Rothstein: "UConn’s struggles shouldn’t be a massive surprise" | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Rothstein: "UConn’s struggles shouldn’t be a massive surprise"

Dream Jobbed 2.0 said:
He should have been begging Jackson, Durham, Enoch, and MAL to stay. All would have been starters. The fact the sophomores decided to sit on the bench this season and in the cases of Durham and Enoch maybe the rest of their career instead of start for KO is telling.
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I disagree, if you don't want to be at UCONN and buy into the program don't let the door hit you on the way out.
All those players were highly ranked but had similar deficiencies. Enoch and Jackson were terrible defenders, Jackson tried. Jackson would be a nice sixth man (shooter) on a good team. Unfortunately his dad thinks he's Paul George. Enoch didn't show any improvement, terrible foot speed.
MAL would have been a very nice defender/ball handler but we need guards that can shoot.
Durham I think have the highest upside. He was coming off a major injury but he has talent. I think he should have been redshirted last year as he needs to work on his body and get stronger.
 
August_West said:
I can't honestly say he has earned the 3rd. I do believe he has earned the 2nd.

It seems like forever ago but it really hasnt been that long ago (a season and a 1/2) where we were an 8 (or was it 9 seed) in the NCAA's and won a game and met up with a 1 seed after looking pretty damn good winning AAC tourney (after getting through an epic 4 OT game) .... it was about as good a result as we couldve expected coming off a so so regular season and the future looked OK with the #8 recruiting class coming. Obviously last year and the beginning of this year have been brutal on our psyche as fans used to "UConn" basketball. But it hasnt been very long since we could compete. Its been one full season and the start of this one.
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Ehhh, that 2016 season is not something he should hang his hat on.

A team with Adams (Fr.), Gibbs (Sr.), Purvis (Jr.), Hamilton (So.), Miller (Sr.), Facey (Jr.), and Brimah (Jr.) should never have been in the position of earning a #9 seed and a date with #1 after winning the AACT. That team should have been Top 15 and a protected seed, but failures in player and team development led them to massively underachieve until showing a pulse for about 4 games in March.

You're right that we had the illusion of being on the up-swing in terms of recruiting in the spring of 2016, though those guys turned out to be mostly overrated (Jackson, Enoch), soft (Durham, Enoch), or damaged goods (Gilbert, Durham, Diarra).

And that's the blip of excitement amid 4 years of uninspired, mediocre play, recruiting and development failures, and player exodus.
 
Javjudah said:
Durham I think have the highest upside. He was coming off a major injury but he has talent. I think he should have been redshirted last year as he needs to work on his body and get stronger.
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Yeah I think Durham will be the one over the next year or two where we say "oh man" just a bit. I can see him thriving in Brey's offense. And I think this year off will do him great, he really shouldve been redshirted last year.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
That team should have been Top 15 and a protected seed, but failures in player and team development l
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You going to blame Ollie for Gibbs "development" that is pretty good. 5th year most coveted grad transfer. What was KO supposed to do with him? He was not the knockdown assassin we were promised over the course of that year (very streaky) and he struggled as a one guard. He was a finished product who didnt play as advertised for a good portion of that year.

Purvis and Brimah? Sure as juniors they needed to be better and I will hang that on Ollie. I wont hang Hamiltons abhorrent shooting slump that season on Ollie either.
 
August_West said:
You going to blame Ollie for Gibbs "development" that is pretty good. 5th year most coveted grad transfer. What was KO supposed to do with him? He was not the knockdown assassin we were promised over the course of that year (very streaky) and he struggled as a one guard. He was a finished product who didnt play as advertised for a good portion of that year.

Purvis and Brimah? Sure as juniors they needed to be better and I will hang that on Ollie. I wont hang Hamiltons abhorrent shooting slump that season on Ollie either.
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Why not? A bad shooting game, fine thats the player. But a massive shooting slump, this isn't baseball there are only so many games. You have to work to get your players better shots.
 
From the same link:

"Pitt is now 0-7 in ACC play and all of the Panthers’ losses have come by double figures. It would be an absolute shock if Kevin Stallings wins a conference game this year."

Well, at least Uconn is not Pitt. What a dumpster fire THAT is becoming. But good for you ACC, for taking Pitt, slow clap for you....
 
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polycom said:
Why not? A bad shooting game, fine thats the player. But a massive shooting slump, this isn't baseball there are only so many games. You have to work to get your players better shots.
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go to TCF's site and watch the middle section of that season again. Hamiltons issue wasnt shot quality. It was finishing some pretty great looks. We ran our team through him.
 
Gibbs missed some hero ball game-ending shots, but he was a good player. I think he’s generally remembered less fondly than he deserves.
 
Ollie terribly underperformed with that team.

1). He ran more dedicated post ups for Brimah then Shonn Miller. Seriously, every half he would run dedicated post ops for Brimah and misused one of the best post options in the country. Brimah should have been solely used as a rim runner and defender.

2). Insisted that Gibbs be the point guard. I know Jalen was a freshmen, but he should have plugged Jalen in at PG from day one. Yes, there would have been early season growing pains, but it would have paid off by Feb/March. Gibbs or Purvis off the bench was the obvious move.

