Rothstein: St. John’s/UConn is college basketball’s burgeoning rivalry. | Page 2 | The Boneyard

Rothstein: St. John’s/UConn is college basketball’s burgeoning rivalry.

TroyHall98 said:
The only rival for a blue blood is another blue blood.
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Sometimes not even then.

Serious question:

Does Penn State football have a true rival?

They've been a very formidable program for about six decades, have been competing for national titles for five and have a few national championship trophies in their display case.

Nobody would consider them a flash in the pan, a poser or any other derogatory label one would give a program that thinks it's something that it isn't. Until about forty years ago Pitt was absolutely a rival and was always their last game of the season. One strange thing about that however was that there was only about a ten year span (mid 1970's to mid 1980's) when both were very good at the same time. From WWI through the early 1960's Pitt was the far superior program but basically once Paterno took over, PSU was very good while Pitt had a terrible decade, followed by a decade where they were as good as any school, followed by a lot of mediocrity.

Penn State football is a storied program that is among the best yet really doesn't have a rival. The same can be said about our basketball program.
 
Iluvsuebird said:
I love this space. I love reading about UConn and I love reading from people that love UConn as much as I do. But some of you are flat out . St. John's was relevant last year. They are absolutely going to be a top 5 program NATIONALLY, again this coming year, and they are in the same conference as us. And they beat our a-- every time they played us last year. And the games the year before were ultra competitive. If that is not the very definition of a rivalry I do not know what is.
We complained forever about how the weak nature of the BE was costing us. Well, the BE is a little less weak now, isn't it???
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Wow, I try to stomp out the use of the r word - especially at school where I teach. Really don’t hear it anymore, as most are catching on that it makes you sound like an ignorant, mean-spirited human.

People and families with disabilities have enough challenges on their plate … they don’t need to hear/read that stuff.
 
We’re still an unfinished product due to needing about 2-3 more players. All the platforms, that are comparing the rosters, aren’t factoring that in
 
Inyatkin said:
UConn is also far from the population and money center of the state. But we benefit hugely by being the only game in town, which UMass is really not
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I hear you but not as far though. Hartford MSA is still a million people and most of them can get to Storrs in less than 45 minutes. And we also play half our games in Hartford. I know you're probably referencing Fairfield County. UMass is 2 hours from Boston. So even 1.5 hours from the outer western suburbs. Amherst might as well be Pittsfield for people around the Boston area.

The only game in town is definitely a good point.
 
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For all I know this has already been done on here, but this thread has made me think it’d be cool to take a poll of something like the following:

“Which program provided the strongest sense of a rivalry with UConn at its peak intensity, whenever that may have been, as you the individual fan perceive(d) it?”

For instance, I would select Syracuse because they won the Natty with Carmelo the year before UConn got their second one with the help of Ben Gordon, who was my on-court idol at the time. I would say from then up through the 6OT game (occurred while I was in high school), I perceived a fully-fledged rivalry with Cuse. It also didn’t hurt that one of my closest friends growing up was a big Syracuse fan.

I am definitely not old enough to establish a comprehensive list of reasonable options, so it’d have to come from a lifer fan that’s probably over 70 years old or perhaps someone younger who thoroughly knows our program’s history from the pre-Calhoun era.
 
This St Johns hype is unbearable. St Johns has not played in a single Sweet 16 game this century. Their hype train needs to pump the breaks here a bit before they come after the program with 6 time National Championships since their last S16 game.

I am going to enjoy watching next year's St Johns team implode from within. With all of those egos on that team, it is going to be so joyous to watch them blow up and waste the millions of NIL money on the first weekend March Madness.

Maybe they can hang a banner for their off-season Portal Championship.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Sometimes not even then.

Serious question:

Does Penn State football have a true rival?

They've been a very formidable program for about six decades, have been competing for national titles for five and have a few national championship trophies in their display case.

