Reminder: Team USA game - 5:30 p.m. EDT on ESPN2 | Page 7 | The Boneyard

Reminder: Team USA game - 5:30 p.m. EDT on ESPN2

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Card fan, I want to say, also, that I have no problem with anything you have said or you valued participation. I just disagree with some of your conclusions about Nneka's current place on the team.

I think the possibility of a frontline of Britney, Nneka, and Elena should terrify those on the international scene.
 
OneTrickPony said:
Anyone that watched the two games last night knows the truth about men's and women's basketball. The men are bigger and excellent athletes, but the women know how to play the game. Maddening watching the men!
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The men weren't hitting outside shots, and other than LeBron, they don't really have a guy who can go inside and score whenever (though Durant is improving in that area). Carmelo shouldn't be getting the minutes he is; I'd like to see Kevin Love play more.

Other than that, the main problem some of these NBA teams have is that sometimes they're trying to play an all-star game, whereas their competition is just trying to play basketball. The NBA guys know how to play, but they get into this mode of trying to blow everyone out of the building with every possession. The President being there might have also been distracting in a number of ways. It was too bad Durant culdn't put on more of a show in his home town. LeBron was special, though.
 
alexrgct said:
The men weren't hitting outside shots, and other than LeBron, they don't really have a guy who can go inside and score whenever (though Durant is improving in that area). Carmelo shouldn't be getting the minutes he is; I'd like to see Kevin Love play more.

Other than that, the main problem some of these NBA teams have is that sometimes they're trying to play an all-star game, whereas their competition is just trying to play basketball. The NBA guys know how to play, but they get into this mode of trying to blow everyone out of the building with every possession. The President being there might have also been distracting in a number of ways. It was too bad Durant culdn't put on more of a show in his home town. LeBron was special, though.
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Precisely...an all star game where everyone gets the spotlight for a few minutes, but no one runs a play...!
 
I can understand Cardfan's loyalty to Nneka and I respect his desire to express his view here, that she should have been one of the twelve players selected. Surely a similar case could have been made for Kara Lawson (or perhaps some others) but no one stepped up with Cardfan's zeal and persistence.

Speaking of persistence, sometimes (as on this board about this topic) it is not only futile, but ultimately counterproductive. Think about what W.C. Fields had to say about it:

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. If that doesn't work, quit! There's no point in being a damned fool about it."​
 
I still think EDD should have been at least in the pool of players looked at for the team. I mean how many 6'5 players have guard like skills? I don't think any team that USA would face could guard her. Yes Nneka would have been a good choice. But if it came down to her or Elena. I would choose Elena, without blinking twice.

But oh well, I believe EDD will be on the 2016 team.

Go USA!
 
Cardfan, I think your position is very defensible, and I would say that there is no question that Nneka's performance in the WNBA this year has exceeded Swin's and probably at least equalled Asjha's. But you have to remember that 11 out of 12 members of the Olympic team were chosen in April, before the WNBA season had even started, so you really can't use her WNBA performance as evidence for your case. You've said that she should have been chosen after Griner declined to participate, but at that point you are talking about the 12th member of the team, who will be mostly a practice player in any case. For that purpose, someone who knows the coach's system and his expectations in practice is probably a better fit than someone who would be new to both.

If the WNBA season had been played when the roster was originally chosen, I think it is quite likely that Nneka would have been chosen.

The other factor is that some decisions in Olympic play are made to recognize a career achievement more than current skill. In 2004, Bird and Taurasi made the roster but played behind Dawn Staley, which was questionable based on their relative skills in 2004. But it was right to recognize Staley's whole career by giving her a premier role on her last Olympic team. I think that choosing someone like Asjha over Nneka this year may fall in the same category.
 
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OneTrickPony said:
Anyone that watched the two games last night knows the truth about men's and women's basketball. The men are bigger and excellent athletes, but the women know how to play the game. Maddening watching the men!
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Exactly! Though the Brazil men's team knew how to play.
 
Assists: men 11, women 27.

I like Chris Paul, but he's not Magic or Stockton.

Melo shot 10% and Kobe and Kevin shot 30%. LeBron got his points based on his athleticism.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Assists: men 11, women 27.

I like Chris Paul, but he's not Magic or Stockton.

Melo shot 10% and Kobe and Kevin shot 30%. LeBron got his points based on his athleticism.
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LeBron for the longest time didn't do what he did last night, which is simply drive to the damn post every time he wants to unless he has a wide open shot from outside. He simply can't be stopped around the basket; his physical strength, hang time, and ability to utilize multiple release points, are just unfair. Team USA is going to need him to be that guy in the Olympics...and Durant is going to need to hit more shots from beyond the arc. Which he will, BTW. I think he was too jacked up about repping PG County at the Verizon Center with the President there. He was a force of nature at the 2010 FIBA championships.
 