These last 2 seasons have been terrible. But the signs of his deficiencies as a coach was the waste of talent he had on that team.
 
August_West said:
You going to blame Ollie for Gibbs "development" that is pretty good. 5th year most coveted grad transfer. What was KO supposed to do with him? He was not the knockdown assassin we were promised over the course of that year (very streaky) and he struggled as a one guard. He was a finished product who didnt play as advertised for a good portion of that year.

Purvis and Brimah? Sure as juniors they needed to be better and I will hang that on Ollie. I wont hang Hamiltons abhorrent shooting slump that season on Ollie either.
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I said player and team development, and should have been more specific on each.

Players: juniors Purvis, Facey, and Brimah, as well as sophomore Hamilton, should have been developed better. Obviously KO has nothing to do with development of grad transfers Gibbs and Miller.

Team: Gibbs actually was an excellent shooter, but was miscast by KO as a ball-dominant guard. He couldn't blow by anyone, couldn't create late in the shot clock (which itself shouldn't be necessary, but this was KO's offense after all). By December this board was calling for Gibbs to be moved off the ball, where he was a great spot-up threat. KO didn't start doing that until March. He also did a bad job of integrating Miller, who was the highest-IQ big we've had since Okafor and could do just about anything, including shoot from the perimeter. The offense should have run through him.

The whole being much less than the sum of the parts, and several of the parts falling short of expectations, fall on the head coach.
 
August_West said:
I can't honestly say he has earned the 3rd. I do believe he has earned the 2nd.

It seems like forever ago but it really hasnt been that long ago (a season and a 1/2) where we were an 8 (or was it 9 seed) in the NCAA's and won a game and met up with a 1 seed after looking pretty damn good winning AAC tourney (after getting through an epic 4 OT game) .... it was about as good a result as we couldve expected coming off a so so regular season and the future looked OK with the #8 recruiting class coming. Obviously last year and the beginning of this year have been brutal on our psyche as fans used to "UConn" basketball. But it hasnt been very long since we could compete. Its been one full season and the start of this one.
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Wow. This is true, I hadn’t thought of it that way. It feels like we’ve been terrible for ever. This last year and a half has been brutal
 
Javjudah said:
I disagree, if you don't want to be at UCONN and buy into the program don't let the door hit you on the way out.
All those players were highly ranked but had similar deficiencies. Enoch and Jackson were terrible defenders, Jackson tried. Jackson would be a nice sixth man (shooter) on a good team. Unfortunately his dad thinks he's Paul George. Enoch didn't show any improvement, terrible foot speed.
MAL would have been a very nice defender/ball handler but we need guards that can shoot.
Durham I think have the highest upside. He was coming off a major injury but he has talent. I think he should have been redshirted last year as he needs to work on his body and get stronger.
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We wouldn’t be better if Jackson was in Polley’s roll, Durham was in Whaley’s roll and Enoch was in DO’s roll?
 
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Tenspro2002 said:
Ehhh, that 2016 season is not something he should hang his hat on.

A team with Adams (Fr.), Gibbs (Sr.), Purvis (Jr.), Hamilton (So.), Miller (Sr.), Facey (Jr.), and Brimah (Jr.) should never have been in the position of earning a #9 seed and a date with #1 after winning the AACT. That team should have been Top 15 and a protected seed, but failures in player and team development led them to massively underachieve until showing a pulse for about 4 games in March.

You're right that we had the illusion of being on the up-swing in terms of recruiting in the spring of 2016, though those guys turned out to be mostly overrated (Jackson, Enoch), soft (Durham, Enoch), or damaged goods (Gilbert, Durham, Diarra).

And that's the blip of excitement amid 4 years of uninspired, mediocre play, recruiting and development failures, and player exodus.
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I hear you on the 9 seed team should have done more to be a better seed, Ollie proved in 2014 that he couldn't coach as he lead the national championship team to only a 7 seed!
 
Dream Jobbed 2.0 said:
We wouldn’t be better if Jackson was in Polley’s roll, Durham was in Whaley’s roll and Enoch was in DO’s roll?
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Durham in whaley’s roll, no. Durham gave me no reason to believe he’d contribute this yr. With Enoch and Vance you have a point
 
August_West said:
Only Enoch wouldve been a starter out of this group, this season. Durham maybe. MAL from some accounts (other than the Glenn Miller cover) did not like being behind Adams, Gilbert and Vital. And seeing his PC performance thus far he wouldve been rightfully behind those three. There was no way to know at that time Gilbert is hurt again. Jackson wouldve gotten some starts I believe but he also had Larrier and Vital to contend with. And if Jackson was starting at the 3 that puts Larrier at 4 and takes Durham off table for sure.

So yeah, Enoch was the only one with a starters expectation.
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That's not the point he is making aboth Enoch, Durham and Jackson. It is that the lack of continuity that exacerbates the injury situation.
 
Husky68 said:
I hear you on the 9 seed team should have done more to be a better seed, Ollie proved in 2014 that he couldn't coach as he lead the national championship team to only a 7 seed!
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The 2014 regular season, after the Florida win, was pretty mediocre if you're being objective. Brimah salvaged what would have been a fairly forgettable year.
 
