Some thoughts on the MWC news

[businesslawyer]

bizarre and unreadable

You're not here enough Mark. Callling that particular HFD post bizarre and unreadable is like calling the Speaker a Republican wackadoodle. In each case (HFD's posts or republicans) it gets a lot worse.

 

[Dann]

bizarre and unreadable

just like the bernie fine case details?

 

[Pudge]

As a guy who lives in upstate NY ... the thing to remember is the bizarre contrast between the Townie fans from Central NY & the uppercrust elitist kids that attend the University (and then run out of the 315 as fast as possible). I don't think it is a large fanbase (despite the basketball attendance). It does not extend to Albany nor Buffalo. (small percentages) And ... for most of the last 20 years, major Institutional investors would not put their money in Central New York property; so, the Corporate pockets aren't deep. It has strong civic mindedness ... but that doesn't overcome a simply stagnant local economy. (and why you find Syracuse businessmen all over the rest of the Northeast)

I don't think they have the prospects that UConn has in the long run. I don't think their brand is near as good as ours. (btw ... whaler ... that's just bizarre that you ding the WBB so much. Give it a rest) We have something that can really be built much greater. I am of mixed heart. Warde Manual ... thus far ... gets a No Confidence vote from me. And I do like Susan Herbst.

O ... and the MWC? I don't see how the MWC can win. (but I am wrong repeatedly lately) They cannot grab the Mark to Market TV rights pricing that Aresco can get. And we have a clear $17m win on the BCS in the next cycle. I understand Boise is using the leverage they have. But, I bet Aresco (former CBS exec) knows something about what can be put on the table. We can have a good 2013 schedule and beyond. And, I am NOT pining for the ACC or the B1G for 8 years like our Cuse fans.

 

[whaler11]

Funny that you would mention the perception of an ACC school, since the ACC is one of the few college conferences that seems to give a damn about women's basketball (UNC, Duke, Maryland). I'm not saying that football is left out of the equation, since as I stated before, "Football is king." However, having a good football team and a crap women's program is NOT greater than having a good football team and a championship women's program. Period. You should know better than that.

And it's not just the SNY money, my friend. It's also the UConn brand being viewed as excellent in every avenue we take. Men's basketball. Women's basketball. Both soccer teams. Hockey. There are a great many ACC teams that actually give a damn about the performance of the olympic sports. There are also a great many B1G teams that give a damn about it as well. So should you....

Sure. Once you point out a single conference realignment move that had anything to do with anything other than football or cable television subscribers I'll make sure to grab season tickets for field hockey. UConn has excellent teams in a lot of non-revenue sports, yet you've watched Rutgers, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, West Virginia, TCU and Louisville land on their feet.

Please - the brand being about excellence, like anyone is paying attention to these things: Without looking it up tell me what non-revenue sports TCU, Missouri or Texas A&M are good at.

I think sometimes people who follow this stuff lose sight of the tiny niche it inhabits. If you were in downtown Hartford on Wednesday morning the 3rd and asked the first 500 people who walked past you to name one team who made the men's soccer final four in 2012 how many do you think could come up with one? 3% would be 15 - do you think you'd get more than 15?

Pudge, I'm not dinging UConn's women's basketball - the success has created a set of circumstances though:

A: Some of the money that is spent on women's basketball is not spent on football or men's basketball. Now it's probably not a huge percentage but there is some.
B: The success of the women's basketball program has led to a portion of the fanbase who can't comprehend that level of success is impossible in men's sports.
C: It's further spoiled the fanbase - fickle to start - why support a 5-7, 5-7 football team when the 'girls' may run off 80 in a row at any point.
D: You know how we think people that watch bass fishing or NASCAR on TV are nuts - well the southerners who control college football think the same thing about people watching women's college basketball

 

[UConnDan97]

Sure. Once you point out a single conference realignment move that had anything to do with anything other than football or cable television subscribers I'll make sure to grab season tickets for field hockey.

Are you okay?

THAT'S WHAT I SAID!!! If it is all about football, then why the hell, in your estimation, is it a negative to have a dominant women's bball team?!? The real answer is that it isn't a negative, and that you're just too stubborn to admit that you were speaking in hyperbole again, and that you didn't really mean that we have been left out of realignment because our women are successful! If you truly think we've been left out of realignment because our women are successful, then I don't know what else to say to you...

