Rebuilding UConn once again

[HopJim]

I'm all for giving Ice more minutes..........I believe she can be an impact player for UConn this season if given the chance to figure things out.............the team could certainly use her size, strength and her offensive contributions......her shots from the top of the key and the three point line were lethal in high school and I'm confident she will make her share at the college level too..........

Agree. Ice is getting open shots but missing layups. Appears at time she is trying too hard, speeding up when all she needs is to complete plays she has made for years. On defense, she is still a bit deliberate, but that may be expected for someone coming off a knee operation. Against big bodies, she boxes out well and just needs to get into position a second or two quicker. We have games coming up against teams that have true, top level bigs - is there another option?

 

[BRS24]

In prior years, perhaps we did not see any obvious "rebuilding" during the season, however maybe there were a number of small rebuilding stages that the teams went thru after these parts of the season:

1 - summer workouts and/or EU trip​

2 - Non-conference games/holiday tourney/end of year games​

3 - BE games​

4 - BE tourney​

5 - NCAA tourney​

​

Each of these phases is different, and after each, the coaches have to prepare for the next section, with the ultimate prep to the NCAA tourney. However, each time there is a significant time/season ending injury, the coaches have to redo lineups/sub patterns. So this year, the team looked a certain way during #1, then Jana gets hurt, so prep for the #2 period changes. Before they can finish #2, Azzi is out, so it was on the fly for the MD/MN games and a short window to prep for UCLA/KS. This week may be used to rebuild for the four non-con games (TX, Ball St, UNC, L'ville).

Moving onto #3, rebuilding may take place for the BE season b/w end of Dec and March 2, with a sprinkling on non-con games vs ND & S Carolina. These latter two games may act like a litmus test of "where are we" and "what do we need to do for the NCAAT.

Normally (and maybe we've not seen that since prior to the 2019-20 season), there's some tinkering on matchups, sub pattern, however in the past it was pretty set based on the lack of surprises. And now? Caroline & Ayanna are day to day, Azzi is out, so the expected constant of starters/subs is less known.

 

[BRS24]

Agree. Ice is getting open shots but missing layups. Appears at time she is trying too hard, speeding up when all she needs is to complete plays she has made for years. On defense, she is still a bit deliberate, but that may be expected for someone coming off a knee operation. Against big bodies, she boxes out well and just needs to get into position a second or two quicker. We have games coming up against teams that have true, top level bigs - is there another option?

Quite a few times during the Kansas game, I observed Nika and Aaliyah saying and motioning to the others to slow down as the pace got a bit frenetic and messy.

 

[willtalk]

Geno is a systems coach. It was a great system that really worked before the type of recruit coming out of high school changed. UConns success fed on itself with it becoming a destination of choice for most top recruits. Geno could pick and choose from the best of the crop for players that fit into his system. Due to change and now really bad luck, UConn has not won a natty in some time. That was a major attraction for many recruits. The UConn being players dream destination is gradually wearing off. Paige was a major get that kept the UConn image alive. It brought in Fudd and together they were expected to win at least one if not more nattys. Well unless UConn has some really good luck in the Playoffs that seems a pipe dream.

Geno has not changed, but the players coming out of high school have. Also the number of really good coaches in WCBB has increased. Frankly when Geno first stated, womens basketball coaches with a few exceptions really sucked. Any good coach was going to eventually stand out and create a good program. Geno, being better than good was able to build up a dynasty. It was that dynasty that fed on itself and kept the dominance going even as coaching improved. Well the change came with the different type of players coming out of high school and the rule change that allowed players to change schools at will did not help either.

What I am getting at is tha it is unrealistic to expect UConn to return to the level of dominance it once had in WCBB. In fact it appears that its ceiling would just be one of many contending teams each year.

