SCOTUS rules against NCAA

[Guapo]

Why aren’t room and board, the living stipend and other items “above” tuition not taxed now and how does today’s ruling change the status quo as it relates to those items?

So, actually they are taxable (see below).

Again, I ask how does today’s ruling change the status quo when it comes to these items?

 

[Guapo]

SMH, but laughing.

SMHBL

 

[Chin Diesel]

"Nowhere else in America can businesses get away with agreeing not to pay their workers a fair market rate on the theory that their product is defined by not paying their workers a fair market rate."

Boom. Mic drop.

 

[Chin Diesel]

So, actually they are taxable (see below).

Again, I ask how does today’s ruling change the status quo when it comes to these items?

I said this in another thread a few months ago.

We are transitioning from athletes being declared ineligible for illegal benefits to athletes being ineligible for going to jail for tax evasion.

Every university better have a well-staffed tax preparation and assistance dept to keep athletes eligible.

 

[Guapo]

I said this in another thread a few months ago.

We are transitioning from athletes being declared ineligible for illegal benefits to athletes being ineligible for going to jail for tax evasion.

Every university better have a well-staffed tax preparation and assistance dept to keep athletes eligible.

With the forthcoming NIL rules, many schools (including UConn - there was an article a few days back) have set up offices to help athletes navigate these waters, or outsourced the help to law firms. I assume tax stuff would be part of that.

 

[Chin Diesel]

With the forthcoming NIL rules, many schools (including UConn - there was an article a few days back) have set up offices to help athletes navigate these waters, or outsourced the help to law firms. I assume tax stuff would be part of that.

Some will do better than others. And if I were a parent I would make that a big part of my kid's recruiting process.

 

[Waquoit]

Who would have thought that UConn would get a shoutout in a SCOTUS case

"To be sure, the NCAA and its member colleges maintain important traditions that have become part of the fabric of America—game days in Tuscaloosa and South Bend; the packed gyms in Storrs and Durham"

That was a shout to the women's team.

 

[superjohn]

This is a dark day for any athlete that has a scholarship in a non-revenue sport. They are screwed. It is going to be a lot more expensive to carry them now than it used to be, and schools will start slashing costs.

I also question what the top academic schools that are D1 will do. Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgetown and Rice consider the Ivies and the UAA schools their competition, not NC State or Oregon State. It will be interesting to see how far they are willing to go to compete with other P1 schools, or if they will pull out of the conferences eventually.

I agree with this but this is what people seem to want. Non-revenue sports and women's sports are on their last legs.

 

[The Shot]

This is a dark day for any athlete that has a scholarship in a non-revenue sport. They are screwed. It is going to be a lot more expensive to carry them now than it used to be, and schools will start slashing costs.

I also question what the top academic schools that are D1 will do. Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgetown and Rice consider the Ivies and the UAA schools their competition, not NC State or Oregon State. It will be interesting to see how far they are willing to go to compete with other P1 schools, or if they will pull out of the conferences eventually.

I get that it sucks for non-revenue student athletes but they are by and large from socioeconomic classes that don’t have as much of a need. The current model is pretty bad.

“We find that the prevailing model rests on taking the money generated by athletes who are more likely to be Black and come from low-income neighborhoods and transferring it to sports played by athletes who are more likely to be white and from higher-income neighborhoods,” the researchers write in a recent Brookings Institution article.

 

[Waquoit]

This is a dark day for any athlete that has a scholarship in a non-revenue sport. They are screwed. It is going to be a lot more expensive to carry them now than it used to be, and schools will start slashing costs.

Eh, at the end of the day, who cares? I'm hoping it's a dark day for the $2M assistant FB coach.

 

[Chuck]

This is a dark day for any athlete that has a scholarship in a non-revenue sport. They are screwed. It is going to be a lot more expensive to carry them now than it used to be, and schools will start slashing costs.

I also question what the top academic schools that are D1 will do. Stanford, Northwestern, Duke, Vanderbilt, Georgetown and Rice consider the Ivies and the UAA schools their competition, not NC State or Oregon State. It will be interesting to see how far they are willing to go to compete with other P1 schools, or if they will pull out of the conferences eventually.

