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Rori Harmon

bballnut90

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Ugh feel awful for Harmon and Texas. I thought they had a real shot to go deep this year. Still might but this is a massive blow. Any chance she can redshirt?
 

bballnut90

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Side note--the 2021 class has been brutalized by injuries. Look at all of the top kids who've had serious injuries:

Hoopgurlz Ranking:
1. Azzi Fudd-ACL and other injuries, has never played a full season
2. Raven Johnson-ACL freshman year
5. Caroline Ducharme-head injuries, has never played a full season
6. Aaliyah Moore-ACL, has never played a full season
8. Olivia Miles-likely ACL (not sure if ever confirmed)
9. Teonni Key-ACL as a freshman, in a boot this year (only played 2 games)
10. Rori Harmon-ACL
13. Maryam Dauda-ACL


Saniya Rivers, Sania Feagin and Jersey Wolfenbarger are the only ones in the top 10 who haven't had an ACL or serious head injury.
 
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Side note--the 2021 class has been brutalized by injuries. Look at all of the top kids who've had serious injuries:

Hoopgurlz Ranking:
1. Azzi Fudd-ACL and other injuries, has never played a full season
2. Raven Johnson-ACL freshman year
5. Caroline Ducharme-head injuries, has never played a full season
6. Aaliyah Moore-ACL, has never played a full season
8. Olivia Miles-likely ACL (not sure if ever confirmed)
9. Teonni Key-ACL as a freshman, in a boot this year (only played 2 games)
10. Rori Harmon-ACL
13. Maryam Dauda-ACL


Saniya Rivers, Sania Feagin and Jersey Wolfenbarger are the only ones in the top 10 who haven't had an ACL or serious head injury.
It’s insane to me how so many players in that class, pretty much all of which were on their way to great careers, have been sidelined with injuries.
 

Blakeon18

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BTW: Undefeated Baylor plays at undefeated Texas on Saturday....2:00 our time....on Fox.
When a star player goes down my impression is that her team might well respond
with extra effort....extra intensity etc. That 'extra' stuff starts to ebb as they play more games.

I put a modest/figurative wager on the Longhorns today....the crowd should be wild for them.
 

Plebe

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BTW: Undefeated Baylor plays at undefeated Texas on Saturday....2:00 our time....on Fox.
When a star player goes down my impression is that her team might well respond
with extra effort....extra intensity etc. That 'extra' stuff starts to ebb as they play more games.

I put a modest/figurative wager on the Longhorns today....the crowd should be wild for them.

That sometimes happens. But I've also seen teams look stunned and disoriented by the sudden loss of their teammate, and their play can reflect that. Remember UConn's loss to Georgia Tech after losing Paige two seasons ago? It was just sad.

I'm not a betting man; I'll be rooting for Texas but it could go any which way.
 
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BTW: Undefeated Baylor plays at undefeated Texas on Saturday....2:00 our time....on Fox.
When a star player goes down my impression is that her team might well respond
with extra effort....extra intensity etc. That 'extra' stuff starts to ebb as they play more games.

I put a modest/figurative wager on the Longhorns today....the crowd should be wild for them.

They will also be without Taylor jones
 

Plebe

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They will also be without Taylor jones
Missing their top 2 scorers one of whom is their all-American floor leader and playmaker.

Not the recipe for breaking the streak of 13 consecutive home losses to Baylor.
 
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Side note--the 2021 class has been brutalized by injuries. Look at all of the top kids who've had serious injuries:

Hoopgurlz Ranking:
1. Azzi Fudd-ACL and other injuries, has never played a full season
2. Raven Johnson-ACL freshman year
5. Caroline Ducharme-head injuries, has never played a full season
6. Aaliyah Moore-ACL, has never played a full season
8. Olivia Miles-likely ACL (not sure if ever confirmed)
9. Teonni Key-ACL as a freshman, in a boot this year (only played 2 games)
10. Rori Harmon-ACL
13. Maryam Dauda-ACL


Saniya Rivers, Sania Feagin and Jersey Wolfenbarger are the only ones in the top 10 who haven't had an ACL or serious head injury.
Gotta wonder the impact of covid hitting in the middle of their high school careers might have had on this because this is crazy.
 
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Side note--the 2021 class has been brutalized by injuries. Look at all of the top kids who've had serious injuries:

Hoopgurlz Ranking:
1. Azzi Fudd-ACL and other injuries, has never played a full season
2. Raven Johnson-ACL freshman year
5. Caroline Ducharme-head injuries, has never played a full season
6. Aaliyah Moore-ACL, has never played a full season
8. Olivia Miles-likely ACL (not sure if ever confirmed)
9. Teonni Key-ACL as a freshman, in a boot this year (only played 2 games)
10. Rori Harmon-ACL
13. Maryam Dauda-ACL


Saniya Rivers, Sania Feagin and Jersey Wolfenbarger are the only ones in the top 10 who haven't had an ACL or serious head injury.
I just read an article by &ndscape on the ESPN app about Ivey’s ascend/upward trajectory as head coach of the program. They basically confirmed Miles ACL injury.
 