 

[Rowdy831]

I'm not about to jump on the Amari bandwagon but if I was to, I would think that it would be a good thing if they sent Amari to the film room and have her spend a lot of time watching Kansas' Jefferson play offense. This way she might learn how to use the length of her arms as a scoring asset. They are built similarly so maybe Amari could actually become more of a threat on offense.
However, to be honest I am guessing that this type of coaching has already been tried and we have what we have.

Amari was a top 5 recruit. At some point the coaches might want to look in the mirror when it comes to developing tall players. Amari, in my opinion, doesn't need to be an offensive force to be valuable. She needs to be able to defend and rebound which will take a lot of pressure off AE. She needs minutes and a lot of them with specific game goals explained in detail by her coach. UConn may not be able to win against teams with length without her this season.

 

[Centerstream]

Amari was a top 5 recruit. At some point the coaches might want to look in the mirror when it comes to developing tall players. Amari, in my opinion, doesn't need to be an offensive force to be valuable. She needs to be able to defend and rebound which will take a lot of pressure off AE. She needs minutes and a lot of them with specific game goals explained in detail by her coach. UConn may not be able to win against teams with length without her this season.

I'm pretty sure that this is what practice is for and am also pretty sure that she has yet to be consistent and capable during practice. If she was, she would have been seeing more game time.
But I do hope that Amari earns more game time. In the Caymans she really didn't have any stats to brag about but she was a short term asset. To me, that was pretty much a first.

 

[hoophuskee]

Geno is a systems coach. It was a great system that really worked before the type of recruit coming out of high school changed. UConns success fed on itself with it becoming a destination of choice for most top recruits. Geno could pick and choose from the best of the crop for players that fit into his system. Due to change and now really bad luck, UConn has not won a natty in some time. That was a major attraction for many recruits. The UConn being players dream destination is gradually wearing off. Paige was a major get that kept the UConn image alive. It brought in Fudd and together they were expected to win at least one if not more nattys. Well unless UConn has some really good luck in the Playoffs that seems a pipe dream.

Geno has not changed, but the players coming out of high school have. Also the number of really good coaches in WCBB has increased. Frankly when Geno first stated, womens basketball coaches with a few exceptions really sucked. Any good coach was going to eventually stand out and create a good program. Geno, being better than good was able to build up a dynasty. It was that dynasty that fed on itself and kept the dominance going even as coaching improved. Well the change came with the different type of players coming out of high school and the rule change that allowed players to change schools at will did not help either.

What I am getting at is tha it is unrealistic to expect UConn to return to the level of dominance it once had in WCBB. In fact it appears that its ceiling would just be one of many contending teams each year.

The only thing that has significantly changed is injuires. It has nothing to do with Geno's system or how the times have changed. Not sure why your post barely glossed over "injuries."

With that said you are correct in tone imo to imply the futrure might be tougher due to lack of current success.(ie.e "wearing off.").

 

[Longtime fan]

Tony, I do agree with most of what you spell out but we currently have one AA playing. AE played like an AA most of last season including her big game of 25 against SC. AE needs to step up her play again . Once again we have too many key players injured that will make this a most difficult season . If the freshmen can make a huge developmental leap by the end of the year then maybe we can make the final four.

Maybe . But you are assuming our freshman are all top tier in the nation. I am seeing freshmen on other teams who look amazing. So ours may not e as superior as we think. Certainly , they all show great talent. KK is already distinguishing herself. And she hasn't stated hitting her shot yet. I know Shade is a hard core, dependable, star player. Once again, the game is moving a bit fast for her, at the moment. Q seems to be a bit of a ' wild card." Good looking athlete and , we hope and believe a fine shooter. But I think more than that. She can do it all. But needs time and experience. Nonetheless, it is a reach to think all three will be first team 'best freshmen of the year' come March. And with AZZI gone; maybe Caroline gone; and Jana gone, that is a huge ask. The season ending injuries to UCONN have been with their best players. Similar to a fine NFL team losing the QB for the years ( see NY Jets ). It is too much to make up, in an environment where everyone has great players.

