SCOTUS rules against NCAA | Page 2 | The Boneyard

SCOTUS rules against NCAA

nelsonmuntz said:
To those shouting at Q right out of their butthole, you don't need to have an opinion on this. The IRS has already covered it.

Topic no. 421, Scholarships, fellowship grants, and other grants | Internal Revenue Service

Topic no. 421, Scholarships, fellowship grants, and other grants
www.irs.gov www.irs.gov

It looks like any compensation above tuition is going to be taxable.
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The IRS doc mentions travel as a taxable amount. College athletes travel (on the school's dime) to away games, tournaments, etc.,, wonder if the cost of that type of travel should be prorated among all on the bus or plane and reported as taxable income.
 
Chuck said:
The side effects will be super interesting to watch. In the end, I don't think this will be as seismic of a change as people think for the revenue sports. It'll just put much of the payments in the open. But there will be other shifts:
  • I agree about the non-revenue sports. Also, how does Title IX come into play? The ruling is about "limits on the education-related benefits that schools can provide to athletes." Kavanaugh made it clear that it could go beyond that under different facts, but that's dicta. Will that mean that the random women's team that exists to counter the football scholarships will have to get the same benefits? That could make this impact even more expensive. The math will have to result in a team not just being profitable, but profitable enough to pick up any extra costs.
  • Conferences with networks could benefit even more... or struggle more. They will have to encourage or require schools to keep the extraneous sports that fill out their programming. Nobody wants to see some of these sports, but they are necessary. Otherwise you'll wind up with a conference version of ESPN Classic (which I think is video on demand now).
  • As currently decided, I think the superior academic schools will play along. This is still technically tied to education, but it will expand and we'll see who follows. I think this would've been a bigger deal 20 years ago. Remember when Elton Brand decided to leave after one year and the Duke students were going off on him about not really being a Dukie because he wasn't loyal? Emails went viral (Early 2000's version) of him going back at some of the students. Now, most schools have come to grips with the dirty business of their revenue sports. All the ones you mentioned are super rich schools, with super rich alums. I think they'll play ball. They may even play more since they may not have been okay with bagmen dripping cash, but perfectly happy making public payments/benefits.
  • The Transfer Portal will become even crazier. If you are top player at a Mountain West school (but not NBA material), how do you not transfer to a crappy PAC12 school just for the benefits.
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Yeah it’ll probably have some impact - positive and negative. But ultimately, for all the handwringing, when toe meets leather or the ball is tipped most of this type of noise falls by the wayside. Ultimately I just want the kids wearing my school’s color to beat the other school, sometimes it is just that simple
 
huskiesouth said:
The IRS doc mentions travel as a taxable amount. College athletes travel (on the school's dime) to away games, tournaments, etc.,, wonder if the cost of that type of travel should be prorated among all on the bus or plane and reported as taxable income.
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Ugh again, if it’s not taxed now (or if it is taxed now!) what about today’s court ruling changed the status quo as it relates to travel expenses?
 
fleudslipcon said:
If "EVERYONE SUCKS" wouldn't that make Thanos only 1/2 right?
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Ultron was on the internet for 10 seconds and realized humanity needed to go….he might have been onto something lol
 
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Chuck said:
The side effects will be super interesting to watch. In the end, I don't think this will be as seismic of a change as people think for the revenue sports. It'll just put much of the payments in the open. But there will be other shifts:
  • I agree about the non-revenue sports. Also, how does Title IX come into play? The ruling is about "limits on the education-related benefits that schools can provide to athletes." Kavanaugh made it clear that it could go beyond that under different facts, but that's dicta. Will that mean that the random women's team that exists to counter the football scholarships will have to get the same benefits? That could make this impact even more expensive. The math will have to result in a team not just being profitable, but profitable enough to pick up any extra costs.
  • Conferences with networks could benefit even more... or struggle more. They will have to encourage or require schools to keep the extraneous sports that fill out their programming. Nobody wants to see some of these sports, but they are necessary. Otherwise you'll wind up with a conference version of ESPN Classic (which I think is video on demand now).
  • As currently decided, I think the superior academic schools will play along. This is still technically tied to education, but it will expand and we'll see who follows. I think this would've been a bigger deal 20 years ago. Remember when Elton Brand decided to leave after one year and the Duke students were going off on him about not really being a Dukie because he wasn't loyal? Emails went viral (Early 2000's version) of him going back at some of the students. Now, most schools have come to grips with the dirty business of their revenue sports. All the ones you mentioned are super rich schools, with super rich alums. I think they'll play ball. They may even play more since they may not have been okay with bagmen dripping cash, but perfectly happy making public payments/benefits.
  • The Transfer Portal will become even crazier. If you are top player at a Mountain West school (but not NBA material), how do you not transfer to a crappy PAC12 school just for the benefits.
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I think they will find out pretty quickly that except for a few players in a couple of sports, none of these players have any actual market wage value that even approaches the cost of a scholarship. You could roll out the exact same guys who play in UConn uniforms on one of Kevin Ollie's teams and I wouldn't watch, and few people would. People are cheering for the laundry, the brand, the logo.

