Scott Gray Today

[epperson]

Do you think UF will help FSU get into SEC or South Carolina will help Clemson? After the SEC expanded, i m sure there were all kinds of side deals getting cut. In those dealings i m willing to bet than alliances were formed to keep certain universities out of the SEC at any cost.

"Gentleman's Agreement" is what prevented GT from rejoining the SEC. Florida would never allow FSU to encroach on its SEC market in it's own backyard.

The exceptions of course are built-in historical rivalries which are viewed as an asset as opposed to a liability. Examples: Duke-UNC, FSU-Miami, BC-'Cuse, VT-UVA

 

[HuskyHawk]

I would add FSU, GT and Clemson. Football is driving expansion possibilities, not Hoops.

For the Conference to remain intact, financially sound and relevant, Football success is the goal.

The only scenario beneficial for UConn is if the SEC poaches FSU, Clemson or VT. Given the built-in politics of the SEC, this is highly unlikely.

Why is this unlikely? I think it probably will happen. The SEC needs an eastern team. There are no credible alternatives except those in the ACC and WVU.

 

[epperson]

Why is this unlikely? I think it probably will happen. The SEC needs an eastern team. There are no credible alternatives except those in the ACC and WVU.

Even if Florida approved FSU, it would open up tension with other incumbent members of the SEC. South Carolina would face the same questions about adding Clemson. Georgia would have revisit the application of GT.

So I think Southern politics would ultimately decide on SEC expansion. Along those lines, I think WVU has a stronger case than any ACC School.

 

[toppencil]

"Gentleman's Agreement" is what prevented GT from rejoining the SEC. Florida would never allow FSU to encroach on its SEC market in it's own backyard.

The exceptions of course are built-in historical rivalries which are viewed as an asset as opposed to a liability. Examples: Duke-UNC, FSU-Miami, BC-'Cuse, VT-UVA

Florida State and Florida play each other every year. They are also a good distance apart. Florida State to the SEC should not effect Florida at all.

 

[BBNBE]

Florida State and Florida play each other every year. They are also a good distance apart. Florida State to the SEC should not effect Florida at all.

Cleary you need to brush up on your college football history.

 

[epperson]

Florida State and Florida play each other every year. They are also a good distance apart. Florida State to the SEC should not effect Florida at all.

The SEC is a money-making machine. Each member school wants to retain exclusivity within their home state to avoid market saturation and redundancy.

In the case of preexisting rivalries like Duke-UNC, the in-state competition provides mutual benefits.

The difference is Florida would continue to excel as the sole SEC team in their state. If FSU joined, they would encroach on Florida.

If Duke or UNC defected to another conference, both teams would suffer since "success" in their eyes are measured against each other.

 

[toppencil]

Cleary you need to brush up on your college football history.

How?? It's a huge rivalry game.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida–Florida_State_football_rivalry

 

[toppencil]

The SEC is a money-making machine. Each member school wants to retain exclusivity within their home state to avoid market saturation and redundancy.

In the case of preexisting rivalries like Duke-UNC, the in-state competition provides mutual benefits.

The difference is Florida would continue to excel as the sole SEC team in their state. If FSU joined, they would encroach on Florida.

If Duke or UNC defected to another conference, both teams would suffer since "success" in their eyes are measured against each other.

No they would not. They play each other every year, since 1958.

 

[epperson]

No they would not. They play each other every year, since 1958.

It doesn't mean Florida is willing to approve FSU. The State boasts one of the best recruiting grounds and the SEC is clearly the best Football Conference. Why would Florida be willing to share this lofty position with FSU when they can keep it for themselves?

It's untenable.

 

[upstater]

The SEC is a money-making machine. Each member school wants to retain exclusivity within their home state to avoid market saturation and redundancy.

In the case of preexisting rivalries like Duke-UNC, the in-state competition provides mutual benefits.

The difference is Florida would continue to excel as the sole SEC team in their state. If FSU joined, they would encroach on Florida.

If Duke or UNC defected to another conference, both teams would suffer since "success" in their eyes are measured against each other.

