Sanogo

[nelsonmuntz]

@superjohn @nelsonmuntz

I get it. I just enjoy slamming the mid 90s Knicks. Which is odd, because I'm no Knick hater. Not in the slightest. I rooted for them at the time. I was certainly rooting against the Bulls.

The 90s Knicks have just become the embodiment of frustrating NBA basketball for me. When I think of grind it out, painful to watch, ratings killing NBA basketball, I think mid 90s Knicks. Throw in Anthony and Dale Davis and I get a little sick thinking about it.

Any hint the NBA would move in that direction stylistically makes me a bit paranoid.

The 90s Knicks are a prototype of a smart coach not using any analytics at all to assemble a team. Ewing and Mason were fine, but no modern coach would put Rivers, Anthony and Starks into the same back court. Those are three guards that are defense first and can't shoot. Anthony couldn't shoot at all. Compare that to Tomjonavich's backcourt in Houston: Smith, Maxwell, and Cassell. Smith was not a great athlete and Cassell was not a major scorer yet when he was on Houston, but they could all shoot, spacing the floor for Hakeem. When you would see the two teams match up, they looked pretty even, but from an analytics perspective, Houston's backcourt was much more effective.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

The offensive rebound numbers aren't too drastically different for a 3 vs a shot up close, I think a 3 was around 30% and a layup was around 35%, so it'll depend on how good of a shooter you have. There's a lot of variables so hard to give a straight answer, but if you have a 35% 3 point shooter and assume 1 offensive rebound, the points per possession flip when you have a 54% shot from 2 point range

This is not right.

Nylon Calculus: More lessons from NBA rebound tracking

Analyzing a new cache of NBA rebound tracking data can help identify optimal strategies for shot selection and positioning rebounders.

fansided.com

Close shots are rebounded by the offense 35% of the time, while every shot outside of 12 feet until 27 feet was 20% or less chance of a rebound. I haven't seen good data on this, but I suspect those close misses often result in putbacks or defensive fouls, while the long rebounds are just another possession. Furthermore, a close shot that resulted in a short miss was rebounded 47% of the time by the offense. Again, events in basketball are not independent of prior or successive events.

 

[MexicoHusky]

The 90s Knicks are a prototype of a smart coach not using any analytics at all to assemble a team. Ewing and Mason were fine, but no modern coach would put Rivers, Anthony and Starks into the same back court. Those are three guards that are defense first and can't shoot. Anthony couldn't shoot at all. Compare that to Tomjonavich's backcourt in Houston: Smith, Maxwell, and Cassell. Smith was not a great athlete and Cassell was not a major scorer yet when he was on Houston, but they could all shoot, spacing the floor for Hakeem. When you would see the two teams match up, they looked pretty even, but from an analytics perspective, Houston's backcourt was much more effective.

That may true, but in retrospect I can't watch those old Knick games at all. It's infuriating and after watching modern NBA with all the spacing the old Knick games look archaic.

Edit: whenever I watch 90s Knick basketball it feels like I'm watching creamed corn wrestling at a strip club.... except instead of strippers it's Anthony Mason. And Dale Davis.

 

[Get a Job]

Are you sure about this? I'd love to read about from a primary source if you have a link. I'm no lawyer, but this doesn't pass my smell test.

@navery12 , never mind. Found it. Sorry for doubting you.

This is freaking outrageous and needs to be fixed immediately.

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[superjohn]

Jokic is a total unicorn though, you're not going to find any post players like him. Best passing big ever and is basically putting up the back to back best efficiency #'s of any player in NBA history.

The hope is Sanogo can just become adequate at recognizing a double and passing it to shooters soon. It would help the team and him so much.

Jokic in 24 minutes tonight- 24 points, 18 rebounds, 8 assists.

 

[navery12]

This is not right.

Nylon Calculus: More lessons from NBA rebound tracking

Analyzing a new cache of NBA rebound tracking data can help identify optimal strategies for shot selection and positioning rebounders.

fansided.com

Close shots are rebounded by the offense 35% of the time, while every shot outside of 12 feet until 27 feet was 20% or less chance of a rebound. I haven't seen good data on this, but I suspect those close misses often result in putbacks or defensive fouls, while the long rebounds are just another possession. Furthermore, a close shot that resulted in a short miss was rebounded 47% of the time by the offense. Again, events in basketball are not independent of prior or successive events.

You're right, it looks like the article I found was from 2004 so the data has probably changed. So only slightly different since it's 35 vs 25 instead of 35 vs 30

 

[EASTFLA]

My post wasn't a slight to him. He is and will be a great college player, and I love watching him work in the low post. Right now that is most of his game. Turnovers, rebounds, lack of mid-range jumper, no 3 point ability....all those are as of now. He certainly could develop them. If he adds a consistent mid range jumper, and at least be a threat from 3, before he leaves he will be a lottery pick. The problem is from where is game is now to that game is a long way away. He can get there though if he wants it bad enough.

