

EricLA said:
It was a meh game. UCONN's problem, IMHO, is that their inconsistency often lasts an entire quarter. Against USC, we got down big early, had to mount a mammoth comeback, but ultimately fell short. Against any top 10 team, that won't cut it, and efforts like we saw against SJU last night might well result in bowing out in the NCAA's in the sweet 16.
:eek:
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I'm surprised at your thoughts, as you are one of the most knowledgable posters here.:)

The team that plays the round of 16 thru our last game will as usual be reduced to 6-8 players, and will play hard for 40 minutes. That team barring injury will be the best team we have fielded since Collier/KLS, and clear best of Paige era.

It has little to do with how we play against St Johns in January.

I would at least wait til TN/SC games (even better til Big East tourney) before composing a eulogy. :eek:
 
I appreciated how hard the team worked to make mid-range & inside shots.
They also worked hard to draw fouls.
Even Q attempted to make an inside shot near the end of the game while she was way off balance.
But at least she was trying to draw a foul in the process.
I don't think that folks are appreciative enough of the amount of aggressiveness shown regarding attacking the basket that the team is showing now.
Since the team has been inconsistent shooting 3's, taking more mid-range & inside shots signals an improvement.

Playing a tight press defense involves a lot of technicalities that end up getting reflected in the final score.
There are mistakes happening that aren't being called and the games are more rough & tumble due to playing at high speed.
Of course playing a tough defense creates some additional burdens for the offense.

Folks are so concerned about winning #12 that they don't have the patience to see what it really takes to get there.
It's a slow painful process.
Whether they win #12 or not is secondary to learning how to play the game the best that they can while making as few errors as possible.
Just have patience & appreciate whatever growth that they can accomplish as a team.
The progress of each of the UConn players has been pretty good.
They all have some swagger & soring 2 points is better than missing a 3 pointer.
Azzi, Jana, KK and the rest seemed to be working really hard in this game.
Missing 2 three point baskets from UConn's final score isn't a big deal considering how much more they all attacked the basket in this game.
I'm admire the team more than I admire Meg Culmo trash talking about their effort.
Plus Paige just made her way back onto the court.
 
EricLA said:
It was a meh game. UCONN's problem, IMHO, is that their inconsistency often lasts an entire quarter. Against USC, we got down big early, had to mount a mammoth comeback, but ultimately fell short. Against any top 10 team, that won't cut it, and efforts like we saw against SJU last night might well result in bowing out in the NCAA's in the sweet 16.

Honestly, I get that people want to be positive about the effort, players, etc., but we still need to be realistic. AT THIS TIME IMHO, this team MIGHT make the elite 8. It would depend on the matchup. But there is no way this team (as it's constructed and playing right now), makes the final 4.

There were some really good things in the game. I think KK continues to show spark, fire, and energy, and if she can consistently make 3's (like 33%, not 8%), she will be a major weapon. I think Jana continues to improve, and she's better than Ice by a fair bit at this time. Ash is solid and you know you are going to get major effort from her. Morgan is solid and the first "post" off the bench now (ahead of Ice, shockingly).

And you know that Sarah, Paige, and Azzi can all go off at any given time. One "meh" game from all of them doesn't concern me.

On the flip side - our half court offense is weak. If we aren't forcing TO's off our defense, we struggle in the half court. Cait seems not to have improved at all this season. I was NOT expecting her skills to improve, but I WAS expecting her chemistry with the team to improve. She still gets caught too often in no man's land with the ball, and honestly, I like KK at the 1 better than Cait at this time. Also this team gives up way too many open 3's and we often get lucky if the other team misses.

Don't know what's going on with Ice, but something ain't right with her. The fact that she's behind Morgan on the depth chart for the 5/4 position is troubling. And Q - she's an adventure out there and really seems no better than last season.