In short, if the players have expectations that they are going to get wages above what they get now, I think 99% of them are wrong. The vast majority of D1 programs lose money. Most P5 ADs lose money. I'm thinking U Hartford probably made the right move, and others will now follow them.

Title IX is going to be fascinating. Because if you can now pay players based on their abilities, and their market value, then each of these schools would necessarily be sending almost all of that additional money to men.
 
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bendm said:
in avengers end game he changed his mind and said he was going to wipe out all life in the universe :cool:
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True although technically that was a "Thanos" from an alternate reality. So as far as we know only one Thanos accomplished life destruction.

Thought the same thing you did about the laptop reference. If we could go back in time and change when something happens we might have five NCs now.
 
huskiesouth said:
Law is my business, know nada about tax law.

Is a scholarship really taxable? A student does not receive a benefit($$) but rather an expense (tuition, room, board) is waived. If you don't incur the expense you receive no benefit.

Also, is a student an employee under current IRS and NLRB definitions (the PRO Act is not yet law)? If not, the school sends a 1099 to a scholarship student as a independent contractor who files a Schedule C claiming as expenses of being a independent cpntractor/student tuition, room, board, books, etc.
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Is a scholarship the same thing as winning the powerball?
 
fleudslipcon said:
True although technically that was a "Thanos" from an alternate reality. So as far as we know only one Thanos accomplished life destruction.
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Fleudy, I am impressed by the extent of you nerdom.

[hat tip gif]
 
I think some people are getting a little ahead of their skis here. The court did not end amateurism, they ruled that the NCAA’s current definition - and the rules they have in place to maintain that definition were far too restrictive.

Schools still are not allowed to pay athletes a wage. Athletes are still not designated as employees.

What this ruling ultimately did was set up a situation for future legislation and lawsuits to set the bounds for what constitutes “educational costs” or whatever it is they said.

The real big thing here is that the NCAA is subject to anti-trust laws and there’s really no reason why it shouldn’t be.
 
Guapo said:
I think some people are getting a little ahead of their skis here. The court did not end amateurism, they ruled that the NCAA’s current definition - and the rules they have in place to maintain that definition were far too restrictive.

Schools still are not allowed to pay athletes a wage. Athletes are still not designated as employees.

What this ruling ultimately did was set up a situation for future legislation and lawsuits to set the bounds for what constitutes “educational costs” or whatever it is they said.

The real big thing here is that the NCAA is subject to anti-trust laws and there’s really no reason why it shouldn’t be.
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The good news for UConn is that this ruling is a shot across the bow of the P5. If the NCAA is an anti-trust violation, than the football schools breaking off would definitely be one.

The bad news is that an arms race may be about to start, and UConn doesn't have the firepower to compete.
 
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nelsonmuntz said:
The good news for UConn is that this ruling is a shot across the bow of the P5. If the NCAA is an anti-trust violation, than the football schools breaking off would definitely be one.

The bad news is that an arms race may be about to start, and UConn doesn't have the firepower to compete.
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it’s really difficult to try and project the ultimate impact of all this. I could foresee certain scenarios that benefit UConn and ones that hurt UConn.

Ultimately, I tend to fall on the side that these things tend not to have the seismic impact people think they will; but we shall see
 
Cuse Socks said:
Kinda wild every justice went to either Harvard or Yale law besides Barrett I think
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It’s one big incestual party. That’s a big part of how they move up that far.
 
For fun. We know they all do.

E4atAkCXMAAFDRc.jpg
 
The ruling didn't directly take on NIL compensation, only ruled that the NCAA couldn't prevent the schools from providing additional educational benefits as part of their scholarships. For instance laptops.

The road from laptop to lap dance is short and quickly traveled. Anyone here think the latter has no educational value ?
 
mussels said:
The ruling didn't directly take on NIL compensation, only ruled that the NCAA couldn't prevent the schools from providing additional educational benefits as part of their scholarships. For instance laptops.

