Something needs to happen... Or we need new rumors...

[pj]

That's ridiculous. Really. The company they want to keep is NYC, Washington DC, Philly, Chicago, etc. Being in Dallas and Houston doesn't hurt either. Are you telling me that they want to go to the Big12 with their Olympic-only's in order to play TCU, Baylor, Iowa State, etc.?? Right now, they still get to play against UConn, Ville, Georgetown, Nova, St. Johns, Marquette, Cincy, etc. And Memphis in a non-football capacity is not bad for ND either.

All this talk about ND to the ACC was about them wanting to keep their eastern ties. Now, all of the sudden, they're willing to forsake the east coast for a non-football move?? I'll believe it when I see it...

Remember we're talking non-football sports only. For basketball, the Big East is still attractive, but it's lost some ground to other conferences with Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU leaving. For other sports, travel costs matter more than markets. The Big 12 is now better for that than a trans-continental new Big East. The Big 10 would be even better.

If they really want eastern markets, they could negotiate to bring UConn, Rutgers, and Virginia into the Big 10 with them. Penn State and Rutgers would bring Philly, Rutgers and UConn NYC, UVa would get a good part of DC.

 

[pj]

When is everyone going to realize that the Big 12 NEEDS FSU and Clemson to be considered a stable power conference? The Big 12 is doing everything they can to convince everyone they are the 4th power conference ahead of the ACC, but they need 12 teams with a conference championship. Think about it for a minute. The Big 12 lost Nebraska, Texas A&M, Missouri, and Colorado, and the two replacements so far are West Virginia and TCU. If they added BYU and Louisville to go to 12, this may not be a top 4 conference, especially if FSU gets their act together and the ACC becomes more relevant.

Don't forget, Texas explored their options for joining other conferences and Oklahoma was begging the Big 1G and PAC 12 to join. The Big 12 becomes stable if FSU or ND joins for all sports. Otherwise, the conference remains risky even with the Grant of Rights.

An excellent point. A top-heavy conference with two marquee names and a bunch of weak sisters is always going to be fragile. They need more top-25 caliber programs and FSU, Clemson, etc would bring that.

 

[mattp]

An excellent point. A top-heavy conference with two marquee names and a bunch of weak sisters is always going to be fragile. They need more top-25 caliber programs and FSU, Clemson, etc would bring that.

they have WVU now. by taking the BE's only real elite team they now have 3 elite teams and 7 "weak sisters" which is really a pretty good ratio. if you figure in any given year one or two of the lesser teams will put together a nice season they really aren't that top heavy. i'd say they're less top heavy than the ACC, PAC12 or B1G by a solid margin. the only thing is i wonder is if WVU would join the ACC if offered down the road. it would be a much more natural fit. the ACC was flat out nuts to offer either Cuse or Pitt before them

 

[The Funster]

I'd have to see how WVU is going to recruit out of the Big 12 before I can say they are an elite team.

 

[Marty Jackson]

When is everyone going to realize that the Big 12 NEEDS FSU and Clemson to be considered a stable power conference? The Big 12 is doing everything they can to convince everyone they are the 4th power conference ahead of the ACC, but they need 12 teams with a conference championship. Think about it for a minute. The Big 12 lost Nebraska, Texas A&M, Missouri, and Colorado, and the two replacements so far are West Virginia and TCU. If they added BYU and Louisville to go to 12, this may not be a top 4 conference, especially if FSU gets their act together and the ACC becomes more relevant.

Don't forget, Texas explored their options for joining other conferences and Oklahoma was begging the Big 1G and PAC 12 to join. The Big 12 becomes stable if FSU or ND joins for all sports. Otherwise, the conference remains risky even with the Grant of Rights.

I think you are on to something. the Big12 gained 'big-4' status when they were believed to be cherry picking the prize schools off the ACC tree.
If the ACC schools don't go, for whatever reason, the ACC no longer looks like a dead conference, but one that competes for the #4 spot amongst the big boys.
And the Big12 gets knocked down a peg because they would be forced to add UofL and BYU. Not bad, but clearly not the grand slam ND, FSU, or Clemson would have been. schools don't leave for equal or lesser conferences. Big12 having to poach the Big East and not the ACC sends a big message about pecking order.

