Reading the SU board

[CTMike]

Not directed at you, BL... but I'm just curious why some folks in general seem to completely ignore or discount the wealth of NFL experience that Coach P was exposed to in his years after 'Cuse? Kind of silly to evaluate him today based on work 10 years ago, without considering all that he has learned since? I'd argue that his NFL experience is way more valuable to UConn's future than his time at Syracuse.

 

[pj]

The history is fairly clear, but it's hardly fair to say PP "fell off a cliff". He had Syracuse as a top 20 team for 10 years, then it fell to a top 50 team his last 3 years. After he left it fell further to a #100 team for 4 years, now they're fighting their way back to #60. It looks to me like Syracuse fell down a hill and PP did a fair job of suspending/delaying/minimizing the fall. Once he left, they went to the bottom of the hill.

Personally, I don't think it will be that easy to replicate what he did at Syracuse in his first 10 years. With the Internet there's more visibility to northeast high school players, and it's easier than ever for coaches elsewhere to make contact and fly here. Recruiting budgets and travel budgets for recruiting are much bigger with all the TV deals, and air fares haven't increased. There's no longer a big pool of under-recruited northeastern players, and kids aren't necessarily as attached to staying local for college. The Internet and cheap air fare have made long-distance travel seem more normal. The unsettled conference situation is another problem.

I still think he's an outstanding coach, though, and I think if he can win some recruiting battles then he'll get us sniffing at the top 25 every other year or so. If we can be consistently as good as WVU has been or Louisville will be this year, I think we can be very pleased.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Pj,

Apologies. I misinterpreted your statement. However the Syracuse fans have made a careers in Internet posting by saying that it isn't that their football team is bad, it's that their competition is so dam good... Neglecting to mention that they play the same conference schedule as us and have rarely fared better.

that was certainly the case at one point - but there's pretty much a consensus on the SU board now as to the badness of the football teams since 2001. That being said - this season the schedule is brutal and the competition is so damn good........

 

[businesslawyer]

Not directed at you, BL... but I'm just curious why some folks in general seem to completely ignore or discount the wealth of NFL experience that Coach P was exposed to in his years after 'Cuse? Kind of silly to evaluate him today based on work 10 years ago, without considering all that he has learned since? I'd argue that his NFL experience is way more valuable to UConn's future than his time at Syracuse.

Because my experience tells me that NFL experience, especially being an assistant, is just not that relevant to the job of being a college head coach. You probably increase your knowledge about many technical aspects of play, and more complicated offenses and defenses, but (i) with limited practice times in college I'm not sure more complicated is an advantage (see, e.g., Charley WEiss) and (ii) a head college coach has an awful lot of jobs to do running the program that are more important than his technical skill teaching skills.

I think it's a credit to P that he has his NFL experience on his resume. Does it seem nearly as relevant to me as his success at a nearby and roughly similarly situated college in predicting how well he will do here? I don't think it does.

Just my opinion.

 

[Dann]

cuse didn't invest into its program to kepp it in the top 20. PP had the cuse rocking and they watched the fall of bball with uconn rising and got distracted not putting the $$ into fball. other programs on that top level were fball first investing big $$ and thats why cuse slowly fell off. PP was a good coach so his last couple years they fell off slow. as soon as he left that school and its 80% of its dumb fanbase then realized how bad the school ignored $$ support for the program. its only recently the past month that they are talking about facility aditions and stuff. they are forever behind us. PP knows what hes doing and this is his last job in the fball world most likely. he also knows that uconn is willing to invest in the program so $$ won't be the issue like it became at cuse. hes hungry and so am i.
La la la la la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la la la la la

La la la la la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la la la la la
La la la la la la la la la la la

Swing sweet charity
Take what's left of me
A new beginning or is this the end
Swing sweet Seraphim
Take me back again
or watch me make the messes of men

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

that was certainly the case at one point - but there's pretty much a consensus on the SU board now as to the badness of the football teams since 2001. That being said - this season the schedule is brutal and the competition is so damn good........

Yeah, but once you get through this year, your schedule gets significantly easier next year.

