Seth Davis The Moron

[jibsey]

I know we expect this kind of crap from him but.......He writes about Indiana having "a championship tradition that well preceded its predecessor (Crean) while UCONN did not" in Jim Calhoun. In other words UCONN has no future without Calhoun. Question, where was the championship tradition at Duke prior to coach K?

 

[benjordan]

I don't quite get the logic either.. what a detriment to UConn that they've been so successful the past 15 years. If only they were really good 50 years ago we'd be set up for the future.

 

[DrewDog85]

I know we expect this kind of crap from him but.......He writes about Indiana having "a championship tradition that well preceded its predecessor (Crean) while UCONN did not" in Jim Calhoun. In other words UCONN has no future without Calhoun. Question, where was the championship tradition at Duke prior to coach K?

Foster, Giminski, Banks

 

[willie99]

idiots often use idiotic reasoning. He thinks he's making sense, that's his problem.

 

[HuskyFan32]

I don't quite get the logic either.. what a detriment to UConn that they've been so successful the past 15 years. If only they were really good 50 years ago we'd be set up for the future.

Perfectly said. Who cares what a program did 50 or 60 years ago. Black kids couldnt even play or just started to. I'm sure today's players really identify with those times. Indiana hasn't won a title in 25 years.

 

[alexd]

No championships for Duke before K arrived, but they did get to six Elite 8's and four F4's in the 20 years before he arrived.

 

[caw]

I know we expect this kind of crap from him but.......He writes about Indiana having "a championship tradition that well preceded its predecessor (Crean) while UCONN did not" in Jim Calhoun. In other words UCONN has no future without Calhoun. Question, where was the championship tradition at Duke prior to coach K?

It's extremely fair to say Indiana has more history than UConn. They have NC's in the 40's and 50's (one each decade). So that's at least 2 coaches that have won at Indiana prior to Crean.

Now his premise that Indiana will have an easier time bouncing back than UConn is a bit absurd.

Just to run through recent replacements for some programs and how long it took after the retirement of their NC winning coach to win a NC (which is the only thing that can really count as "replacing" a coach like Calhoun):

• NC State: 22 years and counting since Valvano
• UCLA: 20 years, Wooden retires in 1975 they won in 1995, haven't won since (17 years).
• KU: 20 years, Larry Brown left in 1988 and they didn't win until 2008
• Indiana: 18 years and counting since Knight left.
• Georgetown: 13+ years and counting since John Thompson left
• UL: 10 years and counting: Crum left in 2001, they haven't won since he left.
• UNC: 8 years, Dean retires in 1997, they win in 2005
• Michigan State: 5 years, Heathcote leaves in 1995, they win in 2000.
• Zona: it's been 3 years since Olsen left
• Duke: unknown
• UK: 1 year. Pitino left in 1997 and they won in 1998. To be clear those were Pitino players and Tubby got very lucky to inherit that team. They haven't won since.

Years since last NCAA National Championship:

1. Oregon 73 years since winning
2. Wisconsin 71 years since winning
3. Stanford 70 years since winning
4. Wyoming 69 years since winning
5. Utah 68 years since winning
6. Oklahoma State 66 years since winning (2)
7. Holy Cross 65 years since winning
8. CCNY 62 years since winning
9. La Salle 58 years since winning
10. San Fransisco 56 years since winning (2)
11. California 53 years since winning
12. Ohio State 52 years since winning
13. Cincinnati 50 years since winning (2)
14. Loyola 49 years since winning
15. UTEP 46 years since winning
16. Marquette 35 years since winning
17. NC State 29 years since winning (2)
18. Georgetown 28 years since winning
19. Villanova 27 years since winning
20. UL 26 years since winning (2)
21. Indiana 25 years since winning (5)
22. Michigan 23 years since winning
23. UNLV 22 years since winning
24. Arkansas 18 years since winning
25. UCLA 17 years since winning (11)
26. Arizona 15 years since winning
27. Kentucky 14 years since winning (7)
28. Michigan State 12 years since winning (still same coach) (2)
29. Maryland 10 years since winning
30. Syracuse 9 years since winning (still same coach)
31. Florida 4 years since winning (still same coach) (2)
32. Kansas 2 years since winning (still same coach) (3)
33. UNC 2 years since winning (still same coach) (5)
34. Duke 1 year since winning (still same coach) (4)
35. UConn <1 year since winning (still same coach) (3)

So of the 35 teams that have won NCAA Championships (according to the NCAA website) 23 haven't won in 20+ years, 26 in 15+ years, 29 in 10+years. Only 14 have multiple NC's, and only 7 with 3+. Of the 7 with 3+ NC's only UConn and Duke have managed that with one coach and both schools have that coach still coaching. There are only 7 NC coaches at the same school where they won the NC.


So will finding a replacement on the same level as Calhoun be hard, of course it will. Just look at that list, Calhoun may be one of the top 5 college coaches in terms of winning/building ever (hard to argue with different eras and rules, thus "may be"). Will Indiana get back before UConn, there is no way to tell, though you could argue IU has a heck of head start at finding a new replacement (25 years and counting).