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The difference is already apparent after the 85-79 loss to Baylor, who led for the entire game. Madison Booker had a great game more or less playing PG with 25 pts 8 assists 7 rebounds 5 TOs. I say "more or less" because it seemed more like a tandem PG with Shaylee kinda shoring her up and providing some needed speed. Shay Holly played well too. Booker has a good drive to the rim, which is more about muscle than speed.

And Texas was notably slow. By the 4th quarter Booker was exhausted, and the whole team looked tired, and this contributed to 23 turnovers. Jones didn't play and Moore was used sparingly. One of the TV commentators suggested that the string of cupcake blowouts in their OOC schedule hadn't prepared them to play this hard for en entire game.

Texas is definitely a hobbled team right now. Things will look better if Jones and Moore can return. But the loss of Rori is huge. Games against WVa, TCU, K St, ISU and Baylor (again) suggest they could take a bunch of losses, maybe as many as 5 or 6 in conference. I don't think they can be the favorite to win the Big12 any longer.
 

Plebe

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And Texas was notably slow. By the 4th quarter Booker was exhausted, and the whole team looked tired, and this contributed to 23 turnovers. Jones didn't play and Moore was used sparingly. One of the TV commentators suggested that the string of cupcake blowouts in their OOC schedule hadn't prepared them to play this hard for en entire game.
Was the commentator including the UConn game in that “string of cupcake blowouts”? Was the road game at Arizona also a “cupcake blowout”?

The biggest factor in the fatigue was the loss of Harmon (and to a lesser extent Jones) from the rotation. Booker was understandably exhausted by the end of the game with all the responsibility she was having to carry. Baylor deserves some credit for wearing out Texas with their defensive pressure.

Texas deserves credit in my book for their competitiveness. After going down by double digits early, they played Baylor on more than even terms the rest of the way. As I told my friend, Texas looked much better in this game than UConn did in the infamous Georgia Tech game under similar circumstances two years ago.
 
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Was the commentator including the UConn game in that “string of cupcake blowouts”? Was the road game at Arizona also a “cupcake blowout”?

The biggest factor in the fatigue was the loss of Harmon (and to a lesser extent Jones) from the rotation. Booker was understandably exhausted by the end of the game with all the responsibility she was having to carry. Baylor deserves some credit for wearing out Texas with their defensive pressure.

Texas deserves credit in my book for their competitiveness. After going down by double digits early, they played Baylor on more than even terms the rest of the way. As I told my friend, Texas looked much better in this game than UConn did in the infamous Georgia Tech game under similar circumstances two years ago.

No but he was sayin the Baylor game was a “bigger” game than UConn. He conveniently forgot to include the injuries that UConn had
 
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Was the commentator including the UConn game in that “string of cupcake blowouts”? Was the road game at Arizona also a “cupcake blowout”?

The biggest factor in the fatigue was the loss of Harmon (and to a lesser extent Jones) from the rotation. Booker was understandably exhausted by the end of the game with all the responsibility she was having to carry. Baylor deserves some credit for wearing out Texas with their defensive pressure.

Texas deserves credit in my book for their competitiveness. After going down by double digits early, they played Baylor on more than even terms the rest of the way. As I told my friend, Texas looked much better in this game than UConn did in the infamous Georgia Tech game under similar circumstances two years ago.
Huh? Why should I care about that? The commentator has a point. Is it the only factor? Who cares? The fact is they had 2 competitive games, one against a team hobbled by injuries, the other against Arizona. Their average margin of victory, not counting those 2 teams is ~43 pts/g. Check the minutes played in the blowouts and draw your own conclusion. Other than those two games, and an early season win over Liberty, Vic has been able to use his bench freely and his starters have not often played more than 20 mins/g. No wonder they looked tired when it was suddenly necessary for them to play 35+ minutes and under intense stress.

Texas totally deserves credit for their competitiveness in this game. That's also why it may be a bad sign for the rest of the season, at least until Jones and Moore can return to the lineup. They fought like hell, and it took everything they had to keep it this close. And it was a really good game to watch. Very competitive. I would never say that Texas isn't a good team -- I'm a Texan after all. But before the loss of Harmon, they seemed like they were leading contenders for an NC. Well, the injury fairy has not been kind to them, and they no longer seem like they have a clear shot at the title. As I said, they might not even win the Big12.

