Reading the SU board

[pj]

P had a great run when he started at Syracuse, but it was with a program that was traditionally the second strongest program in the Northeast and had produced players like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little. Edsall took a mediocre Yankee Conference (fine, Colonial) team in a small state where high school football is not king and made us competitive in a BCS conference in a short period of time.

Edsall did a tremendous job and I'm very grateful for that. But what's more relevant to PP's record in 2004: a great running back who left Syracuse after the 1956 season, or the crappy program that Edsall dominated after PP left? (Edsall was 0-1 against PP, 5-1 against PP's successors).

Syracuse may have been a better football program than UConn in 2000, but by 2005 UConn was already a more advanced and attractive program. Tradition only takes you so far.

 

[johnhuskies95]

I have no idea what Floyd Little, Jim Brown, and Ernie Davis have to do with Syracuse's standing as a football program in the late 80's and early 90's.

By that token, Minnesota was a strong program in that same time period because they won a bunch of titles in the 50's and 60's.

Not to mention, Edsall was able to spend the last 5 years of his career here recruiting kids while having arguably the best facilities in the country this side of Texas. Meanwhile, Pasqualoni had to recruit kids to play on astro-turf with non-existent facilities.

 

[sdhusky]

You seriously don't understand that? Because if that is really the case, I can make it very easy for you.

College football is not a video game where anyone can take a program and make it significantly better than it is in real life. In college football, moving a team up in the world is a huge accomplishment, as Indiana tends to stay Indiana and Michigan tends to stay Michigan (not every year but for the most part). P had a great run when he started at Syracuse, but it was with a program that was traditionally the second strongest program in the Northeast and had produced players like Jim Brown, Ernie Davis and Floyd Little. Edsall took a mediocre Yankee Conference (fine, Colonial) team in a small state where high school football is not king and made us competitive in a BCS conference in a short period of time. It is comparing apples and oranges. If you think, SDH, that P's apples at Syracuse are more impressive than Edsall's oranges in Storrs, that's fine. I think that is a perfectly reasonable opinion. But what is not reasonable is simply looking at results, and wins and losses, without factoring in the advantages and disadvantages of the program. How many championships did Urban Meyer win at Bowling Green and Utah? Because he wasn't as smart as when he got to Florida? Of course not. Because absolute grand slam home runs at each of those schools was accomplishing what he accomplished, notwithstanding that a grand slam home run in Gainesville requires more.

But again, it is not me, or Whaler, who ever turns these discussions to Edsall. It is those who for some reason those who don't want to see P analyzed (much less criticized) so we end up with those who don't like Edsall turning it back to him.

So, for the record, I rooted for P and Syracuse a lot, I like him as a man from what I see, I give him credit for his successes and responsibility for his failures while at Syracuse, he is not whom I would have hired to replace Edsall but I don't think it was stupid or irrational for UConn to have gone after him. He has my total support and when I drive to college park on September 15 I will not have any hesitation or nostalgia or be there for any purpose other than to root our boys in blue and white home. And none of that has a bloody thing to do with Randy Edsall whatsoever except in the mind of people filled with irrational anger.

Have a nice day.

Urban Meyer went 22-2 at Utah with a BCS bowl win - you really want to compare Edsall to Urban Meyer??? I would take Meyer's Utah record over Edsall UCONN record. Honest. Truth be told, I would be happy with 22-2

 

[whaler11]

Not directed at you, BL... but I'm just curious why some folks in general seem to completely ignore or discount the wealth of NFL experience that Coach P was exposed to in his years after 'Cuse? Kind of silly to evaluate him today based on work 10 years ago, without considering all that he has learned since? I'd argue that his NFL experience is way more valuable to UConn's future than his time at Syracuse.

Well for me, all I care about is what he does at UConn. I don't care if he coached the Dolphins or RHAM prior.

Chizik stunk at Iowa State and wins at Auburn. Bill B stunk with the Browns and wins in New England.

If PP wins at UConn I will be a huge fan. If he loses at home to MAC teams I'll ask for the next guy.

I am only judging him on what happens here. He had a team in a bad league coming off 8-5 and won 5 games against a mediocre schedule. There were some positives, but to me the effort against Louisville far outweighs them.

He's got a lot of front line talent in 2012 but lacks depth. The schedule is pathetic. No reason not to win at least 7 this year. The Dolphins, Cowboys and Orangemen don't matter. 2012 does.

