Seton Hall post-game thread [merged thread]]

[huskiemaniac]

Seems like it's gonna be a while before Geno achieves his goal of being "bad for basketball again."

The seniors are what they are -and have been- so to expect anything different will lead to fan frustration. I want to say one thing about ONO, not to criticize an individual player, but to illuminate what I consider to be a current team affliction: "poor basketball judgement", aka "dumb basketball".

In the first half, Liv had an open shot in the lane, maybe a 6-8 footer. It was not the result of a power move, not a spin or fade away, BUT, after she took the shot, and as she watched the ball sail to the rim, she backpedaled to near the FT line, negating any chance to grab a miss.

Another example of a fundamental miscue was when Paige- who obviously IS the team, and without whom we'd be as bad as or worse than the 2005 team, imo, made a nice drive in the paint, heading for an easy 4-5 footer, or less, and inexplicably shoveled a late 2-ft pass to ONO, which resulted in a turnover (not Liv's fault).

There are plenty of examples.

The good news is these errors can be corrected. I look forward to that day and hope it arrives soon. (Hopefully by Sunday!)

 

[oldude]

It's rare that I do, but in this case I'll have to disagree with you. Our starters are the same as last year and SH was missing AEH! Does that mean we would have lost if she played? We have no 'focus'....no 'gelling' still.

You play the team that shows up. Whether SH would have done better if AEH was on the floor is debatable. AEH is a high volume shooter who has had both good and bad games in her time at SH. Holding any team to 49 pts on 28% shooting is good defense anyway you cut it.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

As usual, Paige was Paige. I may mention this all year, but anyone who left her out of the NPOY discussion in favor of "others" seriously had a screw loose. Did they think she was great by accident last season? That her play all year long was an aberration or luck?

I was one of the naysayers, Eric. But in answer to your question, I didn't think her absence from the NPOY discussion would be attributed to Paige not being Paige. (I may, in fact, have a screw loose but that's a thread for another day.)

One of the characteristics that makes Paige outstanding is that she's mutable. She does so many things so well she can't be pigeonholed. I felt her characteristic unselfishness (a requirement to be the team leader she is) would cost her points on a team chock full of "shooters" (yes, I drank the Boneyard Kool-Aid). Scoring (almost) always tops the list of attributes that make a basketball player great. Diminished scoring diminishes a player's chances of being NPOY. My reasoning was that simple.

Those shooters seem to be struggling at the moment, especially from downtown and the foul stripe. If we don't figure those things out, they will cost us games (yes, plural) this year...unless the defense can dominate talented teams (something not demonstrated thus far). Last evening, for example, poor shooting (<19% on 3's and 60% on free throws conservatively cost us 15 points. That's almost a full quarter's output. It's tough to outscore good teams when you spot them 15 points.

Thus far, shooting struggles have forced Paige to be the scorer she was last year and that, together with last year's performance) has rewarded her with the "pole position" in this year's NPOY race.

If the shooters are making shots in practice, we are one final click away from the combination that unlocks this team. Unlocked, we are a 90 ppg offensive beast. Unlocked, Paige can become more the facilitator she desires to be. Paige is a natural manager, a person who accomplishes things by directing the efforts of others, by putting them in a position where success is inevitable. If not, NPOY is hers to lose.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Was there an article I missed stating this? Curious.

There are lots and lots (and lots and lots) of references, to Geno saying that those who don't perform in practice don't play. But I don't have anything specific I could point you to.

 

[jchusky]

SC was up about 30 and Dawn emptied the bench. Henderson did not play and Amihere was the starting point guard. However, Amihere did well.

yea barring injuries idk who is stopping South Carolina. I mean they were who I thought would win it all, but to be this dominant. Obviously a lot of season to still be played, but what is scary is I don't think they played their best yet.

 

[oldude]

That's a good possibility, but I also worry that because of Paige having to be the one taking the lead, no outside shooting and being the main focus for guarding, that she is also susceptable for getting injured!