 

[businesslawyer]

The history is fairly clear, but it's hardly fair to say PP "fell off a cliff". He had Syracuse as a top 20 team for 10 years, then it fell to a top 50 team his last 3 years. After he left it fell further to a #100 team for 4 years, now they're fighting their way back to #60. It looks to me like Syracuse fell down a hill and PP did a fair job of suspending/delaying/minimizing the fall. Once he left, they went to the bottom of the hill.

Personally, I don't think it will be that easy to replicate what he did at Syracuse in his first 10 years. With the Internet there's more visibility to northeast high school players, and it's easier than ever for coaches elsewhere to make contact and fly here. Recruiting budgets and travel budgets for recruiting are much bigger with all the TV deals, and air fares haven't increased. There's no longer a big pool of under-recruited northeastern players, and kids aren't necessarily as attached to staying local for college. The Internet and cheap air fare have made long-distance travel seem more normal. The unsettled conference situation is another problem.

I still think he's an outstanding coach, though, and I think if he can win some recruiting battles then he'll get us sniffing at the top 25 every other year or so. If we can be consistently as good as WVU has been or Louisville will be this year, I think we can be very pleased.

1. If you want to say "fell down the cliff" instead of "fell of the cliff" that is a reasonable position.

2. The great thing is we will get to see if he is still an outstanding coach and can be as consistently good as WVU has been. If he achieves that, he is an outstanding coach. And no one will be happier than I will be. But if that's what he is going to accomplish, our recruiting this year needs to move up the rankings by more than a margin of error amount, and we need to win a lot of games with no outstanding team on our schedule and a defense that returns a huge number of multi-year talented starters.

 

[Palatine]

P left? Like, voluntarily?

I don't understand why people need to fight about what is a clear history that P had at Syracuse as if it has, had or will have anything to do with Edsall. P had a great run at Syracuse, and then fell off the cliff and was fired with a fanbase that was demanding it. Hopefully, his career at UConn is more reflextive of the first part of his run at Syracuse than the last part.

Actually P. was fired by the new AD after leading SU to a bowl game. They stunk up the bowl.

While I agree that SU wasn't any great shakes and the P. machine was probably stalled, playing in a bowl game is far from falling off a cliff.

 

[CTMike]

Because my experience tells me that NFL experience, especially being an assistant, is just not that relevant to the job of being a college head coach. You probably increase your knowledge about many technical aspects of play, and more complicated offenses and defenses, but (i) with limited practice times in college I'm not sure more complicated is an advantage (see, e.g., Charley WEiss) and (ii) a head college coach has an awful lot of jobs to do running the program that are more important than his technical skill teaching skills.

I think it's a credit to P that he has his NFL experience on his resume. Does it seem nearly as relevant to me as his success at a nearby and roughly similarly situated college in predicting how well he will do here? I don't think it does.

Just my opinion.

Fair enough!

 

[businesslawyer]

Actually P. was fired by the new AD after leading SU to a bowl game. They stunk up the bowl.

While I agree that SU wasn't any great shakes and the P. machine was probably stalled, playing in a bowl game is far from falling off a cliff.

I will give you this -- when you're at the summit, falling off a cliff leaves you at a higher elevation than if you fall from halfway up the mountain.

P had a consistent, ranked program. The last five years he was below average within a Big East conference that was not nearly as deep as it is today. And, his last year, he went to a bowl game at 6-5 in a year that they only avoided a losing season because we turned it over 8 gazillion times in the dome while gaining about 600 yards. And the size of their losses were so huge, that was not a decent team -- it was a poor team.

But again, I am not trying to ignore or downplay the good that P accomplished early in his career in CNY. It's just that as someone who hires people, I tend to focus more on what they've done recently than what they've done less recently. I don't think that makes me unusual.

Since we're engaged, out of curiosity why is it important for people to be so sensitive in defending his record at Syracuse. We've hired him and he's our coach. Doesn't matter at this point whether he's Greg Robinson Nick Saban. He's our coach and we need to win football games.

 

[OrangeMojo]

Yeah, but once you get through this year, your schedule gets significantly easier next year.

certainly the case OOC - in conference I don't see much difference right now

 

[pj]

Since we're engaged, out of curiosity why is it important for people to be so sensitive in defending his record at Syracuse. We've hired him and he's our coach. Doesn't matter at this point whether he's Greg Robinson Nick Saban. He's our coach and we need to win football games.