Of course, if the ACC doesn't get poached, Uconn is stuck in an even more watered down Big East without UofL...

 

[Marty Jackson]

they have WVU now. by taking the BE's only real elite team they now have 3 elite teams and 7 "weak sisters" which is really a pretty good ratio. if you figure in any given year one or two of the lesser teams will put together a nice season they really aren't that top heavy. i'd say they're less top heavy than the ACC, PAC12 or B1G by a solid margin. the only thing is i wonder is if WVU would join the ACC if offered down the road. it would be a much more natural fit. the ACC was flat out nuts to offer either Cuse or Pitt before them

Did you just put WVU on par with Texas and OK as one of the elite schools in the Big12? So now that the schackles are off, and the weight of being in the BE is gone, WVU is suddenly a Top 10 program?
how does that happen. I'm really curious.

 

[mattp]

Did you just put WVU on par with Texas and OK as one of the elite schools in the Big12? So now that the schackles are off, and the weight of being in the BE is gone, WVU is suddenly a Top 10 program?
how does that happen. I'm really curious.

can you name me 10 schools that have had more success over the last decade? i don't know that i'd quite put them in my top 10, but they'd be right on the outskirts in the 12-13 range.

 

[pj]

WVU is one of those frequent Top 25 programs that the Big 12 needs. TCU will probably be that too. It was a very good choice of expansion teams. If they add a few more of that caliber, the conference would have good balance. FSU and Clemson would have brought that.

 

[Marty Jackson]

can you name me 10 schools that have had more success over the last decade? i don't know that i'd quite put them in my top 10, but they'd be right on the outskirts in the 12-13 range.

Ohio State, alabama, Oregon, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, and Boise State are off the top of my head...
I am certain that I could find another 10 programs if I'd searched the internet for schools that have had more success in the past 10 years.
WVU is a solid program and was the flagship school for BE football since 2003. They are not a top 15 program. If they were, then I guess I don't understand all the crap that the BE has taken for not having a team finish in the top 25 consistently. WVU going to the Big12 did not make them a top 15 program overnight.

 

[Marty Jackson]

WVU is one of those frequent Top 25 programs that the Big 12 needs. TCU will probably be that too. It was a very good choice of expansion teams. If they add a few more of that caliber, the conference would have good balance. FSU and Clemson would have brought that.

exactly... this notion that WVU just became a top 15 program that wil give Texas and OK a run for their money is crap... WVU hasn't played one down in the Big12, but suddenly they've replaced Nebraska...

 

[mattp]

Ohio State, alabama, Oregon, Florida, Texas, Oklahoma, USC, LSU, Wisconsin, Virginia Tech, and Boise State are off the top of my head...
I am certain that I could find another 10 programs if I'd searched the internet for schools that have had more success in the past 10 years.
WVU is a solid program and was the flagship school for BE football since 2003. They are not a top 15 program. If they were, then I guess I don't understand all the crap that the BE has taken for not having a team finish in the top 25 consistently. WVU going to the Big12 did not make them a top 15 program overnight.

a team that's in the top 25 basically every year is a top 15 program. besides it's very debateable whether VTech, Boise are better. VTEch dominates a weak conference like WVU did, but WVU actually won their BCS games. i think Boise will be exposed in the BE, and good luck coming up with those other 10 teams.

i'm kind of bored now so i'm going to try to put together an objective measure. i'll give 25 points for finishing first down to 1 point to finishing 25. maybe i'll do another set of data where i add in 10 points for a BCS win and 5 for a BCS appearance, does that seem fair enough? if not we can adjust it. i'll get back when i crunch the numbers

 

[mattp]

a team that's in the top 25 basically every year is a top 15 program. besides it's very debateable whether VTech, Boise are better. VTEch dominates a weak conference like WVU did, but WVU actually won their BCS games. i think Boise will be exposed in the BE, and good luck coming up with those other 10 teams.