Let's be honest. Give SJU all the credit in the world for "in your face defense", but they are just not as good as the other elite teams out there and if we struggle against them, imagine what it will like against a much better team. We went thru a 5 minute stretch scoring 1 point. I get playing the subs and giving them scratch to get experience in games, but even some of our poor stretches include most of the starters on the floor.

Bottom line is that this team not only hasn't managed to put together a 40 minute performance, generally they put together about 20-25 +/- really good minutes a game. The rest is average. I get that he's tinkering with the roster, and there is still room for growth, but to pretend everything is great is just people wearing blue blinders...
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A couple of comments on your comments: First, the SJU defense is probably no more or no less stalwart than the other top Big East teams and the 2nd quarter (11 points} was solely due to poor shot selection, poor execution and no energy. In review, I noted that many of the missed shots were short, resulting in a lack of offensive rebounding opportunities. Second, I was on KK's bandwagon for starting at PG instead of Kaitlyn, but I fell off after this game, as she showed a lack of discipline and, like most of the team, was out of sync on offense. Only 9 points from the PG position is unacceptable.
 
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packwrap said:
That team barring injury will be the best team we have fielded since Collier/KLS, and clear best of Paige era.
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People loved Aaliyah when she was here. 9 months later she's chopped liver. Ditto Muhl. They have left gaping holes, esp AE, that have not been filled. Yet.

Right now, I'd say last year's team was a little better. But there's a lot of time and healing left.
 
Vowelguy said:
People loved Aaliyah when she was here. 9 months later she's chopped liver. Ditto Muhl. They have left gaping holes, esp AE, that have not been filled. Yet.

Right now, I'd say last year's team was a little better. But there's a lot of time and healing left.
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I feel like I must have a vision problem.

Last year we only played 6 vs Iowa! Freshmen Ash, KK and Ice, along with Paige, Aaliyah, and Nika.

Now 4 of those 6 are back one year better, and we add Azzi, Sarah, Chen, Morgan and Jana, soon Aubrey.

Sarah covers for Aaliyah and KK/Chen/Morgan/Aubrey covers for Nika.

Sarah is more versatile than Aaliyah, and Nika was a reluctant scorer that teams often chose not to guard.

It was a beautiful miracle we made final 4 last year, just on depth this team is better.

Lastly, everyone but Paige from last years team, currently comes off the bench.:confused:
 
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Vowelguy said:
People loved Aaliyah when she was here. 9 months later she's chopped liver. Ditto Muhl. They have left gaping holes, esp AE, that have not been filled. Yet.

Right now, I'd say last year's team was a little better. But there's a lot of time and healing left.
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It’s an interesting thought. I mean, mostly folks talk about the current team in terms of potential, not right now. I think it’s clear that the team that lost to Iowa in the Final Four was a little better than this team is right now. Nika and Aaliyah have left holes that haven’t been filled, yet.

The oddity in this thought experiment is that Sarah and KK and Ash as they are right now are not exactly accounted for on last year’s Final Four team. And there are other questions to ask.

Is Sarah a sufficient replacement for Aaliyah?
Is Ash right now a more effective player?
And KK?
Is Kaitlyn enough to balance the loss of Nika?
And what on earth do we think Jana and Ice can give us against a team like SC?

Most importantly, Paige may or not be playing with quite the same confidence as last season. One sign of this is the number of free throws attempted — last season she had 163 FTA compared to this season in which she has 43 FTA halfway through, or roughly half. Last season she seemed to risk more on every drive than this season. Is Paige 4.0 simply equivalent to Paige 3.0 or maybe better because wiser? Or worse because slightly more cautious?

And the hardest maybe to assess, because we lack any objective measure — what does Azzi bring to this team? No one on last season’s team adds up to what she might become, and we have no idea what to expect from her. A sign is that she’s either the greatest thing since sliced bread for most of us, or she’s utterly unreliable due to the likelihood of injury.

