OT: Serena Is Being Punished

[VAUConnFan]

I agree:

French Open is punishing Serena Williams for having a baby

 

[wire chief]

Thanks, VAUC.

 

[oldude]

There’s one point in the article I take issue with. It suggests the possibility that French Open officials should be concerned over the possibility of an early exit by Serena when she faces seeded opponents in the first few rounds of the tournament. I would make the opposite argument. Imagine being a top seeded player at the French Open and having to face Serena in the opening rounds.

 

[eebmg]

There’s one point in the article I take issue with. It suggests the possibility that French Open officials should be concerned over the possibility of an early exit by Serena when she faces seeded opponents in the first few rounds of the tournament. I would make the opposite argument. Imagine being a top seeded player at the French Open and having to face Serena in the opening rounds.

When seedings do not match reality, both sides are unfairly treated.

 

[meyers7]

Ridiculous article.

So let's see, WTA/French Open followed the rules. She had a very grueling pregnancy so she's probably not back to full speed as yet, she's ranked 453, the writer is cautioning she could exit early, BUT hey, let's seed her because.....well ...she had a baby. Talk about condescending. Maybe they should make them wear skirts and only get to play 3 sets instead of 5.

And if you seed her, who gets unseeded? Someone who has actually been playing and working hard, but because they did not have a baby....screw them.

Freaking Venus/Serena fans. (and people actually wonder why I hate them?????? )

 

[SVCBeercats]

Ridiculous article.
So let's see, WTA/French Open followed the rules. She had a very grueling pregnancy so she's probably not back to full speed as yet, she's ranked 453, the writer is cautioning she could exit early, BUT hey, let's seed her because.....well ...she had a baby. Talk about condescending. Maybe they should make them wear skirts and only get to play 3 sets instead of 5.
And if you seed her, who gets unseeded? Someone who has actually been playing and working hard, but because they did not have a baby....screw them.
Freaking Venus/Serena fans. (and people actually wonder why I hate them?????? )

While I don't share your vitriol, I do share your disbelief with people who believe Serena should be seeded. The author of this daft article provides the reason why not to seed her. "Williams spent the last 16 months on sabbatical, focusing on some other endeavor. But she didn’t. She had a baby, a physically grueling experience made even more so by complications that left her bedridden for six weeks." So the French Open officials are discriminating against Serena because she has not played in 16 months. Is there not a possibility she won't be playing in top form? To make matters worse she had a physically grueling experience which left her bedridden for six weeks. And yet she is thought to return to her dominant form? It is possible but her ranking is her ranking. If she is as good as others believe she is, then she will rise to the occasion. Other players have earned the right to their higher ranking and should not be punished because she chose to have a baby. This is much ado about nothing.

 

[meyers7]

While I don't share your vitriol, I do share your disbelief with people who believe Serena should be seeded. The author of this daft article provides the reason why not to seed her. "Williams spent the last 16 months on sabbatical, focusing on some other endeavor. But she didn’t. She had a baby, a physically grueling experience made even more so by complications that left her bedridden for six weeks." So the French Open officials are discriminating against Serena because she has not played in 16 months. Is there not a possibility she won't be playing in top form? To make matters worse she had a physically grueling experience which left her bedridden for six weeks. And yet she is thought to return to her dominant form? It is possible but her ranking is her ranking. If is as good as others believe she is, then she will rise to the occasion. Other players have earned the right to their higher ranking and should not be punished because she chose to have a baby. This is much ado about nothing.

Well the Williams sisters are one of my pet peeves. And I agree the author make a pretty good case for the WTA/French Open NOT seeding her.

 

[VAMike23]

I can see why she is not seeded at this time, under the current rules, but it's a bit difficult to see why the very idea should provoke "disbelief."

ESPN article

ESPN also quotes other top players in addition to Maria S. as being supportive of such 'special' seeding. (And it would be in Simona Halep's interest to have Serena unseeded as her chances of getting through to later rounds would be reduced.) It may be that the rank and file players will not vote for a change, but the issue is currently under review, so we will have to wait and find out. They're the ones who will vote for what they want to happen, or not happen.

Seeding is ideally supposed to reflect the best players with highest likelihood of success getting placed in the proper pecking order. Rankings are a proxy for that, although as a practical matter there are good reasons that they are used for that purpose today, since the sport is big business. But they are still just a proxy. It's not the other way around.