In September we win football games. In May we win arguments.

 

[sdhusky]

P left? Like, voluntarily?

P had a great run at Syracuse, and then fell off the cliff and was fired with a fanbase that was demanding it. Hopefully, his career at UConn is more reflextive of the first part of his run at Syracuse than the last part.

PP tied for first his final year at SU. By your own definition that is success, not falling off a cliff.

 

[mattp]

say what you will about P's term in Syracuse, but he gave me one of my favorite BC losses of all time to close out 2004. i was actually a pretty big cuse fan that day.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Just a comment in general.......even after he's long gone and is sucking every ounce of energy out of UMD's fanbase........the divide between the Apologista's and Antagonista's is still very prevalent on this board.

 

[sdhusky]

P's record at Syracuse has zippo to do with what Edsall accomplished at UConn. But to act like it's only Edsall supporters who are raising questions about P's tenure at Syracuse when he was run out of town at the end of his stay is, to say the least, intellectually dishonest.

If Edsall did at UCONN what PP did while he was "falling off a cliff", you would have a even bigger BFieldHusky for him.

I don't get how mediocracy from Edsall is exalted but similar seasons from PP aren't.

 

[sdhusky]

Just a comment in general.......even after he's long gone and is sucking every ounce of energy out of UMD's fanbase........the divide between the Apologista's and Antagonista's is still very prevalent on this board.

I think its funny how someone like BL can think Edsall did a great job and a coach who achieved SIGNIFICANTLY better results is questioned at every turn.

 

[mattp]

I think its funny how someone like BL can think Edsall did a great job and a coach who achieved SIGNIFICANTLY better results is questioned at every turn.

i think it's funny that you'd compare the two situations considering how little they really have in common. i also think BL's main point is that Syracuse's past Orange Bowl appearances don't help us any more than Miami's Orange bowl appearances help us

 

[businesslawyer]

If Edsall did at UCONN what PP did while he was "falling off a cliff", you would have a even bigger BFieldHusky for him.

I don't get how mediocracy from Edsall is exalted but similar seasons from PP aren't.

You seriously don't understand that? Because if that is really the case, I can make it very easy for you.

College football is not a video game where anyone can take a program and make it significantly better than it is in real life. In college football, moving a team up in the world is a huge accomplishment, as Indiana tends to stay Indiana and Michigan tends to stay Michigan (not every year but for the most part). P had a great run when he started at Syracuse, but it was with a program that was traditionally the second strongest program in the Northeast and had produced players like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little. Edsall took a mediocre Yankee Conference (fine, Colonial) team in a small state where high school football is not king and made us competitive in a BCS conference in a short period of time. It is comparing apples and oranges. If you think, SDH, that P's apples at Syracuse are more impressive than Edsall's oranges in Storrs, that's fine. I think that is a perfectly reasonable opinion. But what is not reasonable is simply looking at results, and wins and losses, without factoring in the advantages and disadvantages of the program. How many championships did Urban Meyer win at Bowling Green and Utah? Because he wasn't as smart as when he got to Florida? Of course not. Because absolute grand slam home runs at each of those schools was accomplishing what he accomplished, notwithstanding that a grand slam home run in Gainesville requires more.

But again, it is not me, or Whaler, who ever turns these discussions to Edsall. It is those who for some reason those who don't want to see P analyzed (much less criticized) so we end up with those who don't like Edsall turning it back to him.

So, for the record, I rooted for P and Syracuse a lot, I like him as a man from what I see, I give him credit for his successes and responsibility for his failures while at Syracuse, he is not whom I would have hired to replace Edsall but I don't think it was stupid or irrational for UConn to have gone after him. He has my total support and when I drive to college park on September 15 I will not have any hesitation or nostalgia or be there for any purpose other than to root our boys in blue and white home. And none of that has a bloody thing to do with Randy Edsall whatsoever except in the mind of people filled with irrational anger.

Have a nice day.

 

[businesslawyer]

i think it's funny that you'd compare the two situations considering how little they really have in common

Said far more concisely than my effort. Thank you.

