Some thoughts on positivity/negativity, and a mea culpa

[HuskyNan]

I've been thinking about the diverse groups of fans we have here on the Boneyard. As I noted in my Unabashedly Positive Post, we have fans that aren't interested in stats or analysis and there are fans that really love to examine the team from different angles and these folks are more likely to notice something awry in shooting percentage and whatnot. Neither group has "better" fans than the other; they're just different. Different is what makes the Boneyard interesting.

Now, the people that see areas where the Huskies can improve aren't negative posters; they're simply criticial with an eye towards the team's improvement. The word critical has two meanings and I believe our fellow fans offer their comments in the spirit of the second definition:

1. inclined to criticize severely and unfavorably
2. exercising or involving careful judgment or judicious evaluation

The issue is that different people have different levels of tolerance for mistakes/problems, or maybe they aren't interested in looking for mistakes/problems and they don't necessarily want to discuss them. Well, for these people, they'll need to be more tolerant because the Boneyard is a forum for discussing basketball in all the various ways that appeals to fans.

Another issue is that some fans who do choose to watch the team with a more critical eye sometimes focus on one player or one area (e.g rebounding, turnovers, etc) and post on the same thing often. I hear from Boneyarders that it's often grating for them to read the same thing from the same poster frequently. (I admit this is one of my failings and offer a mea culpa for any harsh or sarcastic comments I may have made) Maybe before posting the same criticism again, consider if you're starting to repeat yourself. It will head off some of the pushback you've been getting on your posts.

Regarding game threads - as I posted in last night's game thread, they are intended to be "stream of consciousness" things, not in-depth analysis of the game as it's happening. As a participant, I know I have one eye on the TV and the other on my iPad so I can only type brief comments or thoughts and those thoughts tend to be whatever pops into my head that second. For me, and other posters, we don't have time to type "She's normally a fine defender but this team has a quickness she's never seen before. She needs to learn better positioning to keep that type of player in front of her" so what pops out is "that player has been driving by her all night!". So, if you read a game thread the next day, please don't beat on in-game posters for their apparent negativity.

I do apologize for my lack of patience in dealing with the various types of fans we have here. I ask that if you have issues with me, JS, or Biff that you contact us via personal messaging (PM or Conversations, as they're called here) rather than post on the board. To send a PM, click on my handle (HuskyNan) to the left of this post and click on Start a Conversation.

Finally, a very Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Joyous Kwanzaa, Happy Festivus, a belated blessed be for the Yule, belated Blessed Milad un Nabi, and Happy Holidays to all!

 

[rbny1]

You and the other moderators do a truly great job, Nan, in maintaining an appropriate level of intelligent discussion and decorum, with room for many viewpoints, on this board. You have no need to apologize for anything.

 

[msf22b]

As a bit of an outlier over the years, I appreciate the opportunity to (hopefully politely) express my views...a wonderful forum and a fine place to consider woman's BB. Bravo to the mods

Happy holidays
Michael

 

[HuskyNan]

You and the other moderators do a truly great job, Nan, in maintaining an appropriate level of intelligent discussion and decorum, with room for many viewpoints, on this board. You have no need to apologize for anything.

No, I've been cranky lately. There are issues with my job and so on that are not the fault of anyone here on the board and no one here should feel the result of my frustrations.

But, my youngest son is home from college for Christmas and my oldest will be here today, if the weather cooperates. And, more importantly, I've stopped reading the news and started cruising Buddhify instead. It works wonders.

 

[bags27]

I'm sorry for the problems at work, but so far as the Board is concerned, I don't think, Nan, that you have anything to apologize for. I think your recent post encouraging a positive celebration of this team was completely appropriate, and I very hope you didn't get push back for it.