 

[jonack]

Amari was a top 5 recruit? Wow.., a top 5 recruit still not playing into her junior year. Yikes!

 

[willtalk]

The only thing that has significantly changed is injuires. It has nothing to do with Geno's system or how the times have changed. Not sure why your post barely glossed over "injuries."

With that said you are correct in tone imo to imply the futrure might be tougher due to lack of current success.(ie.e "wearing off.").

Even before the injuries, the lack of Geno being able to get the right type of players had already had an effect. The biggest killer for him was losing Stevens a year earlier than he anticipated. Paige probable was the exception. She is still old school and that is why UConn was her dream school. She brought in Fudd but both did not work out DUE TO INJURIES. Had they stayed healthy, UConn reputation would have had a resurgence and it would have effected recruiting for at least a while longer. I do not know if I emphasized that in this post, but it was always strongly implied.

I thought I began to see a decline in UConns drawing power the year that they signed Christine Williams amd Nelson Ododa. They signed relatively late out of a weak high school class. If you remember, their was no real concenses top recruit and it constantly changed though out the season. CW was just the one there at the end sort of winning it by default. While thought Ododa still had a big upside, I felt CW had peaked early with little upside left. That was not your typical UConn recruiting class although at the time most UConn fans did not see it. Getting Paige turned it all around and Fudd was residual icing on the cake. Had they stayed healthy everything would have been different, but eventually UConn would stiill have ended up where they are now. Paige gave UConn's programe a reprive but even had she stayed healthy, I doubt she could have ever been been replaced after she was gone.

 

[Waquoit]

Nobody has talked about the tendonitis in Paige s knee.

I'm thinking that's because no good can come from it.

 

[hoophuskee]

Even before the injuries, the lack of Geno being able to get the right type of players had already had an effect. The biggest killer for him was losing Stevens a year earlier than he anticipated. Paige probable was the exception. She is still old school and that is why UConn was her dream school. She brought in Fudd but both did not work out DUE TO INJURIES. Had they stayed healthy, UConn reputation would have had a resurgence and it would have effected recruiting for at least a while longer. I do not know if I emphasized that in this post, but it was always strongly implied.

I thought I began to see a decline in UConns drawing power the year that they signed Christine Williams amd Nelson Ododa. They signed relatively late out of a weak high school class. If you remember, their was no real concenses top recruit and it constantly changed though out the season. CW was just the one there at the end sort of winning it by default. While thought Ododa still had a big upside, I felt CW had peaked early with little upside left. That was not your typical UConn recruiting class although at the time most UConn fans did not see it. Getting Paige turned it all around and Fudd was residual icing on the cake. Had they stayed healthy everything would have been different, but eventually UConn would stiill have ended up where they are now. Paige gave UConn's programe a reprive but even had she stayed healthy, I doubt she could have ever been been replaced after she was gone.

I agree with the middle but don't agree with your beginning and your "end conclusion." First off, what's happened has been bad luck. That has nothing to do with game changing, better players, better coaching from others etc. Geno's "system" for winning titles has been he has gotten a superstar and enough support for the superstar. It has nothing to do with "a decline." The vey point you make about how the game has better players is a direct contradiction to the top 3 players Geno got before Paige - the recent 3 3 before her were Walker, Dangerfield and CWill. They were ranked 1/1/3. Then take a look at the Stewie class of Stewi/MoJeff, and Tuck. All three in this one class were all better than the 3 of Walker/Danger and CWill despite overall the recent three having the higher rating. - It has nothing to do with "getting the right type of player," rather it's been he either hasn't gotten the "super player", or his team has gotten crushed with injuries.

The risk of getting the number 1/2/3 high school player is if they aren't that great, then you are behind the eight ball a bit to get much of a deep bench unless it’s something like senior to freshman. So, you can get stuck from time to time with a top h/s recruit isn't that great and for 1-2 years you lose out on other younger elite recruits because they would be in direct competition with a prior elite recruit.

