Ray Allen Presser and a non-yahoo/Boston view

[Dogdeacon]

I watched Ray's 30 minute press conference last night and filtering thru that and the very one-sided Boston media evaluation here is where I come out.

1. Ray chose the Heat MOSTLY for basketball reasons, however even after 'leaning that way' he reached out to Kevin Garnett in an effort to see if the Celtics were willing to improve their offer.
So Ray had 2yrs, $6MM per on table and wanted a 3rd. He was silent about happened after KG texted him that "Danny would step up", so obviously when Danny didn't improve the Celtics offer to Ray (and Ray gave them the chance), Ray knew the writing was on the wall and the Celtics didn't really want him.

2. The Jason Terry signing and timing thereof complicates the situation. Did the Celtics first make their offer to Ray and then to Jason Terry? Ray could be seen as disloyal for likely telling Danny Ainge he was going to 'shop' their 2yr/$6MM per offer and that caused Ainge to create a backup plan of Jason Terry. But Ainge EASILY could have improved his offer to a 3rd year at this point to land Allen, but he didn't.

3. So I think Terry is a much better fit for the Celtics right now due to his greater ability to create his own shot and my GUESS is Ainge wanted Terry more and pushed harder for that knowing that Ray was at best a 50-50 proposition and not as good a fit at this point. Once Ainge got Terry, Ray knew his role would be even further reduced and Ainge felt no need to up his offer for a player that had become redundant. So its at this point that Ray isn't feeling the "love" from the Celtics. Ray didn't bolt to stick it to Danny. Due to the likely future role for Ray in Boston and Ray comparing his contract & urgency of resigning to KG's, Ray legitimately understood he wasn't a vital part of Boston's future. Over the recent seasons he'd shifted from being an equal partner of big 3-4 to a distant 4th most important Celtic. Now he goes in as the 4th or 5th most important player on the Heat, but I think its mentally easier to accept that in a new situation versus dealing with essentially a demotion with the Celtics and arguably (I bet he believes this) he'll be the 3rd most important player on offense. If he stays with the Celtics in 2012/13 he's the 5th - 6th most important player and likely continues to move down the depth chart.

Boston media trying to make this about Ray sticking it to the Celtics or making his entire decision because of years of pent up emotions is Boston creating their most salacious story and one that fits what Boston fans want to hear. Its definitely ironic that taking less money is what burns people so much, taking more money is easier to understand and its almost always easier to villify someone for chasing $$. However in this case taking less money has made every Celtic fan feel rejected.

Outside of questions from the Boston media, the press conference was very much about Ray talking with Pat Riley and Spoelstra and finding a similar mindset mostly in terms of basketball style of play. Ray knows his initially diminished role on the Celtics would continue to decline further because of the offense, personell and his aging body. So to go somewhere and play where defenders have to help more, he'll find more looks spotting up on the delayed break and won't have to run constantly thru screens to get open is the best way to prolong his career in a productive fashion. Add to that the much improved odds of winning a championship with the Heat. Add to that the Heat brining in Rashard Lewis simultaneously, someone who Ray help build into a max contract player and would certainly like to help rejuvanate.

So that's it. I think Ray is honestly sad about leaving Boston and leaving Garnett, Pierce, Rivers (personally, maybe not so much bball philosophy wise) and is ambivalent about leaving Rondo. Certainly he's got a difference of opinion with Ainge, but I don't think its a backstabbing drama type grude as evidenced by Ray's "I will miss not taking Doc and Danny's money on the golf course" comment. Ray Allen made a business decision based on where he thinks he will be able to play his most effective basketball for the next three years and so did Danny Ainge in wanting KG and Jason Terry more (smart moves by all), who knows if all these decisions will prove correct. I think Ray has a better chance of on the court success in Miami versus anywhere else, but there are risks.

And the upside is that as UConn fans we can jump on the bandwagon and root for the greatest player in basketball today - at least until Durant takes the mantle in 2013 or 14 or ...?

 

[upstater]

I don't understand the point he was making, if those were his words, about the Celtics offer.

He was waiting for the Celts to pony up more cash, and when they didn't, he took much less cash than what the Celtics had ponied up.

Maybe I can't see the logic, but there had to be other reasons than money.

 

[Deadrody]

I don't understand the point he was making, if those were his words, about the Celtics offer.

He was waiting for the Celts to pony up more cash, and when they didn't, he took much less cash than what the Celtics had ponied up.

Maybe I can't see the logic, but there had to be other reasons than money.

He was looking for the same 3 years as the Heat. Not more money. He probably would have taken less money over 3 years, since he did with the Heat, but who knows. Celtics were unwilling to go to 3 years, its that simple

 

[Dogdeacon]

He was looking for the same 3 years as the Heat. Not more money. He probably would have taken less money over 3 years, since he did with the Heat, but who knows. Celtics were unwilling to go to 3 years, its that simple

Yep, 3 years also represented the same commitment and importance they placed on Kevin Garnett and his arguably more aged body. Ray implicitly understood that when the Celtics didn't also offer him three years its because he wasn't as important (and justifiably so from a Celtics perspective) as Garnett and he didn't want to stay in Boston in an ever reducing role.