Sports occupies sort of the neutral ground in most societies: something that people can argue about instead of religion and politics, which can lead to war (sports only leads to riots). Sports discussions run the gamut from good natured home town rooting to down right generational bitterness (OMG, Geno put on an ORANGE jacket!!!). BY, in turn, runs the spectrum from fans who simply want UConn to have the most points at the end of the game to those who demand perfection throughout 40 minutes. Thus, there are "fans" and then there are (ha! ha!) "experts." That's true of a lot of boards of dominant teams, for example, Patriots boards.

But--let's be candid about this--it's complicated here by issues of gender and race. It is positively inspirational that we (and your surveys find that most of the "we" are men) root so hard for young women. And I bet most of the "we" are white. So, there is a profound sense of social and moral responsibility and even (yes) nobility in putting forward these young women, many of whom are women of color, as representatives of the virtuous behaviors and excellence that personifies UConn WCBB. Many academics might argue, to the contrary, that this is really a case of patronizing or "domesticating" women and women of color. Well, I'm an academic, and I shed a tear at practically every tip off, so the hell with my colleagues. But the fact that these issues are always in the close background creates significant tension (desire to protect, concern for boundaries of expression) that further conditions our discussions. It also creates a desire to see this team as a personification of the American dream. That is one giant burden to put on a bunch of college kids.

I could go on and on about the complications (there are dozens of serious books on the importance of soccer [football] to Brazilian multi-cultural society), but my point is that this is no easy Red Sox vs Yankees kind of situation. So long as UConn remains the paragon not only of WCBB but something much bigger than that, the BY will attract a widely diverse group of followers, and the BY will be a complicated, contested, place. That's the burden of UConn's success, created by an Italian immigrant who claims to be 6'1".

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm sorry for the problems at work, but so far as the Board is concerned, I don't think, Nan, that you have anything to apologize for. I think your recent post encouraging a positive celebration of this team was completely appropriate, and I very hope you didn't get push back for it.

Sports occupies sort of the neutral ground in most societies: something that people can argue about instead of religion and politics, which can lead to war (sports only leads to riots). Sports discussions run the gamut from good natured home town rooting to down right generational bitterness (OMG, Geno put on an ORANGE jacket!!!). BY, in turn, runs the spectrum from fans who simply want UConn to have the most points at the end of the game to those who demand perfection throughout 40 minutes. Thus, there are "fans" and then there are (ha! ha!) "experts." That's true of a lot of boards of dominant teams, for example, Patriots boards.

But--let's be candid about this--it's complicated here by issues of gender and race. It is positively inspirational that we (and your surveys find that most of the "we" are men) root so hard for young women. And I bet most of the "we" are white. So, there is a profound sense of social and moral responsibility and even (yes) nobility in putting forward these young women, many of whom are women of color, as representatives of the virtuous behaviors and excellence that personifies UConn WCBB. Many academics might argue, to the contrary, that this is really a case of patronizing or "domesticating" women and women of color. Well, I'm an academic, and I shed a tear at practically every tip off, so the hell with my colleagues. But the fact that these issues are always in the close background creates significant tension (desire to protect, concern for boundaries of expression) that further conditions our discussions. It also creates a desire to see this team as the most positive expression of the American dream. That is one giant burden to put on a bunch of college kids.

I could go on and on about the complications (there are dozens of serious books on the importance of soccer [football] to Brazilian multi-cultural society), but my point is that this is no easy Red Sox vs Yankees kind of situation. So long as UConn remains the paragon not only of WCBB but something much bigger than that, the BY will attract a widely diverse group of followers, and the BY will be a complicated, contested, place. That's the burden of UConn's success, created by an Italian immigrant who claims to be 6'1".

I agree nan has nothing to apologize for. I hope the last straw for her wasn't with that exchange with the poster mytwocents. I'm sorry but when that poster made reference to being "threatened" from a harmless post by coco-- that was it. How can you not reply back in an aggressive manner? And some posters will beat things to death in a negative fashion or will invent things that don't exist. And then accuse those that are positive of "not allowing a fair exchange - despite the fact disagreeing with them "is fair exchange." Then you have to worry about if they feel "offended" or "threatened" with a harmless disagreement exchange? Yikes!!!!