In regard to UCONN would have eventually ended up where they are - probably you are correct when the day came when Geno would have announced his retirement. But until then - as you point out injuries have been so crucial- it would have been very obvious that UCONN would have kept steamrolling along. They probably win a tilte if Walker stays her senior year. And after Paige got her title or titles - then for example a player like Sarah Strong may have committed. And obviously UCONN would have been an enormous enormous juggernaut with a healthy Azzi leading her senior year backed up a senior healthy Ducharme. The beat just would have gone on.

This team going forward beyond this year and next is set up for Sarah Strong. If Azzi and Caroline and overall the team being healthy, we would have several years over the next 5 that teams that got a 2seed would not be celebrating on Selection Day if they got "stuck" in UCONN's region.

 

[Plebe]

Amari was a top 5 recruit? Wow.., a top 5 recruit still not playing into her junior year. Yikes!

She wasn't a top 5 recruit. I don't know why people keep saying this all of a sudden.

 

[hard2please]

one thing that doesnt need rebuilding is tonyc s optimism

 

[reelfan]

Watch the PHYSICAL play of the North Carolina / South Carolina game. UCONN has nothing to match it.

 

[SEbluebood]

Watch the PHYSICAL play of the North Carolina / South Carolina game. UCONN has nothing to match it.

Ditto with VT and LSU. With all the injuries, UConn does not have nearly enough horses to compete with top teams!

 

[Woof 101]

I don't know many skilled top-ten national recruits that end up playing mop-up minutes for their entire four year stay.........Just once I'd like to see Amari start a game and be told that she's playing a minimum of 27 minutes regardless of mistakes..........I think her confidence is shot and she feels those partial fourth-quarter minutes are almost meaningless at this point in her career...........

Just a guess but one has to show effort in practice. Again just a guess on my part, CD and all the assistants would be stroking and coaching her every day in practice. This along with team-mates as has been a very open practice over the years.
Her height alone is needed to help Aaliyah to say the least.

 

[Charliebball]

Just a guess but one has to show effort in practice. Again just a guess on my part, CD and all the assistants would be stroking and coaching her every day in practice. This along with team-mates as has been a very open practice over the years.
Her height alone is needed to help Aaliyah to say the least.

I'm puzzled by Amari's quality of play considering her offensive skills which everybody in the know at UConn says are extensive.......clearly Geno doesn't trust her but at this point, she's needed even if just to give Aaliayah a rest......

 

[Huskie02]

I'm puzzled by Amari's quality of play considering her offensive skills which everybody in the know at UConn says are extensive.......clearly Geno doesn't trust her but at this point, she's needed even if just to give Aaliayah a rest......

Height means nothing if you can’t rebound or mix it up under the basket! She the 15th rated recruit in her class.

 

[Gordo]

Jana, Ice and Ayanna could be a pretty formidable frontcourt if all are healthy, and I would expect Geno to find additional frontcourt help in the portal and/or overseas........

Maybe, but we haven't seen anything from any of them in reality.

 

[Huskie02]

I'm not about to jump on the Amari bandwagon but if I was to, I would think that it would be a good thing if they sent Amari to the film room and have her spend a lot of time watching Kansas' Jefferson play offense. This way she might learn how to use the length of her arms as a scoring asset. They are built similarly so maybe Amari could actually become more of a threat on offense.
However, to be honest I am guessing that this type of coaching has already been tried and we have what we have.

Is there a big women’s basketball camp they can send Amari to next summer? What a shame to have so much potential and not use it!

 

[hoophuskee]

I'm puzzled by Amari's quality of play considering her offensive skills which everybody in the know at UConn says are extensive.......clearly Geno doesn't trust her but at this point, she's needed even if just to give Aaliayah a rest......

