So glad the Sox season is over

[60'sfan]

This was a tough year for me to watch and I rarely did. I never trusted the team. I felt all season that they were a disaster waiting to happen. Here is the good, the bad and the ugly as I saw it.

The good - They finally dumped Farrell. As a manager he was a good pitching coach. But they were a year too late. They should have given the job to Lovullo last year. Sale and Kimbrel were very good and better than I expected. Devers was a great addition. I thought he wasn't ready when they brought him up but I was wrong. Benintendi had a solid rookie year and will get better. Pomeranz was better than I expected too.

The bad - Mookie, Xander, and JBJ all had disappointing seasons. Why? I'm not sure but they should all be better next year. Pedroia has become fragile. Eduardo and Nunez may be fragile too. Not sure what Price has left as a starter either. Maybe he should stay in the pen although he is a very high priced reliever. Pretty sure that we paid way too much for Tyler Thornburg. Will he ever pitch for us?

The ugly - I really miss Theo. Dumbrowski did not do enough in the off-season last year and several GM's did a much better job than he did at the trade deadline. He needs to go. The offense has no power. Very hard to take after all those years of being a power-laden team. Hard to believe that a team can be this impotent in a park like Fenway. Hanley needs to go too. He is a veteran but not a team leader. His best days are behind him and when he gets down he is a terrible example to the young players.

 

[mauconnfan]

This was a tough year for me to watch and I rarely did. I never trusted the team. I felt all season that they were a disaster waiting to happen. Here is the good, the bad and the ugly as I saw it.

The good - They finally dumped Farrell. As a manager he was a good pitching coach. But they were a year too late. They should have given the job to Lovullo last year. Sale and Kimbrel were very good and better than I expected. Devers was a great addition. I thought he wasn't ready when they brought him up but I was wrong. Benintendi had a solid rookie year and will get better. Pomeranz was better than I expected too.

The bad - Mookie, Xander, and JBJ all had disappointing seasons. Why? I'm not sure but they should all be better next year. Pedroia has become fragile. Eduardo and Nunez may be fragile too. Not sure what Price has left as a starter either. Maybe he should stay in the pen although he is a very high priced reliever. Pretty sure that we paid way too much for Tyler Thornburg. Will he ever pitch for us?

The ugly - I really miss Theo. Dumbrowski did not do enough in the off-season last year and several GM's did a much better job than he did at the trade deadline. He needs to go. The offense has no power. Very hard to take after all those years of being a power-laden team. Hard to believe that a team can be this impotent in a park like Fenway. Hanley needs to go too. He is a veteran but not a team leader. His best days are behind him and when he gets down he is a terrible example to the young players.

Dumbrowski did okay if the guys you mentioned had repeat years and I guess he shouldn't have assumed. None did although Mookie finished pretty strong, they had a pretty good year considering those guys had down years (or did they we don't know based on 1 prior). Farrell was aided mostly because of the automatic W when Sale threw the glove on the mound but I mean Dave D did make that move and it was pretty big right?

Farrell? First time ever they won 2 division titles in a row and fired? I get it but it says a lot about expectations huh?

 

[intlzncster]

Dumbrowski did okay if the guys you mentioned had repeat years and I guess he shouldn't have assumed. None did although Mookie finished pretty strong, they had a pretty good year considering those guys had down years (or did they we don't know based on 1 prior). Farrell was aided mostly because of the automatic W when Sale threw the glove on the mound but I mean Dave D did make that move and it was pretty big right?

Farrell? First time ever they won 2 division titles in a row and fired? I get it but it says a lot about expectations huh?

Expectations in Boston, especially among the media--which drives public opinion, are always through the roof. I mean, Belichick regularly gets skewered by mouth breathers. Bill Freakin Belichick.

Farrell did have those 2 titles, can't take that away. But anyone watching them regularly could tell he just doesn't have it. He's like the Bob Diaco-light of BB managers.

As far as the OP goes, firing Farrell only does so much. The team has definitive holes that no manager can compensate for. They badly need a power guy at the 4 spot. The hole left by Ortiz's presence was never remotely filled. They need a Judge. A team with that little power won't win a world series unless they have 4 Chris Sales.

I can't even fault Dombrowski much. I mean, seeing starting pitching was an issue, he went out and got the best free agent starter available, which hasn't worked out (especially given salary. He also added a high upside gut he was familiar with (Porcello), who won a Cy Young last year, but unfortunately regressed this year. He traded for a starter who everyone thought was soft and trash (Pomerantz), who ended up a solid number 2 starter this year. Then last year, he signed the best free agent starter again, and also one of the best pitchers in baseball (Sale). Sale unequivocally delivered, although was let down by Farrell giving him too many innings. All those Ks were nice, but it hurt him at the end.