I don’t know if you watched Geno’s show after the game, but the one thing I noticed when they showed practice video is that Paige is winning every suicide sprint, reinforcing what Geno & Andrea Hudy have indicated that Paige outworks everyone on the team, both in the weight room and on the court.

It’s not a guarantee that Paige won’t be injured, but she’s certainly doing everything she can to strengthen her body for the inevitable punishment she will face from opposing teams.

 

[Surly1]

This is very interesting and accurate thus far. I guess we are still less than a month into the season, but I'm not sure there has been an impact freshman like Paige or Clark this year. I'm all in on Citron and she dropped 29 in their last outing, but I think prior to that her high was like 13 (I know she does a lot of other things on the court). There is a backup point guard at Duke out of Canada, Wilson, who has been fearless and really good in a couple games. Olivia Miles and Talia Von Oelhoffen have both been good, not great. They both had a head start last year though. A lot of the top 15 rated players, including Azzi and Caroline are on stacked teams and have had limited opportunities. Nevertheless that 2020 class may be a 1 of 1.

I am interested in watching how Citron follows up on her game against Michigan State. I concur that it appears much harder for highly ranked recruits to make an immediate impact on seasoned, deep teams. Last year, Oregon’s highly touted “fab five” didn’t live up to expectation. This year, it doesn’t seem likely that the SC incoming class will have much of an opportunity to make sizable contributions.
It’s seems fair to state that we are obviously spoiled by Paige’s exploits last year. Her performance against SC was probably the greatest performance by a freshman I’ve seen, especially given the magnitude of the game.
One final tidbit concerning Paige. In last night’s game, she threw a full court pass to Christyn Williams in transition that hit her in stride will a defender nearby. I hope people realize how difficult a pass that is, and she made it appear effortles.

 

[victor64]

*Paige, despite her NIL stuff, is filling up the stat sheet. Did not think it would evolve into a one person team. But it is getting there.


Don't want to speak for someone, but I'm gonna take a stab at it. I believe the point isn't really so much filling the stat sheet as it is pointing out that the effort, competitiveness and willingness to get bloodied up are still there for Paige even though she is now quite wealthy. No matter what is going on, winning is still her number one priority.

Yep. Thanks.

 

[Waquoit]

UConn really looks like a one-woman team.

 

[donalddoowop]

Give Caroline more time? Really? That was Seton Hall UCONN was playing!

She is still a freshman in the early games of her career playing in one of the hardest offensive systems in WCBB to master. Give the young lady a chance. I watched Miles play her first games last season and she made a ton of mistakes but her coach kept playing her. She still makes many mistakes but she is getting the opportunity to overcome them. The players are still new to college ball.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

I did not say play 7-8 cupcakes like some but 2 would be highly beneficial for this team. ...

Cupcakes = wins. For programs without winning traditions, wins create a winning attitude and draw talented players which translate into more wins in a reinforcing loop. Cupcakes can help transform losers into winners. For programs like UConn, cupcakes are an embarrassment.

 

[visitingcock]

Is it possible that the team is suffering from superstar lethargy? Do the other players rely on her too much?

Does she need to sit more minutes against the cream puffs to let others work without relying on her?

Just asking; not accusing.

 

[oldude]

Is it possible that the team is suffering from superstar lethargy? Do the other players rely on her too much?

Does she need to sit more minutes against the cream puffs to let others work without relying on her?

Just asking; not accusing.

Do other players rely on Paige too much?
Yes.

As for sitting Paige, right now UConn’s offense sputters without Paige on the court so there is a Catch-22 for Geno. Even last night he sat Paige down a couple times allowing Evina & Nika to alternately run the offense. On both occasions UConn’s execution suffered and he had to get Paige back in the game.

 

[LCConnFan]

Seems like it's gonna be a while before Geno achieves his goal of being "bad for basketball again."