i'm kind of bored now so i'm going to try to put together an objective measure. i'll give 25 points for finishing first down to 1 point to finishing 25. maybe i'll do another set of data where i add in 10 points for a BCS win and 5 for a BCS appearance, does that seem fair enough? if not we can adjust it. i'll get back when i crunch the numbers

i threw out BCS bowl appearances b/c i got bored after spending a half hour coming up with this, and my boss would probably fire me if he saw me wasting this much time. after crunching them i have USC(184), OSU(179), OK(155), TX(154), LSU(153), Boise(127), UGA(119), VTch(108), FL (102), Aub(101), Oregon(92), Wisc(86), WVU(71). i used the AP polls from 2002-2011 since i couldn't find the others. either way it puts them at #13. i probably made a mistake or two, but they're still within one standard deviation from the top 15, and if we calculated in BCS bowl appearances/performance they'd probably improve somewhat. i was surprised as how much better Boise and VTech were than WVU using these metrics.

 

[jrazz12]

i threw out BCS bowl appearances b/c i got bored after spending a half hour coming up with this, and my boss would probably fire me if he saw me wasting this much time. after crunching them i have USC(184), OSU(179), OK(155), TX(154), LSU(153), Boise(127), UGA(119), VTch(108), FL (102), Aub(101), Oregon(92), Wisc(86), WVU(71). i used the AP polls from 2002-2011 since i couldn't find the others. either way it puts them at #13. i probably made a mistake or two, but they're still within one standard deviation from the top 15, and if we calculated in BCS bowl appearances/performance they'd probably improve somewhat. i was surprised as how much better Boise and VTech were than WVU using these metrics.

Well it helps VTech when they inexplicably get a top 10 ranking every year to start the season, proceed to go 8-4, win the terrible ACC, get blown out in a BCS bowl, and still end up 10-15. There's no more overrated program in the country over the past 10 years than them

 

[Marty Jackson]

a team that's in the top 25 basically every year is a top 15 program. besides it's very debateable whether VTech, Boise are better. VTEch dominates a weak conference like WVU did, but WVU actually won their BCS games. i think Boise will be exposed in the BE, and good luck coming up with those other 10 teams.

i'm kind of bored now so i'm going to try to put together an objective measure. i'll give 25 points for finishing first down to 1 point to finishing 25. maybe i'll do another set of data where i add in 10 points for a BCS win and 5 for a BCS appearance, does that seem fair enough? if not we can adjust it. i'll get back when i crunch the numbers

so what you are saying is that WVU is a Top 15 program that has been disguised as a Big East program the past 10 years?
Wow... never realized how good they are. So where does Cincy rank since they finished ahead of WVU 3 out of the past 5 years?

 

[Dann]

so what you are saying is that WVU is a Top 15 program that has been disguised as a Big East program the past 10 years?
Wow... never realized how good they are. So where does Cincy rank since they finished ahead of WVU 3 out of the past 5 years?

cincy lately has been a 25ish program. they also lost a coach and gave up the stadium fight by playing some games down the street.
wvu has a huge fanbase and a great history. cincy lacks those compared to wvu.

 

[observer]

WVU's first lesson as TX's b*eatch looks like an expensive one. With FSU and Clemson having no interest in the Big12 TX is now firmly against any expansion beyond 10.

Supposedly the deal WVU had with the Big12 is that they would receive a phased in full share; 50% year one; 67% and 75%, getting a full share starting in year four. However, supposedly the deal further provided that if the Big12 expanded to 12 and added a CCG that WVU would immediately get a full share.

So, just for rounding say the Big12 payout is 20 mil per team. Year one WVU loses 10 mil; year two 6.67 mil and year three 5 mil for a total of 21.6 mil.

The 'Eers will lose 20 mil plus because TX does not want the Big 12 to expand with any of the teams that are out there. The 'Eeers better get used to being in the grab your ankles position because that is how it always was and always will be in the TX conference..