The side effects will be super interesting to watch. In the end, I don't think this will be as seismic of a change as people think for the revenue sports. It'll just put much of the payments in the open. But there will be other shifts:

• I agree about the non-revenue sports. Also, how does Title IX come into play? The ruling is about "limits on the education-related benefits that schools can provide to athletes." Kavanaugh made it clear that it could go beyond that under different facts, but that's dicta. Will that mean that the random women's team that exists to counter the football scholarships will have to get the same benefits? That could make this impact even more expensive. The math will have to result in a team not just being profitable, but profitable enough to pick up any extra costs.
• Conferences with networks could benefit even more... or struggle more. They will have to encourage or require schools to keep the extraneous sports that fill out their programming. Nobody wants to see some of these sports, but they are necessary. Otherwise you'll wind up with a conference version of ESPN Classic (which I think is video on demand now).
• As currently decided, I think the superior academic schools will play along. This is still technically tied to education, but it will expand and we'll see who follows. I think this would've been a bigger deal 20 years ago. Remember when Elton Brand decided to leave after one year and the Duke students were going off on him about not really being a Dukie because he wasn't loyal? Emails went viral (Early 2000's version) of him going back at some of the students. Now, most schools have come to grips with the dirty business of their revenue sports. All the ones you mentioned are super rich schools, with super rich alums. I think they'll play ball. They may even play more since they may not have been okay with bagmen dripping cash, but perfectly happy making public payments/benefits.
• The Transfer Portal will become even crazier. If you are top player at a Mountain West school (but not NBA material), how do you not transfer to a crappy PAC12 school just for the benefits.

 

[huskiesouth]

To those shouting at Q right out of their butthole, you don't need to have an opinion on this. The IRS has already covered it.

Topic no. 421, Scholarships, fellowship grants, and other grants | Internal Revenue Service

Topic No. 421 Scholarships, Fellowship Grants, and Other Grants

www.irs.gov

It looks like any compensation above tuition is going to be taxable.

The IRS doc mentions travel as a taxable amount. College athletes travel (on the school's dime) to away games, tournaments, etc.,, wonder if the cost of that type of travel should be prorated among all on the bus or plane and reported as taxable income.

 

[Guapo]

The side effects will be super interesting to watch. In the end, I don't think this will be as seismic of a change as people think for the revenue sports. It'll just put much of the payments in the open. But there will be other shifts:

• I agree about the non-revenue sports. Also, how does Title IX come into play? The ruling is about "limits on the education-related benefits that schools can provide to athletes." Kavanaugh made it clear that it could go beyond that under different facts, but that's dicta. Will that mean that the random women's team that exists to counter the football scholarships will have to get the same benefits? That could make this impact even more expensive. The math will have to result in a team not just being profitable, but profitable enough to pick up any extra costs.
• Conferences with networks could benefit even more... or struggle more. They will have to encourage or require schools to keep the extraneous sports that fill out their programming. Nobody wants to see some of these sports, but they are necessary. Otherwise you'll wind up with a conference version of ESPN Classic (which I think is video on demand now).
• As currently decided, I think the superior academic schools will play along. This is still technically tied to education, but it will expand and we'll see who follows. I think this would've been a bigger deal 20 years ago. Remember when Elton Brand decided to leave after one year and the Duke students were going off on him about not really being a Dukie because he wasn't loyal? Emails went viral (Early 2000's version) of him going back at some of the students. Now, most schools have come to grips with the dirty business of their revenue sports. All the ones you mentioned are super rich schools, with super rich alums. I think they'll play ball. They may even play more since they may not have been okay with bagmen dripping cash, but perfectly happy making public payments/benefits.
• The Transfer Portal will become even crazier. If you are top player at a Mountain West school (but not NBA material), how do you not transfer to a crappy PAC12 school just for the benefits.

Yeah it’ll probably have some impact - positive and negative. But ultimately, for all the handwringing, when toe meets leather or the ball is tipped most of this type of noise falls by the wayside. Ultimately I just want the kids wearing my school’s color to beat the other school, sometimes it is just that simple

 

[Guapo]

The IRS doc mentions travel as a taxable amount. College athletes travel (on the school's dime) to away games, tournaments, etc.,, wonder if the cost of that type of travel should be prorated among all on the bus or plane and reported as taxable income.

Ugh again, if it’s not taxed now (or if it is taxed now!) what about today’s court ruling changed the status quo as it relates to travel expenses?

 

[ctchamps]

Maybe you missed my avatar….

If "EVERYONE SUCKS" wouldn't that make Thanos only 1/2 right?

 

[bendm]

If "EVERYONE SUCKS" wouldn't that make Thanos only 1/2 right?

in avengers end game he changed his mind and said he was going to wipe out all life in the universe

 

[the Q]

If "EVERYONE SUCKS" wouldn't that make Thanos only 1/2 right?

