Seton HeII Post Game Thread

[Bonamassa]

I don't think yesterday was an NCAA Tournament game. Not sure but we may still be in it. That said, I was really, really pissed yesterday.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Perno had his limitations but one of the biggest was how poorly equipped UConn was regarding recruiting in that era.

Read what JC said it was like trying to recruit at UConn when he got here. No academic counselling program, poor facilities, and no basic support for recruiting and retaining players.

Because he was a new hire he got things changed and improved significantly but one example he gave was how the Athletic Department couldn't accept collect calls from recruits who might be calling to accept a scholarship because the state didn't allow collect calls to be accepted. If I recall correctly, he got the Alumni Association to fund a phone line for that purpose.

Please don't try to defend Perno.

Coaching games alone I cannot think of anything worse than the opening round loss to St John's in the 1982 Big East tournament (anyone who followed the team then knows what happened. I watched that debacle live at the Civic Center.

Perno spent nearly a year trying to convince Rod Foster to change his mind about UCon when Foster told him upfront that he was only heading somewhere a lot bigger than UConn. In that time he completely ignored John Bagley. Mike McKay begged Perno to offer him but Perno wasn't interested (the line about academics was damage control. Look at where Bagley ended up and who Perno brought overr the next few years.). Then, in a knee jerk reaction to Bagley's freshman year, he brought in a pair of undersized guards (Hobbs & Giscombe) who weren't bad players, but made it impossible to go after Michael Adams the following year.

 

[Palatine]

We have the look of a team that needs a huge BET.

 

[RuffRuff]

Didn’t think the JUCO route was even a thing anymore for high majors. Pearl getting creative in keeping his team 24 years old.

 

[djct1999]

Someone had mentioned that Marquette and Creighton are no good this year, so our wins mean nothing. Now they are good, but we were lucky. Can you guys get together and get your arguments aligned?

It took a Seton Hall player who shoots 25% from the line, a brick that bounced 2 feet in the air before rimming through the net, on the first of a 1 and 1. The same player fires a bank shot from the foul line on his second attempt of the 1 and 1. But yea, UConn was lucky when they beat M and C.

I will make it simple…..according to the board; All our wins were luck and all our losses are on the coaches and the fact nowell isn’t playing.

 

[UCan3]

It's not lack of discipline so much as lack of competency. You've got to be able to inbound the ball. That's a core competency issue.

While I agree, there is something more than just being competent IMO.

They lacked drive, will, and mental clarity at a key moment of the game.

There is something deeply wrong with the team psyche.

A rec league team an inbound the ball better than they did.

My point is that this memory of the game should never be forgotten and a reminder that just because we’re UConn… Just because we won 2 championships, other teams don’t care. We’re just a team that must go out and win by outhustling the other team. This game and the way we lost it, still has me in schock!

 

[superjohn]

AK was saying it was the players lack of urgency. This is far from thre first time this season they've played down to the competition. Somehow in your eyes the players are robots who perform exactly as they are coached and it's always on the coach when this happens.

I wish that were the case as we would have won it all in 2006 if things worked that way. This team doesn't always fight, doesn't always seem to care (they took about twelve minutes off during the first half yesterday) and has had a few too many similar incidents throughout the year. It may be a good idea if you considered that it is possible that this may not be on Hurley, but rather on a handful of players.

We were up 7 points with 36 seconds left in regulation and then up 5 points with 1 minute left in overtime to a Seton Hall team that was 1-12 in the Big East and we couldn't get the ball inbounds once out of five tries to end the game. Seton Hall has one little "big" guy 6'9 214 lbs who plays and averages 2 points and 2 rebounds on the season. Hurley barely played our 6'10 260 lb big guy who can score and rebound. The little "big" guy for Seton Hall had 12 points and 10 rebounds.

Yes, I put that on coaching.