As for your suggestion that they looked better than UConn did two years ago against GA Tech, I'd have to agree. They looked much better. But I'd say the circumstances were not very similar at all. UConn lost Paige at the end of the ND game and played Ga Tech 3 days later with no chance to hold a practice in between. Also, they had to play with no true point guard as Nika and Azzi were also injured. For stretches of the game Geno had Liv Dorka And Aaliyah on the floor together with Evina and Christyn. The UCLA game 2 days later, again with no practice in between, was a bit better since Caroline finally found her mojo and was able to help with the guard duties, and this marked the beginning of a very good stretch of games for her. By contrast, Rori was injured in a shoot around before the Jackson St game and Texas got to play a cupcake and was able to hold another practice before the Baylor game 3 days later, and Vic had two effective PGs to call on in Shaylee and Madison.

Now, I don't know if this is what you meant, but I suspect the competitiveness of Texas in this loss also indicates how much greater the loss of Paige was than the loss of Rori. Don't get me wrong, I think Rori is great and means a ton to Texas as a team. But she's no Paige, as your comparison indeed suggests. Or perhaps this is what you meant to imply.
 

KnightBridgeAZ

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I didn't see this game (its taped but I don't think we'll get to it), but I was a few feet away from Harmon a couple times during the Arizona game. Totally impressive player - and between her and Jones were the juice that Texas had that did in Arizona.

That said, what was actually so impressive was their discipline to their game plan - they might not be on a fast track to the Final Four with the injury, but I fully expect they will be having a very good season.
 

Plebe

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Huh? Why should I care about that? The commentator has a point. Is it the only factor? Who cares? The fact is they had 2 competitive games, one against a team hobbled by injuries, the other against Arizona. Their average margin of victory, not counting those 2 teams is ~43 pts/g. Check the minutes played in the blowouts and draw your own conclusion. Other than those two games, and an early season win over Liberty, Vic has been able to use his bench freely and his starters have not often played more than 20 mins/g. No wonder they looked tired when it was suddenly necessary for them to play 35+ minutes and under intense stress.
This hypothesis doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Forget the blowouts for a moment. Harmon played 39 minutes against UConn and 39 minutes against Arizona. I'm trying to imagine how many similar 39-minute games by Harmon would have prepared the team better for a game in which she would play zero minutes. They could have played UConn 12 times and it would not have prepared them better for her absence.

On that note, Booker played 40 minutes against UConn and 35 minutes against Arizona. So again, what wore her out was not the minutes played, but having to shoulder the ball-handling and playmaking role against intense defensive pressure, a task that normally Harmon would have expertly handled. So again, the main factor in the fatigue was the loss of Harmon, not the strength of schedule.
 

BRS24

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Ugh feel awful for Harmon and Texas. I thought they had a real shot to go deep this year. Still might but this is a massive blow. Any chance she can redshirt?
Players cannot play in more than 30% of games to be eligible for medical redshirt. Per Texas schedule, they have 31 regular season games. Harmon played in the first 12 games, 39%. If they are in top 4 of Big12, that's a potential of 3 more games, which lowers the rate to 35%. If they were to make it to the NCAAT finals, that's 40 games, which is exactly 30%, however I'm not sure that conference tourney and NCAAT games count towards the calculation.
 
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This hypothesis doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Forget the blowouts for a moment. Harmon played 39 minutes against UConn and 39 minutes against Arizona. I'm trying to imagine how many similar 39-minute games by Harmon would have prepared the team better for a game in which she would play zero minutes. They could have played UConn 12 times and it would not have prepared them better for her absence.

On that note, Booker played 40 minutes against UConn and 35 minutes against Arizona. So again, what wore her out was not the minutes played, but having to shoulder the ball-handling and playmaking role against intense defensive pressure, a task that normally Harmon would have expertly handled. So again, the main factor in the fatigue was the loss of Harmon, not the strength of schedule.
Are you under the impression that you're refuting me? How bizarre. I have (and had) no interest in determining what was the 'main factor.' That's your preoccupation, not mine. I merely observed that the injury to Harmon is significant and speculated about the consequences for their season, and I also observed that they were very tired in the Baylor game. I think you agree with me on these points. Your dispute with the TV commentator in that game is of little interest to me, but her suggestion is worth thinking about. You apparently disagree with her. Fair enough.

If I cared to argue in her defense, I might suggest that the minutes played by the rest of the team in 11 of their 13 games was a salient factor. Also that so few of their games were competitive. Suddenly to have to play a much shorter lineup in an intensely competitive game without their floor leader is bound to be mentally tiring and physically challenging. But this line of thought is not really of interest to me. I'll leave it to you to dispute it, or not.
 