The seniors are what they are -and have been- so to expect anything different will lead to fan frustration. I want to say one thing about ONO, not to criticize an individual player, but to illuminate what I consider to be a current team affliction: "poor basketball judgement", aka "dumb basketball".

In the first half, Liv had an open shot in the lane, maybe a 6-8 footer. It was not the result of a power move, not a spin or fade away, BUT, after she took the shot, and as she watched the ball sail to the rim, she backpedaled to near the FT line, negating any chance to grab a miss.

Another example of a fundamental miscue was when Paige- who obviously IS the team, and without whom we'd be as bad as or worse than the 2005 team, imo, made a nice drive in the paint, heading for an easy 4-5 footer, or less, and inexplicably shoveled a late 2-ft pass to ONO, which resulted in a turnover (not Liv's fault).

There are plenty of examples.

The good news is these errors can be corrected. I look forward to that day and hope it arrives soon. (Hopefully by Sunday!)

I'll be happy as long as it arrives by the playoffs . This team for the past year at least, is the definition of 'insanity'. Doing the same thing over and over, but expecting different results!

 

[hoopsfan22]

This entire thread is a joke. The moment CW scores another 30 ball, the comments will shift. We are the only team that has played 5 games besides Iowa. Imagine playing a 3 games back to back, having 3 hard practices and not playing for 10 days. You’d be a little off too.

Yeah in the old days today's game would have been the 7th or 8th of the season with the games being more spread out over the first month of the season so the team would have a game, then a few days of practice to work on things, then another game, then a few more days of practice before the next game, and steady improvement would be noticeable. When you play a game, then are off for two weeks, then play back to back to back then have another 10 day break before the next game you don't have that luxury.

 

[LCConnFan]

There are lots and lots (and lots and lots) of references, to Geno saying that those who don't perform in practice don't play. But I don't have anything specific I could point you to.

Yes, I've seen that, but wondered if there was a definitive reason I had missed.

 

[CocoHusky]

She is still a freshman in the early games of her career playing in one of the hardest offensive systems in WCBB to master. Give the young lady a chance. I watched Miles play her first games last season and she made a ton of mistakes but her coach kept playing her. She still makes many mistakes but she is getting the opportunity to overcome them. The players are still new to college ball.

Don't confuse UCONN's situation with ND's or Olivia Miles with Caroline. ND. can afford to experiment because they are trying to climb out of mediocrity in the ACC. UCONN is trying to get over the hump and win a championship. Azzi is hurt and Caroline has an opportunity to step in and contribute at UCONN. There was an article posted here within the last few days where Caroline stated that she understood the opportunity and was preparing to meet the challenge. Caroline's performance in the game yesterday indicated she was not prepared for the challenge and that was against SH ND. UCONN plays ND tomorrow and you want Geno to give Caroline an opportunity to go out there and match up against Olivia Miles and Sonia Citron? I don't think that's going to happen.

 

[LCConnFan]

I don’t know if you watched Geno’s show after the game, but the one thing I noticed when they showed practice video is that Paige is winning every suicide sprint, reinforcing what Geno & Andrea Hudy have indicated that Paige outworks everyone on the team, both in the weight room and on the court.

It’s not a guarantee that Paige won’t be injured, but she’s certainly doing everything she can to strengthen her body for the inevitable punishment she will face from opposing teams.

Except for the weakest spots on a body..........back and ankles.

 

[jchusky]

I don’t know if you watched Geno’s show after the game, but the one thing I noticed when they showed practice video is that Paige is winning every suicide sprint, reinforcing what Geno & Andrea Hudy have indicated that Paige outworks everyone on the team, both in the weight room and on the court.

It’s not a guarantee that Paige won’t be injured, but she’s certainly doing everything she can to strengthen her body for the inevitable punishment she will face from opposing teams.

see I always saw that differently. I never thought of it being about Paige, I thought about the rest of the team. Paige is not a fast player imo, there are other players that have been at Uconn 3-4 seasons, another player would technically be a senior if she played her whole career at Uconn. Why are they getting outworked by a sophomore? I won't mention any names, but some of the players in their games you can see why they are inconsistent. Either they don't have the strength to keep up, or they don't have the work ethic.