This also goes out to the fans that expect UConn to win a NC every year. 3 in Calhoun's career is amazing, 3 in 15 years is almost unheard of, Wooden aside.

 

[FrostyNuggets]

Seth Davis is too busy thinking up ways to crow bar Ronnie the Limo Driver phrases into his weekend analysis to do any detailed research.

 

[HuskyFan32]

I think the true argument here is whose worse, him or Gottlieb?

 

[AtlHusky]

I think the true argument here is whose worse, him or Gottlieb?

I think that's a great question. I think the main difference is that Gottlieb says some smarmy, off the wall stuff in order to get attention, but I'm not sure he believes it all. Davis, on the other hand, seems to be convinced that everything he says is so incredibly well thought out that it wouldn't be possible to even have a differing opinion. In other words, Davis doesn't think his $hi+ stinks, while Gottlieb knows it does, but kinda likes the smell of it.

 

[whaler11]

Well if his point is no one knows if UConn is an elite program without Jim Calhoun it's completely valid. I hope that it is, but we won't know until that time comes.

We'll find out if UConn is in the Indiana/Kentucky/Kansas camp or if they are UNLV/Arkansas. My guess is that they are somewhere in between (similar to an Arizona) and the next hire is critical but we'll see.

 

[Tenspro2002]

Realistically, we'll be the sort of program that floats around the top of the conference most years, but doesn't routinely dominate the way we did in the decade plus from 1994-2006. Honestly, I think what we've seen from 2007-present is about what our program will look like post-Calhoun.

In those six years, we've had one extremely young team who never figured it out, a that improved dramatically throughout the season, a team that was top-5 wire-to-wire, a veteran team that disappointed immensely, a young team that surprised immensely, and a highly-touted but young group experiencing growing pains.

We were in the championship conversation ~2 of those years, made the tournament but didn't make any noise 2 of those years (my expectation for this year), and didn't sniff the postseason 2 of those years. That looks about right to me going forward.

 

[Henry]

Before Calhoun got here UConn never thought they could compete for a national championship. Whether or not the program can continue to compete at that level will depend on the committment of the University President, Athletic Director and the boosters. UConn has three championships so we know it can be done. We've done it with different mixes of kids in terms of experience and how highly rated they were out of high school. In short, I think the framework is in place for this program to be competitive in the future. Coach Calhoun deserves a lot of credit for showing us the way.

 

[HuskyFan32]

I think that's a great question. I think the main difference is that Gottlieb says some smarmy, off the wall stuff in order to get attention, but I'm not sure he believes it all. Davis, on the other hand, seems to be convinced that everything he says is so incredibly well thought out that it wouldn't be possible to even have a differing opinion. In other words, Davis doesn't think his $hi+ stinks, while Gottlieb knows it does, but kinda likes the smell of it.

I think that's a great question. I think the main difference is that Gottlieb says some smarmy, off the wall stuff in order to get attention, but I'm not sure he believes it all. Davis, on the other hand, seems to be convinced that everything he says is so incredibly well thought out that it wouldn't be possible to even have a differing opinion. In other words, Davis doesn't think his $hi+ stinks, while Gottlieb knows it does, but kinda likes the smell of it.

It's certainly a close call. I listen to ESPN radio every morning on my way to work and last year during the tournament they has Gottlieb on before every round. He picked us to lose every single game: bucknell, cinci, sdst, Arizona, Kentucky, and yes butler too. True story

 

[Adios]

Calhoun set the foundation for an elite program. The end.

 

[Husky Dogma]

Consider some background on the sources:

Gottlieb - told he wasn't good enough to play in the Big East. Plays at Ok St. instead. Always negative about and picks against the Big East and UConn in particular. I think he still holds a grudge.

Davis - Duke grad. Enough said... Only Dukie in the basketball media I trust is Bilas.

 

[LIUCHusky]

Consider some background on the sources:

Gottlieb - told he wasn't good enough to play in the Big East. Plays at Ok St. instead. Always negative about and picks against the Big East and UConn in particular. I think he still holds a grudge.

Davis - Duke grad. Enough said... Only Dukie in the basketball media I trust is Bilas.

He wasn't told he wasn't good enough to play in the Big East. He was asked to leave Notre Dame because of an incident with a credit card.

 

[Danzz]

I know we expect this kind of crap from him but.......He writes about Indiana having "a championship tradition that well preceded its predecessor (Crean) while UCONN did not" in Jim Calhoun. In other words UCONN has no future without Calhoun. Question, where was the championship tradition at Duke prior to coach K?

Uconn could very well slip to a middle of the pack team in the BE when JC leaves.I don't think that will happen but the first year under JC's replacement will be critical both in terms of the teams record and recruiting.The same goes for Cuse when JB retires.It took quite awhile for Indiana to be competitive after Knight left.

 

[RS9999X]

The depressing figure is the number of hired guns running top tier programs. The Calhouns and Boeheims and Coack Ks are rare. More often its a guy with a proven track record before hire. The Pitinos and Huggins are more common today.

 

[mauconnfan]

Foster, Giminski, Banks

That was it for Duke though so let's not throw them in there with UNC, Indiana, Kentucky, UCLA etc prior to Coach K.

The Huskies will be players for a long time provided the correct decisions are made!!