semi-OT: Louisville

[upstater]

You can't tell me some people aren't regretting taking Louisville over UConn. This is foul.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

The posts on the UL boards are hilarious. One guy claiming ESPN has no right to look into this and they should be bound by NCAA rules like UL is. Apparently them practicing investigative journalism is interfering with the NCAA. Who knew?

Sounds like a page right out of Rutgers' book. When at fault, blame the press.

Then again, even Rutgers is not insane enough to provide adult entertainment on campus, in a dorm and not paying in cash. The Carroo 'incident' is concerning; but, how he met the alleged victim did get my attention.

http://www.mycentraljersey.com/stor...nte-carroo-charges-expected-dropped/73452894/

"A woman with whom Carroo previously was romantically involved and who at the time worked as a recruiting ambassador for Rutgers athletics..."​

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Espn running HARD with this story. Taking up 3/4 of sports center

With the 14/ hour of ESPN focused on what Kentucky's basketball players had for breakfast with behind the cameras, ESPN is helping Coach Cal develop new recruiting tools since his old standby from his UMass days just got outed by Pitino. Of course, this is all coincidental as what benefit would ESPN gain by chopping down the chief rival of their prized Wildcat brand?

 

[Chin Diesel]

One thing every organization has 100% control over is who they hire.

For a D-1 program like Louisville, no one gets on the staff without Pitino's consent. All Bball employees should have been briefed that any and all of their transgressions will be reflecred on Pitino.

Difficult to believe a grad asst director of Bball operations has the power to hatch the plan, think through the plan and execute the plan AND make sure no one from within the programs squeals. I doubt Pitino knew what was going on directly, but has hand-picked loyal assistant(s) did.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

Still, a woman who pimps her own daughters.damn. Reminds me of the lovely woman at the center of the Mayor Giordano Case in Waterbury. Though, she was worse.

I was thinking the same thing. Waterbury has had a collection of brad politicians, Giordano, Rowland, etc.

 

[DarthGrumpy]

I've been wondering what the NCAA would punish Louisville for. Improper Benefits? Maybe it's that easy.

It just seems like the NCAA has struggled with any illegal activity that's sorta outside the box (there's a joke there). The UNC thing is almost too big for the NCAA and they've struggled to determine punishment. This stripper/hooker thing may also be something the NCAA will struggle with. It seems more like a legal matter. I would not be surprised if the NCAA doesn't do much to Ville. They may let the law and the University deal with it, but do little themselves.

I agree that the legal issue will be the killer for Louisville, especially if the money used can be linked in anyway to the university; but, schools are punished all of the time for impermissible benefits, that are legal, just not allowed under NCAA rules such as use of a coach's cell phone, using a university property to wash a car, selling memorabilia for tattoos and cash, etc. I would (hopefully) assume that providing illegal never mind impermissible benefits carry a larger penalty, especially over the course of 4 years.

PS - Louisville is taken by the ACC over UConn in part due to Louisville's on the court success in basketball, which was apparently a mouthful, and that UConn was in probation for poor grades under a new rule that made such academic compliance retroactive to a period that UConn could do noting about. I wonder is such a decision is a tad hard to swallow now oh righteous ones from upstate NY, who themselves are now on probation, or the holier than thou folks from Chestnut Hill? I'm pretty sure that poor grades are not mentioned in the Bible as a sin, while prostitution is.

 

[upstater]

I agree that the legal issue will be the killer for Louisville, especially if the money used can be linked in anyway to the university; but, schools are punished all of the time for impermissible benefits, that are legal, just not allowed under NCAA rules such as use of a coach's cell phone, using a university property to wash a car, selling memorabilia for tattoos and cash, etc. I would (hopefully) assume that providing illegal never mind impermissible benefits carry a larger penalty, especially over the course of 4 years.

PS - Louisville is taken by the ACC over UConn in part due to Louisville's on the court success in basketball, which was apparently a mouthful, and that UConn was in probation for poor grades under a new rule that made such academic compliance retroactive to a period that UConn could do noting about. I wonder is such a decision is a tad hard to swallow now oh righteous ones from upstate NY, who themselves are now on probation, or the holier than thou folks from Chestnut Hill? I'm pretty sure that poor grades are not mentioned in the Bible as a sin, while prostitution is.

Louisville's football team was under APR probation for multiple years being under during the same time period as UConn BBall. The sequence was just off by a year.