 

[gold2323]

Is a long season and when it counts UCONN will be there….
But the enigma is that with CW you cringe when she shoots and the same with her drives specially against decisive opponents….there is not a shot CW does not like.
Ono can be a force at times but she misses so much close to the basket even with no defender….
If they play like Seniors should when is crunch time it will lead to a NC ….
I want both of them to succeed but consistency is a must.

 

[oldude]

Except for the weakest spots on a body..........back and ankles.

I’m not worried at all about Paige’s back. She’s young, and the squat & deadlift workouts that Andrea Hudy puts the team through are designed to significantly strengthen lower back muscles.

Ankle injuries do have an element of randomness to them. But here again, there are lots of excercises that players can do to both strengthen ankles and increase flexibility. In Paige’s case, she had off-season surgery to correct a chronic ankle problem. So far this season there has been no indication that the ankle still bothers her…knock on wood.

 

[LCConnFan]

Is a long season and when it counts UCONN will be there….
But the enigma is that with CW you cringe when she shoots and the same with her drives specially against decisive opponents….there is not a shot CW does not like.
Ono can be a force at times but she misses so much close to the basket even with no defender….
If they play like Seniors should when is crunch time it will lead to a NC ….
I want both of them to succeed but consistency is a must.

It could be why Liv is the leader in rebounds so far. She just gets her own 'miss'! Just sayin'.

 

[Urshurak]

sum of youse sound a bit loopy, with ur 'expectations.'
against a competitive team, at their place, we won by 3 touchdowns and a field goal.
more importantly, and for the first time ever, this season in cbb will be less predictable cuz of all that covid/transfer/7th year senior stuff. that's a lot of moving parts and extra experience being sprinkled all around. take ur average wcbb player. the vast majority have no expectation when they begin school, to play much after college. now give them another season out of the blue. amped would be their thoughts, im guessing.

and oh, dorka had 10 boards. but u knew that, amiright?

I had to go take a Tylenol after reading this.

 

[LCConnFan]

I’m not worried at all about Paige’s back. She’s young, and the squat & deadlift workouts that Andrea Hudy puts the team through are designed to significantly strengthen lower back muscles.

Ankle injuries do have an element of randomness to them. But here again, there are lots of excercises that players can do to both strengthen ankles and increase flexibility. In Paige’s case, she had off-season surgery to correct a chronic ankle problem. So far this season there has been no indication that the ankle still bothers her…knock on wood.

I understand what you're saying, but with poor outside shooting from our team, opponents just clog up the interior, making her drive through, which IMO, where one is most likely to get hurt. And on strengthening, look at poor Aubrey. Young or not, when there are multiple defenders around you, the odds are being pushed.

 

[Childhood]

One final tidbit concerning Paige. In last night’s game, she threw a full court pass to Christyn Williams in transition that hit her in stride will a defender nearby. I hope people realize how difficult a pass that is, and she made it appear effortles.

I love this full court pass a lot. And I also give credit to CW's catch and finish. CW is a perfect teammate to run the fast break.

 

[RegisteredUconn]

Yes, I've seen that, but wondered if there was a definitive reason I had missed.

I don't know the reason, but inferring, I'd guess he believes poor practice players are unreliable game performers. Someone who can hit home runs but frequently strikes out. Inconsistency is a hallmark of poor quality. He probably also worries about the effect giving significant minutes to someone who goofs off in practice will do to the team overall. Few things destroy cohesion like "special treatment."

 

[CocoHusky]

see I always saw that differently. I never thought of it being about Paige, I thought about the rest of the team. Paige is not a fast player imo, there are other players that have been at Uconn 3-4 seasons, another player would technically be a senior if she played her whole career at Uconn. Why are they getting outworked by a sophomore? I won't mention any names, but some of the players in their games you can see why they are inconsistent. Either they don't have the strength to keep up, or they don't have the work ethic.

