Shout out to the refs in the UConn-DePaul game

[HuskyNan]

Not me, it was Geno. He lauded the zebras, saying they reffed the contest ”like a basketball game rather than a girls’ basketball game. It was refreshing”. He did it in the postgame presser.

I figure the refs get plenty of criticism when they mess up so they deserve kudos when they ref a good game.

 

[Bone Dog]

I was wondering what he had in mind with this. Is it that they were judicious? They didn’t whistle too many touch fouls, and they let the wrestling match between Aaliyah and Morrow go largely unwhistled too. And they didn’t call anything on that little scrum between Lou and Morrow. Jorie Allen may have gotten one phantom foul called on her. But otherwise, the refs didn’t decide the outcome. I hope the rematch in Chicago is reffed as well.

 

[Big Mick]

It seemed like every call went UCONN's way. Every coach whose team received that treatment would applaud and throw kudos. Granted, DePaul were a bit aggressive; but...

 

[TheGOAT23]

I was wondering what he had in mind with this. Is it that they were judicious? They didn’t whistle too many touch fouls, and they let the wrestling match between Aaliyah and Morrow go largely unwhistled too. And they didn’t call anything on that little scrum between Lou and Morrow. Jorie Allen may have gotten one phantom foul called on her. But otherwise, the refs didn’t decide the outcome. I hope the rematch in Chicago is reffed as well.

That was a phantom call on Jorie. I had to shake my head on that one. Overall, they did a good job.

 

[Beemer]

I watched the replay and yes, IMO the refs just let them play and yes, I'd love to see more of that. Calling every little thing wrecks the flow of the game. If it drives me crazy I can only imagine how the players & coaches feel about it.

 

[Next 12]

Give credit to the Refs as they run up and down the floor just as much as the players. Good or bad , they are necessary to regulate the game clock, make important decisions about intentional fouls and make one teams fans happy and the other teams fans ticked off. What would the game be like without them. GO REFS!!!!!

 

[HopJim]

Good refs usually have a conversation with the players if there is a scrum starting as with Morrow and Edwards (and most of the UConn team) throughout the game. Would be interested to know if this took place. Glad refs let this battle take its own course, but it was on the verge of escalating.

 

[Conndog]

I was wondering what he had in mind with this. Is it that they were judicious? They didn’t whistle too many touch fouls, and they let the wrestling match between Aaliyah and Morrow go largely unwhistled too. And they didn’t call anything on that little scrum between Lou and Morrow. Jorie Allen may have gotten one phantom foul called on her. But otherwise, the refs didn’t decide the outcome. I hope the rematch in Chicago is reffed as well.

I enjoyed the words of “encouragement “ from Lou to Morrow when she got up from the floor- pardon her French!

 

[UcMiami]

I thought it was well reffed as well. There is a thread on the general board about this game and others and posted the following:
The physical play has been around for ever. But I would say Uconn/DePaul wasn't particularly bad - Morrow and Edwards are both physical post players and they were going at each other pretty hard but not in a dirty way and the refs kept a good lid on it with the way they called the game - not a lots of fouls called overall, but they called the 'right' ones to keep the game civil.

We have seen what feels to me a unusual amount of really bad situations on court in women's games this year and it seems in some of these the coaches have poured gasoline on the flames that the refs failed to control to start with. Not an easy situation for the refs when two teams get started, but it is usual a failure to call a few hard fouls early that lets things get started.

I don't think it is the tickytack fouls, hand checks and such that need to be called, but the grabbing and banging on off ball cutters that start escalating the frustrations and retaliations that need to be watched and called. It is what most of the coaches most people complain about teach their players to slow down better players, and what star players suffer from most - Griner vs. Louisville being a clear example. Hack a Shaq being the pro equivalent.

 

[hookshot]

Give credit to the Refs as they run up and down the floor just as much as the players. Good or bad , they are necessary to regulate the game clock, make important decisions about intentional fouls and make one teams fans happy and the other teams fans ticked off. What would the game be like without them. GO REFS!!!!!

