Scott Gray Today

[UConn9604]

Did anyone listen to Scott Gray today?

http://connecticut.cbslocal.com/2011/10/11/sports-commentary-101111/

He brought up some points that I had never heard before (and trust me, I've been searching and reading every source I can get my hands on), including:

- TCU was able to back out of the Big East without penalty because the Big East had failed to create a two-division football format or address the non-football schools (?);
- Syracuse and Pittsburgh were not the two schools coveted most by the ACC (I agree with Blaudschun's Pittsburgh sentiments, but I can't see there being another school that they'd want more than Syracuse...?);
- most significantly, when discussing DeFilippo's fears about UConn, that both Miami and Virginia Tech voted against us (the only discussions I had previously heard were that we never made it out of the three-person expansion committee, because DeFilippo was on that committee, and I can't see them packing a three-person committee with the three ex-Big East teams); and
- that Swofford was quoted as saying that "it makes sense to expand in ESPN's backyard" (I can't find this anywhere).

Anyone?

 

[BlueMAB]

There was no three person expansion committee. It's a 12 person expansion committee with each school represented. DeFillipo is on the committee.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...tried-to-keep-secret-20110926,0,1088304.story

 

[SAMCRO]

Decent read, thanks for posting. 2 things I'd disagree with:
Gray says "It’s also no secret they will not bring the necessary panache to maintain BCS status."
Not true, the league actually gets stronger with SU leaving, and majority of teams mentioned are better than SU. Plus, the BE is not in real danger of losing it's AQ status, despite what the media will have you believe.

Gray writes "Among the reasons TCU jumped so quickly to the Big 12 was the failure of the Big East to have a two division all football league in place and the failure to address the future of the seven non football schools"
Not true. TCU would have jumped at a B12 offer even if Pitt and SU remained in the BE. It just makes too much sense. They've wanted to be back with their Texas school partners since the SWC broke up and they weren't invited to the B12.

 

[SAMCRO]

There was no three person expansion committee. It's a 12 person expansion committee with each school represented.

I'm interpreting his comment to mean the 12 person expansion committee reviewed and then voted on teams to recommend to the 12 ACC Presidents to consider for invitations to apply to the ACC. In that scenario, Flipper only needed 2 more "no votes" from the committee of 12 to ensure UConn was not on the list of recommended schools presented to the 12 ACC's Presidents. Just a guess, but seems to make sense.

 

[UConn9604]

There was no three person expansion committee. It's a 12 person expansion committee with each school represented. DeFillipo is on the committee.

http://www.dailypress.com/sports/te...tried-to-keep-secret-20110926,0,1088304.story

Thanks.

Not true. TCU would have jumped at a B12 offer even if Pitt and SU remained in the BE. It just makes too much sense. They've wanted to be back with their Texas school partners since the SWC broke up and they weren't invited to the B12.

I agree -- anyone who thought that TCU was dedicated to the Big East, come heck or high water, is crazy. They have been begging for a Big-12 invite and everything worked out in their favor. I'm happy for them, actually.

 

[BlueMAB]

Plus, the BE is not in real danger of losing it's AQ status, despite what the media will have you believe.

That may or may not be true. Here are the qualification guidelines through 2014 bowl games. It doesn't say anything about what the guidelines will be from 2014-15 moving forward.

BCS Releases Future Automatic Qualification Standards

Press Release - Bowl Championship Series
April 22, 2010

At its annual spring meeting held in Phoenix, Arizona, the 11 commissioners representing all the conferences of major college football discussed the possibility that a seventh conference could automatically qualify for a BCS bowl game in 2012 and 2013. "On-field performance will determine whether there's a seventh AQ conference," BCS Executive Director Bill Hancock said. "Last season was the second year of a four-year evaluation period. If another conference meets the threshold, it will automatically earn an automatic berth for its champion."
The formula for determining future conference automatic qualification is outlined below.
About the Bowl Championship Series
The BCS is a five-game arrangement for post-season college football that is managed by the 11 Bowl Subdivision conferences and Notre Dame. Its purpose is to match the two top-ranked teams in a national championship game and to create competitive match-ups in the four other BCS bowl games.
BCS Future Automatic Qualification Standards
Under the terms of the agreements with the bowls and television rightsholder, the ACC, Big East, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-10 and SEC will have annual automatic qualification for their champions for the 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13 and 2013-14 seasons.
Results from the 2008, 2009, 2010 and 2011 regular seasons will be evaluated to determine whether a seventh conference earns automatic qualification for the 2012-13 and 2013-14 bowl games. The process is as follows:
*The evaluation includes the following for each conference

