Sopranos not hold up?

[Kolumbo]

If you're enjoying the series, watch to the end before you make up your mind. Almost three seasons isn't enough. I don't know how you can call it "POV malarkey". The shots and sets and direction are deliberate decisions made by the people running the show. That stuff doesn't happen by accident or coincidence. You can not like the choices, you can think its a lousy way to tell a story, but you can't hand wave it away because it doesn't make sense to you.

I gotcha, but those deliberate decisions are just opinion and theory. I am sure my view will change by the end of season 6. But when they say "POV," it's not really POV. For example, when Carmela enters the restaurant, she supposedly looks to see Tony, but she's not looking at the camera, so it can't be Tony's POV. And the shots are usually too close to be Tony's POV. Don't you agree that Tony saw Meadow walk in the door, and why didn't we see her? Tony was far too successful a boss to be taken out with one bullet by such a careless hit man.

Note: We never see AJ take his jacket off. He's settled in at the table wearing his jacket, then suddenly it's off. And just as Tony watches MOG walk into the pishadu, two gentlemen walk in to peruse the pastry. That is the key right there.

 

[JCSuperstar]

I gotcha, but those deliberate decisions are just opinion and theory. I am sure my view will change by the end of season 6. But when they say "POV," it's not really POV. For example, when Carmela enters the restaurant, she supposedly looks to see Tony, but she's not looking at the camera, so it can't be Tony's POV.

This is the Carmela POV shot straight from the link:

I don't know how you see that and think "Can't be his POV". I don't think you need to see the top of the booth in front of you to know that this is what Tony is looking at.

And the shots are usually too close to be Tony's POV. Don't you agree that Tony saw Meadow walk in the door, and why didn't we see her?

...because he was dead, you don't see anything when you're dead.

Tony was far too successful a boss to be taken out with one bullet by such a careless hit man.

Except lots of people died that way, and they spent lots of time foreshadowing by talking about it and showing it. Tony and Bobby on the boat, Silvio's dinner, Phil's death, Bobby's death....all in that same season, all all unaware, all never saw it coming. They even spent time showing you how Tony was not paying attention to things behind him in the scene immediately preceding the diner (and they used the same POV process)

Note: We never see AJ take his jacket off. He's settled in at the table wearing his jacket, then suddenly it's off.

So while they cut to Meadow parking, AJ took his jacket off. I'm missing you here, how does this affect the theory that Tony was killed?
The Sopranos Final Scene

And just as Tony watches MOG walk into the pishadu, two gentlemen walk in to peruse the pastry. That is the key right there.

Again, I'm not following. The show MOG walk past Tony to establish that he has a clear shot of Tony from behind as he exits the bathroom. Moments pass, Tony doesn't look at the bathroom again, or check behind him or anything like that. The bell rings, Tony looks up at the door again, instead of seeing Meadow they hard cut to black.

 

[temery]

Stupid question: When someone bets a "dime" on Sopranos ... is that $1k?

 

[Husky25]

It holds up better than The Wire. They both hold up pretty well if you consider them both period pieces. AJ working at Blockbuster cracks me up.

 

[Kolumbo]

This is the Carmela POV shot straight from the link:

I don't know how you see that and think "Can't be his POV". I don't think you need to see the top of the booth in front of you to know that this is what Tony is looking at.



...because he was dead, you don't see anything when you're dead.


Except lots of people died that way, and they spent lots of time foreshadowing by talking about it and showing it. Tony and Bobby on the boat, Silvio's dinner, Phil's death, Bobby's death....all in that same season, all all unaware, all never saw it coming. They even spent time showing you how Tony was not paying attention to things behind him in the scene immediately preceding the diner (and they used the same POV process)




So while they cut to Meadow parking, AJ took his jacket off. I'm missing you here, how does this affect the theory that Tony was killed?
The Sopranos Final Scene


Again, I'm not following. The show MOG walk past Tony to establish that he has a clear shot of Tony from behind as he exits the bathroom. Moments pass, Tony doesn't look at the bathroom again, or check behind him or anything like that. The bell rings, Tony looks up at the door again, instead of seeing Meadow they hard cut to black.