 

[HuskyNan]

I agree nan has nothing to apologize for. I hope the last straw for her wasn't with that exchange with the poster mytwocents. I'm sorry but when that poster made reference to being "threatened" from a harmless post by coco-- that was it. How can you not reply back in an aggressive manner? And some posters will beat things to death in a negative fashion or will invent things that don't exist. And then accuse those that are positive of "not allowing a fair exchange - despite the fact disagreeing with them "is fair exchange." Then you have to worry about if they feel "offended" or "threatened" with a harmless disagreement exchange? Yikes!!!!

No, this post has nothing to do with one particular poster or thread. As I said, I've been cranky lately and I took some time to, well, center myself and look at what areas of my life I've been contributing negativity or encouraging a lack of civility. I've also been trying to apologize to anyone that I may have offended. Consider it a year-end clean out of my emotional closet.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

As I've stated many, many times before I'm excessive compulsive so it doesn't take me far to go over the edge! (See my exclamation points!)
That being said, I just can't understand tearing down your favorite team then they win by 25+ points and the player you've gone bonkers on got 22+ points and 8 RB's & 5 assts?
My best trait is LOYALTY! I am extremely loyal (to the death) and really appreciate my true friend's loyalty!
A short story to explain how I view things.
For 30 years I worked a Wrestling camp at Boston University. For the 25th anniversary the boss had famous Wrestlers and Coaches in to celebrate & lecture. One of these is Cael Sanderson, now Head Wrestling Coach at Penn St. then Head coach at his alma mater, Iowa St. Cael was a 4 time National Champion, and undefeated through 4 years of College! He lectured for about 30 minutes with demonstrations, then opened it up to questions, 1 question was, " Do you have any regrets in either your Wrestling career or your life?" Cael was silent for quite a while and said "yes, when I was in the 4th grade, I publicly humiliated my best friend to tears, he asked why I did that and I just laughed and walked away!" "I've thought about what I did to him everyday since then and vowed NEVER to treat another person with disrespect, it's shaped my life and Wrestling career!"
I have come to realize that we have very few really true friends, but many acquaintances, through our lives and we must treasure and nurture those friendships and preserve them!
I'm obviously not perfect but I try to be as loyal as I can to those that have proven their loyalty to me!
Attacking someone I admire makes no sense to me at all as all of us are far from perfect and as long as the effort remains high I try to understand that "manure" happens, even to the best of us! I may be disappointed but not anti!
So remember in the future that I defend my passions to the death!

 

[HuskyNan]

As I've stated many, many times before I'm excessive compulsive so it doesn't take me far to go over the edge! (See my exclamation points!)
That being said, I just can't understand tearing down your favorite team then they win by 25+ points and the player you've gone bonkers on got 22+ points and 8 RB's & 5 assts?
My best trait is LOYALTY! I am extremely loyal (to the death) and really appreciate my true friend's loyalty!
A short story to explain how I view things.
For 30 years I worked a Wrestling camp at Boston University. For the 25th anniversary the boss had famous Wrestlers and Coaches in to celebrate & lecture. One of these is Cael Sanderson, now Head Wrestling Coach at Penn St. then Head coach at his alma mater, Iowa St. Cael was a 4 time National Champion, and undefeated through 4 years of College! He lectured for about 30 minutes with demonstrations, then opened it up to questions, 1 question was, " Do you have any regrets in either your Wrestling career or your life?" Cael was silent for quite a while and said "yes, when I was in the 4th grade, I publicly humiliated my best friend to tears, he asked why I did that and I just laughed and walked away!" "I've thought about what I did to him everyday since then and vowed NEVER to treat another person with disrespect, it's shaped my life and Wrestling career!"
I have come to realize that we have very few really true friends, but many acquaintances, through our lives and we must treasure and nurture those friendships and preserve them!
I'm obviously not perfect but I try to be as loyal as I can to those that have proven their loyalty to me!
Attacking someone I admire makes no sense to me at all as all of us are far from perfect and as long as the effort remains high I try to understand that "manure" happens, even to the best of us! I may be disappointed but not anti!
So remember in the future that I defend my passions to the death!

