oldude
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I’m all ears. Please advise me how winning games by 20+ points, but getting outscored in the 2nd half can possibly be a meaningful statistic?
Some game thoughts - UCONN vs. Houston
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oldude
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Once more, Liv & Mikayla had a substantial stretch of PT vs Houston with 3 starters playing alongside them.
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Perhaps it's because of this 20 shot "strategy" that they appear to be forcing many of them. Doesn't seem like 20 per is so many, but if this focus on throwing up threes is contributing to the lack of dribble penetration, then maybe not such a good idea. They've got to keep defenders honest, otherwise they will be in their faces all the time. Dribble penetration has not been a strong point of UConn offenses over the years, but I thought that with Williams coming in maybe Geno was going to go in that direction a bit more. I just don't think that this team will , in the end, be able to compete with the better teams unless they get past the perimeter defenders. It's not like they don't have the players who are capable of doing that. JMO
JoePgh
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Beyond what has been stated above, an observation about the game that I would offer is that there were probably 3 or 4 occasions when Mikayla received a pass in the corner and was wide open, but instead of shooting (which would have been "in rhythm"), she either started a baseline drive or made another pass.
I understand why she did that; she lacks even a slightly reliable 3-point shot. But that means that there is a hole in the Uconn offense when she is on the floor, since opponents don't have to guard her when she is in a normal backcourt position.
That will, of necessity, limit her non-garbage time minutes against good teams. And I don't think she can fix this problem before the NCAA tournament.
I understand why she did that; she lacks even a slightly reliable 3-point shot. But that means that there is a hole in the Uconn offense when she is on the floor, since opponents don't have to guard her when she is in a normal backcourt position.
That will, of necessity, limit her non-garbage time minutes against good teams. And I don't think she can fix this problem before the NCAA tournament.
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Does Coombs have any offensive skills aside than charging to the basket from the left side?
One of the things that is limiting this team is that it's not as good a passing team as most of past UConn teams and because of that are not that patient on offense and take many more bad shots that we are used to seeing from a UConn team.
All in all it's a good team just not one that is a shoe-in for the final 4 unless there is a major improvement in different areas (defense, passing game, bench contribution, etc.)
One of the things that is limiting this team is that it's not as good a passing team as most of past UConn teams and because of that are not that patient on offense and take many more bad shots that we are used to seeing from a UConn team.
All in all it's a good team just not one that is a shoe-in for the final 4 unless there is a major improvement in different areas (defense, passing game, bench contribution, etc.)
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Geno put Camara in against Baylor to bang heads with Brown & Co. He praised her in the post-game presser, and said something to the effect that they needed to see more of her now. So much for that. I don't think she saw any time with the starters. She needs,and deserves, time with the starters. Some things just can't wait 'till next year. I just don't get it.
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oldude
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There was at least one starter on the floor the entire game, and there were two starters (Lou & Christyn) on the floor when Touly entered the game.
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Great post I felt the same way about the game.
Lyman never played against Shaq Oneal. I believe you may mean Scott Burrell. UCONN played LSU in the 1991 NCAA Tournament and Lyman wasn't part of that team.
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It shows to me the inability of the starters to keep the "pedal on the gas". After a GREAT 2nd quarter, I think most watching the game expected much of the same in the 3rd quarter. Instead UConn only won the quarter by 4 points.
In comparison, look at Notre Dame's win against Pittsburgh on Thursday. Notre Dame up 60-14 at half. Notre Dame comes out in the 3rd quarter and outscores them 25-10. That's keeping the pedal on the gas and then some.
Last season's team would have won today's 3rd quarter by 15+ points, maybe more.
It is obvious that this year's team is not as good as last years, but there is something missing other than talent. It looks to me that there is a lack of focus which leads to the turnovers and missed defensive assignments and there's just no flow. Can this be corrected? Sure. Will it? Maybe.
What does this all mean? To me it means that the inability to really put teams away gives other teams hope, which leads to much closer games and eventually an unexpected (aren't they all?) loss.
Like I said earlier. Let's see how the rest of the games play out to see if my stat foretells anything. I hope it doesn't.
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I wanted to see her playing with 4 starters, and I still do. 86 seconds with Samuelson and Williams was not exactly what I had in mind.
oldude
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If you had said that UConn has little or no depth, and the Houston game demonstrates that if the Huskies are forced to go to their bench in a big game, they may be in trouble, then I would agree.
Here’s why your argument doesn’t hold water. There are 200 minutes in a game to be divided up by 5 or more players. In the 1st half, UConn built a 20 point lead with the starters playing 98/100 minutes.