Serena at this point is clearly not the player she was before she took time out for the baby. OTOH, the players quoted by ESPN don't seem to think that #453 represents reality, either. They didn't say she should be seeded #1, they are saying that in their opinion she deserves a seed, as in somewhere in the top 32. I don't know if that's reflective of where her abilities stand right now or not.

I don't think the tournament organizers are 'punishing' anybody, though. There is a big difference between saying that the tournament organizers are doing something wrong and saying that the rules should be changed. Things are as they are and it does not sound to me like the French Open folks have a lot of flexibility to change their process right now. In a couple years it could be different. The players are ultimately in charge of the rules they play under, so we'll see if any further rule changes are forthcoming. (The rule wrt special rankings applying to 'maternity' comebacks was itself a very recent change.)

 

[eebmg]

Ridiculous article.

So let's see, WTA/French Open followed the rules. She had a very grueling pregnancy so she's probably not back to full speed as yet, she's ranked 453, the writer is cautioning she could exit early, BUT hey, let's seed her because.....well ...she had a baby. Talk about condescending. Maybe they should make them wear skirts and only get to play 3 sets instead of 5.

And if you seed her, who gets unseeded? Someone who has actually been playing and working hard, but because they did not have a baby....screw them.

Freaking Venus/Serena fans. (and people actually wonder why I hate them?????? )

Oh wow. A couple of points.

1) Serena's career speaks for itself and even though she is clearly not at her best, I think we should trust that a true champion knows if she is physically capable of being competitive. Would she enter the French Open just to be embarrassed? I am not saying she is ready to make a deep run (not her best surface) but she has earned that right imho.

2) As pointed out by others, inaccurate seeding like #453 (based on activity instead of ability) potentially hurts other seeds playing her too early.

3) I was under the impression that Tennis had safeguards that froze a player's ranking for a number of years if there was an injury so they do not have to fight unfavorable rankings ? Is this not the case and if it is, is pregnancy not covered?

4) Giving her a seed (lets say #20 for example) does not push the previous #20 seed to #453 but simply from #20 -> #21 (same for all the others below #20) which is an inconsequential difference.

5) Why do you hate the Williams Sisters?

Just kidding. Don't answer.

 

[wire chief]

Ridiculous article.

So let's see, WTA/French Open followed the rules. She had a very grueling pregnancy so she's probably not back to full speed as yet, she's ranked 453, the writer is cautioning she could exit early, BUT hey, let's seed her because.....well ...she had a baby. Talk about condescending. Maybe they should make them wear skirts and only get to play 3 sets instead of 5.

And if you seed her, who gets unseeded? Someone who has actually been playing and working hard, but because they did not have a baby....screw them.

Freaking Venus/Serena fans. (and people actually wonder why I hate them?????? )

Yup, Meyers, I do still wonder.

 

[stamfordhusky]

Oh wow. A couple of points.


3) I was under the impression that Tennis had safeguards that froze a player's ranking for a number of years if there was an injury so they do not have to fight unfavorable rankings ? Is this not the case and if it is, is pregnancy not covered?

No, there are no safeguards that would protect a ranking for an extended period if there was an injury. Many injured players have seen their ranking drop dramatically.

The French Open is following their own seeding rules. Nothing here to debate. The only debate, as pointed out by some of the players, is whether the rules should be changed in the future.

 

[VAMike23]

No, there are no safeguards that would protect a ranking for an extended period if there was an injury. Many injured players have seen their ranking drop dramatically.

The French Open is following their own seeding rules. Nothing here to debate. The only debate, as pointed out by some of the players, is whether the rules should be changed in the future.

Not sure how long the Special Ranking rule has been in place, but it does offer protection of the player's ranking, at least for players with a long-term injury-- those who have been out at least 6 mos., but less than 2 yrs. The ranking does not factor into seeding, though, and the number of tournaments where such a Special Ranking can be used to gain entry is also limited:

WTA Special Ranking rule

 

[JordyG]

Oh wow. A couple of points.

1) Serena's career speaks for itself and even though she is clearly not at her best, I think we should trust that a true champion knows if she is physically capable of being competitive. Would she enter the French Open just to be embarrassed? I am not saying she is ready to make a deep run (not her best surface) but she has earned that right imho.

2) As pointed out by others, inaccurate seeding like #453 (based on activity instead of ability) potentially hurts other seeds playing her too early.