 

[whaler11]

I will give you this -- when you're at the summit, falling off a cliff leaves you at a higher elevation than if you fall from halfway up the mountain.

P had a consistent, ranked program. The last five years he was below average within a Big East conference that was not nearly as deep as it is today. And, his last year, he went to a bowl game at 6-5 in a year that they only avoided a losing season because we turned it over 8 gazillion times in the dome while gaining about 600 yards. And the size of their losses were so huge, that was not a decent team -- it was a poor team.

But again, I am not trying to ignore or downplay the good that P accomplished early in his career in CNY. It's just that as someone who hires people, I tend to focus more on what they've done recently than what they've done less recently. I don't think that makes me unusual.

Since we're engaged, out of curiosity why is it important for people to be so sensitive in defending his record at Syracuse. We've hired him and he's our coach. Doesn't matter at this point whether he's Greg Robinson Nick Saban. He's our coach and we need to win football games.

Syracuse also scored on a Hail Mary from midfield to end the half if I remember correctly.

They played four good teams and lost by 110 points. They also lost to frigging Temple who was playing as a conference lame duck.

Why would anyone try to defend it. They stunk. It was a decade ago so it doesnt much matter - but seriously they stunk.

 

[whaler11]

Urban Meyer went 22-2 at Utah with a BCS bowl win - you really want to compare Edsall to Urban Meyer??? I would take Meyer's Utah record over Edsall UCONN record. Honest. Truth be told, I would be happy with 22-2

He compared Urban Meyer at Utah to Urban Meyer at Florida. He never compared Meyer to Edsall.

Maybe read prior to replying.

 

[CTMike]

Well for me, all I care about is what he does at UConn. I don't care if he coached the Dolphins or RHAM prior.

Chizik stunk at Iowa State and wins at Auburn. Bill B stunk with the Browns and wins in New England.

If PP wins at UConn I will be a huge fan. If he loses at home to MAC teams I'll ask for the next guy.

I am only judging him on what happens here. He had a team in a bad league coming off 8-5 and won 5 games against a mediocre schedule. There were some positives, but to me the effort against Louisville far outweighs them.

He's got a lot of front line talent in 2012 but lacks depth. The schedule is pathetic. No reason not to win at least 7 this year. The Dolphins, Cowboys and Orangemen don't matter. 2012 does.

7 is absolutely reasonable. We'll see how it plays out.

Do you agree that our win total last year had a multitude of causes, including a new system and lack of depth at key positions (such as QB, where we had no one serviceable)? Or is it as simple as UConn = Coach P = 5 Wins = Mediocre Coaching?

I'm not saying he was perfect or the next Bear Bryant, mind you. Just that I think he has the tools and knowledge to succeed here.

 

[whaler11]

7 is absolutely reasonable. We'll see how it plays out.

Do you agree that our win total last year had a multitude of causes, including a new system and lack of depth at key positions (such as QB, where we had no one serviceable)? Or is it as simple as UConn = Coach P = 5 Wins = Mediocre Coaching?

I'm not saying he was perfect or the next Bear Bryant, mind you. Just that I think he has the tools and knowledge to succeed here.

Of course there were multiple causes. There was no one to play QB and its tougher to win when you don't have a dynamic player like Brown or Todman.

I don't give much credence to the system stuff because you should coach the team you have, not the one you wish you had.

He has clearly won in the past and he's a pro's pro. They still handed away the Vandy game, I'll never forgive home losses to MAC teams and they STILL had a chance to win the league when Louisville came to town and they came out as flat as a pancake and got their asses handed to them.

It's in the past. All that matters now is if they win going forward.

 

[CTMike]

I think we are definitely reaching that "sick of the offseason/let's play some games" point here on the Boneyard. More fun to piss and moan about things we see with our own eyes.

 

[ConnHuskBask]

I still don't understand how awfully Coach P managed the clock at certain points last season.

As Whaler mentioned as well, losing at home to MAC teams is just unacceptable.

I can't even remember that happening in The Rent era ( not to bring Edsall back into it - just as a point to be made ).