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Coler said:
I still think EDD should have been at least in the pool of players looked at for the team. I mean how many 6'5 players have guard like skills? I don't think any team that USA would face could guard her. Yes Nneka would have been a good choice. But if it came down to her or Elena. I would choose Elena, without blinking twice.

But oh well, I believe EDD will be on the 2016 team.

Go USA!
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The problem isn't so much that EDD wasn't good enough to make the team, the question is - which guard or guard/forward do you remove from the roster to make room for her?
 
HuskyNan said:
The problem isn't so much that EDD wasn't good enough to make the team, the question is - which guard or guard/forward do you remove from the roster to make room for her?
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Swin Cash perhaps. She hasn't had the best year. So I would replace her with EDD.
 
Coler said:
Swin Cash perhaps. She hasn't had the best year. So I would replace her with EDD.
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Right, she has not had a great year in the W. But she is one of the tri-captains, which says she brings a lot to the team that can't be measured.
 
If you are going to (hypothetically) replace Swin, then I would have to agree with Cardfan that, at this point, Nneka has shown more at a MUCH higher level of competition than EDD. I think Nneka (as of today) could defend EDD and hold her to about 10-12 points, and score 20-25 against her while outrebounding her by a wide margin. In a few years, that may not be the case.
 
All this talk about EDD and Nneka is silly. (yea I said it)

Here is the player pool for the 2012 Olympics:
Bird, Taurasi, Whalen, Harding, Lawson, Montgomery, Poindexter
Augustus, Cash, Brunson, Catchings, Dupree, Jones, McCoughtry, Moore, Parker, Young
Fowles, Charles, Appel, Griner

EDD and Nneka are not in the pool. They cannot be picked to replace anyone one the final 12. They are not even in the pool to be picked.

Now if people want to talk about 2014 WC when a new pool is established, then they can be talked about (without sounding silly) :rolleyes:
 
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JoePgh said:
If you are going to (hypothetically) replace Swin, then I would have to agree with Cardfan that, at this point, Nneka has shown more at a MUCH higher level of competition than EDD. I think Nneka (as of today) could defend EDD and hold her to about 10-12 points, and score 20-25 against her while outrebounding her by a wide margin. In a few years, that may not be the case.
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Nneka was on the same team World University team last summer, and the coach raved about how EDD was the best player on the team. EDD has tools that Nneka doesn't. EDD is 6'5, can handle the ball, shoot anywhere on the floor. Nneka is a better rebounder, yes. But EDD is a hands down better offensive player. And again she's 6'5.
 
meyers7 said:
All this talk about EDD and Nneka is silly. (yea I said it)

Here is the player pool for the 2012 Olympics:
Bird, Taurasi, Whalen, Harding, Lawson, Montgomery, Poindexter
Augustus, Cash, Brunson, Catchings, Dupree, Jones, McCoughtry, Moore, Parker, Young
Fowles, Charles, Appel, Griner

EDD and Nneka are not in the pool. They cannot be picked to replace anyone one the final 12. They are not even in the pool to be picked.

Now if people want to talk about 2014 WC when a new pool is established, then they can be talked about (without sounding silly) :rolleyes:
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Why do you hate silly people so much...?

Oh wait...sorry...thought this was the Cesspool...never mind! ;)
 
alexrgct said:
LeBron for the longest time didn't do what he did last night, which is simply drive to the damn post every time he wants to unless he has a wide open shot from outside. He simply can't be stopped around the basket; his physical strength, hang time, and ability to utilize multiple release points, are just unfair. Team USA is going to need him to be that guy in the Olympics...and Durant is going to need to hit more shots from beyond the arc. Which he will, BTW. I think he was too jacked up about repping PG County at the Verizon Center with the President there. He was a force of nature at the 2010 FIBA championships.
Expand ...

Kevin drew the loudest cheers last night of anyone not named Barack.

Kobe and LeBron got lots of noise during the intros, but about 40% and 20% boos, respectively. When LeBron dunked to get the lead for the USA, it was all cheering.

This was a Washington Wizards/Washington Mystics/Maryland/Georgetown crowd. Coach K, interestingly, got a lot of boos when introduced.

There was no booing during game 1. The booing started with the intros in game 2. Definitely a different atmosphere.
 
