SCar vs Duke

[cockhrnleghrn]

One thing I noticed was the relative youth of the South Carolina fans. I would say the average Duke fan in attendance today was 50-70 years old.... while the average SC fan seemed to be 20s,30s, and 40s. A few 50 and over... but not many. That makes a huge difference in fan noise.

Ill be rooting for South Carolina to win the SEC and garner a #1 seed in Greensboro. That would be both great for the hotels and restaurants here... as well as the regional atmosphere.

Columbia has a very young population with over 60,000 college students in the city and USC basketball fans tend to primarily live in Columbia. I think a big difference with Duke is that, as a private school, your alumni are more spread across the country, so your fans are either students or older local residents. We do still have a lot of older fans at home games.

 

[Huskies Rule]

She oughta have a PhD. by now!

If that stands for Poor Headcoaching Decisions, she does.

 

[Bayareahusky]

I do not begrudge USC for their celebration.... in fact..... I am glad it was a spectacle...... it is good for WCBB...... we need some freshness and new teams to grab the mantle and showcase our sport....... remember a dozen years ago Oklahoma was the new kid on the block .... a new team that was good and a frequent Final Four contender..... that didnt work out..... then UNC..... Maryland never seem to get to that level...... how many times can you promote Duke as a top shelf team? and Tennessee, well obviously they have their issues.....

so who do you look for when putting together a nice Monday night matchup on ESPN? Obviously UConn...... Notre Dame has proven it belongs there..... A & M and Texas, perhaps..... Baylor is good though hot and cold...... Louisville I think is here to stay as a contender..... and Stanford of course is always relevant......

South Carolina ready to break through and they seem to be an exciting brand of basketball.....

 

[hoophuskee]

Jatarie White has a hurt foot. Also, Tiffany Mitchell missed large parts of the game with a bloody nose. I was sitting behind our bench and she was bleeding profusely.

I thought CL was talking about White. Has the freshman WHite become that much of an integral part of your lineup that you-- not you per se-- but the prior USC fan cle802A made it a point that you were missign her.-- IS the freshman that important to your team?

Secondly, what do you mean by large parts when you speak of Mitchell? She did play 31 minutes.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I thought CL was talking about White. Has the freshman WHite become that much of an integral part of your lineup that you-- not you per se-- but the prior USC fan cle802A made it a point that you were missign her.-- IS the freshman that important to your team?

Secondly, what do you mean by large parts when you speak of Mitchell? She did play 31 minutes.

Jatarie White has played some meaningful minutes for us, though I wouldn't call her an essential player yet. I was sitting behind our bench and in my angst it seemed like the trainer was working with Tiffany for an eternity. I didn't realize she played 31 minutes. To me it felt like she missed most of the second half.

 

[Gate81]

I'm beginning to wonder if in tight situations USC has a weak first half then stronger second half. I attended their Sweet Sixteen loss vs. UNC at Stanford last spring and USC really stank it up in the first half and fell WAY behind. We were totally disappointed in Coates (#41), but then they totally dominated the second half and almost won. Then today's tale of two halves...though I'll agree I was way disappointed with the play of both teams, given their size inside.

And agreed, what was Coach P thinking? "I think i won't call any time outs so we can all watch them lose their third straight game?"

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

I'm beginning to wonder if in tight situations USC has a weak first half then stronger second half. I attended their Sweet Sixteen loss vs. UNC at Stanford last spring and USC really stank it up in the first half and fell WAY behind. We were totally disappointed in Coates (#41), but then they totally dominated the second half and almost won. Then today's tale of two halves...though I'll agree I was way disappointed with the play of both teams, given their size inside.

And agreed, what was Coach P thinking? "I think i won't call any time outs so we can all watch them lose their third straight game?"

She seems to be a great recruiter, but can't coach her way out of a paper bag, I suppose. I don't watch Duke WBB enough to have an honest opinion of her coaching ability.

We once had a coach like that at USC - Terry Kelly - back in the early 80's. He was a great recruiter, but never knew when to call a time out. I vividly remember my college days yelling at him to call a time out on many occasions.

 

[HuskyNan]

I really have an issue with your description of "their nice win". That game was abysmal and was an affront to division one women's basketball. The fact that one of the teams was supposedly the number one team in the country is enough to make you gag. They stunk and still needed Duke to make bonehead plays throughout to win it.