Tony looks up for a good second or so so he must have seen Meadow. We should have seen Meadow. But you did an excellent job of summarizing the obvious theories floating around out there. Perhaps too obvious. You don't understand the AJ Jacket theory? Chase goes out of his way to make things crystal clear to us, yet we are to assume AJ happens to take his jacket off while off camera? That's Bovine Spartacus!

Don't get me wrong, I love this show. All due respect, I enjoy it more as a comedy than a drama, which makes the Seinfeld mash spot on. More "Scary Movie" than "Scream."

I'm watching the entire series rapid fire so it's a different experience than watching it over 6 seasons. Rapid fire, it's a little too repetitive. Tony is an ignorant, selfish prock whose entire schtick is throwing an endless series of temper tantrums. Surprised he didn't get whacked by season three. They should come out with a sequal showing Tony given the Beansie treatment drinking his Buca through a straw.

Kelli Aprile: "I gotta paint a picture? He was killed by a fat Spartacus in see-through socks."

 

[traitor71]

This thread has inspired me to start re watching the series. It took all of a handful of episodes to remind me of how much I hated Tony's mom. Good lord I can't stand her.

 

[Kolumbo]

Halfway through season 5. Question: Did The Sopranos ever jump the shark? If so, at what point? If not, did it come close?
I'm thinking a few situations:
The introduction of Tony B., Feech, and Phil. Just seemed like a situation where they introduced a few characters to jump start something. Feech was freaking awesome.
Tony moving out of the house. He's the Boss for pete's sake. He can't move out.
Carmella sinning with AJ's guidance counselor is a big reach. I mean, she knows the deal and Tony is the freaking Boss Marone.

 

[temery]

Halfway through season 5. Question: Did The Sopranos ever jump the shark? If so, at what point? If not, did it come close?
I'm thinking a few situations:
The introduction of Tony B., Feech, and Phil. Just seemed like a situation where they introduced a few characters to jump start something. Feech was freaking awesome.
Tony moving out of the house. He's the Boss for pete's sake. He can't move out.
Carmella sinning with AJ's guidance counselor is a big reach. I mean, she knows the deal and Tony is the freaking Boss Marone.

That was about the point when I noticed much of the show felt rushed. Sorry, can't think of s better word.

 

[temery]

This thread has inspired me to start re watching the series. It took all of a handful of episodes to remind me of how much I hated Tony's mom. Good lord I can't stand her.

I loved the show, but hoped Tony at least once would get his ass kicked when he went off on one of his temper tamtrums. Maybe he has a bit of road rage and a civilian 1/2 his size leaves him in a bloody messing lying on the curb with people just staring.

 

[B1GEast]

The Pine Barren's episode is probably one of the most funny Sopranos episodes ever.

 

[temery]

The Pine Barton's episode is probably one of the most funny Sopranos episodes ever.

"You're not going to believe this, the guy killed 16 czechoslovakians and he's an interior decorator!"

"His house was kind of a mess."


“Just two lost in the woods”: Why ‘Pine Barrens’ is unquestionably The Sopranos’ best episode

 

[Kolumbo]

The Pine Barton's episode is probably one of the most funny Sopranos episodes ever.

That was classic. Although the Russian could have easily finished off both Chris and Paulie, with the shovel, instead of running. He's an interior decorator!

 

[B1GEast]

Hey! Go piss on your own side!

 

[temery]

Hey! Go piss on your own side!

The character development in that show was beyond incredible. Most of the characters came across as complete fools who just happened to be perfect for their job.

I'm trying to think of even one made guy who wasn't a fool. Maybe Patsy/Philly.

EDIT: Furio.

 

[Husky25]

The character development in that show was beyond incredible. Most of the characters came across as complete fools who just happened to be perfect for their job.

I'm trying to think of even one made guy who wasn't a fool. Maybe Patsy/Philly.

EDIT: Furio.

Furio was a fool for lusting after the Boss's wife.