 

[whaler11]

Are you okay?

THAT'S WHAT I SAID!!! If it is all about football, then why the hell, in your estimation, is it a negative to have a dominant women's bball team?!? The real answer is that it isn't a negative, and that you're just too stubborn to admit that you were speaking in hyperbole again, and that you didn't really mean that we have been left out of realignment because our women are successful! If you truly think we've been left out of realignment because our women are successful, then I don't know what else to say to you...

I edited the post with the reasons. I don't think we've been left out of realignment because of it.... but I certainly don't think it's helped.

 

[UConnDan97]

I edited the post with the reasons. I don't think we've been left out of realignment because of it.... but I certainly don't think it's helped.

At worst, it's a neutral. Literally at worst. And to a conference commissioner, it has to look like a positive, even if it is only to a small degree, simply because it means extra revenue for the conference in the off season (and in this case, extra possibilities for the B1GNetwork or whatever conference's network we're talking about). That's all I'm saying...

 

[whaler11]

At worst, it's a neutral. Literally at worst. And to a conference commissioner, it has to look like a positive, even if it is only to a small degree, simply because it means extra revenue for the conference in the off season (and in this case, extra possibilities for the B1GNetwork or whatever conference's network we're talking about). That's all I'm saying...

That's a good point - it could be a positive for a league that shares Tier 3 and not as much for a league that doesn't. I don't really buy into this Big 10 stuff - it's still looks like ACC or bust to me, so I hadn't given much thought to that.

I think that you are brushing off the impact that Geno's success has had on the mentality of a percentage of the fanbase. Granted most of his fanbase isn't exactly a football demographic: but people here are bizarre - we have factions in the men's basketball fanbase that would prefer if the football team disbanded. We had UConn fans who hated the Whalers, just for existing. Maybe I'm missing someplace similar but it seems unique. It's also a bit unique in we have a lot of people from here who don't like UConn at all which is especially strange in a state with only one school at the highest level.

 

[UConnDan97]

That's a good point - it could be a positive for a league that shares Tier 3 and not as much for a league that doesn't. I don't really buy into this Big 10 stuff - it's still looks like ACC or bust to me, so I hadn't given much thought to that.

I think that you are brushing off the impact that Geno's success has had on the mentality of a percentage of the fanbase. Granted most of his fanbase isn't exactly a football demographic: but people here are bizarre - we have factions in the men's basketball fanbase that would prefer if the football team disbanded. We had UConn fans who hated the Whalers, just for existing. Maybe I'm missing someplace similar but it seems unique.

I think that for one reason or another, people sink their identity into "which program" they support. In other words, it's not enough for some people to be a UConn fan. They have to be a UConn women's basketball fan, or a men's basketball fan, or a football fan. I never understood that, but you're right that it exists. However, I'll say that the number of people who are exclusively women's bball fans is much smaller than the other two. It really shouldn't become a factor in defining our psyche. I would buy more of the argument that the men's bball fans make us look like a bball school vs. a football school much more so than the women's fans...

 

[whaler11]

I think that for one reason or another, people sink their identity into "which program" they support. In other words, it's not enough for some people to be a UConn fan. They have to be a UConn women's basketball fan, or a men's basketball fan, or a football fan. I never understood that, but you're right that it exists. However, I'll say that the number of people who are exclusively women's bball fans is much smaller than the other two. It really shouldn't become a factor in defining our psyche. I would buy more of the argument that the men's bball fans make us look like a bball school vs. a football school much more so than the women's fans...

By sheer headcount I think there are more fans that only watch/support women's basketball locally. Maybe nationally there are enough men's basketball fans to outnumber them - but the number of seniors who only roll with women's basketball I think outnumber the men's fans who dislike the football program.

I'd love to see the viewership in Connecticut for Syracuse/WVU, Louisville/Kentucky and UConn/Stanford today.

Where would you put people locally in these categories:
Lean Football/Lean MBB/Lean WBB/Equal FB&MBB/Equal MBB&WBB/All 3 equal

I'd say
15%/30%/10%/25%/15%/5%

I'd put myself in the first group at this point. I will travel for football but haven't taken a big roadtrip for a MBB game since the Maryland game in Syracuse. The Garden is as far as I go for MBB at this point.