Put together a very solid bullpen, that was good even while being ravaged by injury.

He did all this while keeping Betts, Bogaerts, Bradley, Benitendi, and Devers. They didn't have a strong year, but I expect them to bounce back next year. They need some power protection though.

What more could you ask out of Dombrowski? Sometimes things don't work out.

 

[FartMan69]

I’m still pretty confident in Price as a starter if he can stay healthy. Outside of his disasterous first 7 starts in a Sox uniform his ERA and K:9 is pretty much spot on with his career numbers. The core of the lineup all had down years and would benefit greatly with a power bat who isn’t Hanley. The 3-5 in the rotation needs to be solidified with either a healthy Price or a solid FA starter at a reasonable cost and although Farrell wasn’t the worst in the league it was obvious this group needed a new voice to get them to the next level and hopefully DD can finally get who he thinks is the right guy for this group.(IMO should be Cora)

 

[intlzncster]

I’m still pretty confident in Price as a starter if he can stay healthy. Outside of his disasterous first 7 starts in a Sox uniform his ERA and K:9 is pretty much spot on with his career numbers. The core of the lineup all had down years and would benefit greatly with a power bat who isn’t Hanley. The 3-5 in the rotation needs to be solidified with either a healthy Price or a solid FA starter at a reasonable cost and although Farrell wasn’t the worst in the league it was obvious this group needed a new voice to get them to the next level and hopefully DD can finally get who he thinks is the right guy for this group.(IMO should be Cora)

I agree on Price. I'm not writing him off. Just that it hasn't worked out overall relative to contract/expectations so far. The injury was big obviously. But he's getting older, and Farrell put a lot of innings on his arm last year. That needs to be managed going forward. Sox need one more quality starter. You can't be quite what you are going to get in Pomerantz and Porcello. Their top side is good, but they haven't shown that consistency year in year out. For a pitching coach, Farrell sure struggles to manage innings of his starters.

 

[Excalibur]

They really need a power threat in the middle of the lineup, but they're also running out of trade assets. Dombrowski's MO is to trade minor leaguers for established players, but I'm glad he didn't take the bait at the trade deadline this year as they were not winning regardless.

Bogaerts and JBJ are what they are at this point. JBJ is purely a streak hitter -- he'll hit line drives all over the yard for two weeks and then go dead silent for a month, and play superior defense at all times. Bogaerts will hit .280 with 12-15 homers in a typical year -- pretty good vs. today's shortstop pool but not anything spectacular.

The big question is whether Mookie Betts is the player he was in 2015-16 or the player he was this year. Advanced stats show that the 20015-16 version is closer to reality, and that he was seriously unlucky this year (.268 BABiP is insanely low, particularly a guy who should be getting his fair share of infield hits). His strikeout rate wasn't up much, and his walk rate increased significantly.

 

[intlzncster]

They really need a power threat in the middle of the lineup, but they're also running out of trade assets. Dombrowski's MO is to trade minor leaguers for established players, but I'm glad he didn't take the bait at the trade deadline this year as they were not winning regardless.

Bogaerts and JBJ are what they are at this point. JBJ is purely a streak hitter -- he'll hit line drives all over the yard for two weeks and then go dead silent for a month, and play superior defense at all times. Bogaerts will hit .280 with 12-15 homers in a typical year -- pretty good vs. today's shortstop pool but not anything spectacular.

The big question is whether Mookie Betts is the player he was in 2015-16 or the player he was this year. Advanced stats show that the 20015-16 version is closer to reality, and that he was seriously unlucky this year (.268 BABiP is insanely low, particularly a guy who should be getting his fair share of infield hits). His strikeout rate wasn't up much, and his walk rate increased significantly.

I think Bogaerts still has upside. He's yet to hit his prime. Both Betts and Bogaerts, would be helped tremendously by a power hitter in the middle of the lineup. It was supposed to be Hanley, but it looks like he requires that bat to protect him as well. So obviously not the answer. Power bat is the biggest need for next year, followed closely by a serviceable 2/3 starter.

 

[FartMan69]

I agree on Price. I'm not writing him off. Just that it hasn't worked out overall relative to contract/expectations so far. The injury was big obviously. But he's getting older, and Farrell put a lot of innings on his arm last year. That needs to be managed going forward. Sox need one more quality starter. You can't be quite what you are going to get in Pomerantz and Porcello. Their top side is good, but they haven't shown that consistency year in year out. For a pitching coach, Farrell sure struggles to manage innings of his starters.