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Gotta wonder the impact of covid hitting in the middle of their high school careers might have had on this because this is crazy.

Not clear on your logic here. Can you expand/clarify what you mean? When compared to Canada, the ability to compete and train wasn't drastically curtailed in the US.

In other threads about injuries, usually the talk is about playing or training too much. If anything wouldn't some down time be seen as a good thing as it would have resulted in less wear and tear on the body?
 

BRS24

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Andrea Hudy said the following in this article (gifted)

"While Auriemma has voiced his belief that the spike in injuries is coming from the decrease in multi-sport high school athletes, Hudy believes the spike could also be traced back to the first summer of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Hudy spent the 2020-21 and 2019-2020 seasons leading the University of Texas strength and conditioning programs for its men’s and women’s basketball teams. In March 2020, universities all across the country shut down and students returned home to quarantine during the first months of the pandemic.

When college teams were allowed to bring student-athletes back on campus, Hudy asked the Texas men’s basketball players to look at their step trackers on their phones to compare what they did pre-pandemic and during the lockdown.

“I said, ‘OK, look at February 15, how many steps did you have?’ And they looked at their phones and their 15,000 steps. And that was walking to and from classes on campus and we would practice and lift,” Hudy said. “Then shoot forward to July, whenever we got back on campus ... and they had like 2,000. So, you're talking about miles were missed just being a normal human being. Posture was missed because people were lying down on their couches.”

Getting back into proper strength and conditioning form took time for student-athletes all across the country — both at the high school and college levels."
 
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Not clear on your logic here. Can you expand/clarify what you mean? When compared to Canada, the ability to compete and train wasn't drastically curtailed in the US.

In other threads about injuries, usually the talk is about playing or training too much. If anything wouldn't some down time be seen as a good thing as it would have resulted in less wear and tear on the body?
The timing just seems oddly coincidental.

A lot of places were shut down for months in 2020 and as a result of a lot of training that would normally be done and led by a professional was done at home sans professional. For example, Azzi Fudd tore her ACL in 2019 and had to do a lot of recovery and rehab at home supervised by her mom instead of a professional and without all the equipment and technology she has access to now. You don't know many injuries were rehabed or prehabbed in ways that made future injuries more likely.

Young players training at home, potentially creating bad habits or training in ways that make them more susceptible, could also have had in impact.

Plus any medical issue that wasn't life or death was pushed off or postponed for months to a year due to covid. Injuries that normally might have dealt with quickly could have turned into nagging injuries.

These are a just a few initial thoughts that could have caused it but maybe its just a coincidence. However, its easy to me to see how a global heath pandemic that shut down most of the country for almost a year, specifically the health care sector could have a long term impact on injuries.
 
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Andrea Hudy said the following in this article (gifted)

"While Auriemma has voiced his belief that the spike in injuries is coming from the decrease in multi-sport high school athletes, Hudy believes the spike could also be traced back to the first summer of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Hudy spent the 2020-21 and 2019-2020 seasons leading the University of Texas strength and conditioning programs for its men’s and women’s basketball teams. In March 2020, universities all across the country shut down and students returned home to quarantine during the first months of the pandemic.

When college teams were allowed to bring student-athletes back on campus, Hudy asked the Texas men’s basketball players to look at their step trackers on their phones to compare what they did pre-pandemic and during the lockdown.

“I said, ‘OK, look at February 15, how many steps did you have?’ And they looked at their phones and their 15,000 steps. And that was walking to and from classes on campus and we would practice and lift,” Hudy said. “Then shoot forward to July, whenever we got back on campus ... and they had like 2,000. So, you're talking about miles were missed just being a normal human being. Posture was missed because people were lying down on their couches.”

Getting back into proper strength and conditioning form took time for student-athletes all across the country — both at the high school and college levels."
This is a great thought too. Seems to be so many potential negative impacts the pandemic had to young athletes that the extraordinary rate of injury of the 2021 class seems like more than a coincidence.
 
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Interesting points and thanks for the article @BRS24 . From my vantage point, it didn't seem as drastic a drop off compared to Canada where access to training and gyms was virtually impossible between 2020 and 2021.
 

TheFarmFan

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Great thoughts. I know this was my experience - I did tons of running and cycling and home workouts during the "peak" part of the pandemic. But my first time back on a basketball court in spring 2021 and it took me all of 10 minutes to tear my meniscus and cartilage in my knee due to the complete absence of dynamic lateral movement for over a year. Classic non-contact injury from poor conditioning.

I'm not sure how much this can explain injuries in late 2023, but I know many of us are carrying the residual mental and physical effects of so much time away from our routines and normal ways of being.
 

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