 

[SubbaBub]

bizarre and unreadable

It's like the Matrix. If you look at it long enough, you'll see it.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[UConnDan97]

By sheer headcount I think there are more fans that only watch/support women's basketball locally. Maybe nationally there are enough men's basketball fans to outnumber them - but the number of seniors who only roll with women's basketball I think outnumber the men's fans who dislike the football program.

I'd love to see the viewership in Connecticut for Syracuse/WVU, Louisville/Kentucky and UConn/Stanford today.

Where would you put people locally in these categories:
Lean Football/Lean MBB/Lean WBB/Equal FB&MBB/Equal MBB&WBB/All 3 equal

I'd say
15%/30%/10%/25%/15%/5%

I'd put myself in the first group at this point. I will travel for football but haven't taken a big roadtrip for a MBB game since the Maryland game in Syracuse. The Garden is as far as I go for MBB at this point.

I'd probably say that I am equal football and men's bball, with women's bball a close third (with men's soccer). I probably won't travel out of state for any of the games (more due to life situations than desire), but I will pay to see all four when they play in state. Your percentage breakdown is fair, and I'm not sure I would argue with any of it...

 

[whaler11]

I'd probably say that I am equal football and men's bball, with women's bball a close third (with men's soccer). I probably won't travel out of state for any of the games (more due to life situations than desire), but I will pay to see all four when they play in state. Your percentage breakdown is fair, and I'm not sure I would argue with any of it...

I'm looking forward to hockey. Since the vast majority of their fans will come from the current categories shouldn't lead to any further splintering.

 

[UConnDan97]

I'm looking forward to hockey. Since the vast majority of their fans will come from the current categories shouldn't lead to any further splintering.

Yeah, I'm looking forward to hockey, too. I saw them play in the hut, then at Freitas, and now soon to see them in the XL Center. What a transformation!

 

[Pudge]

Pudge, I'm not dinging UConn's women's basketball - the success has created a set of circumstances though:

A: Some of the money that is spent on women's basketball is not spent on football or men's basketball. Now it's probably not a huge percentage but there is some.
B: The success of the women's basketball program has led to a portion of the fanbase who can't comprehend that level of success is impossible in men's sports.
C: It's further spoiled the fanbase - fickle to start - why support a 5-7, 5-7 football team when the 'girls' may run off 80 in a row at any point.
D: You know how we think people that watch bass fishing or NASCAR on TV are nuts - well the southerners who control college football think the same thing about people watching women's college basketball

Spoken like every Jock guy you can talk to in any Sports Bar across America.

We are coming out of pocket for WBB. That simply is not the case. We have a Net Income from it; you can look it up. We also pay our HC a gob of money ... you can look that up ... and we still are taking home shekels. We are one of only a few that can say this in this sport.

I could care less whether some WBB fan things every sport should be 30-0 every year or win by 50. I don't think it has diddly effect on any other component of UConn sports. I do think we (WE) the UConn fanbase underestimated how difficult FBS/BCS level football is & we have not worked hard enough to make all components work. But ... I don't think that comes from WBB. There is ONLY so many dollars that a Market can spend on entertaiment. I wonder if someone says ... I spent X on WBB & I don't have it for Football or MBB or other things. I'd say on whole ... I don't think so.

And what does the PERCEPTION of the National audience think of UConn being the DOMINANT PLAYER (really only a few close) in WBB. This is an evolving viewpoint for me (as I have changed over time); I think it is important. It says this little bitty school (where the MBB also builds champion caliber) can really bring it. WBB is WAY beyond Track or Volleyball or Softball or Wrestling. It is the top Women's sport. And, definitely adds to our Brand.

It is beyond a "cute" thing. And, I bet is far more important to Presidents of Universities than the Average guy in the Bar.

 

[whaler11]

Spoken like every Jock guy you can talk to in any Sports Bar across America.

We are coming out of pocket for WBB. That simply is not the case. We have a Net Income from it; you can look it up. We also pay our HC a gob of money ... you can look that up ... and we still are taking home shekels. We are one of only a few that can say this in this sport.