Well outside of Kershaw, Sale and Sherzer that contract can’t really be lived up to especially in the eyes of the Boston fans/media. We needed a top of the rotation guy and that was the price and outside of his horrid start he’s been plenty good enough to be a solid #2 especially with our ace being one of the best in the game. Porcello needs to realize he’s a sinker ball pitcher and stop falling in love with the 4 seam because clearly the guy can’t work up in the zone without giving up piss missles.

 

[Waquoit]

Losing Farrell will do wonders for this team. The Sox now have to go out and find a Terry Francona-type manager. No Varitek, please.

 

[The Viking]

How the hell can anyone complain about Dombrowski?
I get that the Travis Shaw for thornburg deal backfired but at the time Shaw was coming off a brutal second half and thornburg was a lights out reliever. Who here expected Shaw's season and thornburg's injury?
And yeah Price's deal is huge but at the time we were desperate for starting pitching and again there were no signs of serious regression or injury to Price. The options were empty the farm for a Sale or keep te kids and sign Price and use the kids for development or trade (which he did trading for Sale later to go along with Price).
He has brought in off the top of my head Price, Sale, Pomeranz, Kimbrel, Carson Smith, Addison reed and Thornburg. That's a pretty damn impressive haul. Of course He has burned by injuries to three of them.
Also it's not his fault that Ortiz retired at a time ownership told him to stay under the threshold. If the young kids did what they were supposed to do te Sox win close to 100 this year.
He also refuses to give up Benintendi and Devers in the Sale deal, giving up Moncada instead.
Honestly it's hard to do a much better job then him with the crap MLB roster he had to work with when he came here. He traded the right prospects for very good/great MLB talent and flexed his money when he could

 

[Danzz]

They really need a power threat in the middle of the lineup, but they're also running out of trade assets. Dombrowski's MO is to trade minor leaguers for established players, but I'm glad he didn't take the bait at the trade deadline this year as they were not winning regardless.

Bogaerts and JBJ are what they are at this point. JBJ is purely a streak hitter -- he'll hit line drives all over the yard for two weeks and then go dead silent for a month, and play superior defense at all times. Bogaerts will hit .280 with 12-15 homers in a typical year -- pretty good vs. today's shortstop pool but not anything spectacular.

The big question is whether Mookie Betts is the player he was in 2015-16 or the player he was this year. Advanced stats show that the 20015-16 version is closer to reality, and that he was seriously unlucky this year (.268 BABiP is insanely low, particularly a guy who should be getting his fair share of infield hits). His strikeout rate wasn't up much, and his walk rate increased significantly.

A power RH hitting outfielder. As much as I like Bradley he is expendable as Betts or Benitendi can play CF. As you said Bradley is streaky and doesn't make enough contact.
I look for Betts and Bogarts to rebound and the pitching is good. Even with the down years the Sox did win the AL East so it isn't like Dombrowski is starting from scratch.
They also need to do a better job managing innings for Sale and Pomeranz.

 

[60'sfan]

I can and have complained about Dumbrowski. The team had some obvious holes coming into this season and he did not do enough to fill them. Ortiz was retiring and he made that pretty clear. He was a huge part of the offense and a solid dugout presence. He even told management that they needed to do something and even suggested they sign Edwin Encarnacion. (38 home runs, 107 RBI and an OBP of .377). He did nothing to replace Ortiz. They had a huge hole at third base and rather then try to acquire someone, he trusted the position to the Panda. He even traded away a great backup at both third and first in Travis Shaw. (31 home runs, 101 RBI, .349 OBP).

At mid-season when it became obvious to most that the team had a severe power shortage he picked up Eduardo Nunez (whom I do like) a utility infielder with very little power and a reputation as a poor fielder. Eduardo did provide some spark but leg injuries got the best of him. They also picked up Addison Reed, a solid relief pitcher who could be set up man. But at the time, the Sox had one of the best bullpens in baseball.

In the meantime the competition made themselves much stronger. The Yankees picked up Todd Frazier, Sunny Gray, Jaime Garcia, Tommy Kahnie, and Dave Robertson without losing any key players. The Astros went out and picked up Justin Verlander (enough said). The Diamond Backs picked up J. D. Martinez. (45 home runs, 104 RBI, .376 OBP). And even the Dodgers who were over-loaded at every position picked up Yu Darvish.