A bit of hyperbole, no? It wasn't the prettiest game ever played but while there were some awful turnovers, I thought the defenses did a good job of making the other team look ugly. I do have to admit, I thought the shot selection for USC could have been better and the missed chippies for both teams, geez, but the game was hardly "abysmal" IMO.

 

[Icebear]

The first half was absolutely abysmal to the point of being unwatchable. I found there to be lack of any sense of structure to what either team was even attempting to do offensively. Seemed to be much like the same issues plaguing Tennessee, individuals and little teamwork most points scored within breaks in the chaos. Much of it may have been too much adrenalin and little experience in controlling it big games. UCONN has started games that way but seems most often to bring it back under control.

The second half when I came back The game had slowed down a bit probably as energy wained. But there was still a major lack of intentionality and control of anything offensively and undisciplined and undirected reliance on athleticism. Again it reminded me of Tennessee the last 5 seasons more than ND or UCONN. That does not get one to the Final Four.

The ending was disastrous for Duke with mental meltdowns similar to a couple of the games UCONN lost to ND during the 7 losses. There was no excuse for allowing anyone a shot on the perimeter when two twos could only tie the game. Get beat going to the hoop but no one shoots a three. Then to head to the sidelines to be trapped and for there to be no time out called. Complete brain fart. Exciting sure good basketball, not in the least. JPM's time may begin to run out if this trend continues in big games.

 

[Striper69]

Weird game. Why on earth didn't Coach P call a timeout after Wilson scored? Basically gave up the game right there.

South Carolina celebrated like they won the championship even though it's a non-conference game they were expected to win. I don't think there was a handshake after USC went nuts after Wilson hit the shot. Exciting finish, I wonder if they'll stay #1.

They knew they were going to stay at #1. I'd say that was a reason to celebrate.

 

[Frodo]

South Carolina will only need to win by 1 or 101 it's irrelevant. UConn will for sure get some #1 votes, but UConn has a loss already and I don't think it's fair to knock down an undefeated team that will have just won on the road against a top 10 team.

Is there anyone who seriously thinks Duke is among the ten best teams in the country? They are big, but one of the slowest teams I've seen in a very long time, and simply have no guards. With or without Williams they are not a top team. This could be a 10 loss season for Duke.

 

[RadyLady]

Think we should be careful with proclamations of UConn destroying these teams. Yes, it was mostly ugly basketball but they're going to ugly up the games against the Huskies as well. Duke's sheer size can make any game an issue as it did this one. I thought SC had more offensive weapons and would pull away but it never happened. Duke has almost no clue what to do in the halfcourt offensively. But they can win games just with offensive rebounds and putbacks. Ironic to see them lose that way today.

UConn beat the tar out of Tennessee teams who had the same thought. Watching these two teams (SC and Duke) run fairly stagnant offense yesterday - I mean, they were standing around, not sure where to pass the ball, it is unfathomable to me that UConn could not beat the stuffing out of these two easily. I am not normally a fan of bravado and bluster even for UConn, but frankly watching SC's two "wins" against ranked teams by very small margins, one has to wonder how anyone, after watching UConn dismantle the likes of Notre Dame, could think that South Carolina can come close to beating UConn. Personally, I think that SC nation, if they are thinking that are setting themselves up for a whole lotta hurt.

JMO

 

[RadyLady]

I agree. Why begrudge the USC fans enjoyment of their #1 ranking and their nice win today? If we believe (and I do) that UCONN can beat them convincingly, then we get to settle that on the court in Feb. If it's the #1 ranking we want, then we shouldn't have lost to Stanford. That was UCONN's fault, not USC's.

Hardly a "nice" win.

IMO they were damn lucky to have squeaked by, and they can thank Duke for falling apart at the end (Sorry Triad and Cam - it was Duke's game to lose. I felt bad for that frosh who got stripped at the end. I bet that will never happen again. She's a good player)

 

[RadyLady]

UConn beat the tar out of Tennessee teams who had the same thought. Watching these two teams (SC and Duke) run fairly stagnant offense yesterday - I mean, they were standing around, not sure where to pass the ball, it is unfathomable to me that UConn could not beat the stuffing out of these two easily. I am not normally a fan of bravado and bluster even for UConn, but frankly watching SC's two "wins" against ranked teams by very small margins, one has to wonder how anyone, after watching UConn dismantle the likes of Notre Dame, could think that South Carolina can come close to beating UConn. Personally, I think that SC nation, if they are thinking that are setting themselves up for a whole lotta hurt.