I could care less whether some WBB fan things every sport should be 30-0 every year or win by 50. I don't think it has diddly effect on any other component of UConn sports. I do think we (WE) the UConn fanbase underestimated how difficult FBS/BCS level football is & we have not worked hard enough to make all components work. But ... I don't think that comes from WBB. There is ONLY so many dollars that a Market can spend on entertaiment. I wonder if someone says ... I spent X on WBB & I don't have it for Football or MBB or other things. I'd say on whole ... I don't think so.

And what does the PERCEPTION of the National audience think of UConn being the DOMINANT PLAYER (really only a few close) in WBB. This is an evolving viewpoint for me (as I have changed over time); I think it is important. It says this little bitty school (where the MBB also builds champion caliber) can really bring it. WBB is WAY beyond Track or Volleyball or Softball or Wrestling. It is the top Women's sport. And, definitely adds to our Brand.

It is beyond a "cute" thing. And, I bet is far more important to Presidents of Universities than the Average guy in the Bar.

Great arguments against points that weren't made. One to hang on your fridge.

If you don't think there are UConn fans who aren't clouded by their results I'd suggest you read through the women's basketball board at this very site.

Also, yes I'm telling you what the average sports fan at a bar thinks like - you may have noticed it's that mentality that forced the ACC to add Louisville over UConn.

If you don't think people make choices between spending money on football, mens baskeball or women's basketball... Well that's contrary to many people who say that they do and contrary to simple logic. There is a limit to the amount of money companies and people are willing to spend - given more options the money is obviously diluted.

Are you really going to take the position that the football and basketball programs don't compete for some of the same dollars? Just think for two seconds before replying in broken capitalization.

As for the perception of the NATIONAL audience - they don't give a about who wins college women's basketball championships. It ranks around who won the Champions Tour or the Baltimore F-1 race.

 

[businesslawyer]

If I say "WBB is not about the money" would people get it? We produce revenue from something almost no one else does. Has it been important in the last rounds of expansion? Obviously not. But there is no way you can turn something that makes money into a negative in the current environment. Eventually, someone will start looking at revenue streams beyond just football. (The only real question is will some other conference get there in time).

 

[chrisn671]

I'm not really sure how anyone would perceive having the top WBB program as a knock during realignment. WBB may be one of the toughest sports to follow for your "everyday" sports fan. It is not an eye popping sport. Football on the other hand is, and is one of the easiest sports to follow for the "everyday" fan. If people want to say that UConn doesn't have the following for big boy football, all they need to do is look toward WBB to see the potential for growth in fan base. That is one of the reasons some might call UConn a "sleeping giant."

 

[Dann]

@nelsonmuntz

this is ot to this thread sorta. i was wondering if u ever read the tosu guy "nevada"? i only have been when i see him talked about but i guess he has been on this train of b10 going big for a long time and he seems to think #20 slot in time will come down to kansas vs uconn. he thinks kansas gts the nod but its a question of how far uconn can come by that time with all the metrics needed. it really makes me wonder if we can make the right things happen in time. aau seems to be happening but we need to flip our fball program and other things quickly. kansas just flipped its fball program and its bball is one of very few that cancel our bball advantage out fwiw in the grand scheme. that scares me. i like our market and our reach to other cities but kansas fits the b10 culture and also is big in a few cities also. if this nevada guy is right then i think this is susans race to win. i just don't like how confident he is in the next couple moves(unc/uva/duke/gt then nd and kansas or uconn).
i would love nothing more than for uconn/uva/unc/kan/nd/gtech. thats a top fball conf and a bball conf that will go down in the history on mankind.

 

[businesslawyer]

@nelsonmuntz

this is ot to this thread sorta. i was wondering if u ever read the tosu guy "nevada"? i only have been when i see him talked about but i guess he has been on this train of b10 going big for a long time and he seems to think #20 slot in time will come down to kansas vs uconn. he thinks kansas gts the nod but its a question of how far uconn can come by that time with all the metrics needed. it really makes me wonder if we can make the right things happen in time. aau seems to be happening but we need to flip our fball program and other things quickly. kansas just flipped its fball program and its bball is one of very few that cancel our bball advantage out fwiw in the grand scheme. that scares me. i like our market and our reach to other cities but kansas fits the b10 culture and also is big in a few cities also. if this nevada guy is right then i think this is susans race to win. i just don't like how confident he is in the next couple moves(unc/uva/duke/gt then nd and kansas or uconn).
i would love nothing more than for uconn/uva/unc/kan/nd/gtech. thats a top fball conf and a bball conf that will go down in the history on mankind.