Ultron was on the internet for 10 seconds and realized humanity needed to go….he might have been onto something lol

 

[HuskyHawk]

The side effects will be super interesting to watch. In the end, I don't think this will be as seismic of a change as people think for the revenue sports. It'll just put much of the payments in the open. But there will be other shifts:

• I agree about the non-revenue sports. Also, how does Title IX come into play? The ruling is about "limits on the education-related benefits that schools can provide to athletes." Kavanaugh made it clear that it could go beyond that under different facts, but that's dicta. Will that mean that the random women's team that exists to counter the football scholarships will have to get the same benefits? That could make this impact even more expensive. The math will have to result in a team not just being profitable, but profitable enough to pick up any extra costs.
• Conferences with networks could benefit even more... or struggle more. They will have to encourage or require schools to keep the extraneous sports that fill out their programming. Nobody wants to see some of these sports, but they are necessary. Otherwise you'll wind up with a conference version of ESPN Classic (which I think is video on demand now).
• As currently decided, I think the superior academic schools will play along. This is still technically tied to education, but it will expand and we'll see who follows. I think this would've been a bigger deal 20 years ago. Remember when Elton Brand decided to leave after one year and the Duke students were going off on him about not really being a Dukie because he wasn't loyal? Emails went viral (Early 2000's version) of him going back at some of the students. Now, most schools have come to grips with the dirty business of their revenue sports. All the ones you mentioned are super rich schools, with super rich alums. I think they'll play ball. They may even play more since they may not have been okay with bagmen dripping cash, but perfectly happy making public payments/benefits.
• The Transfer Portal will become even crazier. If you are top player at a Mountain West school (but not NBA material), how do you not transfer to a crappy PAC12 school just for the benefits.

I think they will find out pretty quickly that except for a few players in a couple of sports, none of these players have any actual market wage value that even approaches the cost of a scholarship. You could roll out the exact same guys who play in UConn uniforms on one of Kevin Ollie's teams and I wouldn't watch, and few people would. People are cheering for the laundry, the brand, the logo.

In short, if the players have expectations that they are going to get wages above what they get now, I think 99% of them are wrong. The vast majority of D1 programs lose money. Most P5 ADs lose money. I'm thinking U Hartford probably made the right move, and others will now follow them.

Title IX is going to be fascinating. Because if you can now pay players based on their abilities, and their market value, then each of these schools would necessarily be sending almost all of that additional money to men.

 

[ctchamps]

in avengers end game he changed his mind and said he was going to wipe out all life in the universe

True although technically that was a "Thanos" from an alternate reality. So as far as we know only one Thanos accomplished life destruction.

Thought the same thing you did about the laptop reference. If we could go back in time and change when something happens we might have five NCs now.

 

[UConnSwag11]

Law is my business, know nada about tax law.

Is a scholarship really taxable? A student does not receive a benefit($$) but rather an expense (tuition, room, board) is waived. If you don't incur the expense you receive no benefit.

Also, is a student an employee under current IRS and NLRB definitions (the PRO Act is not yet law)? If not, the school sends a 1099 to a scholarship student as a independent contractor who files a Schedule C claiming as expenses of being a independent cpntractor/student tuition, room, board, books, etc.

Is a scholarship the same thing as winning the powerball?

 

[CL82]

True although technically that was a "Thanos" from an alternate reality. So as far as we know only one Thanos accomplished life destruction.

Fleudy, I am impressed by the extent of you nerdom.

[hat tip gif]

 

[Guapo]

I think some people are getting a little ahead of their skis here. The court did not end amateurism, they ruled that the NCAA’s current definition - and the rules they have in place to maintain that definition were far too restrictive.

Schools still are not allowed to pay athletes a wage. Athletes are still not designated as employees.

What this ruling ultimately did was set up a situation for future legislation and lawsuits to set the bounds for what constitutes “educational costs” or whatever it is they said.

The real big thing here is that the NCAA is subject to anti-trust laws and there’s really no reason why it shouldn’t be.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

I think some people are getting a little ahead of their skis here. The court did not end amateurism, they ruled that the NCAA’s current definition - and the rules they have in place to maintain that definition were far too restrictive.

Schools still are not allowed to pay athletes a wage. Athletes are still not designated as employees.

What this ruling ultimately did was set up a situation for future legislation and lawsuits to set the bounds for what constitutes “educational costs” or whatever it is they said.

The real big thing here is that the NCAA is subject to anti-trust laws and there’s really no reason why it shouldn’t be.

The good news for UConn is that this ruling is a shot across the bow of the P5. If the NCAA is an anti-trust violation, than the football schools breaking off would definitely be one.

The bad news is that an arms race may be about to start, and UConn doesn't have the firepower to compete.

 

[Guapo]

The good news for UConn is that this ruling is a shot across the bow of the P5. If the NCAA is an anti-trust violation, than the football schools breaking off would definitely be one.

The bad news is that an arms race may be about to start, and UConn doesn't have the firepower to compete.

it’s really difficult to try and project the ultimate impact of all this. I could foresee certain scenarios that benefit UConn and ones that hurt UConn.

Ultimately, I tend to fall on the side that these things tend not to have the seismic impact people think they will; but we shall see

 

[Mr. French]

Kinda wild every justice went to either Harvard or Yale law besides Barrett I think

It’s one big incestual party. That’s a big part of how they move up that far.