In the 2nd half, Geno substituted early and often, playing Liv and Mikayla for long minutes with the starters and also mixing in Kyla, Touly & Molly. The reserves played 36/100 minutes, and while it pains me to say so, UConn’s execution suffered whenever the reserves were in.
Last year’s team had Z coming off the bench. To pump up her minutes, Geno often left her on the floor through much of the 4th qtr, when she would dominate opponents mop up players with her 6’6” frame scoring repeatedly in the paint.
This is not about the starters taking their foot of the gas. In order for UConn to win it all this year, the 5 starters will have to do basically the same thing ND did last year: stay healthy, stay out of foul trouble and play almost all the minutes.
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oldude
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I don’t disagree. But to be clear, Touly played 5 minutes, all with Lou on the floor, and about a minute with Christyn also on the floor.
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We won... by 20. I can live with that. The kids need game time.
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You are right, ND blew out PITT. But, a Funny Thing... ND's production dropped every quarter from the 1st to the 4th... and they "lost the 4th quarter" to a Team that was clearly over matched. BUT, ND did win the game vs PITT... Just as UCONN won their game over Houston, and the only quarter lost was the 4th.
I admit when I coached Baseball, I told my players we were going to "Win every Inning"... whether it was a 7 or 9 inning game...if we won every inning, of course we win the game. In all my years of playing, coaching and watching sports, the only thing that mattered was the FINAL Score...
I'm sure We all get that you are not happy with the level of play that comes from the bench, none of us are, We all want it to be better. Today, Geno did what you suggest (almost as if he read your post)... he played ONO with 4 starters, and later played ONO and Mikayla with 3 starters. He kept a starter on the court pretty much all game. He can either keep the pedal to the metal and run up the score or, he can try to work the bench players into the rotation in a real game, with real referees, against real opponent, in their real gym, with real people in the stands and TV cameras recording/broadcasting every minute...the good, bad and ugly. I believe this was an attempt to help develop confidence and cohesion with the long run goal in mind...rather than burying a team when the only thing that really mattered was (1) winning the game and (2) getting bench players on the court with starters.
skilz
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I watched both the UConn and Baylor games today. Both teams were sluggish and looked tired. Hard fought games like the one these teams played against each other Thursday is exhausting. Girls need a little more rest. A win is a win.
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I’ll say this getting production from the Bench can be tough. ND’s bench has gotten a lot of production this season. And When it’s Nixon, Prohaska, Cosgrove, Patterson, and Vaughn on the floor. It can be really hard for them to score at times. Now when they are able to play with some of the Starters its a little easier for them. But in blow out games when the Bench is mainly playing with the Bench it can be a tough indicator. Like Nixon, Vaughn, Prohaska, and Patterson all show their ability much better when their playing with some starters. I’d say UCONN fans just need to be a little more patient. I’m sure there will be a couple games where the Bench plays well for Y’all.
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Curios as to why you chose 20+. I mean if you're going to do this, do it for 5+, 10+, 15+...etc. Also why 2nd half only? 1st half does not count? Break it down by quarters...oh wait, I can just look at the box scores...never mind.
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While All is NEVER accurate; I can say that some of the current critique's involve not having viable subs in big games, but in those 11NC' his rotation was 7 or 8 and at times more with subs that subbed well.(Discounting walk-on's ) Geno has rarely been without people speaking about his style, his coaching, his "colorful words". This is not new, may be a bit more open and louder. Way too often his "supporters" used the Number of NC's as a means to shut up people who had critiqued Geno's lack of use of his bench--even on the road to those NC's. All words of criticism are not wrong. I must admit most humans don't respond well to them.
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Your last paragraph says it all about this Uconn team The paragraph beginning In the second half--says volumes in what it does not say.
However, Geno doesn't have to do a thing--that is he prerogative. But in my less than John Wooden impression: He needs to play those not the 5 starters (call them what you will) early and often. Every bit of experience they get MAY (no guarantees) pay off in the games just prior to the FF/NC. If Olivia and Coombs can give Uconn 10 minutes each of REAL Div 1 BB the Chances for UC to win it all gets greater and greater. There is nothing more comfortable for a Fan than a good bench.
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I'm glad you don't disagree. To be clearer, Camara came in with 5:03 left in the game, Samuelson went out with 3:37 left. Not a big deal.
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PaHuskey and Nan-well said. Actually it was more like UConn lost the last 5-8 minutes when the deep bench subs didn't seem to know how to get near a basket. Remainder of game was a solid 25-30 point UConn lead.