The road from laptop to lap dance is short and quickly traveled. Anyone here think the latter has no educational value ?
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They’re both “lap tops” if ya really think about it
 
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mussels said:
The ruling didn't directly take on NIL compensation, only ruled that the NCAA couldn't prevent the schools from providing additional educational benefits as part of their scholarships. For instance laptops.

The road from laptop to lap dance is short and quickly traveled. Anyone here think the latter has no educational value ?
Expand ...

Economics. Finite amount of cash needs to be spent wisely. Or unwisely.
 
Guapo said:
The real big thing here is that the NCAA is subject to anti-trust laws and there’s really no reason why it shouldn’t be.
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Agree and I posted in another thread I wonder if this decision plus the NIL push is effectively a death knell for NCAA. Without an anti-trust exemption it is all that much easier for a group like the P5 to split off for a single sport.
 
CL82 said:
Agree and I posted in another thread I wonder if this decision plus the NIL push is effectively a death knell for NCAA. Without an anti-trust exemption it is all that much easier for a group like the P5 to split off for a single sport.
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I think one of the great misconceptions out there is that the schools have an adversarial relationship with the NCAA. In fact, the NCAA exists to shield the schools from bad publicity and public acrimony. So, I don’t think the schools - including the football schools - really want the NCAA to go away entirely (and, just to be clear, the NCAA has very little control over football as things stand now). However, it’ll be greatly diminished and even more obviously a figurehead.

What my hope is, without an anti-trust exemption (which they might get via legislation or something btw), the NCAA’s rules regarding D1 divisions and conferences will go by the wayside. For instance, UHart isn’t dropping from D1 because they don’t want a basketball program. They’re dropping because they can’t support the 14 total programs needed to be D1. Therefore, I hope for the creation of more geographically and culturally rational conferences for basketball and football, specifically - and ones that would allow for the ability of schools like UHart to compete at a D1 level in specific sports, rather than all or nothing
 
Chin Diesel said:
I don't on w for sure but I do know I get up to about $7k in tuition payments before it goes from being a non-taxable benefit and it turns in to taxable income.
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And I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. Carry on.
 
If I were a P5 AD I’d be nervous. If I were designing the new football tournament I’d be leaning toward making it as open as possible. The anti trust piece being the most important piece of this.

Though I could see a plan along the lines of 1aa system or baseball or hockey. Most players don’t get full rides. 65 or some number of full equivalent scholarships for football, 6 or 7 far basketball. Nobody gets a full ride.
 
NCAA amateurism is dead. Whatever you thought the moving target that was the "collegiate model" is gone. The date for the dearly departed will go down as June 21, 2021, but really, the exit from this world was years in the making.

It's not just that amateurism is dead. The NCAA that strangled it might not be far behind.

www.cbssports.com

NCAA amateurism is effectively dead, and the association itself may not be far behind

The tenet upon which the NCAA's based is fading, and its power is quickly slipping away
www.cbssports.com www.cbssports.com
 
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I understand the concerns about the impact this will have on women’s and minor sports, but this ruling is so long overdue that it’s hard not to be happy about it. The NCAA has one of the grossest business models I’ve ever seen, so it’s pretty satisfying to see them get raked over the coals by the Supreme Court.

At the same time, it sounds like the NCAA can still add some restrictions on expenses for student-athletes. Maybe for once, they’ll find a reasonable middle-ground solution, such as limiting what schools can pay while allowing players to profit off their own likeness.

But I doubt it. They just extended that clown Emmert, so I’m sure it will be the same ‘ol nonsense from the NCAA in a different form.
 
the Q said:
They finally going to start taxing scholarships?

If theyre employees that is taxable income.

you cannot separate the two and claim otherwise
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Federal law is murky on this and always has been.

When I went to school in PA, the borough inside State College actually taxed our tuition scholarship. $2k every year. That was just the borough. When we looked up the law, it basically said that the Federal Gov't can tax it but chooses not to.
 
Matt Brown’s Extra Point view:

www.extrapointsmb.com

The NCAA's massive loss in Alston, explained:

Good morning, and thanks for your continued support of Extra Points. Because I'm a Serious Professional Journalist, my long-planned family vacation took place just as perhaps the biggest off-the-field college sports story of my lifetime dropped. On Monday, the Supreme Court issued their...
www.extrapointsmb.com
 
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