 

[UCHuskies08]

This story is so amazing. She has a freaking journal LOL.

 

[Dogdeacon]

I'm with those that can't help but see the bigger violation is the mother who prostituted her own daughters.

Telling someone who isn't interested in sports or college basketball this story might be a way to better appreciate this perspective. The part about an assistant getting money from someone else is a trivial detail.

Ultimately the UofL basketball angle makes it a national story because of the power and money mixed with the salacious details. So Pitino and his staff did this for their own gain and glory and cover it up to protect that. A mother did this to her children for her own gain and continues to put that gain ahead of her children's interests. She can't help but grin during her interviews.

Even after prostituting her daughters she chooses to publish a book and put them on television talking about the times they were prostitutes?! Yuck. There ought to be a way to remove her "mother" title and get her fired.

 

[TXHuskyFan]

But you're nuts if you don't think other schools use girls in recruiting. The ville might just be a place where pros are necessary.

Filling in the missing line from this quote could pretty much confirm this.

"I knew they weren't college girls [like the girls that were provided to us recruits at every other school that was recruiting me]. It was crazy. It was like I was in a strip club."

 

[CallMeBruce]

A dump like Binghamton?

What the heck do you know about that SUNY? Not that I have a dog in this; however, you picked on a highly desirable - if you ask NY parents - research University. And, maybe you were choosing to go after the City. It is like lots of other mid-sized NE/NY former manufacturing places.

I'm not talking about the quality of the school, just that they have, in the past, looked the other way on questionable character players for the purpose of basketball relevance.

 

[UCHuskies08]

I'm with those that can't help but see the bigger violation is the mother who prostituted her own daughters.

Telling someone who isn't interested in sports or college basketball this story might be a way to better appreciate this perspective. The part about an assistant getting money from someone else is a trivial detail.

Ultimately the UofL basketball angle makes it a national story because of the power and money mixed with the salacious details. So Pitino and his staff did this for their own gain and glory and cover it up to protect that. A mother did this to her children for her own gain and continues to put that gain ahead of her children's interests. She can't help but grin during her interviews.

Even after prostituting her daughters she chooses to publish a book and put them on television talking about the times they were prostitutes?! Yuck. There ought to be a way to remove her "mother" title and get her fired.

The daughters clearly don't seem to be overly bothered by the situation. Everyone in life gets to make their choices.

 

[intlzncster]

And it all happens in the time period of the new ncaa rules where coaches are held liable for anything their assistants do.

Pitino's toast with the NCAA. That 2013 banner won't live long. Of course, UL won't fire him because they have lower standards than the escort involved.

That's what I thought about Gary Williams and UNC. Sweeeeep. Right under the rug.

That said, sex is more important than academics, and Louisville ain't sainted UNC, so you are probably right.

 

[intlzncster]

I have often wondered why Joanne has stayed with Pitino. I get the feeling that their relationship is probably dead and is now more of an agreed upon arrangement. He gets to do what he wants and she gets a boatload of money. They might not want to divorce given their Catholic upbringing. She may however want to reconsider things as I would think one rule of the arrangement was that Rick would not publicly embarrass her. He has now done that to her as well as her brother's memory.

Or maybe she loves him and was willing to forgive, no matter how hurtful. Who knows?

 

[CallMeBruce]

The interesting thing to see here will be, if this costs Pitino and Jurich their jobs and hinders fundraising to the point that it legitimately impacts the overall quality of athletics, what is the ACC going to do? This isn't like Rutgers, where their circus of an athletic department is the cost of doing business for the prestigious research institution and NYC market access. Louisville provides 0 off-the-field value. It's a longshot, but I could definitely see a move to expel them from the league on some sort of morality grounds or something.

 

[intlzncster]

I'll say it again: this will not be swept under the rug.
Not on a college campus it won't.

There is a lot of nervousness in the NCAA over this. All it takes is one Sally Jenkins article in the Washington Post to blow this whole thing up. Don't miss the obvious. More than 50% of the students on college campuses are women. The NCAA has to come down hard on this. If they don't, they risk a huge Goodell/Ray Rice backlash.

Funny how the thing at UNC is ostensibly less important, given that the primary purpose of an institution is education.