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What sport do you think you are watching?
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I think everyone has some good points.
This team has been on the road a long time, and I think that has a lot to do with bad passing, timing, shooting.
Every time I see a "sub" come in early, I look for them to contribute something. They don't seem to able to contribute ONE thing.....frustrating. If they can't do it in the AAC games, how would they ever do it against a top ten team?
When we say they are not as good as some of our past teams, please remember, they are being compared to the best teams and players of ALL TIME in the history of WCB...not sure that is fair.
This team has been on the road a long time, and I think that has a lot to do with bad passing, timing, shooting.
Every time I see a "sub" come in early, I look for them to contribute something. They don't seem to able to contribute ONE thing.....frustrating. If they can't do it in the AAC games, how would they ever do it against a top ten team?
When we say they are not as good as some of our past teams, please remember, they are being compared to the best teams and players of ALL TIME in the history of WCB...not sure that is fair.
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For whatever reason, the "killer instinct"/"purpose"/"vengeance" factor has been greatly lacking with this group of players over the last few years. We saw it last year -- mediocre stretches at times, and of course the tight performance in the Final Four (again).
I don't know what the explanation is, but maybe the "practice til you can't get it wrong" mentality, combined with the personalities of the recent upperclassmen, doesn't produce enough of that kind of edge.
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Not sure if some of the posters who are negative about the subs results have ever played, coached or seriously analyzed a game. To start the game, UConn typically presses on defense and pushes the ball on offense. They try every defense and most creative offensive schemes. One of the goals at the end of games when up by 30 is not to run the score up. Geno is more than happy to take any points but he also runs a vanilla offense and defense. Trying to draw conclusions from the last 5-10 minutes of blow out games makes little sense.
Fightin Choke
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I think some posters are conflating three different issues: (1) trying not to run up the score, (2) giving the bench minutes and (3) giving the bench valuable minutes. In the Pitt @ND game mentioned above, ND starters played 79 minutes in the first half, so the bench players picked up 21 minutes. These were what I would call valuable bench minutes, as there were no more than 2 bench players on the floor at a time. These minutes are valuable because they simulate what would happen if a bench player needed to enter the game due to foul trouble or injury. In the third quarter, Muffet started to substitute more liberally, as the game was well in hand. Starters played only 19 of the available 50 minutes, and most of those 31 bench minutes occurred after a short period of all the starters playing to start the second half. These minutes were thus less valuable for the bench. The fourth quarter was Muffet's attempt to not run up the score, as the starters never saw the floor. These 50 bench minutes were NOT very valuable, as they did not simulate actual game situations, despite the fact they were during a game. For the game, the starters (98 minutes) actually played fewer minutes than the bench (102 minutes), but half of those minutes were pretty low quality.
Coaches of elite teams need to play the starters together a lot to develop the chemistry that teammates need to be successful against the top 10 teams on their schedule and the teams they face in the last two weekends of the NCAA tournament. But it's also important to develop the bench players enough that they are not a liability when they are forced to enter an important game due to foul trouble or injury. As far as not running up the score, UConn can do that with their starters still in the game by simply slowing down the pace (as they often do). But if you substitute the starters en masse your big lead will typically shrink. ND was leading by 30 against GTech yesterday with 5 minutes remaining and the lead shrunk to 21 with 4 and then 5 of the starters on the bench.
The other two reasons to play the bench benefit the team long term, but not very much in the current season: (1) develop players for future seasons and (2) keep players on the bench happy (so they don't transfer).
Coaches of elite teams need to play the starters together a lot to develop the chemistry that teammates need to be successful against the top 10 teams on their schedule and the teams they face in the last two weekends of the NCAA tournament. But it's also important to develop the bench players enough that they are not a liability when they are forced to enter an important game due to foul trouble or injury. As far as not running up the score, UConn can do that with their starters still in the game by simply slowing down the pace (as they often do). But if you substitute the starters en masse your big lead will typically shrink. ND was leading by 30 against GTech yesterday with 5 minutes remaining and the lead shrunk to 21 with 4 and then 5 of the starters on the bench.
The other two reasons to play the bench benefit the team long term, but not very much in the current season: (1) develop players for future seasons and (2) keep players on the bench happy (so they don't transfer).
oldude
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I had mixed up Lou & Christyn. So to be perfectly clear, Touly came in with exactly 4.56 left to play. Christyn was on the court for that entire period and Lou left with 3.36 left to play
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