 

[UConnDan97]

Allow me to chime in, since I normally can't help myself. Let me preface everything I'm about to type by saying that I have no doubt whatsoever that everyone on this board (BC trolls excluded) love the Huskies and want the absolute best for them. For that, I applaud and respect you all. Here goes:

1) For Those Who Like to Bash Edsall - Edsall did some extremely impressive things during his time here at UConn, as Bizlaw has already pointed out. He took over a playoff-caliber 1-AA team (thanks in part to Skip Holtz) and turned them into a multiple bowl victory, BCS appearance 1-A team. You can qualify it, you can marginalize it, you can do anything else that you would like to it, but at the end of the day, there are plenty of FBS teams that would have stabbed their sister in the back for the decade-plus run that we had under Edsall. The way he left was rotten as hell, but the body of work was exceptional. Period.

2) For Those Who Like to Bash Pasqualoni - Pasqualoni did some extremely impressive things during his time at Syracuse. If you examine the era before him, as well as the era after him, Syracuse is nowhere near what he had them at. You can qualify it, you can marginalize it, but at the end of the day, he turned them into a multiple bowl victory, BCS appearance 1-A team. I don't want to hear about Floyd Little or Jim Brown or the E-Train. The kids PP recruited couldn't spell any one of them, nor did they see any of the black-and-white game tape. They were 18 years old, and they cared about being the next Graves, McNabb, Freeney, and Tebucky Jones (Sr., of course). AND OF COURSE NFL EXPERIENCE MATTERS!!! Some of you crack me up. Any one of us, if having had a multi-year experience at the top company or firm in our profession would have picked up more than a trick or two at what we did for having been there! C'mon!

3) For Those Who Like to Bash Each Other - Always keep in mind (I know some of you do) that we all love UConn. Period. We may have different ideas as to how to get us to the height of Mt. Everest, but we sure as hell all want to be there. And for , why is it that our most popular threads are things with names like "ACC" and "Reading the SU Board"?? It's embarrassing! It should be "UConn kicks others' a$$es yet again" and "I can't believe how other schools cannot be like us". For more on that type of shameless bragging, visit the WVU fansite, where they believe that they have cured cancer (even though they struggle to cure tooth decay....they should have gone to UConn Dentistry!)

Thanks for reading, and GO UCONN!!!

 

[UConnDan97]

Also, sorry if the Breakfast Club ending didn't embed correctly. It was going to make my post "epic"...

 

[CTMike]

Very well said. It won't stop the bickering, but very well said.

 

[UConnDan97]

Very well said. It won't stop the bickering, but very well said.

Not even with a Judd Nelson fist-pump during a song from Simple Minds?? Weird...

 

[whaler11]

No one really bashed PP.

 

[Husky68]

fhcRE's body of work was not exceptional. Never had a year end top 25 team. How can that be exceptional? Didn't say needed a top 10 or top 5 team, just one top 25 finish. How many teams have gotten into a BCS bowl and finished the year unranked? Says more about the BE being bad than fhcRE being exceptional.
If his body of work was exceptional he wouldn't have lasted 'till his dream school came a calling (or just responded to his call).

 

[UConnDan97]

How many teams have gotten into a BCS bowl and finished the year unranked?

You could have stopped the sentence at "How many teams have gotten into a BCS bowl." Once you've answered that question, you might wish to reconsider your post. Or don't. Whatever. I've spoken my peace in my aforementioned epic post. (Don't you.....forget about me....don't don't don't don't....)

 

[husky10]

fhcRE's body of work was not exceptional. Never had a year end top 25 team. How can that be exceptional? Didn't say needed a top 10 or top 5 team, just one top 25 finish. How many teams have gotten into a BCS bowl and finished the year unranked? Says more about the BE being bad than fhcRE being exceptional.
If his body of work was exceptional he wouldn't have lasted 'till his dream school came a calling (or just responded to his call).

What word do you use to describe what Edsall did at UCONN? Outstanding? Extraordinary? I think you are splitting hairs in this post as to what qualifys as exceptional. To change a program the way he did in such a short amount of time, imo, cannot be called just average.

As to the reason he was passed over for so many other jobs is some of the criticisms that most people on this board have. 1. He never seemed to compete with big time programs for recruits. 2. He never really developed a qb after Dan. 3. The simpleness of his offense. 4. His bend dont break defense. I think many, like myself believed that these attributes showed he had a ceiling on how far he could take a program. I think PP has already shown a better job doing these things and is the reason so many folks here are excited for what lies in store for UCONN football.

 

[businesslawyer]

7 is absolutely reasonable. We'll see how it plays out.