Her offensive skills are/ and have been extremely overrated. Part of "having skills" is being consistent with them. She is practicing every day and when she comes on the court - even in blowouts she doesn't produce. Amari has had a lot more time playing in practices to show herself vs for example Ice this year and Patterson last year.

We know a big weakness on the team is the inside yet Amari at 6'6 can't even beat iut the smnaller, younger players. If she really had these quality offensive skills /or if what she has in terms of skills really meant much, then she would have ouplayed the younger players in Practices. Obviously she isn't. So for example - if she has a soft touch inside but can't hold her position in addition to in other situations lose balance easily when getting bumped while taking a shot -- her soft touch is negated because she just doesn't have the strength to utltize her touch. This is no more unusual than a player for example a guard with an amazing shot but can't get off her shot or defend well because she isn't athletic enough; her skills can't be utlilized.

While Ice is also throwing up bricks - for him to play Ice much more in games - it is just logical to assume that she is hitting shots at a much higher efficency than Amari. So, until Amari shows more in Practices, and we see the few minutes in games she doesn't show much, we just have to accept that her offensive skills have been highly overrated/exaggerated. There should be no confusion about this.

 

[Charliebball]

Her offensive skills are/ and have been extremely overrated. Part of "having skills" is being consistent with them. She is practicing every day and when she comes on the court - even in blowouts she doesn't produce. Amari has had a lot more time playing in practices to show herself vs for example Ice this year and Patterson last year.

We know a big weakness on the team is the inside yet Amari at 6'6 can't even beat iut the smnaller, younger players. If she really had these quality offensive skills /or if what she has in terms of skills really meant much, then she would have ouplayed the younger players in Practices. Obviously she isn't. So for example - if she has a soft touch inside but can't hold her position in addition to in other situations lose balance easily when getting bumped while taking a shot -- her soft touch is negated because she just doesn't have the strength to utltize her touch. This is no more unusual than a player for example a guard with an amazing shot but can't get off her shot or defend well because she isn't athletic enough; her skills can't be utlilized.

While Ice is also throwing up bricks - for him to play Ice much more in games - it is just logical to assume that she is hitting shots at a much higher efficency than Amari. So, until Amari shows more in Practices, and we see the few minutes in games she doesn't show much, we just have to accept that her offensive skills have been highly overrated/exaggerated. There should be no confusion about this.

I can't disagree with much you have said but I still think her issues are as much mental as physical.......hopefully, when UConn gets into conference play Geno will be able to get her more playing time so that she might become a more confident and productive player.........she's certainly not going to miraculously get better sitting on the bench....

 

[hoophuskee]

I can't disagree with much you have said but I still think her issues are as much mental as physical.......hopefully, when UConn gets into conference play Geno will be able to get her more playing time so that she might become a more confident and productive player.........she's certainly not going to miraculously get better sitting on the bench....

What's the point of Practices playing against players that are better than you if you don't get better? Since when do Practices not count? If they count, then why do you want to take valuable minutes away from superior players for a team with such extreme lack of playing time together and play someone that is worse than them?

And how does it make the other players "better" when they have one of their worst players in that they have to over-account for? For example, Geno is playing the better shooter that he feels is Ice. Wouldn’t it be great to give Ice as much minutes as possible with Edwards and Griffin? And when Patterson comes back, she is going to need time too. Why would it be smart to limit them for a team that has had so little time together to limit their on-court time together? If Ice is a better shooter and defender in Practices then wouldn't it make sense to believe that her gamer is more likely to help players like Edwards and Griffin be more productive ias well?

Yet the answer is to play the worse player that makes them less productive for a team so inexperienced playing together, and throw away Practices as if they don't count under the belief that Practices don't make player's better?

 

[Brown Eyed]

Is there a big women’s basketball camp they can send Amari to next summer? What a shame to have so much potential and not use it!

You do not have the heart and toughness there is no camp in the world that’s going to make you a great UConn post player

 

[Bigboote]

You do not have the heart and toughness there is no camp in the world that’s going to make you a great UConn post player

Not to mention the tutelage of CD is worth more than any camp.