JMO

Wrote this before I saw your post Icebear. That'll learn me to read the whole thread before posting...

 

[Beemer]

The first half of that game was an absolute dog's breakfast. I mean, really. Both teams looked & played incredibly tight, the shooters on both teams couldn't buy a bucket even when they were wide open. I believe at one point Duke went like 5 minutes without a basket and that wasn't due to SC's superior defensive scheme.

The second half was a little better but not much. Duke had SC down but took their feet off the Gamecocks' necks just long enough to blow it in the final seconds.

Not a great showcase for WCBB IMHO. I really did expect a more exciting game especially with all the talk about SC at the start of the season. Watching them live was a disappointment. My bad, I should know better than to believe the hype.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

One thing I noticed was the relative youth of the South Carolina fans. I would say the average Duke fan in attendance today was 50-70 years old.... while the average SC fan seemed to be 20s,30s, and 40s. A few 50 and over... but not many. That makes a huge difference in fan noise.

That is a massive change from 2003 until 2007, the height of the Cameron Crazies at women's games. For the big games (UConn, Tennessee, Maryland, UNC), it was the students out in full force. The 2003 game against UConn was as loud as the best men's games. The 2006 game against Tennessee was raucous. The 2007 game against Maryland (when MD was #1) was ridiculously loud, especially for an early Saturday game (tipoff was noon or 1:00 pm).

Only 6000 fans showed up yesterday, and estimates put that figure at 40-45 percent SC fans. There is no longer a student presence at Duke WBB games. There are no "Cameron Crazies" for women's games.

 

[Vowelguy]

That is a massive change from 2003 until 2007, the height of the Cameron Crazies at women's games. For the big games (UConn, Tennessee, Maryland, UNC), it was the students out in full force. The 2003 game against UConn was as loud as the best men's games. The 2006 game against Tennessee was raucous. The 2007 game against Maryland (when MD was #1) was ridiculously loud, especially for an early Saturday game (tipoff was noon or 1:00 pm).

Only 6000 fans showed up yesterday, and estimates put that figure at 40-45 percent SC fans. There is no longer a student presence at Duke WBB games. There are no "Cameron Crazies" for women's games.

I believe you though again I will note it is Exam Season. And tho SC was #1, it is neither a traditional rival nor a known WCBB power that would more naturally generate attention.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

I believe you though again I will note it is Exam Season. And tho SC was #1, it is neither a traditional rival nor a known WCBB power that would more naturally generate attention.

As a Duke student, I did not miss games because of exams. I worked around the game (on one occasion, we actually brought our books and studied at halftime of a Duke men's game).

But your points are valid ones.

 

[Zorro]

Cam; Do you think the crows would have been bigger had it been UConn?

 

[Sluconn Husky]

UConn beat the tar out of Tennessee teams who had the same thought. :: one has to wonder how anyone, after watching UConn dismantle the likes of Notre Dame, could think that South Carolina can come close to beating UConn.

I remember that Tennessee series differently. With a couple exceptions on each side, those games were dogfights. But then those Vols teams were infinitely better than this Duke team.
That still doesn't mean that the Blue Devils can't be a tough opponent with all that height. I feel the same way about Carolina too. It's a different matchup than Notre Dame, different playing style. And of course the Irish were missing a very athletic and tall piece the other day which changed things a bit. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the GameCocks could give UConn a game.

 

[Icebear]

Cam; Do you think the crows would have been bigger had it been UConn?

The crows don't get as big as ravens, so whether it was UCONN or not I doubt the crows could be any bigger.

 

[RadyLady]

I remember that Tennessee series differently. With a couple exceptions on each side, those games were dogfights. But then those Vols teams were infinitely better than this Duke team.
That still doesn't mean that the Blue Devils can't be a tough opponent with all that height. I feel the same way about Carolina too. It's a different matchup than Notre Dame, different playing style. And of course the Irish were missing a very athletic and tall piece the other day which changed things a bit. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that the GameCocks could give UConn a game.

well, I do. UConn lost in OT by 2 points, and the rest of their games were not even close, including a very strong ND team. SC, different story - their two games against ranked opponents were close and one win was a gift. So, I am happy to wait until post game 9th February 2015 to revisit this, because anything beyond when has already been said is simply bluster.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

well, I do. UConn lost in OT by 2 points, and the rest of their games were not even close, including a very strong ND team.