 

[RuffRuff]

We were up 7 points with 36 seconds left in regulation and then up 5 points with 1 minute left in overtime to a Seton Hall team that was 1-12 in the Big East and we couldn't get the ball inbounds once out of five tries to end the game. Seton Hall has one little "big" guy 6'9 214 lbs who plays and averages 2 points and 2 rebounds on the season. Hurley barely played our 6'10 260 lb big guy who can score and rebound. The little "big" guy for Seton Hall had 12 points and 10 rebounds.

Yes, I put that on coaching.

Our use of a clear physical advantage on offense when nothing else is working blows my mind, but it’s been a thing all year.

Maybe AK will come out with a memoir at some point disclosing what the h@ll the locker room is like this year. Something feels way off kilter.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

We were up 7 points with 36 seconds left in regulation and then up 5 points with 1 minute left in overtime to a Seton Hall team that was 1-12 in the Big East and we couldn't get the ball inbounds once out of five tries to end the game. Seton Hall has one little "big" guy 6'9 214 lbs who plays and averages 2 points and 2 rebounds on the season. Hurley barely played our 6'10 260 lb big guy who can score and rebound. The little "big" guy for Seton Hall had 12 points and 10 rebounds.

Yes, I put that on coaching.

If you want to put yesterday's loss on coaching, fine. It's a valid argument.

This back and forth however is on your claim that AK stating the players aren't always taking the opponents as seriously as they should is on Dan Hurley is an entirely different argument. Tell me this wasn't your post:

 

[superjohn]

If you want to put yesterday's loss on coaching, fine. It's a valid argument.

This back and forth however is on your claim that AK stating the players aren't always taking the opponents as seriously as they should is on Dan Hurley is an entirely different argument. Tell me this wasn't your post:
View attachment 107042

Yes it's my post and it makes me a feel a whole lot worse about this team. Hurley should be the one owning the loss.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

One other thing I would recommend is not pulling the fire alarm too quickly. There is going to be more volatility year to year and even month to month with the transfer portal, and fans just have to deal with it. Kansas, UConn and UNC are learning what happens when your transfers underperform or simply do not get on the same page. It will happen next year with other teams.

Traditional recruiting is becoming increasingly irrelevant. As good as McNeeley is, he has too many games like yesterday's. Coaches need to make tough decisions about whether it is better to tie up a sizable chunk of NIL in a one-and-done frosh that is used to dominating one-on-one against inferior competition, or get a 21 year old that is polished at the college game but is just a hair below what is needed athletically to be a first round NBA lock. These are not easy decisions, and you can see why so many old-time coaches are calling it quits.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Yes it's my post and it makes me a feel a whole lot worse about this team. Hurley should be the one owning the loss.

Perhaps. I personally believe that there's enough blame that a few should get a piece of it.

As far as players not placing the necessary level of seriousness in each game, that's entirely on them.

 

[Deleted at users request]

One other thing I would recommend is not pulling the fire alarm too quickly. There is going to be more volatility year to year and even month to month with the transfer portal, and fans just have to deal with it. Kansas, UConn and UNC are learning what happens when your transfers underperform or simply do not get on the same page. It will happen next year with other teams.

Traditional recruiting is becoming increasingly irrelevant. As good as McNeeley is, he has too many games like yesterday's. Coaches need to make tough decisions about whether it is better to tie up a sizable chunk of NIL in a one-and-done frosh that is used to dominating one-on-one against inferior competition, or get a 21 year old that is polished at the college game but is just a hair below what is needed athletically to be a first round NBA lock. These are not easy decisions, and you can see why so many old-time coaches are calling it quits.

College coaching is suppose to be about developing young men first and foremost.

If it turns into building the best roster every year without care for actually developing the best talent it’s no different than the NBA and Euroleague. Which is disappointing.

Before any asks, naturally having a focus on developing talent the right way should lead to winning games long term.

 

[Kolumbo]

The Inbounds Situation
So much talk about the inability to get the ball in play multiple times so maybe it deserves its own thread. What was the major issue here, or was it several factors? We all agree it was inexcusable but was it on Hurley, players, defense?