Palatine said:
That's not the point he is making aboth Enoch, Durham and Jackson. It is that the lack of continuity that exacerbates the injury situation.
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Fully agree. But yes it is the point. He called all four of them Starters. All four of them would NOT have started this year.
 
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Husky68 said:
I hear you on the 9 seed team should have done more to be a better seed, Ollie proved in 2014 that he couldn't coach as he lead the national championship team to only a 7 seed!
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Its amazing isn't it? The Ollie haters move the bar around so much on here. I have seen time and again people saying " I want to be competitive and compete for tournament berths"

and then as soon as you bring up times where we have done that you get posts like this:

Tenspro2002 said:
The 2014 regular season, after the Florida win, was pretty mediocre if you're being objective. Brimah salvaged what would have been a fairly forgettable year.
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People moving the bar and trashing National Championship seasons to prove Kevin Ollie sucks.


If you ever need to look any further on why there is a big group of Men's fans that will NEVER be happy unless we are the UConn Women, look no further than that post.
 
Player recruitment, Player retention, Player growth- do we have any semblance of this at all? It's not like we've had some sort of fluky string of out of the blue injuries. Gilbert and Durham were hurt before they even arrived here. - As Head Coach he's responsible for all of these choices. - "If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries.”- Our restaurant needs a new cook imo.
 
Robertelamin said:
Especially when people bring up the Brimah play to take something away from the championship like it was a bad thing.
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Of course it was a bad thing. If we didn't win it that year it would be easy to get rid off no right now.

Imagine how they'll act if KO wins another title. They will lose their minds because they will know that at that point we will never be able to get rid of him.
 
August_West said:
And thats been my thing.

Absolutely hold Ollies feet to the fire for player retention. and the off the court stuff that effects it. I get it. And if last April happens again I will be the first one in line donating to the buyout. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

But with the pieces gone and the injury to Alterique (and even stretching back to last year with the injury to Alterique and Terry) I can't muster up the hatred for the floor game we have shown. I obviously like everyone else wish it was better, and Im sure KO couldve paddled through some of these turbulent waters a bit better on the game floor (for example the worst sub patterns in the country for my money) , but he is still a young coach in that manner... I just can't judge him fully on his actual full coaching ability, and I still think there may be something to work with. It's not like he is losing with a loaded squad. We are severely, severely undermanned. He gets a pass from me for last April ONCE.
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I get it - I’m just much further down the road.
 
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August_West said:
Its amazing isn't it? The Ollie haters move the bar around so much on here. I have seen time and again people saying " I want to be competitive and compete for tournament berths"

and then as soon as you bring up times where we have done that you get posts like this:



People moving the bar and trashing National Championship seasons to prove Kevin Ollie sucks.


If you ever need to look any further on why there is a big group of Men's fans that will NEVER be happy unless we are the UConn Women, look no further than that post.
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Talk about moving the goalposts.

Would I take, today, a regular season on par with 2013-14 or even 2015-16? Absolutely.

At the time, the 2014 team was good early, so-so in the middle, and generally good towards the end of the regular season (non-competitive games against Louisville aside). On the whole they performed about to expectations, maybe a little below, until the Villanova game.

Does the fact that we won the championship somehow make awful performances against Stanford, Houston, and SMU better? Why can't we objectively appraise these things?
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Does the fact that we won the championship somehow make awful performances against Stanford, Houston, and SMU better? Why can't we objectively appraise these things?
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Do you really need to devote any energy to the shortcomings of a regular season that ended with a trophy?

That would be like dating a Brazilian super model and complaining about her accent.
 
Tenspro2002 said:
Does the fact that we won the championship somehow make awful performances against Stanford, Houston, and SMU better?
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YES. It's astounding to me that you actually have to ask this question, and it's Exhibit A as to what an entitled fan base looks like. 2014 should be remembered for one thing: a national championship. There are adults who root for storied programs who have not seen a national championship in their lifetime. Have a modicum of perspective.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Do you really need to devote any energy to the shortcomings of a regular season that ended with a trophy?

That would be like dating a Brazilian super model and complaining about her accent.
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When you're evaluating the overall performance of the head coach, it absolutely matters, particularly when many of those same warts showed up in subsequent years and continue to the present.

I'm not taking any credit away from KO for that championship. He owns that as much as he owns everything that has come after.

But if we're evaluating the entirety of his tenure, that means November 2013-February 2014 is relevant.
 
Uconn77Duke74 said:
Player recruitment, Player retention, Player growth- do we have any semblance of this at all? It's not like we've had some sort of fluky string of out of the blue injuries. Gilbert and Durham were hurt before they even arrived here. - As Head Coach he's responsible for all of these choices. - "If they want you to cook the dinner, at least they ought to let you shop for some of the groceries.”- Our restaurant needs a new cook imo.
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Durham was a flier on a Top 20 level player who had injury history.

Gilbert hurt his should for real late in the year at the McD's AA game, long after he'd already committed.

Didn't recruit players with 'injury histories' as a pattern.
 
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