• (1) the ranking of the highest-ranked team in the final BCS Standings each year (if a conference does not place a team in the final BCS Standings, then its highest-ranked team is determined by the conference member that has the highest average ranking in the computer rankings used in the BCS Standings),
• (2) the final regular-season rankings of all conference teams in the computer rankings used by the BCS each year, and
• (3) the number of teams in the top 25 of the final BCS Standings each year, with adjustments to account for differences in the number of members of each conference.

A conference will become the seventh automatic qualifier if it finishes among the top six conferences in both No. 1 and No. 2 and if its ranking in No. 3 is equal to or greater than 50 percent of the conference with the highest ranking in No. 3.
*Further, a conference will be eligible to apply to the Presidential Oversight Committee for an exemption if it finishes among the top six in both No. 1 and No. 2 and if its ranking in No. 3 is equal to or greater than 33.3 percent of the conference with the highest ranking in No. 3, OR if it finishes among the top seven in either No. 1 or No. 2 and among the top five in the other and if its ranking in No. 3 is equal to or greater than 33.3 percent of the conference with the highest ranking in No. 3.
No. 3 above, the "Top 25 Performance Rating," will be calculated as follows: Points will be awarded to the conferences based on their teams' finishes in the top 25 of the final BCS Standings each year. Points will be awarded as follows:

• Teams finishing 1-6: 4 points for each team
• Teams finishing 7-12: 3 points for each team
• Teams finishing 13-18: 2 points for each team
• Teams finishing 19-25: 1 point for each team

The point totals will be adjusted to account for the size of the conference, as follows:

• Conference membership | Adjustment
• 12 or more members | no adjustment
• 10 or 11 members | points increased by 12.5 percent
• 9 or fewer members | points increased by 25 percent
• *The computations will be made according to the conference's membership on Dec. 4, 2011.

 

[SAMCRO]

Those are criteria for being considered as a 7th AQ conference. It's not a criteria for being stripped of AQ status.

 

[Waquoit]

Scott Gray? "The Rams are moving to Hartford" Scott Gray?

 

[BlueMAB]

Those are criteria for being considered as a 7th AQ conference. It's not a criteria for being stripped of AQ status.

Correct, but we don't have to be stripped.

The BCS agreement is in place through 2014 bowl games. The requirements can then be changed to whatever they agree to, and we could definitely be in the position where we don't meet the requirements.

It wouldn't be taken away, it would expire. And then we would have to meet the new requirements.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

2 division format? Was that ever on the table?

It also appears that UConn have virtually no chance of joining the ACC because Miami, VTech and BCU will oppose us at every turn. Beg harder.

 

[tzznandrew]

2 division format? Was that ever on the table?

It also appears that UConn have virtually no chance of joining the ACC because Miami, VTech and BCU will oppose us at every turn. Beg harder.

Well, depending on the accuracy of this, and depending on how we treat Syracuse and Pitt, the 75% threshold will be crossed with 11 out of 14 schools.

 

[MattMang23]

look what beg harder got tcu

 

[upstater]

- TCU was able to back out of the Big East without penalty because the Big East had failed to create a two-division football format or address the non-football schools (?);

5 in one division, 4 in the other. Everyone plays each other once. Errr, huh? Something is off.

- most significantly, when discussing DeFilippo's fears about UConn, that both Miami and Virginia Tech voted against us (the only discussions I had previously heard were that we never made it out of the three-person expansion committee, because DeFilippo was on that committee, and I can't see them packing a three-person committee with the three ex-Big East teams).

Virginia Tech voting against UConn shows why there should be absolutely no solidarity between schools, and that UConn in the past--in its treatment of non-basketball schools, etc.--has been too accommodating. VT, after all, was admitted for all sports into the BE with UConn backing.

- that Swofford was quoted as saying that "it makes sense to expand in ESPN's backyard" (I can't find this anywhere).

ESPN probably told him to take UConn, and he didn't deliver. I wonder how much this is going to cost him in the TV contract.