1. Lack of an effective play which seems impossible to believe
2. Players failed to execute the play
3. SHU defended superbly
4. SHU fouled preventing players to get open
5. AK was too careful or missed throw-in opportunities
6. All of the above

I can accept that Hurley coached an awful game yesterday but I also believe a coach can only do so much. I have to believe something is going on with the players.

 

[RuffRuff]

One other thing I would recommend is not pulling the fire alarm too quickly. There is going to be more volatility year to year and even month to month with the transfer portal, and fans just have to deal with it. Kansas, UConn and UNC are learning what happens when your transfers underperform or simply do not get on the same page. It will happen next year with other teams.

Traditional recruiting is becoming increasingly irrelevant. As good as McNeeley is, he has too many games like yesterday's. Coaches need to make tough decisions about whether it is better to tie up a sizable chunk of NIL in a one-and-done frosh that is used to dominating one-on-one against inferior competition, or get a 21 year old that is polished at the college game but is just a hair below what is needed athletically to be a first round NBA lock. These are not easy decisions, and you can see why so many old-time coaches are calling it quits.

Really good post. Its what makes roster construction fascinating these days, striking the balance, building depth and having insurance plans built in, while maintaining harmony. It’s really hard. This year will be a learning season for a really smart staff, pretty confident they’ll pull smart levers to figure it out. I’d imagine they’ve been scouting portal possibilities already.

It was said already but staff over invested in the soph class, and the continuity piece. There is no question a portal alternative or two could have made this team better. There is nothing streaming off that group that suggests they know our system so well it’s must have. If anything it’s been the opposite.

To the last post - sure developing young men is important, at UConn’s level winning takes priority. They can happen in tandem, but doesn’t have to. Duke is an example. Memphis and UK are other examples.

If anyone wants to scout the portal Drake is on ESPN2.

 

[FreeKlaiber]

If you want to put yesterday's loss on coaching, fine. It's a valid argument.

This back and forth however is on your claim that AK stating the players aren't always taking the opponents as seriously as they should is on Dan Hurley is an entirely different argument. Tell me this wasn't your post:
View attachment 107042

It is an awful sign that AK is shouldering the blame for this season. You can't question his desire. However, he and many teammates have been put in situations that they can't succeed. Dan Hurley's stubborness is continuing trying to put square pegs into round holes, defensively especially. The roster construction and having no penetrators other than Hass is beyond limiting. Regardless, We can't be in a one possession rock fight with inferior teams like this. Dan Hurley is not great at in game x and o's, especially seems to tighten up against Seton Hall in jersey

An example of "looking like a poorly coached team" just from final play. Whether or not he was fouled on the play, do you think designing a set to get the ball into a corner trap with your no ballhandling guard is a good O.O.B. play design? We've done it all year, but its usually 6 foot Hass getting the ball in the corner, then immediately trapped. There are a TON of O.O.B. that don't inbound directly into the corner trap like St Johns or last night. But here we are. and if you are going to run an inbounds play that passes it into corner, have a 1) headier player who knows you dont have to split the trap, and can just pivot and take the foul or 2) have a taller player to receive inbounds if in corner (Stew or AK). It's poor coaching IMO to do the football gimmick play at end of game and then pass into a trap to guard who can't dribble. and I agree, Tarris not getting to utilize his post up game against a team like that is also bad coaching (and I'm a Samson stan). Also not fan of sanctimoniously preaching only getting the right type of guy from the right kind of family bla bla, but then calling them out for being too nice. I feel bad for where Dan Hurley must be mentally right now after playing WWE heel and now eating crow, but I feel worse for AK.

 

[F101Voodoo]

The lack of a call on the previous play with McNeeley was worse hacked across both arms reaching for the ball

As others and I had said we should not have been in the situation that a bad call or two would decide the game. That goes right back to the first half.

 

[Deleted at users request]

To the last post - sure developing young men is important, at UConn’s level winning takes priority. They can happen in tandem, but doesn’t have to. Duke is an example. Memphis and UK are other examples.