 

[Waquoit]

Why would you want to stay in a place where the PG won't pass you the ball when you are open?

 

[caw]

Why would you want to stay in a place where the PG won't pass you the ball when you are open?

Rondo is a fantastic PG, but he froze Allen out quite a few times. Sometimes it was the correct play, sometimes not. I love reading some Boston homer's saying Allen should listen to Rondo because he is some sort of basketball genius. If Rondo was such a genius he would have learned to shoot from further than 15 feet when he has one of the greatest shooters ever on his team for 5 years.

 

[upstater]

He was looking for the same 3 years as the Heat. Not more money. He probably would have taken less money over 3 years, since he did with the Heat, but who knows. Celtics were unwilling to go to 3 years, its that simple

3 years at 9 million (Heat) versus 2 years at 12 million (Celtics).

What am I not understanding here?

 

[upstater]

Yep, 3 years also represented the same commitment and importance they placed on Kevin Garnett and his arguably more aged body. Ray implicitly understood that when the Celtics didn't also offer him three years its because he wasn't as important (and justifiably so from a Celtics perspective) as Garnett and he didn't want to stay in Boston in an ever reducing role.

This makes absolutely no sense when you look at the money.

Money is a lot more relevant than years.

 

[Dogdeacon]

This makes absolutely no sense when you look at the money.

Money is a lot more relevant than years.

Don't know how many more times or ways I can write it was not about the money. If it was he talks to a lot more teams or obviously just signs with the Celtics. He's already made enough money so that was simply item #3 or 4 at best on his list of important things.* He took as much as the Heat had to give but its not as if he told them to pay him only 3 x $3M because that really sticks it to the Celtics and their fans. I don't know if 3 years mattered to him (maybe that's exactly how long he wants to play) but what did matter is being used heavily in a team's offense and if his current skillset fit with that use.

Look at it this way, some people choose careers and jobs that pay less because the work is more important and fulfilling. Or a retiring CEO might be offered a cushy stipend to stay with a company in a diminished advisory role, but instead decide to pursue a risky venture with a startup because he or she is thrives on the action. Ray Allen wants more action and decided he'd get it with the Heat.



* Total conjecture
1. Importance of role on team going forward
2. FIT of Ray's skillset and that role particularly as time marches on
3. Odds of winning NBA championship
4. Term
5. Money

 

[FfldCntyFan]

3 years at 9 million (Heat) versus 2 years at 12 million (Celtics).

What am I not understanding here?

My guess is that all of the details to the Celtics' offer to Ray were never disclosed and it never was as simple as $12mm for two years.

Their front office made it clear months ago that they didn't have any desire to bring Ray back and the only time anything became public that they would was after it became apparent he was going to sign with the Heat. The offer was merely so they could tell their fans that they tried to keep Ray but he refused. They had no intentions of offering him something he would have accepted.

 

[upstater]

Don't know how many more times or ways I can write it was not about the money. If it was he talks to a lot more teams or obviously just signs with the Celtics. He's already made enough money so that was simply item #3 or 4 at best on his list of important things.* He took as much as the Heat had to give but its not as if he told them to pay him only 3 x $3M because that really sticks it to the Celtics and their fans. I don't know if 3 years mattered to him (maybe that's exactly how long he wants to play) but what did matter is being used heavily in a team's offense and if his current skillset fit with that use.

Look at it this way, some people choose careers and jobs that pay less because the work is more important and fulfilling. Or a retiring CEO might be offered a cushy stipend to stay with a company in a diminished advisory role, but instead decide to pursue a risky venture with a startup because he or she is thrives on the action. Ray Allen wants more action and decided he'd get it with the Heat.



* Total conjecture
1. Importance of role on team going forward
2. FIT of Ray's skillset and that role particularly as time marches on
3. Odds of winning NBA championship
4. Term
5. Money

I said the same thing. I wrote that point #1 in the original post I responded to made no sense because he took less money from the Heat, so his decision was not about money.

I don't understand your point #4 frankly since term is irrelevant. The Celtics could have offered him $12 million over 3 years. How would that have made any difference whatsoever?

So, it also wasn't about years either, if you look at the money. After all, the Heat can cut him still and it would cost less to them than the Celtics not resigning him after year 2.

 

[caw]

This makes absolutely no sense when you look at the money.

Money is a lot more relevant than years.

There are other aspects that could be considered when it comes to money, esp. endorsements.

Of course, Ray is filthy rich if he invested even at an average rate. I could see Allen retiring before his contract is up anyway, but maybe that 3rd year just meant a commitment to him. It's also a lot easier for his ego to come off the bench behind Wade, than Bradley/Terry.

 

[nomar]

If Rondo was such a genius he would have learned to shoot from further than 15 feet when he has one of the greatest shooters ever on his team for 5 years.

I'm sure this made some sense in your head when you were typing it, but having read it, I can assure you that it does not.

 

[upstater]

There are other aspects that could be considered when it comes to money, esp. endorsements.