You can argue that he could not have foreseen the bad years that many of the Sox had and I get that. But he is being paid the big bucks to do just that. I am happy that he let Farrell go but even there he was a year too late. He should have given the job to Luvullo.

 

[G0UCONN]

It is not panic time. We won back to back AL East titles with 93-69 records and did it this year with Price spitting the bit for most of it and basically everyone underperforming.

They need a big bat. DH/1B likely. Everything else is in place.

As to their young guys, to me Xander is good but is most replaceable. Hate his swing. Decent not great glove. I would not break bank for him unless things change...

 

[60'sfan]

It is not panic time. We won back to back AL East titles with 93-69 records and did it this year with Price spitting the bit for most of it and basically everyone underperforming.

They need a big bat. DH/1B likely. Everything else is in place.

As to their young guys, to me Xander is good but is most replaceable. Hate his swing. Decent not great glove. I would not break bank for him unless things change...

Agree with you on Xander. Two years ago when he hit .320 I thought he was going to be a perennial all-star but something happened. I also agree that he is at best an adequate fielder. But I think I'd give him another year to see if he can back on track. He did have a hand injury which makes it tough to hit.

The guy I worry about is JBJ. He is a great outfielder but I was hoping he would give us more offense. On a team with a lot of hitters you can afford Jackie but on this team not so much. With his speed, maybe he should learn to bunt.

If they can find some power hitting outfielders and Pedroia remains fragile, perhaps they can move Mookie to second base.

 

[G0UCONN]

Agree with you on Xander. Two years ago when he hit .320 I thought he was going to be a perennial all-star but something happened. I also agree that he is at best an adequate fielder. But I think I'd give him another year to see if he can back on track. He did have a hand injury which makes it tough to hit.

The guy I worry about is JBJ. He is a great outfielder but I was hoping he would give us more offense. On a team with a lot of hitters you can afford Jackie but on this team not so much. With his speed, maybe he should learn to bunt.

If they can find some power hitting outfielders and Pedroia remains fragile, perhaps they can move Mookie to second base.

Can live with JBJ bat his glove is so good. But he needs to be a bit better at the plate. Not much of a threat at all after a great all around year last season.

 

[Danzz]

Can live with JBJ bat his glove is so good. But he needs to be a bit better at the plate. Not much of a threat at all after a great all around year last season.

The Sox are probably have to trade somebody to get a power hitter and I mentioned Bradley because he is expendable. Betts can play CF without too much of a fall off and I'm one who believes that JBJ may be the best CF in the AL.

 

[The Viking]

60's your critique of Dombrowski is wrong in two senses - he could not have gone out and gotten an Encarnacion because he was told to stay under the luxury tax threshhold so he could re-set all the luxury taxes to 0.

Second, our once great farm system has been decimated thru promotion or trades. There was no way they were going to match the Yankees offer for Robertson, Frazier, and Kahnle.

Nunez and Reed were two very good acquisitions for basically nothing. He can't be banged on for those.

 

[The Viking]

The Sox are probably have to trade somebody to get a power hitter and I mentioned Bradley because he is expendable. Betts can play CF without too much of a fall off and I'm one who believes that JBJ may be the best CF in the AL.

I have a feeling they are going to push hard for J.D. Martinez in LF and perhaps trade JBJ, move Benintendi to CF. Or ask J.D. to play some 1B and DH Hanley to keep him healthy. Or vice versa. But we'll see. What would Theo give up for JBJ? He was the one who drafted him. An outfield with JBJ and Heyward is defensively outstanding.

 

[Danzz]

I have a feeling they are going to push hard for J.D. Martinez in LF and perhaps trade JBJ, move Benintendi to CF. Or ask J.D. to play some 1B and DH Hanley to keep him healthy. Or vice versa. But we'll see. What would Theo give up for JBJ? He was the one who drafted him. An outfield with JBJ and Heyward is defensively outstanding.

Is Martinez a free agent?

 

[Waquoit]

Dombrowski has done a fine job for the Sox. Sacking Farrell was the latest good move. I'm sure moves will be made to plug the holes.

 

[The Viking]

Is Martinez a free agent?

Yes
Expect the contract to be upwards of 5/100 depending on how many teams get involved.
He's not a good defensive player, he's suited for an AL team (shifting to DH at some point). Word is Arizona loves him but I don't know how he can play in the NL for five years unless he plays 1B and they already have one.
The guy put up a .690 slugging percentage this year. He's exactly what the Red Sox need. They aren't going to get that via a trade unless they subtract talent from their major league team, which defeats the purpose.