If anyone wants to scout the portal Drake is on ESPN2.

They should work in tandem. That’s what college is about.

Because just as easily as you can have a year of development where you don’t win as much you can also have a year like this where you pour everything into pushing plays like Diarra, AK, Mahaney, and Samson to the front and get nothing out of it.

At least with development you set yourself up for the future. This season turning out this way is magnified by the fact that we’re getting not much out of the sophomores and our freshman seasons were a waste.

I’d rather have went all in on doing things to make our young players better to be great for next season. Now we’re stuck in no man’s land wondering if we should invest in our guys even more or roll the dice on the portal where there’s STILL a chance of bad results and continuing to go down this path of selling out for wins that may or may not happen.

 

[RuffRuff]

They should work in tandem. That’s what college is about.

Because just as easily as you can have a year of development where you don’t win as much you can also have a year like this where you pour everything into pushing plays like Diarra, AK, Mahaney, and Samson to the front and get nothing out of it.

At least with development you set yourself up for the future. This season turning at this way is magnified by the fact that we’re getting not much out of the sophomores and our freshman seasons were a waste.

I’d rather have went all in on doing things to make our young players better to be great for next season. Now we’re stuck in no man’s land wondering if we should invest in our guys even more or roll the dice on the portal where there’s STILL a chance of bad results and continuing to go down this path of selling out for wins that may or may not happen.

There are some coaches trying that, Painter, Shaka. It’s limiting.

The portal is here.

Look at the best teams this year - portal stamped all over.

Speaking of Painter, gonna be interesting to see what happens with Braden Smith when he gets a 2-3mm NIL offer in the portal as a senior with no NBA potential. This could be his one chance to cash out.

 

[Deleted at users request]

There are some coaches trying that, Painter, Shaka. It’s limiting.

The portal is here.

Look at the best teams this year - portal stamped all over.

Speaking of Painter, gonna be interesting to see what happens with Braden Smith when he gets a 2-3mm NIL offer in the portal as a senior with no NBA potential. This could be his one chance to cash out.

They consistently have top 10 teams though and they don’t recruit at the level we do.

 

[1999GoodSon]

+1. When the team loses to Seton Hall, the problems are way past the refs.

Yes yes and yes. Although it won't, this comment should vaporize further discussion of the ref's role in us being on the losing end of whatever that was we all saw yesterday. Whether the zebras will, won't, did or don't is like arguing with the shape of clouds.

 

[RuffRuff]

They consistently have top 10 teams though and they don’t recruit at the level we do.

Matt Painter is unlikely to ever win a NC. He got to his first final 4 with a uber dominant 7’4” guy last year. If you want your upside to be a S16, you can roll that system out.

 

[BigTenFan]

There are some coaches trying that, Painter, Shaka. It’s limiting.

The portal is here.

Look at the best teams this year - portal stamped all over.

Speaking of Painter, gonna be interesting to see what happens with Braden Smith when he gets a 2-3mm NIL offer in the portal as a senior with no NBA potential. This could be his one chance to cash out.

Purdue will come up with the money to keep Smith, Loyer and TKR

Say what you want about Painter but he develops talent and has built a great culture in West Lafayette.

 

[RuffRuff]

Purdue will come up with the money to keep Smith, Loyer and TKR

Say what you want about Painter but he develops talent and has built a great culture in West Lafayette.

No doubt - much respect for the guy, but he’s unlikely to roll out NC potential teams often.

There will be programs willing to pay big for Smith next year and I’ve seen nothing to suggest Purdue has deep pockets. Smith strikes me as a loyal kid so I’m sure they figure it out.

 

[KingAG]

No doubt - much respect for the guy, but he’s unlikely to roll out NC potential teams often.

There will be programs willing to pay big for Smith next year and I’ve seen nothing to suggest Purdue has deep pockets. Smith strikes me as a loyal kid so I’m sure they figure it out.

They found the money for Edey.

 

[BigTenFan]

They found the money for Edey.