 

[temery]

Furio was a fool for lusting after the Boss's wife.

He should have pushed Tony into the chopper blades.

 

[Kolumbo]

Furio was a fool for lusting after the Boss's wife.

Furio was smart enough to leave the country before he listened to his braciole. Furio should have been on the show longer.

 

[B1GEast]

Silvio never seemed to be foolish, although it's been a while since I've seen any episodes

 

[superjohn]

Silvio never seemed to be foolish, although it's been a while since I've seen any episodes

Paulie Walnuts was the funniest guy on the show but Sil was underrated in that deparment and had some classic moments.
Watch "The Sopranos: Sil in Christopher's Intervention" on YouTube

 

[Kolumbo]

17 bombs in this short clip.

 

[August_West]

loved the show, but hoped Tony at least once would get his ass kicked when he went off on one of his temper tamtrums

Bobby kicked his ass in Sopranos home movies.

 

[Kolumbo]

Bobby kicked his ass in Sopranos home movies.

watching episode 78. that beatin' was the best scene of the series so far. the green hotel flick. classic.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

watching episode 78. that beatin' was the best scene of the series so far. the green hotel flick. classic.

Those two idiots stumbling at each other rates second only to Chris' intervention in terms of twisted comedy.

 

[Kolumbo]

Those two idiots stumbling at each other rates second only to Chris' intervention in terms of twisted comedy.

I forgot. The intervention scene was pure gold. "Now what was it barkin'?" "I said my piece Chrissy." "F dat. Let him take his medicine."

Baccala got some great shots in though. To see Tony take his medicine was satisfying.

 

[Kolumbo]

Just finished watching the entire series, took me about a month. Great series, but the final episodes were disappointing. I agree with some that it all seemed rushed, like they were trying to wrap it up somehow, and AJ was just a disaster, he was all over the place. The stuff T was going through, the last scene just made no sense to me. One sit down and he totally lets his guard down, even after learning someone flipped. It seemed like some writer had to meet his deadline and was not prepared at all.

 

[Kolumbo]

 

[Rico444]

Yeah I'm bumping this 10 month old thread because I just finished the series. I thought it was great, but didn't like the ending.

Chase was ambiguous throughout the entire series. He loved leaving the audience with questions that couldn't definitively be answered. He also loved building tension to the point where you just felt like you were going to explode, then letting the air out of the balloon. How many times did it seem like we were going to get a real, balls-to-the-wall war with New York? Every single time they would call a truce and everything was back to normal. When Junior/Livia tried to have Tony killed, it seemed like there would be another war there. Again, turned into nothing. My guess is Tony didn't die in that diner, but Chase probably doesn't even feel strongly either way. He just wanted to make it ambiguous, make it so people on both sides could argue that they were right but not definitively be correct. If he wanted people to know that Tony died, he would've showed Tony dying, or put shown something that gives you a clue he's in danger. I'm not talking about a random dude that keeps looking at Tony. If they had showed Member's Only Guy coming out of the bathroom with a gun in his hand, THEN that final shot the same way, then I would believe Tony is dead.

Honestly it's a little bit of a cop out in my opinion; Chase knew the power of killing Tony and what statement he would've been making (crime doesn't pay! Stay in school kids!) and didn't want to do that. If he wanted Tony to survive, but just show the audience that he has to live with paranoia every minute of every day for the rest of his life, he could've shown MOG come out of the bathroom and walk by Tony's table and make eye contact, then just walk harmlessly by. Chase obviously didn't want to do that, either. I just wish he would've made a decision and played it out.

Funny enough,

Spoiler: MAJOR Fargo season 3 spoilers

I loved the ending of season 3 of Fargo, which is every bit as ambiguous. I think it's because that was more a statement on power and its role in the justice system. Varga had the juice to wiggle his way out of that holding cell, but obviously you need a lot of juice to avoid charges from the federal government. So the ambiguity works better there because it didn't matter which way it turned out; only that both possible endings were equally plausible. The Sopranos' ending just seemed like ambiguity for ambiguity's sake.