 

[pj]

P had a great run when he started at Syracuse, but it was with a program that was traditionally the second strongest program in the Northeast and had produced players like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little. Edsall took a mediocre Yankee Conference (fine, Colonial) team in a small state where high school football is not king and made us competitive in a BCS conference in a short period of time.

Edsall did a tremendous job and I'm very grateful for that. But what's more relevant to PP's record in 2004: a great running back who left Syracuse after the 1956 season, or the crappy program that Edsall dominated after PP left? (Edsall was 0-1 against PP, 5-1 against PP's successors).

Syracuse may have been a better football program than UConn in 2000, but by 2005 UConn was already a more advanced and attractive program. Tradition only takes you so far.

 

[johnhuskies95]

I have no idea what Floyd Little, Jim Brown, and Ernie Davis have to do with Syracuse's standing as a football program in the late 80's and early 90's.

By that token, Minnesota was a strong program in that same time period because they won a bunch of titles in the 50's and 60's.

Not to mention, Edsall was able to spend the last 5 years of his career here recruiting kids while having arguably the best facilities in the country this side of Texas. Meanwhile, Pasqualoni had to recruit kids to play on astro-turf with non-existent facilities.

 

[sdhusky]

You seriously don't understand that? Because if that is really the case, I can make it very easy for you.

College football is not a video game where anyone can take a program and make it significantly better than it is in real life. In college football, moving a team up in the world is a huge accomplishment, as Indiana tends to stay Indiana and Michigan tends to stay Michigan (not every year but for the most part). P had a great run when he started at Syracuse, but it was with a program that was traditionally the second strongest program in the Northeast and had produced players like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little. Edsall took a mediocre Yankee Conference (fine, Colonial) team in a small state where high school football is not king and made us competitive in a BCS conference in a short period of time. It is comparing apples and oranges. If you think, SDH, that P's apples at Syracuse are more impressive than Edsall's oranges in Storrs, that's fine. I think that is a perfectly reasonable opinion. But what is not reasonable is simply looking at results, and wins and losses, without factoring in the advantages and disadvantages of the program. How many championships did Urban Meyer win at Bowling Green and Utah? Because he wasn't as smart as when he got to Florida? Of course not. Because absolute grand slam home runs at each of those schools was accomplishing what he accomplished, notwithstanding that a grand slam home run in Gainesville requires more.

But again, it is not me, or Whaler, who ever turns these discussions to Edsall. It is those who for some reason those who don't want to see P analyzed (much less criticized) so we end up with those who don't like Edsall turning it back to him.

So, for the record, I rooted for P and Syracuse a lot, I like him as a man from what I see, I give him credit for his successes and responsibility for his failures while at Syracuse, he is not whom I would have hired to replace Edsall but I don't think it was stupid or irrational for UConn to have gone after him. He has my total support and when I drive to college park on September 15 I will not have any hesitation or nostalgia or be there for any purpose other than to root our boys in blue and white home. And none of that has a bloody thing to do with Randy Edsall whatsoever except in the mind of people filled with irrational anger.

Have a nice day.

Urban Meyer went 22-2 at Utah with a BCS bowl win - you really want to compare Edsall to Urban Meyer??? I would take Meyer's Utah record over Edsall UCONN record. Honest. Truth be told, I would be happy with 22-2

 

[whaler11]

Not directed at you, BL... but I'm just curious why some folks in general seem to completely ignore or discount the wealth of NFL experience that Coach P was exposed to in his years after 'Cuse? Kind of silly to evaluate him today based on work 10 years ago, without considering all that he has learned since? I'd argue that his NFL experience is way more valuable to UConn's future than his time at Syracuse.

Well for me, all I care about is what he does at UConn. I don't care if he coached the Dolphins or RHAM prior.

Chizik stunk at Iowa State and wins at Auburn. Bill B stunk with the Browns and wins in New England.

If PP wins at UConn I will be a huge fan. If he loses at home to MAC teams I'll ask for the next guy.

I am only judging him on what happens here. He had a team in a bad league coming off 8-5 and won 5 games against a mediocre schedule. There were some positives, but to me the effort against Louisville far outweighs them.