 

[intlzncster]

Some pretty rich quotes here:
Richard Pitino, Rick’s son and the head coach at Minnesota, told OTL on Tuesday: “I can say 100 percent sure with zero doubt that Rick Pitino knew nothing about these alleged incidents.”
Seton Hall coach Kevin Willard, a former Pitino assistant, also says Rick Pitino was not aware what was going on at the time. “Rick Pitino absolutely had no knowledge that these allegations were going on at anytime,” Willard told SNY.tv. “Anyone that has worked for Coach Pitino or is a friend of Coach knows this and supports him.”
100 percent zero doubt. Sure.

What do you expect them to say? Or do?

 

[CallMeBruce]

Funny how the thing at UNC is ostensibly less important, given that the primary purpose of an institution is education.

I mean, it's less important than not committing felonies, right?

 

[intlzncster]

Especially if she might even find herself in jail for this.

Tax fraud on top of it, I imagine.

 

[intlzncster]

I mean, it's less important than not committing felonies, right?

Technically only for one guy right (grad assistant) ? While a whole generation of students and athletes have sham degrees. The entire system and purpose of academia called into question. An academic institutions tax status (should) essentially called into question. Etc etc.

Morally, I could care less about this whole thing. I mean, the Bernie Fine thing is far, far worse.

 

[CallMeBruce]

Technically only for one guy right (grad assistant) ? While a whole generation of students and athletes have sham degrees. The entire system and purpose of academia called into question. An academic institutions tax status (should) essentially called into question. Etc etc.

Morally, I could care less about this whole thing. I mean, the Bernie Fine thing is far, far worse.

Maybe for one guy, but maybe not, especially if McGee wasn't paying out of pocket.

 

[CL82]

Maybe for one guy, but maybe not, especially if McGee wasn't paying out of pocket.

The Watergate rule: Follow the money.

 

[intlzncster]

Maybe for one guy, but maybe not, especially if McGee wasn't paying out of pocket.

Is that how it would work? So, let's say Pitino gives his assistants a fund to legally entertain recruits, and McGee uses it for parties/prostitutes instead, can Pitino be held liable under the law (not NCAA)? Assuming Pitino could get away with culpable deniability. Not snark. I've no idea myself.

 

[Inyatkin]

What do you expect them to say? Or do?

From his son, you'd expect it. Kevin Willard, though? Say you "can't imagine" he knew, not that it 100 percent didn't happen. Kevin Willard has no idea what Pitino knows

 

[intlzncster]

From his son, you'd expect it. Kevin Willard, though? Say you "can't imagine" he knew, not that it 100 percent didn't happen. Kevin Willard has no idea what Pitino knows

Depends how close they are I guess. I know some of JC's assistants were like sons to him, so in that instance, I could see it.

 

[CL82]

Is that how it would work? So, let's say Pitino gives his assistants a fund to legally entertain recruits, and McGee uses it for parties/prostitutes instead, can Pitino be held liable under the law (not NCAA)? Assuming Pitino could get away with culpable deniability. Not snark. I've no idea myself.

Are schools allowed to spend $10K to entice new recruits? I suspect not.

 

[intlzncster]

Are schools allowed to spend $10K to entice new recruits? I suspect not.

Obviously not as far as NCAA membership goes. I have zero idea under federal statutes.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Are schools allowed to spend $10K to entice new recruits? I suspect not.

Of course not, but the severity of the penalty will depend on whether this is just a recruiting violation, or an institutional control violation that may or may not have included committing a crime.

 

[CL82]

Of course not, but the severity of the penalty will depend on whether this is just a recruiting violation, or an institutional control violation that may or may not have included committing a crime.

My point is that even if you get rid of the sensationalism, you've still got a member of the coaching staff doing illegal recruiting. The prostitution is just bonus points.

Hard to come up with an argument that doesn't end with a lack of institutional control when a member of the coaching staff commits recruiting violations on a recurring basis, IMO, but I've been surprised by the NCAA's arbitrariness more than once.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

My point is that even if you get rid of the sensationalism, you've still got a member of the coaching staff doing illegal recruiting. The prostitution is just bonus points.

Hard to come up with an argument that doesn't end with a lack of institutional control when a member of the coaching staff commits recruiting violations on a recurring basis, IMO, but I've been surprised by the NCAA's arbitrariness more than once.

Oh, I see what you're saying - agree completely. Certainly seems like this is rampant lack of institutional control, whether Pitino knew or not. As for the legality, who knows. You're right though, with the NCAA's track record, I wouldn't expect more than a postseason ban for a year and a few scholarships lost.