They found 8 million dollars to fire the football coach after two years and hire another one...they will find the money to keep one of the best players to ever wear a Purdue uniform.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Really good post. Its what makes roster construction fascinating these days, striking the balance, building depth and having insurance plans built in, while maintaining harmony. It’s really hard. This year will be a learning season for a really smart staff, pretty confident they’ll pull smart levers to figure it out. I’d imagine they’ve been scouting portal possibilities already.

It was said already but staff over invested in the soph class, and the continuity piece. There is no question a portal alternative or two could have made this team better. There is nothing streaming off that group that suggests they know our system so well it’s must have. If anything it’s been the opposite.

To the last post - sure developing young men is important, at UConn’s level winning takes priority. They can happen in tandem, but doesn’t have to. Duke is an example. Memphis and UK are other examples.

If anyone wants to scout the portal Drake is on ESPN2.

My point is that everything is going to happen slower in terms of on court performance by the players. The upperclassmen are just better than they were 10 or 20 years ago. The NIL has had a huge difference in the quality of play, because now borderline NBA players and euro players stay in school, and the players for whom pro ball is not an option clearly put more time into their games because they are getting paid. There were a lot of players in the old days that would mail it in junior year on because, what difference did it make? That does not happen as much anymore.

Better upperclassmen means that the non-superstar underclassmen on major conference teams are going to have to wait their turn, and really work hard to get on the court. I am sure Hurley is getting a lot of game film from MAAC, MVC, MAC, WCC and AAC players that want a shot at the big time, and are busting their butts to get here. Nothing is guaranteed to the current freshmen and sophomores on the team.

So that means both, A) don't read too much into how the current sophomores are playing, and B) nothing is guaranteed. I think Stewart has potential but he has to pull his head out of his butt on defense. His defensive instincts are terrible. Ross...eh. I will defer to the coaches. He may develop into a role player and he will know the system and may be willing to accept the role. I am not as down on Mahaney (I know he is a junior) as some, although I don't know how much NIL he is making so maybe I should be.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Just noting here that Auriemma had Bueckers on the court with under 2 minutes left in a game he was leading by 25+. Hasn't he learned anything in the last 5 years of coaching Bueckers and Fudd?

 

[tennmike]

Well I respect you and your thoughts so I never called you a loser so not sure why my post was brought into that equation.

The elephant in the room isn’t the refs last night that’s where we disagree. Bad calls happen but up 7 with 36 seconds left is not a game you lose without stupid plays, bad decisions and not being able to get the ball in bounds. Solo missed a huge FT, he fouled a crappy shooter for 3 easy ones and HD let a guy get to the hole without a defensive play and then Alex gagged not getting the ball in bounds. The refs only came into play because the coaches and players didn’t react in a winning manner. Hence why I disagree.

And Hass allowed a bowling ball an unimpeded lane to the basket with seconds left in the game. Last year's team had BBIQ in spades; this year not so much.
And to think there aren't any fresh legs on the bench that can get free for an inbounds pass (Reed, Abraham, Nowell). If Nowell is not better than the injured version of Hass, then that's saying something. Yeah, we're not in practice so what the heck to we know?
We didn't make up the 3-peat narrative.

This loss was so bad that it should count as two losses. UConn literally lost the game twice due to serious ineptitude.

 

[controlfade]

There are some coaches trying that, Painter, Shaka. It’s limiting.

The portal is here.

Look at the best teams this year - portal stamped all over.

Speaking of Painter, gonna be interesting to see what happens with Braden Smith when he gets a 2-3mm NIL offer in the portal as a senior with no NBA potential. This could be his one chance to cash out.

Duke is a top team and they clearly are not stamped by the portal. If anything they are the complete opposite.
The portal is a tool

Matt Painter is unlikely to ever win a NC. He got to his first final 4 with a uber dominant 7’4” guy last year. If you want your upside to be a S16, you can roll that system out.

no one is ever likely to win a NC, the odds are not in your favor.
People can also claim Hurley got his first ever tournament win with an uber dominant 7’2” monster.