Nobody would consider them a flash in the pan, a poser or any other derogatory label one would give a program that thinks it's something that it isn't. Until about forty years ago Pitt was absolutely a rival and was always their last game of the season. One strange thing about that however was that there was only about a ten year span (mid 1970's to mid 1980's) when both were very good at the same time. From WWI through the early 1960's Pitt was the far superior program but basically once Paterno took over, PSU was very good while Pitt had a terrible decade, followed by a decade where they were as good as any school, followed by a lot of mediocrity.

Penn State football is a storied program that is among the best yet really doesn't have a rival. The same can be said about our basketball program.
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Great point.

Similarly, does Kansas have a true rival?
 
FfldCntyFan said:
The thing that is missing here (and with some who responded to a thread on the same topic) is that a rivalry isn't something that pops up occasionally when a couple team that play each other regularly both happen to be good; it's the result of years of accumulating competition.

There is no sustainability to what is currently going on at St John's and in all candor, it is very likely that once Pitino's replacement gets somewhat comfortable in his position, we will be at the next round of major conference musical chairs and our conference opponents will all play football.
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Don’t agree in the new landscape. It’s fine for a rivalry to blossom over a few years, and end. This one is really about the coaches.
 
Marat said:
Since we rejoined the NBE, I would claim Marquette has been our rival.

I can't quite say that the same for Creighton since we've not done too well vs them . St Johns hasn't been our rival until beating us recently - so similar situation.

Things change, so SJU is our rival for the time being.
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Marquette, cmon. Some Midwest new BE team. Not a chance.

PC would be a great rivalry if they had any chance at being good, given proximity and fan bases.

Gothams team with a deep pocketed villain makes for a great rival. Battle of MSG. Embrace it, it’s amazing theater while both coaches are there.
 
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metsfan2323 said:
The BE team that is challenging us for a league title is our rival. Definitely St Johns at the moment.
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And the stage could not be grander. To think someone thinks Milwaukees team is a rival. Omaha’s team? A wine and cheese Nova fanbase?

StJ has some gritty holes of a fanbase. There is so much to love about this one.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
There was a time when the rivalry was with Missouri, but that went the way of Nebraska-Oklahoma.
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Mizzou was the biggest rival. In my day they had Anthony Peeler and were good. Plus Missouri waged literal war on Lawrence and Quantrill sacked it. So the feelings are pretty deep. The team is even named for the Jayhawker soldiers who fought in the "bloody Kansas" border war with Missouri.

K-State is a sort of friendly rival. It's like PC to UConn. It's K-State's biggest game but not KU's. Now? Maybe Kentucky?
 
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Rothstein is just stirring the pot. True that right now, UConn and St. John's are looked at as the top of the Big East, and that is from last season's Big East regular and tourney where they won. Burgeoning being the key word as this does not extend back longer than a season in the same context.

We shall see how their roster works out - we went with core; they went with wholesale.
 
I know quite a bit about Bleeding Kansas and I'm old enough to remember Owens as head coach at Kansas and Stewart as head coach at Missouri.

At a time when (living in the northeast) you would normally have the opportunity to see one Big Eight game a year (always a weekend, after college football was done for the season). Kansas-Missouri was often the game we would get.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
Sometimes not even then.

Serious question:

Does Penn State football have a true rival?

They've been a very formidable program for about six decades, have been competing for national titles for five and have a few national championship trophies in their display case.

Nobody would consider them a flash in the pan, a poser or any other derogatory label one would give a program that thinks it's something that it isn't. Until about forty years ago Pitt was absolutely a rival and was always their last game of the season. One strange thing about that however was that there was only about a ten year span (mid 1970's to mid 1980's) when both were very good at the same time. From WWI through the early 1960's Pitt was the far superior program but basically once Paterno took over, PSU was very good while Pitt had a terrible decade, followed by a decade where they were as good as any school, followed by a lot of mediocrity.