I totally understand what you're saying but your fellow fans may feel differently, and that's OK. Please put anyone that annoys you on Ignore so that they can post their thoughts and not bother you.

 

[RSHERMVIKES]

I totally understand what you're saying but your fellow fans may feel differently, and that's OK. Please put anyone that annoys you on Ignore so that they can post their thoughts and not bother you.

Hey Nan, I'm going to make it a point in the future to NOT READ any post game threads or comments and avoid the negativity!

 

[SVCBeercats]

"That being said, I just can't understand tearing down your favorite team then they win by 25+ points and the player you've gone bonkers on got 22+ points and 8 RB's & 5 assts?"

Yeah, what's with Geno and CD doing that!

 

[eebmg]

I think I am reasonably in the middle of the distribution of comments in general. Not too saccharine and not too contentious but we should be open to the full variety of discussion (keeping within the BY rules of decorum). I rarely challenge opinions on the extreme wings since they are in the end opinions but I think it helps to keep in mind that the vast majority make comments only out of concern that Geno and company maintain the utopia that has been built at Storrs.

 

[Golden Husky]

As I've stated many, many times before I'm excessive compulsive so it doesn't take me far to go over the edge! (See my exclamation points!)
That being said, I just can't understand tearing down your favorite team then they win by 25+ points and the player you've gone bonkers on got 22+ points and 8 RB's & 5 assts?
My best trait is LOYALTY! I am extremely loyal (to the death) and really appreciate my true friend's loyalty!
A short story to explain how I view things.
For 30 years I worked a Wrestling camp at Boston University. For the 25th anniversary the boss had famous Wrestlers and Coaches in to celebrate & lecture. One of these is Cael Sanderson, now Head Wrestling Coach at Penn St. then Head coach at his alma mater, Iowa St. Cael was a 4 time National Champion, and undefeated through 4 years of College! He lectured for about 30 minutes with demonstrations, then opened it up to questions, 1 question was, " Do you have any regrets in either your Wrestling career or your life?" Cael was silent for quite a while and said "yes, when I was in the 4th grade, I publicly humiliated my best friend to tears, he asked why I did that and I just laughed and walked away!" "I've thought about what I did to him everyday since then and vowed NEVER to treat another person with disrespect, it's shaped my life and Wrestling career!"
I have come to realize that we have very few really true friends, but many acquaintances, through our lives and we must treasure and nurture those friendships and preserve them!
I'm obviously not perfect but I try to be as loyal as I can to those that have proven their loyalty to me!
Attacking someone I admire makes no sense to me at all as all of us are far from perfect and as long as the effort remains high I try to understand that "manure" happens, even to the best of us! I may be disappointed but not anti!
So remember in the future that I defend my passions to the death!

I, too, am passionate...about free speech.

That said, it should be noted that participation on this site is a privilege, not a right, and therefore lacks First Amendment protections. However, short of liable and a handful of off-limit topics and themes, I believe posters should be free to be biased, ignorant, unreasonable and wrong. The best antidote to these views is not censorship but more speech, including your speech, RSHERMVIKES. Refute those views, don't silence them.

As Voltaire is often quoted, "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

Write on, RSHERMVIKES.

 

[bags27]

As Voltaire is often quoted, "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it.".

Not Voltaire, but his biographer, Evelyn Beatrice Hall: Evelyn Beatrice Hall - Wikipedia

I'd apologize for my cheap pedantry, but I'm just practicing my free speech.

 

[HuskyNan]

I, too, am passionate...about free speech.