O.K., what have I missed the last month while I've been paying little attention. How did we go in the HFD analysis from likely to be led into the Big Ten to battling for a 20th spot?

 

[noeynox]

USS Connecticut hit an iceberg. Currently it is taking on a lot of water and sending out SOS signals.

 

[Dann]

O.K., what have I missed the last month while I've been paying little attention. How did we go in the HFD analysis from likely to be led into the Big Ten to battling for a 20th spot?

the trend seems to be that the b10 has now made it well clear and known that they are going beyond the 14/16 that ppl orginally thought was the end game. but that trend can't just be a 1 conf deal, it sneeds to be matched by others otherwise that big conf has a huge advantage in $ and inventory among other things. so the trend is the sec seems to be rushing its network so that they can then rush a 2nd network to match the b10 in time and also go big. the 2 of them will wreck the acc becuase they don't want the b12 to survive and has access to any teams on the east coast. the b12 in any way access wise hurts the sec/big. so thet will do the wrecking and together work with the pac to destroy the b10 by a vote of majority leaving kill the gor type deal. the sec would never allow a texas or ok to have conf games vs fsu in its back yard. that type of stuff will be prevented. the adds to 20 are about home turf, inventory, new markets, great fball schools/fanbases and several other things. networks need fanbases that watch, not just great nearby untouched markets. gtech may be a double take in the atl, but they have a big fanbase that can help the sec get cable boxes on. thats the end game and the day a state in the south will prevent one of its publics from reaching the top let me know. as much as a fl or uga can bitch, lets be real about it. its a great thing for the state to have both in and not out.

espn tried to save the acc and now knows its done, but what espn is now trying to do is . they are going to try to keep the acc alive by doing the c7 type thing with leftover fball schools. aka the big east idea. but clearly not being a big 4 it may work out different.

important things
1) md buyout....low low low....
2) whats majorit vote on b12? is it 75%? if so thats 8 out of 10 teams must vote to blow it up. in order for that then the pac/b1g/sec must have 8 teams in mind to help each other make the blow up happen. who gets then?

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Dan, you may need to give your liver a break while you still have some active brain cells.

The B1G won't do any trending. They will be deliberate and thorough before any move. It has been their MO from before they invited Ohio State.

While we may have been surprised by the additions of Maryland and Rutgers, it is pretty safe to say that these moves were a few years in the making. Their next moves may not happen for a few more years (which while it may not make us happy at the moment, the further out those moves are, the better it is for us).

I doubt that the B1G gets to 20 in my lifetime and I will wager heavily that they won't jump from 14 to 20. That is now how they operate.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I kinda left this thread for a few days.

I think UConn has as good a shot as any school for one of the next two slots in the B1G, if the B1G decides to expand.

I simply do not believe Georgia Tech will get added. It will always be a distant second in Georgia, and when the SEC rolls out a network, it will be very difficult for the BTN to get full freight charges on local cable anywhere in the South. Georgia Tech will not move that needle more than a nickel or so per subscriber.

Texas may be slowly strangling the Big 12 with its opposition to the expansion. There is no way the Big 12 will remain a player at 10 schools with Texas as its only major market.

The MWC has almost no chance of emerging as the winner relative to the Big East, unless the Big East does something colossally stupid like refuse to add western schools as all sports member. Given the Big East's track record of decision making, the MWC's chances improve to 50/50.

Time is UConn's enemy. The longer UConn stays in the NNBE, the worse it is for UConn.

 

[Pudge]

I never read the Women's Basketball Board.

And to Nelson Muntz, I have watched the Syracuse Board pine to be out of the Big East since 2003. I don't expect UConn to go to the ACC or the B1G soon. So, I'm hoping our fans don't get discouraged & just love the games.

A conference schedule of Temple, USF, UCF, Navy, Cincinnati, ECU, SMU, San Diego St. Add some good OOC.

Just take good news - Kevin Ollie - and build.