 

[mattp]

i think WVU gave up a good thing by leaving the BE. they're going to have a hard time making the same kind of bowls they'd been making with games against TX and OU. in the long run they'll always be 3rd fiddle to them, whereas they could have dominated the Big East. in reality i think TCU is going to make the most of it's upgrade and WVU might even be 4th. WVU's success was largely the result of a vacuum in the BE and it'll be interesting to see if they can carry that over to the new league. really TCU is the biggest winner out of this whole thing. they're unquestionably in a better position in every conceivable way

 

[pj]

I think WVU will take 4th and $20 million a year over 1st and $6 million a year. Their 4th in the Big 12 might get them in the Top 25 as easily as their 1st in the Big East, and they'll make more money doing it.

If they had gone to the SEC, I'd agree, but in the Big 12 there are so many weak teams, you're not going to miss out on bowls because Texas and Oklahoma are on your schedule.

 

[uconndogs]

WVU's first lesson as TX's b*eatch looks like an expensive one. With FSU and Clemson having no interest in the Big12 TX is now firmly against any expansion beyond 10.

Supposedly the deal WVU had with the Big12 is that they would receive a phased in full share; 50% year one; 67% and 75%, getting a full share starting in year four. However, supposedly the deal further provided that if the Big12 expanded to 12 and added a CCG that WVU would immediately get a full share.

So, just for rounding say the Big12 payout is 20 mil per team. Year one WVU loses 10 mil; year two 6.67 mil and year three 5 mil for a total of 21.6 mil.

The 'Eers will lose 20 mil plus because TX does not want the Big 12 to expand with any of the teams that are out there. The 'Eeers better get used to being in the grab your ankles position because that is how it always was and always will be in the TX conference..

good lord your are annoying..........

 

[observer]

i think WVU gave up a good thing by leaving the BE. they're going to have a hard time making the same kind of bowls they'd been making with games against TX and OU. in the long run they'll always be 3rd fiddle to them, whereas they could have dominated the Big East. in reality i think TCU is going to make the most of it's upgrade and WVU might even be 4th. WVU's success was largely the result of a vacuum in the BE and it'll be interesting to see if they can carry that over to the new league. really TCU is the biggest winner out of this whole thing. they're unquestionably in a better position in every conceivable way

WVU may even drop to a regular 5th in the Big12 because as you said they have to deal with TX, OU and TCU but don't forget about OSU. Boone Pickens has been funding OSU with mega bucks so they have top quality facilities and have been stronger on the field as a result.

 

[mattp]

i'm not sure that OSU's been able to spend much of Picken's money. he made them keep his biggest donation in his hedge fund and lost much of it a few years ago. he said he'd make it back for them, but i don't think OSU has really been able to put much of it to use

 

[huskymedic]

5th place Big 12 gets you sunny San Diego and the Holiday Bowl versus #3 PAC under current system. 5th place in Big East gets you to Memphis or Mobile

 

[HuskyHawk]

i think WVU gave up a good thing by leaving the BE. they're going to have a hard time making the same kind of bowls they'd been making with games against TX and OU. in the long run they'll always be 3rd fiddle to them, whereas they could have dominated the Big East. in reality i think TCU is going to make the most of it's upgrade and WVU might even be 4th. WVU's success was largely the result of a vacuum in the BE and it'll be interesting to see if they can carry that over to the new league. really TCU is the biggest winner out of this whole thing. they're unquestionably in a better position in every conceivable way

4th? Last year they would have been behind Missouri, OU, K-State and OSU. That's with UT being terrible and without TCU. It will vary year to year, but they will find very few years that they don't lose 2-3 games minimum, sometimes more.

 

[Marty Jackson]

read Pitt is having buyers remorse on the ACC and is considering the Big12 with UofL and Cincy. Gives two rivalries (pitt/WVU and UofL/Cincy)...
Good news is, if that happens, ACC still exists and Uconn is a good next choice alongside Syr.

 

[UConnDan97]

read Pitt is having buyers remorse on the ACC and is considering the Big12 with UofL and Cincy. Gives two rivalries (pitt/WVU and UofL/Cincy)...
Good news is, if that happens, ACC still exists and Uconn is a good next choice alongside Syr.

Source? That rumor sounds silly, that's why I'm asking.