He's got a lot of front line talent in 2012 but lacks depth. The schedule is pathetic. No reason not to win at least 7 this year. The Dolphins, Cowboys and Orangemen don't matter. 2012 does.

 

[whaler11]

I will give you this -- when you're at the summit, falling off a cliff leaves you at a higher elevation than if you fall from halfway up the mountain.

P had a consistent, ranked program. The last five years he was below average within a Big East conference that was not nearly as deep as it is today. And, his last year, he went to a bowl game at 6-5 in a year that they only avoided a losing season because we turned it over 8 gazillion times in the dome while gaining about 600 yards. And the size of their losses were so huge, that was not a decent team -- it was a poor team.

But again, I am not trying to ignore or downplay the good that P accomplished early in his career in CNY. It's just that as someone who hires people, I tend to focus more on what they've done recently than what they've done less recently. I don't think that makes me unusual.

Since we're engaged, out of curiosity why is it important for people to be so sensitive in defending his record at Syracuse. We've hired him and he's our coach. Doesn't matter at this point whether he's Greg Robinson Nick Saban. He's our coach and we need to win football games.

Syracuse also scored on a Hail Mary from midfield to end the half if I remember correctly.

They played four good teams and lost by 110 points. They also lost to frigging Temple who was playing as a conference lame duck.

Why would anyone try to defend it. They stunk. It was a decade ago so it doesnt much matter - but seriously they stunk.

 

[whaler11]

Urban Meyer went 22-2 at Utah with a BCS bowl win - you really want to compare Edsall to Urban Meyer??? I would take Meyer's Utah record over Edsall UCONN record. Honest. Truth be told, I would be happy with 22-2

He compared Urban Meyer at Utah to Urban Meyer at Florida. He never compared Meyer to Edsall.

Maybe read prior to replying.

 

[CTMike]

Well for me, all I care about is what he does at UConn. I don't care if he coached the Dolphins or RHAM prior.

Chizik stunk at Iowa State and wins at Auburn. Bill B stunk with the Browns and wins in New England.

If PP wins at UConn I will be a huge fan. If he loses at home to MAC teams I'll ask for the next guy.

I am only judging him on what happens here. He had a team in a bad league coming off 8-5 and won 5 games against a mediocre schedule. There were some positives, but to me the effort against Louisville far outweighs them.

He's got a lot of front line talent in 2012 but lacks depth. The schedule is pathetic. No reason not to win at least 7 this year. The Dolphins, Cowboys and Orangemen don't matter. 2012 does.

7 is absolutely reasonable. We'll see how it plays out.

Do you agree that our win total last year had a multitude of causes, including a new system and lack of depth at key positions (such as QB, where we had no one serviceable)? Or is it as simple as UConn = Coach P = 5 Wins = Mediocre Coaching?

I'm not saying he was perfect or the next Bear Bryant, mind you. Just that I think he has the tools and knowledge to succeed here.

 

[whaler11]

7 is absolutely reasonable. We'll see how it plays out.

Do you agree that our win total last year had a multitude of causes, including a new system and lack of depth at key positions (such as QB, where we had no one serviceable)? Or is it as simple as UConn = Coach P = 5 Wins = Mediocre Coaching?

I'm not saying he was perfect or the next Bear Bryant, mind you. Just that I think he has the tools and knowledge to succeed here.

Of course there were multiple causes. There was no one to play QB and its tougher to win when you don't have a dynamic player like Brown or Todman.

I don't give much credence to the system stuff because you should coach the team you have, not the one you wish you had.

He has clearly won in the past and he's a pro's pro. They still handed away the Vandy game, I'll never forgive home losses to MAC teams and they STILL had a chance to win the league when Louisville came to town and they came out as flat as a pancake and got their asses handed to them.

It's in the past. All that matters now is if they win going forward.

 

[CTMike]

I think we are definitely reaching that "sick of the offseason/let's play some games" point here on the Boneyard. More fun to piss and moan about things we see with our own eyes.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I still don't understand how awfully Coach P managed the clock at certain points last season.

As Whaler mentioned as well, losing at home to MAC teams is just unacceptable.

I can't even remember that happening in The Rent era ( not to bring Edsall back into it - just as a point to be made ).