As for me, the eternal optimist, I’d say that we are definitely not yet as good as last year’s team was by the Final Four. Aaliyah and Paige were peaking and Nika was bringing the knuckles on defense, and Ash and KK were on an upward trajectory. This season, Sarah may well be better already than Aaliyah ever was at UConn, though this is really hard to judge. Some of Aaliyah’s muscle may need to be supplied by Jana and Ice to cover her absence. However, we could be potentially significantly better than last year’s team by tournament time.
 
HuskyNan said:
What we’ve learned is that Big East teams can hold the end of UConn’s bench to 11 points in a quarter. Woo
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Who is your definition of our "End of the Bench"? Because in yesterday's 11-point second quarter, Qadance and Allie had a combined playing time of exactly Zero Minutes and Zero Seconds. Your argument that we have not score more than eleven, simply because our 'end of the bench' is out there playing, doesn't pass water.

HuskyNan said:
How much do you think the end of the bench will play against supremely talented defensive teams? How many of those teams are there, anyway?
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I would be surprised to see Qadance and Allie receive all that much more of playing time against South Carolina, then they received in yesterday's second quarter. It will almost certainly be Paige, Sarah, Azzi, KK, Kaitlyn, Jana, Ashlynn, and Morgan, all of which played the vast majority of yesterday's 11-point second quarter. Those are not our end of the bench players; those are our starters, plus the first three rotational players we have going. Fifty combined minutes, eleven combined points. Woo.

As for how many of those supremely talented defensive teams exist out there. All it takes is one! A few years ago, we ran up against Ohio State; they sent us packing in the Sweet-16. You are kidding yourself if you think we are not going to line up against somebody pretty stiff along the way.
 
Bone Dog said:
As for me, the eternal optimist, I’d say that we are definitely not yet as good as last year’s team was by the Final Four. Aaliyah and Paige were peaking and Nika was bringing the knuckles on defense, and Ash and KK were on an upward trajectory. This season, Sarah may well be better already than Aaliyah ever was at UConn, though this is really hard to judge. Some of Aaliyah’s muscle may need to be supplied by Jana and Ice to cover her absence. However, we could be potentially significantly better than last year’s team by tournament time.
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You really think Paige, KK, Ice and Ash have regressed?

As often pointed out here matchups in tourney are important. Despite being a #2 seed we drew Duke, USC and Iowa. Duke and USC were a bit ahead of their time, and like UConn, Iowa was a small finesse team. We would have only faced a big, fast muscular team had we faced SC in the final.

Hopefully, we get a nice draw this year too.
 
rt bb fan said:
The big 3 did not play in the 4th quarter hence the low scoring stats.
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EXACTLY! With the "starting line-up" in the first quarter the
Huskies scored 25 points. IMHO, both head coaches saw the
writing on the wall and the game was then played like a
practice scrimmage. See Geno's comments in the post
game presser about going for 100 points in this game (his
comments begin after (approximately) the 16-minute mark.
 
Zarathustra said:
Very nice clarifying comments from Geno after about
the 16th minute of this Post Game Presser. EG... not
having to score 100 points, getting time for the "Subs"
and that, when he does that, it will LOOK "bad", and finally his short term and
long term thoughts on JANA.... If you did not watch the
whole "presser", try watching it and starting it at about minute 16.
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I rewatch the link of GENO's Post Game presser. His comment
" 100 (points) serves no purpose" is after the 18:00 minute mark.
After the 19:00 minute mark Geno discusses Jana's progress and
future development.
 
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packwrap said:
You really think Paige, KK, Ice and Ash have regressed?
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I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that. If you think it, fair enough. Don’t fob it off on me.

I happen to think Ash is definitely ahead of her trajectory from last season. KK, too. I don’t know what to say about Ice yet. The Ice of the BE tournament last season played with more confidence than Ice has of late.

I offered a couple options for assessing Paige. FTAs suggest a less aggressive player, but it may also mean a wiser player. Which way would you prefer to interpret this data point?
 