 

[SAMCRO]

Correct, but we don't have to be stripped.

The BCS agreement is in place through 2014 bowl games. The requirements can then be changed to whatever they agree to, and we could definitely be in the position where we don't meet the requirements.

It wouldn't be taken away, it would expire. And then we would have to meet the new requirements.

That could have happened even if SyraPitt remained. The likelihood of the BCS changing the game to make it even more exclusive than it already is will not get pushed thru. If there is any change it will be to allow 3 selections from a single league, which would minimize the at large opportunities of non AQ schools. The BE's AQ bid will continue as long as there is a BCS, provided we bring in competitive teams ready to compete at BCS level today (read: Houston, UCF, and most others mentioned not named Nova, UMass, Memphis, and Army).

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Well, depending on the accuracy of this, and depending on how we treat Syracuse and Pitt, the 75% threshold will be crossed with 11 out of 14 schools.

Theoretically true, and that dynamic works when there are two roughly equivalent choices where different stakeholders prefer different choices for different reasons. In our case, those are just 3 solid "against" votes, and that makes them very difficult to overcome. Group dynamics prevent the group from over-ruling strong "against" votes except in truly exceptional situations. Do we have the muscle with the ACC to get 11 members to take on BCU, VTech and Miami? No. They won't rock the boat for us.

The only way UConn ever ends up in the ACC is if the SEC raids it.

 

[UConn9604]

Virginia Tech voting against UConn shows why there should be absolutely no solidarity between schools, and that UConn in the past--in its treatment of non-basketball schools, etc.--has been too accommodating. VT, after all, was admitted for all sports into the BE with UConn backing.

I have to believe that any opposition by Virginia Tech is not necessarily anti-UConn. (BC? Definitely. Miami? Sure.)

Just as Chancellor Fox at NCSU voted against BC so that they could kick the tires on Notre Dame in 2003, maybe Virginia Tech had someone (or something) else in mind. Also, we have been outwardly loyal to the Big East, not only in 2003-04 but also since then. Maybe, as some have theorized, the ACC wanted a quick "yes" and they weren't sure whether we'd give them one. Who knows?

I just think that Virginia Tech is a speedbump, not a permanent roadblock. BC and Miami are going to force us to lock down a 10-2 vote, certainly.

 

[tzznandrew]

I have to believe that any opposition by Virginia Tech is not necessarily anti-UConn. (BC? Definitely. Miami? Sure.)

Just as Chancellor Fox at NCSU voted against BC so that they could kick the tires on Notre Dame in 2003, maybe Virginia Tech had someone (or something) else in mind. Also, we have been outwardly loyal to the Big East, not only in 2003-04 but also since then. Maybe, as some have theorized, the ACC wanted a quick "yes" and they weren't sure whether we'd give them one. Who knows?

I just think that Virginia Tech is a speedbump, not a permanent roadblock. BC and Miami are going to force us to lock down a 10-2 vote, certainly.

This may also be true. UConn was always in VT's court, and I don't think they were a school named in the lawsuit. I pretty much remember everyone being mad at BC and Miami, and being annoyed (but understanding) VT.

 

[upstater]

Theoretically true, and that dynamic works when there are two roughly equivalent choices where different stakeholders prefer different choices for different reasons. In our case, those are just 3 solid "against" votes, and that makes them very difficult to overcome. Group dynamics prevent the group from over-ruling strong "against" votes except in truly exceptional situations. Do we have the muscle with the ACC to get 11 members to take on BCU, VTech and Miami? No. They won't rock the boat for us.

The only way UConn ever ends up in the ACC is if the SEC raids it.

There's the other factor. How good was ESPN's wink, wink at Swofford when it intimated a new contract was in the offing? What if Swofford is offered a tiny bit less because the ACC didn't get the drift in the first place? It all depends on the next contract. If it falls short of what Miami and VT expect, because the no votes put ESPN in a difficult position, then there might be some more horse-trading.

 

[epperson]

I just think that Virginia Tech is a speedbump, not a permanent roadblock. BC and Miami are going to force us to lock down a 10-2 vote, certainly.

I would add FSU, GT and Clemson. Football is driving expansion possibilities, not Hoops.

For the Conference to remain intact, financially sound and relevant, Football success is the goal.

