Ray Allen Presser and a non-yahoo/Boston view

[upstater]

Simple, really. Maybe Ray decides to retire after one or two more years. Maybe he wants to play a third. Now he has a contract for three years, instead of seeing a two-year deal expire in 2014, wanting to play one more year, and hoping someone offers him a one-year deal at age 39, when he might not get it (or only get it from a bad team wanting him to mentor young whippersnappers). He can now basically go out on his own terms.

That extra year of job security would probably be significant. Maybe not the primary factor, but there's a very good chance that a third year on the deal would be more important than money at this stage of his career.

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There is no job security. He can be cut after 2 years at which point he will have earned $9 million.

Which is less than $12 million.

The third year is totally irrelevant moneywise.

 

[upstater]

I don't think the Heat can "let him go", this isn't the NFL. Unless the contract has a team option or isn't fully guaranteed you can't just let a player go (at least without paying him).

Isn't this what I wrote?

I said the Heat can let him go and the guaranteed money still isn't as high as the money from Boston after 2 years. Of course the Heat can cut him after 2. Moneywise, there's no way Ray can match the Celtics offer unless he renegotiates.

 

[upstater]

Not when you've amassed more than $178,000,000 playing ball.

Even when you've made $178m it's more relevant. The years are irrelevant because you can be cut.

 

[Waquoit]

Since you're so smart, explain.

I'm going off memory from my undergrad days. IIRC, Etzioni said that there is no one way to motivate someone. Money is just one factor. An skilled worker in demand will go for the paycheck all other things being equal. But if you are doing grunt work, need the money and are easily replaced; the boss getting up in your grill will work. If you are set in the money department, money doesn't carry as much weight; other factors come into play like a more comfortable work environment or a better title and responsibilities. I'm guessing in Ray's case, having all the money he feels he needs, it's the way his game fits the Heat like a glove. People scoff at the word "respect" (as in respect = money), but in this case it fits. Ray was always the good soldier, he suborned his game for the greater good more than any of the other big 3. He's always been the good soldier, perhaps he was tired of being taken for granted. Instead of being taken for granted, he was made to feel wanted. And why should he go through 2 more years of frustration playing with a PG that doesn't mesh with him?

 

[upstater]

I'm going off memory from my undergrad days. IIRC, Etzioni said that there is no one way to motivate someone. Money is just one factor. An skilled worker in demand will go for the paycheck all other things being equal. But if you are doing grunt work, need the money and are easily replaced; the boss getting up in your grill will work. If you are set in the money department, money doesn't carry as much weight; other factors come into play like a more comfortable work environment or a better title and responsibilities. I'm guessing in Ray's case, having all the money he feels he needs, it's the way his game fits the Heat like a glove. People scoff at the word "respect" (as in respect = money), but in this case it fits. Ray was always the good soldier, he suborned his game for the greater good more than any of the other big 3. He's always been the good soldier, perhaps he was tired of being taken for granted. Instead of being taken for granted, he was made to feel wanted. And why should he go through 2 more years of frustration playing with a PG that doesn't mesh with him?

I think this is a lot of wasted breath and energy.

My first post in this thread said, it's not about money, it's about something else.

 

[nomar]

I actually didn't say that he can't be that smart, I said if he was such a genius he would have learned how to shoot from Ray. I implied he wasn't a genius. Realizing you have one of the best shooters ever on your team and asking for help and learning, most certainly is related to IQ/being smart - to use your words.

Either way it's silly for Boston fans to imply Rondo has a higher IQ or BBIQ than Ray.

Ray's a great player but I'm not implying Rondo has a higher BBIQ -- I'm stating it expressly: he does. He's a genius passer. Ray in his prime couldn't make the passes or moves that Rondo does. The way Rondo sees the floor is a gift only a few NBA players in a generation have. Ray's a Hall of Fame player, but that's not because he's a smart player (which he is) -- it's because he has the smoothest stroke in the history of basketball.

Rondo did use to work with Ray on his shot. It didn't really help. At some point he stopped. You can't say " oh it's stupid not to work with Ray" and pretend like that is actual proof of Rondo's IQ. Intelligent people make decisions that others may not agree with, all the time; it doesn't make them stupid.

Hey, I wish he worked with Ray more, but come on. And to think Rondo hasn't been working hard on his shot just because he's not a great shooter is to make an erroneous assumption. He has worked on his shot. I think it's better, actually. When he shoots the ball with confidence and is able to step into it -- rather than holding the ball while the defense sags, then chucking it up to beat the shot clock -- he even looks halfway decent.

 

[Buzzyboy]

I don't understand the point he was making, if those were his words, about the Celtics offer.

He was waiting for the Celts to pony up more cash, and when they didn't, he took much less cash than what the Celtics had ponied up.

Maybe I can't see the logic, but there had to be other reasons than money.

Another consideration is that Paul Pierce is a ball hog who needs to be the man even though he has come up empty so many times in the past few years that it isn't funny. It's ironic to me that Pierce could force shots and keep the ball away from other wide open teammates (Ray, in particular) occasionally make a big one and get lauded for being "the Man" and yet the numerous times it ends up costing the Celtics little or nothing is said. To have Ray continually deferring to Pierce was probably getting harder and harder to take, particularly with him now losing his starting spot. At this point of his career, why put up with that???? I know he loves' Doc Rivers and Garnett but with Pierce and especially Ronda gnawing at him, why not go out with a title or two where he'll be appreciated!!!!

 

[Buzzyboy]

You said that Rondo can't be that smart because if he was, he'd have figured out how to shoot the ball better. That doesn't make sense. How good a shooter you are has absolutely nothing to do with IQ -- BBIQ or otherwise.