 

[Tenspro2002]

The 90s Knicks are a prototype of a smart coach not using any analytics at all to assemble a team. Ewing and Mason were fine, but no modern coach would put Rivers, Anthony and Starks into the same back court. Those are three guards that are defense first and can't shoot. Anthony couldn't shoot at all. Compare that to Tomjonavich's backcourt in Houston: Smith, Maxwell, and Cassell. Smith was not a great athlete and Cassell was not a major scorer yet when he was on Houston, but they could all shoot, spacing the floor for Hakeem. When you would see the two teams match up, they looked pretty even, but from an analytics perspective, Houston's backcourt was much more effective.

Pretty wild to think that a successful NBA team used to start 6'8 (Oakley), 6'10 (Charles Smith), 7'0 (Ewing) across the front line, none of whom shot 3's, and then brought another 6'8 non-shooter (Mason) off the bench.

Only two outside threats on the floor at a time.

These days, if your center can't shoot 3's he's a liability.

 

[pepband99]

@superjohn @nelsonmuntz

I get it. I just enjoy slamming the mid 90s Knicks. Which is odd, because I'm no Knick hater. Not in the slightest. I rooted for them at the time. I was certainly rooting against the Bulls.

The 90s Knicks have just become the embodiment of frustrating NBA basketball for me. When I think of grind it out, painful to watch, ratings killing NBA basketball, I think mid 90s Knicks. Throw in Anthony and Dale Davis and I get a little sick thinking about it.

Any hint the NBA would move in that direction stylistically makes me a bit paranoid.

I would watch the 90s Knicks over the current NBA of crossover/dribbledrive/walk/chuck and duck/walk again 1:1 nonsense that exists now.

There are exceptions, but today's NBA is simply unwatchable, for me.

 

[McLovin]

@navery12 , never mind. Found it. Sorry for doubting you.

This is freaking outrageous and needs to be fixed immediately.

International Student-Athletes Are Missing out Big on NIL - College Gym News

All the recent articles published on College Gym News, including event coverage, recruiting news, features, data deep dives and more.

collegegymnews.com

With it being visa issues it would have to be changed with federal law, not the NCAA.

But I wonder if any sort of back door dealings is possible. Where a booster just happens to own a “company” in the players home country and pays them to a sponsor there (outside of the US).

 

[Get a Job]

With it being visa issues it would have to be changed with federal law, not the NCAA.

But I wonder if any sort of back door dealings is possible. Where a booster just happens to own a “company” in the players home country and pays them to a sponsor there (outside of the US).

I didn't assume the NCAA would have the ability or onus to fix it. I am just saying it needs to be fixed out of fairness. (Not snapping back at you; just clarifying.) The article says ICE can unilaterally change the situation without new legislation, for what it's worth.

Your scheme seems prohibitively expensive, unless registering a company can be done relatively cheaply and without needing an actual presence there. Anyway, the solution to injustice shouldn't be a crime in itself.

 

[Scoe]

Pretty wild to think that a successful NBA team used to start 6'8 (Oakley), 6'10 (Charles Smith), 7'0 (Ewing) across the front line, none of whom shot 3's, and then brought another 6'8 non-shooter (Mason) off the bench.

Only two outside threats on the floor at a time.

These days, if your center can't shoot 3's he's a liability.

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[TheChamps990411]

I will probably take a lot of heat for this but it will be a fair assessment. I love watching Sanogo work in the low post. He is as gifted of a player UConn has had in a long time. I think in that regard he is better than Okafor was. Remember, I didn't say better than Okafor, he is not, at least at this time. He is better in the post. Seems that most have already passed him along to the NBA as a first-round draft pick. Here is why I think that is a stretch:

He would have to be a 4 or a 5 in the NBA. His present skillset says he can only be a 5 and that is a difficult path. He is very under-sized as a 5. The average NBA center is 6'11". Sanogo is listed at 6'9". There is a good chance when he is measured for the draft he is more like 6'7.5/6'"8". His game right now is almost 100% back to the basket. He rarely scores outside of the 5-8 feet mark. If he has any kind of a 12-15 foot jumper it rarely shows itself. He will be a lot more contested by bigger players that can alter and impact his shot. He presently can't be a 4 in the NBA. He doesn't have the quickness to guard most of the quality 4's and he can't knock down and create his own shot beyond the lane. He has shown no ability, or desire to shoot or make 3's which would have to change.

Overall, he is a special talent, and some teams may give him a shot, but if you look at nbadraft.net he isn't listed in the 1st 2 rounds in the '22 or '23 draft! I love the kid to death, he is a great college player. His game may grow to be a better fit, but that doesn't look like this year. Hopefully, after next, that looks different. He is a genuine "tweener" but doesn't have the right fit for the NBA. Two other concerns. He leads the team in turnovers per game as a 5. That can't happen! He is also a black hole right now, the ball comes in and it never goes out. I think time and experience may solve both of those issues. For now, they exist.

I don't think he is or will be a 1st round draft candidate this season, I expect him back.

Hes not an elite rebounder nor defender. Is strictly a back to the basket player at about 6`8 and not super athletic. Hes not going anywhere. If he leaves he will be playing over seas or in the D league. Thats basically it in a nutshell.