JoePgh said:
Cardfan, I think your position is very defensible, and I would say that there is no question that Nneka's performance in the WNBA this year has exceeded Swin's and probably at least equalled Asjha's. But you have to remember that 11 out of 12 members of the Olympic team were chosen in April, before the WNBA season had even started, so you really can't use her WNBA performance as evidence for your case. You've said that she should have been chosen after Griner declined to participate, but at that point you are talking about the 12th member of the team, who will be mostly a practice player in any case. For that purpose, someone who knows the coach's system and his expectations in practice is probably a better fit than someone who would be new to both.

If the WNBA season had been played when the roster was originally chosen, I think it is quite likely that Nneka would have been chosen.

The other factor is that some decisions in Olympic play are made to recognize a career achievement more than current skill. In 2004, Bird and Taurasi made the roster but played behind Dawn Staley, which was questionable based on their relative skills in 2004. But it was right to recognize Staley's whole career by giving her a premier role on her last Olympic team. I think that choosing someone like Asjha over Nneka this year may fall in the same category.
Expand ...

I understand and don't disagree with any of your points (or Ice or others). I also agree also that the team could use another guard vs. post, and Lawson could have helped too. My whole premise is that I believe Nneka is more of a complete player than Griner at this point, therefore, if Griner was considered for the team, I thought Nneka should have been as well. Obviously I'm in a minority in that opinion, but that's okay.
 
Kibitzer said:
I can understand Cardfan's loyalty to Nneka and I respect his desire to express his view here, that she should have been one of the twelve players selected. Surely a similar case could have been made for Kara Lawson (or perhaps some others) but no one stepped up with Cardfan's zeal and persistence.

Speaking of persistence, sometimes (as on this board about this topic) it is not only futile, but ultimately counterproductive. Think about what W.C. Fields had to say about it:

"If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. If that doesn't work, quit! There's no point in being a damned fool about it."​
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well, I'm not a dood, and I'm really not loyal to Nneka per se, I just think she is amazing player and person. :) I'm sure she (and Chiney) will be on the 2016 team.
 
cardfan said:
I understand and don't disagree with any of your points (or Ice or others). I also agree also that the team could use another guard vs. post, and Lawson could have helped too. My whole premise is that I believe Nneka is more of a complete player than Griner at this point, therefore, if Griner was considered for the team, I thought Nneka should have been as well. Obviously I'm in a minority in that opinion, but that's okay.
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I think that Nneka may be a more complete and skilled player than Griner, which is why I gave her (and EDD) consideration in my personal POY voting. But Griner is 6'8" and has a 7'4" wingspan. She is the best female player in the world with those traits, and, in basketball, those traits are key.
 
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cardfan said:
I understand and don't disagree with any of your points (or Ice or others). I also agree also that the team could use another guard vs. post, and Lawson could have helped too. My whole premise is that I believe Nneka is more of a complete player than Griner at this point, therefore, if Griner was considered for the team, I thought Nneka should have been as well. Obviously I'm in a minority in that opinion, but that's okay.
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Nneka, I agree. Chiney, too early to say. Depends on her development (and other factors, including the competition). I don't think Nneka was quite ready for 2012 in terms of experience, though she is good enough to play with the 12 who made it. Chiney is at least 2-3 years from being ready in terms of performance, in my view.
 
MilfordHusky said:
Nneka, I agree. Chiney, too early to say. Depends on her development (and other factors, including the competition). I don't think Nneka was quite ready for 2012 in terms of experience, though she is good enough to play with the 12 who made it. Chiney is at least 2-3 years from being ready in terms of performance, in my view.
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I agree Chiney underformed and gave way to Nneka, but I'd bet money she will have break out Jr and Sr years at Stanford. :)
 
OneTrickPony said:
Why do you hate silly people so much...?

Oh wait...sorry...thought this was the Cesspool...never mind! ;)
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Don't hate them, just find them silly. Don't really hate anyone, though there are a couple I despise (cough cough "ex" cough cough). :cool:
 
cardfan said:
I agree Chiney underformed and gave way to Nneka, but I'd bet money she will have break out Jr and Sr years at Stanford. :)
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I don't know that Chiney underperformed. We'll see how she does without her sister. I expect her to be more assertive and to be working really hard over the summer. Like Nneka 2 years ago, Chiney is not ready for the Olympics as a soph/junior-to-be. Projecting out, I see the Olympics as a real possibility, whether in 2016 or 2020. My point is that it's a projection over multiple years. Nneka is much, much closer to ready. Who knows? In 2 years, Chiney may be better than Nneka is now, though Nneka has set the bar very, very high.
 
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