 

[Mano]

Yeah I'm bumping this 10 month old thread because I just finished the series. I thought it was great, but didn't like the ending.

Chase was ambiguous throughout the entire series. He loved leaving the audience with questions that couldn't definitively be answered. He also loved building tension to the point where you just felt like you were going to explode, then letting the air out of the balloon. How many times did it seem like we were going to get a real, balls-to-the-wall war with New York? Every single time they would call a truce and everything was back to normal. When Junior/Livia tried to have Tony killed, it seemed like there would be another war there. Again, turned into nothing. My guess is Tony didn't die in that diner, but Chase probably doesn't even feel strongly either way. He just wanted to make it ambiguous, make it so people on both sides could argue that they were right but not definitively be correct. If he wanted people to know that Tony died, he would've showed Tony dying, or put shown something that gives you a clue he's in danger. I'm not talking about a random dude that keeps looking at Tony. If they had showed Member's Only Guy coming out of the bathroom with a gun in his hand, THEN that final shot the same way, then I would believe Tony is dead.

Honestly it's a little bit of a cop out in my opinion; Chase knew the power of killing Tony and what statement he would've been making (crime doesn't pay! Stay in school kids!) and didn't want to do that. If he wanted Tony to survive, but just show the audience that he has to live with paranoia every minute of every day for the rest of his life, he could've shown MOG come out of the bathroom and walk by Tony's table and make eye contact, then just walk harmlessly by. Chase obviously didn't want to do that, either. I just wish he would've made a decision and played it out.

Funny enough,

Spoiler: MAJOR Fargo season 3 spoilers

I loved the ending of season 3 of Fargo, which is every bit as ambiguous. I think it's because that was more a statement on power and its role in the justice system. Varga had the juice to wiggle his way out of that holding cell, but obviously you need a lot of juice to avoid charges from the federal government. So the ambiguity works better there because it didn't matter which way it turned out; only that both possible endings were equally plausible. The Sopranos' ending just seemed like ambiguity for ambiguity's sake.

“You probably don’t even hear it when it happens, right?”

 

[Husky25]

Yeah I'm bumping this 10 month old thread because I just finished the series. I thought it was great, but didn't like the ending.

Chase was ambiguous throughout the entire series. He loved leaving the audience with questions that couldn't definitively be answered. He also loved building tension to the point where you just felt like you were going to explode, then letting the air out of the balloon. How many times did it seem like we were going to get a real, balls-to-the-wall war with New York? Every single time they would call a truce and everything was back to normal. When Junior/Livia tried to have Tony killed, it seemed like there would be another war there. Again, turned into nothing. My guess is Tony didn't die in that diner, but Chase probably doesn't even feel strongly either way. He just wanted to make it ambiguous, make it so people on both sides could argue that they were right but not definitively be correct. If he wanted people to know that Tony died, he would've showed Tony dying, or put shown something that gives you a clue he's in danger. I'm not talking about a random dude that keeps looking at Tony. If they had showed Member's Only Guy coming out of the bathroom with a gun in his hand, THEN that final shot the same way, then I would believe Tony is dead.

Honestly it's a little bit of a cop out in my opinion; Chase knew the power of killing Tony and what statement he would've been making (crime doesn't pay! Stay in school kids!) and didn't want to do that. If he wanted Tony to survive, but just show the audience that he has to live with paranoia every minute of every day for the rest of his life, he could've shown MOG come out of the bathroom and walk by Tony's table and make eye contact, then just walk harmlessly by. Chase obviously didn't want to do that, either. I just wish he would've made a decision and played it out.

You're thinking too much into it. MOG killed Tony. Doesn't really matter at this point. James Ganolfini being gone sort of precludes any sequel to the series. OTOH, his son is a spitting image and, though I think it has a better chance of being awful, I am really looking forward to The Many Saints of Newark.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Nope. The Sopranos got away without any consequences, as they always did. Meadow playing bumper cars in the street out front and then simply parking someplace else couldn't have driven that point home any clearer than if the 4 of them all turned to the camera in the diner and gave it the finger.