I was at the just previous game against Butler and thought that was the best reffed game I've seen this year (two men and a women). My seats are near the exit portal and I was going to give them a shout out but they, understandably (LOL), move too fast

 

[90BSEE]

I don't think it is the tickytack fouls, hand checks and such that need to be called, but the grabbing and banging on off ball cutters that start escalating the frustrations and retaliations that need to be watched and called. It is what most of the coaches most people complain about teach their players to slow down better players, and what star players suffer from most - Griner vs. Louisville being a clear example. Hack a Shaq being the pro eqequivalent.

This is exactly right. I would add grabbing and banging on on ball drives into the paint. It seems like many refs only call fouls when a player is shooting/elevating. When the refs don't call these fouls, players turn the ball over and stop driving. Then we hear fans blame the players for not driving more to draw fouls.

I would also add grabbing and banging on people coming off screens, both on and off ball.

Basically, they need to call all restriction of movement via grabbing and banging. The problem is that these are often done in a crowd and it happens so much that the refs are hesitant to call it and foul players out.

When you see our offense come to a screeching halt, THIS is often why.

 

[BBallF]

I have been posting here for years that there is an embedded sexism in the officiating in womens' basketball that stems from a philosophy that goes something like this "They are only girls. Let them play. They can't hurt each other." The problem with that is that they are bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic, and more physical than they have ever been and when the referees have that subconscious prejudice, it leads to injuries. They have to control the game, let the players know what a foul is and what isn't and disregard incidental contact but call all fouls, even slight, that affect a shot.

I thought they did that to large extent in the DePaul game. They got the play with Morrow and Lou right which was emblematic of the game. Sure, they missed some fouls and perhaps had bad judgment on others, but it is a fluid sport with 10 bodies crammed into a tight space at all different speeds so perfection isn't happening.

There is a fine line between allowing incidental physical contact and allowing all physical contact. By contrast, look at the Notre Dame game. The refs did not control that game and when you don't, it encourages more and more of the same and it's not basketball. Womens' basketball is the last vestige of the pure sport. Back doors, inside cuts, unselfish passing, motion offenses with several options, and the like. Well officiated games preserve and nurture it. Poorly officiated games diminish it.

 

[oldude]

The refs let the players play. So we were all treated to big time physical matchup between Aaliyah & Morrow that was worth the price of admission.

 

[Cornell Lt]

Catch 22 on this. In my mind letting them play with some contact is good for the sport of women's basketball, however there is a very fine line between aggressive and dirty play and I'm not 100% sure that the officials assigned to women's basketball are the best at drawing the line. And just imagine if player injuries increase as a result of the increased physicality.

 

[Geew1992]

This is exactly right. I would add grabbing and banging on on ball drives into the paint. It seems like many refs only call fouls when a player is shooting/elevating. When the refs don't call these fouls, players turn the ball over and stop driving. Then we hear fans blame the players for not driving more to draw fouls.

I would also add grabbing and banging on people coming off screens, both on and off ball.

Basically, they need to call all restriction of movement via grabbing and banging. The problem is that these are often done in a crowd and it happens so much that the refs are hesitant to call it and foul players out.

When you see our offense come to a screeching halt, THIS is often why.

LMAO........... cause our team doesn't do any of this!

 

[MD#12Fan]

It’s not about making calls on this or that and not making calls on this or that. It’s about enforcing the rules of the game. And a huge thing for me is whether one player has an unfair advantage over another player regarding the rules. Examples of that is the concept of verticality and guarding position by a defender.
Hand checking is not allowed. Unfair advantage to the defender. Hands and arms not straight up when challenging a shot, unfair advantage to the defender. Extra step by ball handler or carry, unfair advantage to offensive player. Push off or arm extended to ward off defender is an unfair advantage to the offensive player. IMO it is fair and part of the game to inhibit cutters as a defender by “striking“ them with your arm tucked assuming you get to the space first. The defender has a right to take up that space.
My petpeeve with the women’s game is all of the falling down that happens. Sometimes flopping and sometimes just losing balance. Remember when AE used to fall down 5X a game. It‘s hazardous. All of these ankle and knee injuries occurring and players are laying all over the place all the time. AG taking it to the hole while stepping around 2 defenders that have fallen down. You’re shouldn’t be allowed to go inside if you’re just going to fall down. Foul or technical. Keep your feet. If you’re off-balance, well, get on balance or stay out of the lane.
You don’t fall down while setting a pick. You hold your ground or even move if need be. You don’t fall down. The object is to impede the defender not to draw a foul. These are strong women with sturdy bases. Stay on your feet!!