Again, different teams, different matchups. And Notre Dame wasn't at full strength.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

The crows don't get as big as ravens, so whether it was UCONN or not I doubt the crows could be any bigger.

...and roosters are bigger than ravens.

 

[FairView]

...and roosters are bigger than ravens.

Every response I come up regarding rooster size will get me in trouble.

 

[Icebear]

One of the things USC has been successful at thus far this season - moreso than say last year - was that they have moved the ball around much better: the spacings are improved, the passing is improved. Kadijah Sessions has improved greatly in this regard in terms of assists and distributing the ball to players making their cuts to the basket or to players in set positions for high % shot completions. Last season Sessions' basic role as PG was to get the ball across court without losing it, then get rid of the ball to Mitchell and let her make a drive move or decide to pass the ball off to someone else.

That's why Sessions had so few assists last season, and Mitchell led the team. Sessions' primary role was as a perimeter defender, which she is above solid at. But thus far this season she had improved greatly in the ball distribution/offense quarterbacking role to the extent that prior to the Duke game she led the nation in assists-to-turnover ratio, and USC as a team led as well (both Sessions and USC are currently 3rd nationally). USC has averaged 20+ assists per game coming into the Duke game, which was good for 4th nationally (they are now 6th), compared to under 15 assists per gm last season, good for 89th.

But Duke's height and post-zone defense first off cut off inlet passes into the Gamecock big girls, and then the guards didn't try to penetrate/drive into the zone as much as they have done against previous opponents' zones. Or maybe Duke did a better job of defending against that. So USC was devolved (especially moreso the 1st half) into becoming more of what they were last season: just pass the ball around the perimeter to players standing still mostly, waiting for the shot clock to wind down, until someone takes a hurried jump-shot. Our own defense kept Duke from capitalizing on the stunted offense of USC and jumping out to a sizable lead, so things never got totally desperate. But that explains the horrible first half showing.

We came out in the 2nd half with more resolve to run our offense, and even our perimeter/transition defense ramped up forcing a few early turnovers, and USC jumped to a 7-0 scoring run to start the half. It changed the tempo of the game and put Duke on the defensive a bit. USC had improved team motion in the 2nd half and took better shots, plus Williams getting 4 fouls helped as well. USC played more of the effective offense they expected to play for the whole game.

So IMO the 1st half was an unexpected speed-bump that was caused by Duke's great height: one that USC can use to learn from and try to see that it doesn't happen again. Other opponents will certainly continue to use the zone against USC - even UConn - but likely won't have the same size to offer that Duke did. USC just needs to continue to move and drive into the zone to develop better passing lanes to their bigs, to get them involved. We'll be alright.....

I haven't seen that yet. We'll see what the future brings.

 

[CamrnCrz1974]

Cam; Do you think the crows would have been bigger had it been UConn?

Yes, mostly because there would have been more UConn fans in attendance.

 

[RadyLady]

Again, different teams, different matchups. And Notre Dame wasn't at full strength.

You forgot part of my post. Must have been oversight or a flaw in the software. If I were you, I would speak with the mods.

Anyway I said "So, I am happy to wait until post game 9th February 2015 to revisit this, because anything beyond when has already been said is simply bluster."

So you may not be happy to wait until February, and if so, find someone else to discuss this please. Thanks.

RL

 

[Sluconn Husky]

You forgot part of my post. Must have been oversight or a flaw in the software. If I were you, I would speak with the mods.

I thought it was pretty apparent that I quoted the part I wanted to respond to. Don't know why you're so taken aback by that. It's not an unusual thing to do.

So you may not be happy to wait until February, and if so, find someone else to discuss this please. Thanks.

I'm not sure what we're waiting until February to do. You said it's unfathomable to you that UConn wouldn't beat "the stuffing" out of them "easily". So you've clearly formed an opinion on what's likely to happen. I said I don't think it's so certain that UConn will destroy them based on that slog of a game against Duke. It's possibly, and I'd love to see it, but I'm not as confident of it happening as you seem to be.

 

[RadyLady]

egads