There is also IMO a void in leadership from the upperclassmen. The program expectation is leadership comes from the upperclassmen. The Stewie Mojeff and Morgan Tuck class is a perfect example. Stewie was clearly the best player as a freshman but in times of adversity they never had to lead until their senior season. That class was not without adversity (there was ND, BYU and ND again) in Junior season. Each time it was an upper class man that provided the required leadership. KLM was a reluctant senior leader but she got it done most notable in her last game of her career against ND where she basically said "give me the ball" it is winning time
Listen to this clip of Dolson at half time of the BYU tournament game.
.

 

[eebmg]

As usual, Paige was Paige. I may mention this all year, but anyone who left her out of the NPOY discussion in favor of "others" seriously had a screw loose. Did they think she was great by accident last season? That her play all year long was an aberration or luck?

I was one of the naysayers, Eric. But in answer to your question, I didn't think her absence from the NPOY discussion would be attributed to Paige not being Paige. (I may, in fact, have a screw loose but that's a thread for another day.)

One of the characteristics that makes Paige outstanding is that she's mutable. She does so many things so well she can't be pigeonholed. I felt her characteristic unselfishness (a requirement to be the team leader she is) would cost her points on a team chock full of "shooters" (yes, I drank the Boneyard Kool-Aid). Scoring (almost) always tops the list of attributes that make a basketball player great. Diminished scoring diminishes a player's chances of being NPOY. My reasoning was that simple.

Those shooters seem to be struggling at the moment, especially from downtown and the foul stripe. If we don't figure those things out, they will cost us games (yes, plural) this year...unless the defense can dominate talented teams (something not demonstrated thus far). Last evening, for example, poor shooting (<19% on 3's and 60% on free throws conservatively cost us 15 points. That's almost a full quarter's output. It's tough to outscore good teams when you spot them 15 points.

Thus far, shooting struggles have forced Paige to be the scorer she was last year and that, together with last year's performance) has rewarded her with the "pole position" in this year's NPOY race.

If the shooters are making shots in practice, we are one final click away from the combination that unlocks this team. Unlocked, we are a 90 ppg offensive beast. Unlocked, Paige can become more the facilitator she desires to be. Paige is a natural manager, a person who accomplishes things by directing the efforts of others, by putting them in a position where success is inevitable. If not, NPOY is hers to lose.

Following up NPOY discussions, it seems to me it is a 2 person race between Boston and Bueckers. SC is the dominant team and she is the best player by far on the best team at the moment. But I will add that if it is a close race meaning that UConn looks like a real NC contender, voters will probably want to give it to Boston to "spread the wealth". Losing directly to SC did not help .

 

[Surly1]

I love this full court pass a lot. And I also give credit to CW's catch and finish. CW is a perfect teammate to run the fast break.

Agreed. Williams is like a wide receiver on those passes from Paige. She has sure hands and always finishes well. They are an excellent combo.

 

[Stymie]

Is it possible that the team is suffering from superstar lethargy? Do the other players rely on her too much?

Does she need to sit more minutes against the cream puffs to let others work without relying on her?

Just asking; not accusing.

At this rate she will be sitting down— with injuries.
I AM ABSOLUTELY NOT WISHING THAT.
But it is inevitable.
Going this hard, game in and game out- with a target on her back as the one player that makes this team go.
You think SC is going to take it easy on her in January?
And every team in between?
One hard screen..
One missed shot block to the kisser...
One rolled ankle (see last season)...
And this team is toast.
Maybe Geno should dumb the offense down.
Vince Lombardi:
Sweep right
Sweep right
Sweep right
Sweep left?
Sweep right
TOUCHDOWN!!
Rinse and repeat.
Team playing scared on offense.
Afraid of making mistakes.
JMHO