The market idea is totally bogus, ratings too. Just because you are in one market doesn't mean the ratings benefits are thereby redundant. You play 1 game a week. Surely, the SEC can have two SEC games being played by Florida teams each week. That's not redundant at all. It's double the money.

The recruiting question is a whole other ball of wax, but I'm sure FSU isn't sweating it since they've always recruited pretty well even in comparison to Florida. Not sure why Florida is sweating it either.

 

[epperson]

The market idea is totally bogus, ratings too. Just because you are in one market doesn't mean the ratings benefits are thereby redundant. You play 1 game a week. Surely, the SEC can have two SEC games being played by Florida teams each week. That's not redundant at all. It's double the money.

This is absurd. Entire industries are carved out through market share and creation of scarcity. College Athletics is Big Business. They are no exception.

Unless the SEC's hands are forced through the market from competing conferences, Florida has no beneficial up-side in adding FSU when they could enjoy exclusivity. And since they're in a position of strength, it would be in their strategic interest to explore new markets like WVU as opposed to adding to existing bases in the State of Florida.

The recruiting question is a whole other ball of wax, but I'm sure FSU isn't sweating it since they've always recruited pretty well even in comparison to Florida. Not sure why Florida is sweating it either.

They're not but why would Florida do any favors for FSU at the risk of bolstering an in-state recruiting rival? It makes zero sense.

 

[Chin Diesel]

It doesn't mean Florida is willing to approve FSU. The State boasts one of the best recruiting grounds and the SEC is clearly the best Football Conference. Why would Florida be willing to share this lofty position with FSU when they can keep it for themselves?

It's untenable.

Florida doesn't own the state's recruiting. FSU can walk in to any living room in the state and make a pitch to any player.

FSU would greatly expand the SEC's footprint in Florida. FSU has a large fanbase in every media market in Florida and Seminole fans never watch UF games.

FSU is branded throughout the state. It's way beyond the Tallahassee MSA.

FSU had a much higher profile than UF for 25-30 years. It's only been the past decade where UF has surpassed FSU.

 

[epperson]

Florida doesn't own the state's recruiting. FSU can walk in to any living room in the state and make a pitch to any player.

Who said anything about monopoly? I said that Florida enjoyed SEC exclusivity in its home state. Given the obvious--SEC's status--why would Florida share this arrangement with an in-state rival?

FSU would greatly expand the SEC's footprint in Florida. FSU has a large fanbase in every media market in Florida and Seminole fans never watch UF games.

It's redundancy. Diversification of markets is what driving expansion. "Expansion" into new markets for greater television hegemony.

FSU is branded throughout the state. It's way beyond the Tallahassee MSA.

Goldman is a juggernaut but why would they do any favor for Morgan Stanley unless they were benefits for Goldman?

FSU had a much higher profile than UF for 25-30 years. It's only been the past decade where UF has surpassed FSU.

By your own admission, Florida surpassed FSU. So why throw them a bone? To level the field? College Football is big money. Why share the slice of the profits when it took them this long to surpass FSU?

 

[Chin Diesel]

New



You missed the point. Think of it more like seeing Home Depot and Lowe's stores across the intersection, McD's and Burger King next to each other or two banks next to each other. Ever see two Marriott hotel brands side by side near an airport? And two Hilton brand hotels right next to them?

There is something to be said for market saturation when the market is as big as FSU in Florida.

What I said is that Florida is currently ahead of FSU and that it has been a recent swap. FSU can easily get ahead of UF again.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Epperson,

You are just wrong on FSU, and I believe the slowdown in Missouri to the SEC is that there is a block within the SEC working on Florida because they would rather have FSU than Missouri.

 

[upstater]

They're not but why would Florida do any favors for FSU at the risk of bolstering an in-state recruiting rival? It makes zero sense.

What's absurd is the trajectory of your posts

 

[WestHartHusk]

New

You missed the point. Think of it more like seeing Home Depot and Lowe's stores across the intersection, McD's and Burger King next to each other or two banks next to each other. Ever see two Marriott hotel brands side by side near an airport? And two Hilton brand hotels right next to them?