I find it interesting that the last couple of seasons posters have been complaining about Geno playing his starters too many minutes. They won't have anything left come tournament time. Of course we know that's wrong. We made the final foiur last year with 7 or 8 players.

Now Geno starts subbing in the 1st quarter. He is playing his bench every game. The starters are playing around 20 - 25 minutes a game instead of 30 - 35. And the team is not racking up 80 to 90 points a game.

Geno is developing his very talented young players. Still complaints about the offense doesn't flow like it should are frequent. How many complaints have there been over the last few seasons that so and so is never going to get better if they don't get playing time in an actual game.

Geno has over 40 years of coaching experience. His track record speaks for itself. As Uconn approaches the SC and Tennessee games, Geno will shorten his rotation to 8 or 9.

You can't have both ways on these issues. Either Geno plays the staters 30 - 35 minutes to develop the chemistry or he subs in and gives the younger players valuable game experience.
 
I just listened to the post-game press conference, and I see that Geno actually commented (without being asked) about Jana's strange way of handling the opening tipoff of each of the last (at least) three games, going back to Xavier. In all three of these games, Jana has easily outjumped her opponent, but she always tips the ball forward, where there are no UConn teammates. As a result, the opponents in each game have controlled the opening tip.

In his post-game comments, Geno said that "my Arabic isn't good enough" to communicate to Jana that he wants her to tip the ball sideways or backwards to where her teammates are positioned, so that they have some chance of grabbing the ball. Instead, she is doing "a volleyball slam" to send the ball forward "over the net" -- never mind that that is where her opponents are lurking.

It is odd (and surprising) that Jana never encountered this simple concept previously. I guess it shows that the language barrier (or the force of her established habits) overcomes the common-sense instinct to try to tip the ball to your teammates. Hopefully this will change in the upcoming games.
 
UConn beat Iowa St. by the score of 101 - 68.
UConn beat St. John's by the score of 71 - 45.

By the scores, it would appear that UConn had a better game against Iowa St. than against St. John's.
But that's not true.

Iowa St. scored 67.32% of UConn's point total.
St. John's scored 63.38% of UConn's point total.

That's despite the fact that UConn shot 32% from 3 against Iowa St., yet only shot 28.6% from 3 against St. John's.

Also, Paige, Sarah & Shade played more minutes aganst Iowa St. scoring 27, 29 & 27 points respectively.

This shows how people are complaining that UConn didn't score more points when the team actually had a better win against St. John's than agaiinst Iowa St. when the team scored 101 points.
UConn's victory over St. John's was better & greater than over Iowa St. despite the complaints about UConn not scoring enough points & playing a bad quarter.
It's simply false compared to how well UConn played against Iowa St..
 
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Bone Dog said:
I’m pretty sure I didn’t say that. If you think it, fair enough. Don’t fob it off on me.

I happen to think Ash is definitely ahead of her trajectory from last season. KK, too. I don’t know what to say about Ice yet. The Ice of the BE tournament last season played with more confidence than Ice has of late.

I offered a couple options for assessing Paige. FTAs suggest a less aggressive player, but it may also mean a wiser player. Which way would you prefer to interpret this data point?
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Sorry I was asking you for clarification, because I wasn't sure exactly what you meant in your post, Paige 4.0 v 3.0 etc. I just read it again and I guess you are asking the question if they are all better this year.

On that ? I think they are all better this year. KK and Ash has to get used to coming from bench, Ice moved from forward to center, and Paige moved back to shooting guard from power forward. It's hard to improve from national player of the year and first team All-American, but Paige stronger, smarter, better leader now. Ice now playing behind Jana, but had Jana not been hurt, she would have had to deal with that last year.

Free throws down for Paige. She's playing less minutes, and taking less shots, so that's part of it. She was also power forward last year, so battling in the paint more. Maybe I can find a shot chart for her to she if she takes more jump shots this year. I don't think it has to do with confidence or ability.
 
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