The only scenario beneficial for UConn is if the SEC poaches FSU, Clemson or VT. Given the built-in politics of the SEC, this is highly unlikely.

 

[BlueMAB]

That could have happened even if SyraPitt remained. The likelihood of the BCS changing the game to make it even more exclusive than it already is will not get pushed thru. If there is any change it will be to allow 3 selections from a single league, which would minimize the at large opportunities of non AQ schools. The BE's AQ bid will continue as long as there is a BCS, provided we bring in competitive teams ready to compete at BCS level today (read: Houston, UCF, and most others mentioned not named Nova, UMass, Memphis, and Army).

Yes, it could have happened with SaraPitt, but that doesn't change where we are now.

I'm not as confident as you are that they won't change the rules to make the Big East have to battle CUSA and/or the MWC for an at large spot.

You say the BE will keep the AQ bid provided we bring in competitive teams. Well how do you define competitive? The BCS has a formula for that, and if we don't meet the requirements, there's no reason they can't change the rules leaving us without AQ status. They may not do it, but there isn't anything stopping them from doing it.

 

[upstater]

I would add FSU, GT and Clemson. Football is driving expansion possibilities, not Hoops.

For the Conference to remain intact, financially sound and relevant, Football success is the goal.

The only scenario beneficial for UConn is if the SEC poaches FSU, Clemson or VT. Given the built-in politics of the SEC, this is highly unlikely.

There are a lot more moving parts. The end game is 16 to a conference because that will mean playoffs and tons of cash.
There are only so many good teams available for leagues such as the ACC and Pac12. The Big10 and SEC can be a little choosy. Since the ACC and Pac12 are not expanding currently, those leagues can wait to pick off prime schools such as Oklahoma or FSU or ND. It's the ACC and Pac12 that should be worried.

 

[epperson]

There are only so many good teams available for leagues such as the ACC and Pac12. The Big10 and SEC can be a little choosy. Since the ACC and Pac12 are not expanding currently, those leagues can wait to pick off prime schools such as Oklahoma or FSU or ND. It's the ACC and Pac12 that should be worried.

Correct. The Big 10 and SEC are dealing from a position of strength. However, the ACC recognized this early and preempted any moves by aggressively upping its exit fees and covering up its market liabilities by inviting 'Cuse and Pitt.

Secondly, there is something to be said about institutional fit. The ACC Schools are a good a mix of private institutions with stellar reputations, Football traditions and regional coherency.

 

[coachcap]

This may also be true. UConn was always in VT's court, and I don't think they were a school named in the lawsuit. I pretty much remember everyone being mad at BC and Miami, and being annoyed (but understanding) VT.

I'm actually surprised that it was Va. Tech that cast the 3rd antivote, as all indications were that Florida State wanted football name schools added to the fold.
Regarding the suggestion that the ACC wanted a quick answer & was afraid that UConn wouldn't give them one: I read a thred either on our football board or 'Cuse's two teeks ago. Remember the timing of the ACC announcement. It was the same date that Dave Gavitt passed away. In that thread it was asserted that Coach Calhoun was asked of his opinion on entry to the ACC. Supposedly he stated that The UConn shouldn't announce any such decision while his friend Dave Gavitt was lying on his deathbed.

 

[epperson]

I'm actually surprised that it was Va. Tech that cast the 3rd antivote, as all indications were that Florida State wanted football name schools added to the fold.

Do you have a reliable source for this?

I don't believe UConn was ever voted on by ACC members. The 444 Committee explored expansion possibilities--which schools were viewed favorably or unfavorably. It is in this Committee which GDF is a board member of.

 

[BBNBE]

There are a lot more moving parts. The end game is 16 to a conference because that will mean playoffs and tons of cash.
There are only so many good teams available for leagues such as the ACC and Pac12. The Big10 and SEC can be a little choosy. Since the ACC and Pac12 are not expanding currently, those leagues can wait to pick off prime schools such as Oklahoma or FSU or ND. It's the ACC and Pac12 that should be worried.

Do you think UF will help FSU get into SEC or South Carolina will help Clemson? After the SEC expanded, i m sure there were all kinds of side deals getting cut. In those dealings i m willing to bet than alliances were formed to keep certain universities out of the SEC at any cost.