Do you agree that our win total last year had a multitude of causes, including a new system and lack of depth at key positions (such as QB, where we had no one serviceable)? Or is it as simple as UConn = Coach P = 5 Wins = Mediocre Coaching?

I'm not saying he was perfect or the next Bear Bryant, mind you. Just that I think he has the tools and knowledge to succeed here.

Of course there were a multitude of causes. And of course he has enough tools and knowlege that he may succeed. I blame him for giving Vandy away, and somewhat for changing the defense away from what it could have done well. I don't blame the staff last year for the offense at all. I blame lack of playmakers.

For the most part players win and lose games. I have made clear that is my position for years.

 

[UConnDan97]

I shouldn't entertain it further, but to continue on the "Edsall's body of work being exceptional"; in 1999, his first year, we lost 5 games by 25 points or more. The list of teams that dismantled us in such a fashion? Kentucky (okay, not bad), Hofstra (what?), James Madison (huh??), New Hampshire (holy $#it!), and a whopping 42 points to UMass (shoot me now!!). 10 years after the fact, in 2009, we showed that 1-AA teams didn't belong on the same field anymore (beat URI by 42), and beat teams like Baylor (by 12), Notre Dame (in OT), and South Carolina (by 13). Yeah....3 bowl wins and 5 appearances in a decade and two-time co-Big East champion....that's an exceptional body of work.

 

[businesslawyer]

Urban Meyer went 22-2 at Utah with a BCS bowl win - you really want to compare Edsall to Urban Meyer??? I would take Meyer's Utah record over Edsall UCONN record. Honest. Truth be told, I would be happy with 22-2

Are we having a discussion? Or am I just writing things so you can not read them and "respond" with whatever you like. Because I did not compare Edsall to Meyer and I've said every time I make the Meyer point that Edsall is not Urban Meyer.

Seriously -- if you don't care what I'm writing, why waste your time having a discussion?

 

[ZooCougar]

This is Edsall in a nutshell.

1. Terrible Record against the Top 25.

2. Places a huge emphasis on character and values.

3. Slow to take responsibility for results on the field, often deflecting blame to the players.

4. A good gameplanner who can get alot done with a little.

5. Slow to evolve and adapt when the plan isn't working or the conditions changed.

6. Lots of blind spots...

7. Great at developing running backs.

8. Terrible at developing QBs or QBs seem to get worse as time goes by underneath his glare from the sidelines.

---Not a pretty picture overall, but not terrible either. It's not so much that I dislike Edsall so much, as it is that I am so baffled by those here that continue with the worship of his incomplete body of work.

 

[pj]

I think husky10 has it just about perfect. Edsall was in many ways a terrific football coach, probably the perfect coach for helping us through the transition, but he wasn't bringing in talented players consistently and left the team with a big hole at quarterback and no depth at any position. It was only a matter of time before there were too many pieces missing at once and the program had some serious down years. PP has a chance to build the talent and depth levels and enable UConn to play at a higher level. Edsall never got us in the Top 25; PP will, I expect. We shall see. A good year on the field may help bring in some of the talented players considering us and get the program on its way. Pray the offensive line holds together!

 

[whaler11]

I think that Edsall was great for the job at hand. It was a great time for him to go for both parties.

 

[UConnDan97]

This is Edsall in a nutshell.

---Not a pretty picture overall, but not terrible either. It's not so much that I dislike Edsall so much, as it is that I am so baffled by those here that continue with the worship of his incomplete body of work.

Don't be baffled (it's not worship, by the way). I'm baffled that some people think his body of work is incomplete after 11 seasons, but let's just focus on your points:

1. Terrible Record against the Top 25. Most do. That's why they are the Top 25.

2. Places a huge emphasis on character and values. And....that's bad?

3. Slow to take responsibility for results on the field, often deflecting blame to the players. Unfortunately, like most coaches do...

4. A good gameplanner who can get alot done with a little. I agree.

5. Slow to evolve and adapt when the plan isn't working or the conditions changed. Unfortunately, like most coaches do. They say, "I'm implementing my system."

6. Lots of blind spots... ??

7. Great at developing running backs.
8. Terrible at developing QBs or QBs seem to get worse as time goes by underneath his glare from the sidelines. So few coaches are good at both. I would just argue that he wasn't very good at recruiting good QB's with the exception of Danny O.

So there you have it. My synopsis of your synopsis in a nutshell.