That said, it should be noted that participation on this site is a privilege, not a right, and therefore lacks First Amendment protections. However, short of liable and a handful of off-limit topics and themes, I believe posters should be free to be biased, ignorant, unreasonable and wrong. The best antidote to these views is not censorship but more speech, including your speech, RSHERMVIKES. Refute those views, don't silence them.

As Voltaire is often quoted, "I disapprove of what you say, but will defend to the death your right to say it."

Write on, RSHERMVIKES.

Often, it's not so often what a person says but how they say it. How a thought is expressed is made by deliberate choice most of the time. Someone who chooses to be deliberately provocative isnt exercising free speech, he's being a troll. Fortunately, that's not a big problem on the Boneyard but it is the reason mods will step into a conversation at times. It's not censorship; it's maintaining a civil conversation and it's what the majority of people here expect of us.

 

[Golden Husky]

Often, it's not so often what a person says but how they say it. How a thought is expressed is made by deliberate choice most of the time. Someone who chooses to be deliberately provocative isnt exercising free speech, he's being a troll. Fortunately, that's not a big problem on the Boneyard but it is the reason mods will step into a conversation at times. It's not censorship; it's maintaining a civil conversation and it's what the majority of people here expect of us.

Yeah, it's censorship. But this is not a free speech site so I accept that others will determine the standard of what is "provocative" (The mangled "Often it's not so often" provokes me) and what isn't. You won't catch me playing the provocateur.

 

[chrissaran]

There are many aspects of life that I admire: books, music and sports being 3 of my favorites. If my favorite band, Yes, puts out music or performs in concert, and it's not their best I will say so. The same thing goes for my favorite teams and actresses and actors. The New York Giants are my favorite football team, and they have been absolutely horrible. There's no other way to say it. From 11-5 to 2-12 is absolutely pathetic. They stink, but I am still a New York Giants fan.

 

[MSGRET]

I'm new to the BY, but love it because 99.99% of the time it is about the game, the team, the young ladies, is civil and informative. Unlike many other sites where if you say something that someone disagrees with your opinion they degrade you for it.

 

[bags27]

There are many aspects of life that I admire: books, music and sports being 3 of my favorites. If my favorite band, Yes, puts out music or performs in concert, and it's not their best I will say so. The same thing goes for my favorite teams and actresses and actors. The New York Giants are my favorite football team, and they have been absolutely horrible. There's no other way to say it. From 11-5 to 2-12 is absolutely pathetic. They stink, but I am still a New York Giants fan.

But, chrissaran, there is a bit of a difference here. Part of the BY community is actual UConn alumni/ae and/or CT residents. They are fans that are not so much consumers as they are effectively "owners". You've come to your loyalties by choice, and are free to change authors, rock groups, or NFL teams (all of whom are professionals, whereas a WCBB team is an amateur group of young people). Their alumni/ae fans are lifers and criticism of UConn WCBB can be a lot more hurtful for them. If you look at the boards of other WCBB teams that have been struggling, there is real pain among those who claim some "ownership" of the team.

 

[GoUconn7961]

I think we all can get frustrated at times because let's face it - we're pretty spoiled (which is great). But I really do get absolute joy from watching every group of young women play (even when I'm screaming at the TV to SHOOT!!). Enjoy all - I'm sure fans from other teams wish they had our "problems!" We are all different and that's what I like about lurking and commenting!

 

[caramel]

Between Tony C and me,there is always a rainbow with the team each and every year.It never bothers me if a poster wishes to challenge or dispute my post,and I welcome any feedback,whether it agrees with me or not.Keep on trucking,fellow posters.

 

[Bonpland]

As bags said in his treatise on being a Boneyard type fan, sport (should) occupy a sort of neutral ground when discussed among like minded individuals. Generally that is the case here on the Boneyard but occasionally one of the pack strays out of the demilitarized zone and into personal territory.