 

[Longtime fan]

Ditto with VT and LSU. With all the injuries, UConn does not have nearly enough horses to compete with top teams!

I agree. Those teams seem bigger, faster, better, deeper and more athletic. And there are several other outstanding teams. But take LSU; No one can contain Angel Reese. Then they added Morrow ( who regularly dominated against UCONN under the hoop); then they added Van Lith (what's her name from Louisville); and they have their crop of signed high school stars....freshmen through seniors. UCONN has one experienced player ( Edwards ) in the paint, who is more a wing than a center, and a developing Ice Brady. And that is it. Yes, we have Paige and Muhl for a top set of guards. And then what? Aubrey, a great athlete who shows her talent in spurts. No Azzi; Maybe no Caroline? And the freshmen ( plus Inez and DeBerry ). We are counting on all of our players being several levels better than they. currently are, come March. And they will be. But those other teams are not at their peak yet either. It will be fun to watch. Most every game will be a battle.

 

[Longtime fan]

You do not have the heart and toughness there is no camp in the world that’s going to make you a great UConn post player

I am sure they have tried eveythingin the book to help Amari. Camps, vapors, witchcraft, philosophy .....and she has willingly tried them all. My speculation is she has the same problem that kept me from being shortstop for the Yankees..

 

[hoophuskee]

Then they added Morrow ( who regularly dominated against UCONN under the hoop); then they added Van Lith (what's her name from Louisville); and they have their crop of signed high school stars....freshmen through seniors. UCONN has one experienced player ( Edwards ) in the paint, who is more a wing than a center, and a developing Ice Brady. And that is it. Yes, we have Paige and Muhl for a top set of guards. And then what? Aubrey, a great athlete who shows her talent in spurts. No Azzi; Maybe no Caroline? And the freshmen ( plus Inez and DeBerry ). We are counting on all of our players being several levels better than they. currently are, come March. And they will be. But those other teams are not at their peak yet either. It will be fun to watch. Most every game will be a battle.

First off Morrow did not regularly dominate UCONN. In 2 of her 4 games she shot 9-20 and 8-26 combined 17-46. So shooting 37% in half the games is not "regularly dominating."

As far as Edwards; she is not a Wing in College. She has had 3 years in College so far in which she has been to a FF, been to a Finals, and been an All-American. And she has done this all as a combo Power Forward/Center.

Her shot isn't that great from the outside. An advantage that she has as a 4/5 is that she can take bigger players off the dribble. This all now goes away with her as a Wing. The Defense is just going to sag and dare her to shoot. When her shot is off- no more offensive rebounds. And her career passing numbers are awful. She has 177 assists vs 263 turnovers. And Grifin if at the other Wing she has 107 assists vs 129 turnovers.

So, now you have a lineup that can't shoot 3's, not that good from outside at the 2 pt range, and awful ability to pass. In addition, Edwards and Griffin at Wings playing together would be severly limited to put the ball on the floor and penetrate because the Defense is packed inside while focusing on Paige. And because neither Edwards or Griffin is a good passer, it makes it harder to get the ball to Paige in scoring positions.

I believe some are getting too caught up in Football where physicality is King. But this is basketball. Teams that don't shoot very well and pass very well - these are the basic fundamentals of basketball -- will not go far and you end up losing more games that you should. Put the frosh at the Wings. That's where they belong. -- Not Edwards. In Pros Edwards can play Wing because you have PF's and Centers that have some terrific outside shooters (in addition to Guards).

 

[BB Dawg]

Ditto with VT and LSU. With all the injuries, UConn does not have nearly enough horses to compete with top teams!

If it wasn't for LSU Portal transfers, I am not sure if they would have cracked the top 20. That said, the way they played last night against VT...IMO, they are the #1 team to beat. I think SC or UCLA would lose by 20 pts. - However, there is a lot of drama on that team.