What doesn't make sense if how you don't get the point that his unwillingness to take the time to learn from Ray was the point, not his ability to learn from him. I'm not saying I agree with him but I'm saying that the point he's trying to make is so very obviousl

 

[RichZ]

Ray's got plenty of money. In addition to his not insubstantial 16 years of NBA riches, he's a savvy investor, too. But mostly, he's an ego driven guy. I suspect he really wants to hit 3000 3 pointers. He's got 2718 right now. 2 years with the Celts at the #of minutes he was getting this year (and the # of passes he was getting of late when he worked his ass off to be open) with the likelihood of even fewer minutes, was not going to give him that opportunity, and the odds of signing with another team AFTER that 2 years and getting the required time and freedom to shoot were slim to none. Riley et al sold him on the idea of increased time and the ball when open because 'bron and wade were both being doubled -- basically the door to 3000 career threes wide open in front of him.

 

[Gurleyman]

I don't think it matters that Rondo stopped working out with Ray. Ray's workout is obsessive-compulsive. A different person could do the same thing and just burn themselves out. Not a blight on Rondo's character if he went with something different.

I also don't think Pierce was a ballhog or gloryhog. He was the best option late because he creates his own shot better than anyone else the C's had. If Ray comes open great, but if he isn't open on the catch and has to create his own look as the clock winds down, it's a bad spot. Always thought it was better to have Pierce with the ball, have him look for Ray (or KG posting), and if nothing's there, going on his own. And then have Rondo hide somewhere (which is why I think he's not an elite player - he's always been too timid in the big moments due to fear of pressure foul shots, etc.).

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[upstater]

Another consideration is that Paul Pierce is a ball hog who needs to be the man even though he has come up empty so many times in the past few years that it isn't funny. It's ironic to me that Pierce could force shots and keep the ball away from other wide open teammates (Ray, in particular) occasionally make a big one and get lauded for being "the Man" and yet the numerous times it ends up costing the Celtics little or nothing is said. To have Ray continually deferring to Pierce was probably getting harder and harder to take, particularly with him now losing his starting spot. At this point of his career, why put up with that???? I know he loves' Doc Rivers and Garnett but with Pierce and especially Ronda gnawing at him, why not go out with a title or two where he'll be appreciated!!!!

So, he went to Miami?

 

[BigErnMcCracken]

Another consideration is that Paul Pierce is a ball hog who needs to be the man even though he has come up empty so many times in the past few years that it isn't funny.

No. It's not.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Ray's a great player but I'm not implying Rondo has a higher BBIQ -- I'm stating it expressly: he does. He's a genius passer. Ray in his prime couldn't make the passes or moves that Rondo does. The way Rondo sees the floor is a gift only a few NBA players in a generation have. Ray's a Hall of Fame player, but that's not because he's a smart player (which he is) -- it's because he has the smoothest stroke in the history of basketball.

Rondo did use to work with Ray on his shot. It didn't really help. At some point he stopped. You can't say " oh it's stupid not to work with Ray" and pretend like that is actual proof of Rondo's IQ. Intelligent people make decisions that others may not agree with, all the time; it doesn't make them stupid.

Hey, I wish he worked with Ray more, but come on. And to think Rondo hasn't been working hard on his shot just because he's not a great shooter is to make an erroneous assumption. He has worked on his shot. I think it's better, actually. When he shoots the ball with confidence and is able to step into it -- rather than holding the ball while the defense sags, then chucking it up to beat the shot clock -- he even looks halfway decent.

It's hard to compare bball iq across different positions. Is Rondo as good coming off screens? Ray's not a pg, so passing is not his mainstay. Ray has a solid bball iq and is a better teammate than Rondo. Who cares about bball iq? I've seen Rondo make plenty of boneheaded plays.

 

[Huskies4ever]

Another consideration is that Paul Pierce is a ball hog who needs to be the man even though he has come up empty so many times in the past few years that it isn't funny. It's ironic to me that Pierce could force shots and keep the ball away from other wide open teammates (Ray, in particular) occasionally make a big one and get lauded for being "the Man" and yet the numerous times it ends up costing the Celtics little or nothing is said. To have Ray continually deferring to Pierce was probably getting harder and harder to take, particularly with him now losing his starting spot. At this point of his career, why put up with that???? I know he loves' Doc Rivers and Garnett but with Pierce and especially Ronda gnawing at him, why not go out with a title or two where he'll be appreciated!!!!

Supposedly Ray and Paul Pierce got along and respected each other. Doc had to balance RA, PP, KG, RR and for the most part, did a great job. Ray had to sacrifice the most.

 

[Waquoit]

I think this is a lot of wasted breath and energy.

My first post in this thread said, it's not about money, it's about something else.

You asked and I answered. Bad faith on your part.

 

[upstater]

You asked and I answered. Bad faith on your part.

Don't get angry. I read the first iteration. Bad faith is telling me to read something when the whole point of my post was that this wasn't about the money.

 

[nomar]

What doesn't make sense if how you don't get the point that his unwillingness to take the time to learn from Ray was the point, not his ability to learn from him. I'm not saying I agree with him but I'm saying that the point he's trying to make is so very obviousl

I got the point. It was not a good one, for the reasons I've explained. Making a poor decision does not make someone unintelligent. Period.

 

[Danzz]

Last season if Ainge didn't try to move Ray he at the very least had feelers out there. The Celtics signed Terry. Doc didn't start Ray. These are all reasons to question his future in Boston. Ray only has a few years left and Boston isn't going to win a championship but he can win one in Miami. If money isn't an issue for Ray, he made the right decision.
Professional athletes don't owe their teams a damn thing. The team would trade or cut them in a heartbeat if it was in the team's best interest but fans insist on whining about lack of loyalty when a player leaves for his own best interests. The player is perceived as greedy, selfish or disloyal while the team gets a pass. Good luck in Miami Ray.