I for one am regularly thankful that the conversations here remains perched on fairly high ground. So much so that when, more than a year ago, someone replied to one of my posts that he/she wondered "if I knew anything at all about basketball" I was taken aback by the brusk nature of their response. Of course the answer to that query is that (despite having played the game and having had daughters who played the game) I know what most fans know, which is what I can glean from the outside as an observor.

I am of the same generation that comprizes a good number of us Boneyarders (growing up after WWII with an avid sports fan father who had spent almost four years in the South Pacific defending a future that would allow him to fill a small home with his own herd of children.) and what I remember about those early years, and the ones that would follow, was the high level of vitriol that accompannied most sports conversations. In New York you were either Yankee fans or Yankee haters. Fourth of July celebrations would break down into loud denounciations of the Yankees (our stock was all from Brooklyn and so our summers were spent rationalizing our own shortcomings and criticizing the Bronx Bombers) Of course New Englander's hated the Yankees for their own reasons and Yankee fans despised everything and everyone associated with the Red Sox unless one of Boston's players could be enticed into switching sides at which point somehow almost instantaneously they morphed from out of town villians into hometown heros.

All of that local anger (Islander fans and Ranger fans hating each other, the same with Giant and Jet fans, Yankee and Met followers and all of them hating any team from Bean Town) has soured me on talking about sport any longer except when I get the chance to retreat to the Boneyard. I'm thankful that the Mods help to keep things in check ( the recent speculations about potential transfers being a case in point). The fact is that most of the conversation here is civil and attempts to be constructive. Fans of other teams contribute sensibly and our team and its players are seen most often through rose colored glasses which keeps the conversation moving forward in a positive direction.

Like everyone else here I didn't notice Nan being anything but helpful with her guidance. I'm just grateful that she's there to keep us in line.

 

[Puppy Love]

I'm an avid fan and I read the Boneyard because no one in my family wants to talk about the Huskies as much as I do. For the most part, it is entertaining and fun. I am bothered when posters personally attack each other., but I ignore those. I'm not talking about spirited discussion; it's the posts that are clearly baiting that bug me. It really angers me when people comment on players/announcers/ex-players appearances and bodies and although I'd never complain, I do appreciate it when those threads are removed.

 

[Bigboote]

I want to add my voice to those commending Nan and the other mods. Fandom creates passionate people. This board is kept very well under control compared to some others, and the mods are to thank.

Everybody at work, including me, is passionate about our work. I have locked horns with every person I've worked with for any period of time, despite being very non-confrontational. I'll be shaking for a couple hours afterward. Get home, talk to my wife, have a couple of beers, and I move on. Arguing is just something passionate people do when they disagree. As long as it doesn't get personal, there's nothing wrong with it.

I think there are two ways in which people set themselves up for disappointment. Last year nobody had high expectations for the team, so everything they accomplished was above and beyond what we expected. This year a LOT of people had high expectations (This year's bench was a top-20 team, remember?). Folks who bought into that can't halp but be disappointed when everything doesn't go perfectly. The second way is people who have a single issue (Lou is the best. No Gabby is the best. . .), and if they can't convince everybody that's the case, then they get combative.

It's not that hard to learn whom not to engage with.

 

[BigBird]

Simply because someone disagrees with one of my posts, it doesn’t make that person my enemy. Neither is my enemy a young woman playing basketball for a program of which, for some vague reason, I disapprove. I might hope she misses every shot she takes, but that doesn’t disqualify her from the human family.

I think UConn WBB is important. That’s because...well, it is. But it’s not the most important thing. Yesterday, I learned that a friend, former colleague and mentor had died. He was the person who rescued me from a very dark time in my life. For me, he was a man who literally changed everything that followed.

So, when I write about UConn basketball, I may come off sounding professorial or important, but please trust me...I know what the truly “important” things are in my life.

I continue to be grateful for all the interesting people and perspectives to be found on this forum. What the members and our excellent mods have built here is a source of pleasure and insight.

Merry Christmas, and a Husky-Happy 2018.

-Steve