 

[Bone Dog]

LMAO........... cause our team doesn't do any of this!

I’d say we don’t do the slapping fouls, and we do very little of the bumping of cutters. We screen aggressively and get called on it often. But that’s different from the bumping in the lane. We don’t play the flopping game, for the most part… though there have been moments….

Our physical game is about how hard we play and not what we do to the other team. It’s about screening and boxing out, and we sometimes forget to do the latter. But mainly it’s about running the floor really hard, and knowing where to be at any moment.

 

[BBallF]

The refs let the players play. So we were all treated to big time physical matchup between Aaliyah & Morrow that was worth the price of admission.

You are right. Incredibly enjoyable."Let them play" but they also called appropriate fouls that affected the game which is what they should do. One example was Morrow's third foul. She came down with her hand on the shooting arm. It wasn't hard or fast but it altered the shot. You can throw a shot off with one finger. The other foul was the charging foul on Morrow. It sent Aaliyah to the ground but she was heading there anyway but the replay showed that she lowered her shoulder. Could have gone either way but it was a definite "call something" play. Conversely, the bumping and positioning exchange with Aaliyah and Morrow was inconsequential and incidental to what they were both trying to do, but that's what happens when you have two physical players of All American stature going head to head, and I do mean All American for both of them.

 

[MD#12Fan]

I’d say we don’t do the slapping fouls, and we do very little of the bumping of cutters. We screen aggressively and get called on it often. But that’s different from the bumping in the lane. We don’t play the flopping game, for the most part… though there have been moments….

Our physical game is about how hard we play and not what we do to the other team. It’s about screening and boxing out, and we sometimes forget to do the latter. But mainly it’s about running the floor really hard, and knowing where to be at any moment.

Good points!
I think we are playing a tougher style of play this year. Screening, cutting, slashing to the hole, hitting the glass, tough man to man defense. Our defense isn’t super extended, so in the relatively tight space we’re playing strong.
”Striking” a cutter IMO is part of the game. It’s the idea that the defender has as much right to that lane area as you do. I was taught in college, that defense is about dictating to the offense, what you’re going to permit them to do. It’s not the idea of following them around. ‘I‘m sorry but I am not going to let you go across that lane, I am going to step in front of that cut. I will let you go behind, not over the top.” No grabbing, no contact causing an unfair advantage, no extended arm, contact with a balanced, defensive stance and a tucked arm.

 

[UcMiami]

I have been posting here for years that there is an embedded sexism in the officiating in womens' basketball that stems from a philosophy that goes something like this "They are only girls. Let them play. They can't hurt each other." The problem with that is that they are bigger, faster, stronger, more athletic, and more physical than they have ever been and when the referees have that subconscious prejudice, it leads to injuries. They have to control the game, let the players know what a foul is and what isn't and disregard incidental contact but call all fouls, even slight, that affect a shot.

I am not sure this is really true any longer as you see some of the same issues surface with the men's college game. It is a delicate balance that refs have to navigate and part of the problem in the women's game is that the best refs move up the ladder with the women's game being a 'lesser' job than the men's.

With the stoppage in the DePaul game, while the fans and announcers were focused on Lou's fall at the baseline, I think the refs were actually focus a few seconds earlier where Morrow forced Lou off her when she was trying to cause a jump ball - there was a violent movement by Morrow but I couldn't actually determine a foul, certainly not an elbow but maybe a shoulder? As no foul had been called in real time, and there was not any evidence to confirm a flagrant foul it came to nothing, but also gave both teams a 'quiet time' to let tempers settle.