Of course, Ray is filthy rich if he invested even at an average rate. I could see Allen retiring before his contract is up anyway, but maybe that 3rd year just meant a commitment to him. It's also a lot easier for his ego to come off the bench behind Wade, than Bradley/Terry.

I still don't understand this point of view at all.

A 3rd year at less money is a LESSER commitment than 2 years at higher money.

Because if the Heat let him go after 2 years, he gets less money than he otherwise would have at Boston.

I feel like I've entered the twilight zone in this thread.

 

[UConn990411]

I feel like I've entered the twilight zone in this thread.

I've given up.

This board isn't rational about anything, so when Ray Allen is involved? Not a chance.

 

[caw]

I'm sure this made some sense in your head when you were typing it, but having read it, I can assure you that it does not.

The point doesn't make sense, or the wording of said point?

 

[Gurleyman]

Simple, really. Maybe Ray decides to retire after one or two more years. Maybe he wants to play a third. Now he has a contract for three years, instead of seeing a two-year deal expire in 2014, wanting to play one more year, and hoping someone offers him a one-year deal at age 39, when he might not get it (or only get it from a bad team wanting him to mentor young whippersnappers). He can now basically go out on his own terms.

That extra year of job security would probably be significant. Maybe not the primary factor, but there's a very good chance that a third year on the deal would be more important than money at this stage of his career.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

 

[nomar]

The point doesn't make sense, or the wording of said point?

You said that Rondo can't be that smart because if he was, he'd have figured out how to shoot the ball better. That doesn't make sense. How good a shooter you are has absolutely nothing to do with IQ -- BBIQ or otherwise.

 

[caw]

I still don't understand this point of view at all.

A 3rd year at less money is a LESSER commitment than 2 years at higher money.

Because if the Heat let him go after 2 years, he gets less money than he otherwise would have at Boston.

I feel like I've entered the twilight zone in this thread.

I don't think the Heat can "let him go", this isn't the NFL. Unless the contract has a team option or isn't fully guaranteed you can't just let a player go (at least without paying him).

The Celtics offered him 12 million over 2 years, Miami 9. The base difference is 12 million. However, keep in mind if Ray establishes residency in Florida then he has no state income tax versus about 5% in Mass or CT. So of the 9 million he keeps about 500K more in Florida. The 3 million will be reduced by agent fees and taxes to about 1.7 million (30% Federal, 10% agent fee, 5% state), making the total difference earned about 1.2 million. Is that worth it if you feel your role will be drastically reduced?

It's not just a monetary commitment but a playing time commitment.

 

[Huskies4ever]

This makes absolutely no sense when you look at the money.

Money is a lot more relevant than years.

Not when you've amassed more than $178,000,000 playing ball.

 

[Dogdeacon]

Simple, really. Maybe Ray decides to retire after one or two more years. Maybe he wants to play a third. Now he has a contract for three years, instead of seeing a two-year deal expire in 2014, wanting to play one more year, and hoping someone offers him a one-year deal at age 39, when he might not get it (or only get it from a bad team wanting him to mentor young whippersnappers). He can now basically go out on his own terms.

That extra year of job security would probably be significant. Maybe not the primary factor, but there's a very good chance that a third year on the deal would be more important than money at this stage of his career.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9930 using Tapatalk

Need to stop thinking of this as economics and a job as well. If someone offered me a guaranteed contract to play a professional sport for 1yr at $10MM or 5yrs at $2MM/per I'd take the 5 years in a nanosecond.

This is why people pay thousands for fantasy camps (
http://www.johncaliparibasketballexperience.com/register
even this odious one), playing sports is fun!

 

[caw]

You said that Rondo can't be that smart because if he was, he'd have figured out how to shoot the ball better. That doesn't make sense. How good a shooter you are has absolutely nothing to do with IQ -- BBIQ or otherwise.

I actually didn't say that he can't be that smart, I said if he was such a genius he would have learned how to shoot from Ray. I implied he wasn't a genius. Realizing you have one of the best shooters ever on your team and asking for help and learning, most certainly is related to IQ/being smart - to use your words.

Either way it's silly for Boston fans to imply Rondo has a higher IQ or BBIQ than Ray.

 

[Waquoit]

This makes absolutely no sense when you look at the money.

Money is a lot more relevant than years.

Perhaps you should reread your Etzioni, teach.

 

[upstater]

Perhaps you should reread your Etzioni, teach.

Since you're so smart, explain.

 

[upstater]

Need to stop thinking of this as economics and a job as well. If someone offered me a guaranteed contract to play a professional sport for 1yr at $10MM or 5yrs at $2MM/per I'd take the 5 years in a nanosecond.

This is why people pay thousands for fantasy camps (
http://www.johncaliparibasketballexperience.com/register
even this odious one), playing sports is fun!

That's not the comparison here at all.

The better comparison would be, 2 yrs. at $12 million, or 3 yrs. at $9 million.

Only one of the two offers yields $12 million.

Thus, the only conclusion one can make, Ray didn't leave because of money.