There is something to be said for market saturation when the market is as big as FSU in Florida.

What I said is that Florida is currently ahead of FSU and that it has been a recent swap. FSU can easily get ahead of UF again.

This analogy only works if Lowes asked Home Deport or McD's asked Burger King to build a store right next to them. They did not and, trust me, if either could prevent the other from building, they would. That is what we are seeing with the conference realignments - Lowes finding a way to outmaneuver Home Deport for paying customers to increase revenue. Simple as that.

Now, how this is non-profit behaviour befuddles me. It's really a small, profit seeking tail wagging the larger, often public, institution whose objective (and reason for non-profit status) is the education of our citizens. In a lot of ways I think this is an allegory for what is happening to the country at large. I guess we should start expecting to see the Nature Conservancy out-muscle the Sierra Club. Sure, they'll protect less wildlife, but they'll 'win' and have a larger endowment. That is the point right?!

 

[toppencil]

I would agee that Florida would agressively block most florida schools, Miami, USF & UCF, because their fan bases are relatively small compared to Florida. FSU has a huge loyal fan base, it is a good fit for the SEC.

Florida had a slight edge in recruiting under Urban Myer, but that's over. There are a number of factors in recruiting, who is coach is probably the most important. Historically, both schools have had little trouble finding plenty of blue chip players.

FSU in the SEC won't hurt Florida at all.

 

[gioff23]

ESPN probably told him to take UConn, and he didn't deliver. I wonder how much this is going to cost him in the TV contract.[/quote]


You have to hope our esteeemed Governor will remind the boys in Bristol that we offered hundreds of millions in tax incentives last month in an effort to provide benefits to the entire state, including that lil ole institution based in Storrs.

 

[CL82]

2 division format? Was that ever on the table?

It also appears that UConn have virtually no chance of joining the ACC because Miami, VTech and BCU will oppose us at every turn. Beg harder.

 

[epperson]

What's absurd is the trajectory of your posts

Deep.

 

[TRest]

Do you have a reliable source for this?

I don't believe UConn was ever voted on by ACC members. The 444 Committee explored expansion possibilities--which schools were viewed favorably or unfavorably. It is in this Committee which GDF is a board member of.

Unless it has been linked somewhere, I find it astonishing so many people would believe anything Scott Gray bleats out. I haven't seen anywhere these 3 schools voting or otherwise blocking UConn when its name came up, just BC. And the 2 division thing is something I have never heard mention in relation to TCU's demands, it committed to a BE with only 8 football members. Gray has been spouting off about having 12 football schools and splitting as a way to preserve the BCS bid, and has decided that the BE's failure to do so has somehow caused an opening in the B12 that TCU was able to fill.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I would agee that Florida would agressively block most florida schools, Miami, USF & UCF, because their fan bases are relatively small compared to Florida. FSU has a huge loyal fan base, it is a good fit for the SEC.

Florida had a slight edge in recruiting under Urban Myer, but that's over. There are a number of factors in recruiting, who is coach is probably the most important. Historically, both schools have had little trouble finding plenty of blue chip players.

FSU in the SEC won't hurt Florida at all.

Agreed. FSU and UF are arms of the state of Florida. FSU to the SEC is good for the SEC and good for the state of Florida.

The Home Depot and Lowes analogy is poor. Try KFC and Taco Bell who are owned by the same company, as these two schools essentially are. The taxpayers in Florida should lose their minds if UF does anything but encourage FSU to the SEC.

 

[epperson]

You missed the point. Think of it more like seeing Home Depot and Lowe's stores across the intersection, McD's and Burger King next to each other or two banks next to each other. Ever see two Marriott hotel brands side by side near an airport? And two Hilton brand hotels right next to them?

It's a faulty analogy since Home Depot can't control the building-permit process in every business district in which their stores are located.

Conversely, Florida has enough political clout to nuke any prospective in-state rival from joining their conference.

There is something to be said for market saturation when the market is as big as FSU in Florida.

I was alluding to market saturation within a conference. If expanded beyond state boundaries, the reach will obviously be bigger. If concentrated internally, the market could saturate.