Penn State football is a storied program that is among the best yet really doesn't have a rival. The same can be said about our basketball program.
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100% correct take on this
 
Iluvsuebird said:
I love this space. I love reading about UConn and I love reading from people that love UConn as much as I do. But some of you are flat out . St. John's was relevant last year. They are absolutely going to be a top 5 program NATIONALLY, again this coming year, and they are in the same conference as us. And they beat our a-- every time they played us last year. And the games the year before were ultra competitive. If that is not the very definition of a rivalry I do not know what is.
We complained forever about how the weak nature of the BE was costing us. Well, the BE is a little less weak now, isn't it???
Expand ...
Histrionics aside just no. A two year span of getting beaten and them having a highly ranked team does not a rivalry make. Longevity is a huge component, as is a bunch of other not easily definable aspects, but losing a few times to a better team with a coach who’s not around for a long time is not it.

Great for us and the Big East that St John’s is good. No, that does not make this a rivalry.
 
All publicity is good publicity. So this is a great piece of pub. Except for that it is meaningless. UConn/SJU has never been a rivalry. It would take a few years to build to that level and by that time Pitino will be gone.
 
Inyatkin said:
There really would be no better rival than UMass. Neighboring states, short drive, a lot in common, plenty of cause for bad blood. But they'd have to take SPORTS seriously for that to happen.
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Fixed it for you
 
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UconnU said:
Who was that coach they had maybe 5-10 years ago who came from one of those fake high school programs, he ended up landing a top-50 recruit bc he was dating the kids mother? lol.
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Tre Mitchell? I think the kid's coach became engaged with the mom and then the coach got hired as an assistant at UMass. Mitchell was a pretty good player, too, that I think we recruited pretty hard for a bit.
 
Red Sox-Yankees is a rivalry. Harvard-Yale rivalry. BC-BU hockey rivalry. Michigan-Ohio State rivalry. UConn-St John’s is flavor of the month. It isn’t historic. We mostly don’t care about them unless we are playing against them. Some UConn fans event root for them in non-conference games because they are in the NBE. No Red Sox fan rooted for the Yankees in the World Series despite both being in the ALEast. I can tell you that BC hockey fans became Western Michigan fans during the NCAA hockey tournament. And that was despite the fact that a BU victory would have been a feather in Hockey East’s cap. If the Yanks never win another game it will be too many for most Sox fans. If BU goes 0 for the next 10 years BC won’t be happy. No Michigan Man want Ohio State to win anything. Ever. Superjohn and his ilk want St John’s to lose 2 games per year. That’s an opponent, not a rival
 
PAHusky said:
Histrionics aside just no. A two year span of getting beaten and them having a highly ranked team does not a rivalry make. Longevity is a huge component, as is a bunch of other not easily definable aspects, but losing a few times to a better team with a coach who’s not around for a long time is not it.

Great for us and the Big East that St John’s is good. No, that does not make this a rivalry.
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And your last sentence sums up why this is not a rivalry. North Carolina would never say “Good for the ACC that Duke is good.” And Duke is always good. St John’s has been to the NCAA tournament as many times since 1999 as we have won titles. I think the actually won a game over that span.
 
MSG is going to be on fire when we play them there …especially if we are both ranked high … this is great for the big east
 
freescooter said:
And your last sentence sums up why this is not a rivalry. North Carolina would never say “Good for the ACC that Duke is good.” And Duke is always good. St John’s has been to the NCAA tournament as many times since 1999 as we have won titles. I think the actually won a game over that span.
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Yes. And we want to beat them this season if only to shut up their fans who mouth off and come out of their ratholes every generation or so when they field a competitive team.
 
PAHusky said:
Histrionics aside just no. A two year span of getting beaten and them having a highly ranked team does not a rivalry make. Longevity is a huge component, as is a bunch of other not easily definable aspects, but losing a few times to a better team with a coach who’s not around for a long time is not it.

Great for us and the Big East that St John’s is good. No, that does not make this a rivalry.
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I am not comparing the "relationship" that exists between us and St. Johns with any other relationship. But you are telling me that a top 5 team for this coming year, a team that we will face at least twice, is not a rival? This may be grammar thing. Maybe the word "rival" means something different to both of us.
 
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