 

[AmeriConn]

I enjoyed the words of “encouragement “ from Lou to Morrow when she got up from the floor- pardon her French!

Apparently a universal two words.

 

[Cornell Lt]

I loved the emotion Lou showed and the words she used

 

[MD#12Fan]

You are right. Incredibly enjoyable."Let them play" but they also called appropriate fouls that affected the game which is what they should do. One example was Morrow's third foul. She came down with her hand on the shooting arm. It wasn't hard or fast but it altered the shot. You can throw a shot off with one finger. The other foul was the charging foul on Morrow. It sent Aaliyah to the ground but she was heading there anyway but the replay showed that she lowered her shoulder. Could have gone either way but it was a definite "call something" play. Conversely, the bumping and positioning exchange with Aaliyah and Morrow was inconsequential and incidental to what they were both trying to do, but that's what happens when you have two physical players of All American stature going head to head, and I do mean All American for both of them.

I want to hold players accountable for all of this falling around that happens. IMO if you say AE was going down anyway on that play, then she should be accountable for unnecessary falling. Sounds crazy I know. People are getting hurt. Example- AG driving to the hole over 2 flailing bodies, AE falling into Azzi causing her injury. Bodies everywhere. Players need to stay attached to the ground with both feet. Exceptions- diving for loose balls, taking a legit charge, and legit getting blasted. Get all this flopping and flailing out of the game. Delay of game, change of possession, possession arrow, something.
Should have been a foul on Lou when she tried to tie up Morrow. You can’t go through the player. Wait for her to do something then take it away. Tie her up if she puts the ball in front of you. Why was Morrow on the floor to begin with? Exactly. Flopping and flailing. Whistle. Change of possession. 2 players get to avoid a scrum and possible injury. Morrow learns not to flail around on the floor.
These women are hosses. No offense. Stay off the floor. Wanta pick a fight with Nika. I didn’t think so.

 

[EricLA]

The other thing I didn't see mentioned in this thread was the flopping and acting. In Q1, Morrow tried that on at least 3 occasions that I caught. May have been others. The refs did not bite. So guess what? She stopped.

Thankfully UCONN has players like Patterson and Edwards who are physically strong enough to really bang if needed. Aubrey is so athletic that they can't catch her to foul her LOL. And Lou and Nika won't back down from anyone. Neither will Dorka. And you know what? Amari was not afraid at all to mix it up either in the post. I thought she gave REALLY good minutes, and against a very physical Depaul team, this is as good as I think she's looked.

I know we are talking about the reffing, but quick note on Ines - she's MUCH faster than I thought. One of her baskets came from turning on the after-burners and sprinting down the right side of the court with the ball, past everyone, for a layup. I had never really noticed her athleticsm before.

I love how UCONN teaches kids to defend without fouling, but I also love, now, how it seems that if teams think they can be uber-physical with us and get away with it, they have another thought coming. And circling back to the refs, it seems in this game, the entire team figured out pretty fast what was a foul, and what was not, and played accordingly.

 

[HuskyNan]

I want to hold players accountable for all of this falling around that happens. IMO if you say AE was going down anyway on that play, then she should be accountable for unnecessary falling. Sounds crazy I know. People are getting hurt. Example- AG driving to the hole over 2 flailing bodies, AE falling into Azzi causing her injury. Bodies everywhere. Players need to stay attached to the ground with both feet. Exceptions- diving for loose balls, taking a legit charge, and legit getting blasted. Get all this flopping and flailing out of the game. Delay of game, change of possession, possession arrow, something.
Should have been a foul on Lou when she tried to tie up Morrow. You can’t go through the player. Wait for her to do something then take it away. Tie her up if she puts the ball in front of you. Why was Morrow on the floor to begin with? Exactly. Flopping and flailing. Whistle. Change of possession. 2 players get to avoid a scrum and possible injury. Morrow learns not to flail around on the floor.
These women are hosses. No offense. Stay off the floor. Wanta pick a fight with Nika. I didn’t think so.

NCAA makes flopping a technical foul in new rule change

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