3) I was under the impression that Tennis had safeguards that froze a player's ranking for a number of years if there was an injury so they do not have to fight unfavorable rankings ? Is this not the case and if it is, is pregnancy not covered?

4) Giving her a seed (lets say #20 for example) does not push the previous #20 seed to #453 but simply from #20 -> #21 (same for all the others below #20) which is an inconsequential difference.

5) Why do you hate the Williams Sisters?

Just kidding. Don't answer.

1) I agree. This is frankly the one player in WT history that has earned it.

3) No. No matter the reason for inactivity players cannot freeze their rankings. Since seedings are related to rankings it is supposedly commensurate, but is actually discretionary. Seeding rules are made to be bent.

5) I don't think you're really kidding. I just think like me you don't want to ignite the firestorm.

 

[wire chief]

A piece of related history. Bjorn Borg took 5 Wimbledons in a row. Then lost to McEnroe. Then skipped it the next year.
Then he asked Wimbledon if he could have a wild card--NOT a seed, a wild card. Wimbledon said "No".

 

[meyers7]

4) Giving her a seed (lets say #20 for example) does not push the previous #20 seed to #453 but simply from #20 -> #21 (same for all the others below #20) which is an inconsequential difference.

I don't think seedings work that way. If I understand it correctly, there are 32 seeds and the rest are in a draw. So if Williams was seeded, #32 would drop into the draw?

5) Why do you hate the Williams Sisters?

Just kidding. Don't answer.

5) I don't think you're really kidding. I just think like me you don't want to ignite the firestorm.

I've answered before. I'll be good now.

This just becomes another reason.

 

[JordyG]

A piece of related history. Bjorn Borg took 5 Wimbledons in a row. Then lost to McEnroe. Then skipped it the next year.
Then he asked Wimbledon if he could have a wild card--NOT a seed, a wild card. Wimbledon said "No".

One would expect that from Wimbledon where players are still required to wear white for cryin' out loud. But the French who pride themselves on forward thinking? Ultimately this is a rule that will be scrutinized and probably (hopefully) changed by the fiefdoms at French and at the US Open in the near future.

 

[JordyG]

I don't think seedings work that way. If I understand it correctly, there are 32 seeds and the rest are in a draw. So if Williams was seeded, #32 would drop into the draw?




I've answered before. I'll be good now.

This just becomes another reason.

I mean I get it. After all, who wants to hear me go on and on about how Jordan negatively impacted the game (not the business) of basketball.

 

[meyers7]

I mean I get it. After all, who wants to hear me go on and on about how Jordan negatively impacted the game (not the business) of basketball.

Jordan's my favorite BB player of all time.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

One would expect that from Wimbledon where players are still required to wear white for cryin' out loud. But the French who pride themselves on forward thinking?

The French Open was the last of the four Grand Slam tournaments to offer equal prize money to men and women.

French Open Extends Equal Pay to Women

 

[JordyG]

Jordan's my favorite BB player of all time.

And Serena is my favorite tennis player of all time. Do you get where I'm going?

 

[JordyG]

The French Open was the last of the four Grand Slam tournaments to offer equal prize money to men and women.

French Open Extends Equal Pay to Women

Can't like the result, but your point is well taken.

 

[meyers7]

And Serena is my favorite tennis player of all time. Do you get where I'm going?

If that's the case, I assume to hell.

(on the other hand, people keep bringing this stuff up, i.e. Williams/tennis, so obviously they want comments - pro or con - if that's were you were going)

 

[the Q]

I mean I get it. After all, who wants to hear me go on and on about how Jordan negatively impacted the game (not the business) of basketball.

I do!

Because I 100% agree. Him and Allen Iverson were miserable for the quality of product on the floor.

 

[the Q]

If that's the case, I assume to hell.

(on the other hand, people keep bringing this stuff up, i.e. Williams/tennis, so obviously they want comments - pro or con - if that's were you were going)

I like Venus alot because of how she's handled her business dealings off the court.

But I dislike their claim that 3=5. And that people caved into agreeing with them.

 

[VAMike23]

Jordan's my favorite BB player of all time.

Did you see any Bulls games live when he was playing? I was in Chicago for the first run of championships and saw a few games at the old Chicago Stadium. Wish I'd seen more. But the ones I did see were always front row, with waitress service, because they were tickets our company owned. Which was nice