Rate the 2018 UConn Early Signing Class

[JMick]

Yes, your underlying point was about what it takes in recruiting to turn a program. I was totally on point, just pointing out that programs can be bad and can turn around. Obviously it has to do with getting talent as well as coaching.

Don't put words in my mouth Cohen

 

[cohenzone]

Don't put words in my mouth Cohen

What is your point. I was definitely talking recruiting.

 

[JMick]

What is your point. I was definitely talking recruiting.

My point is that our ceiling isn't high enough to ever pull in high 4* and 5* kids. Our ceiling is probably 1 4* kid every couple years. And we're very far from that ceiling right now. My initial post was pointing out that the type of guys TD would like us to get are those high 4* and 5* recruits, and we'll pretty much never land them. It doesn't mean we can't have good teams.

 

[cohenzone]

My point is that our ceiling isn't high enough to ever pull in high 4* and 5* kids. Our ceiling is probably 1 4* kid every couple years. And we're very far from that ceiling right now. My initial post was pointing out that the type of guys TD would like us to get are those high 4* and 5* recruits, and we'll pretty much never land them. It doesn't mean we can't have good teams.

And my point is, you could easily have said the same for those Northwestern and Duke teams. They were total doormats. For decades. Never say never. But I agree that you can be pretty good and at least competitive without getting a bunch of 4 and 5 stars, to the extent that high school evaluations are reliable.

 

[JMick]

And my point is, you could easily have said the same for those Northwestern and Duke teams. They were total doormats. For decades. Never say never. But I agree that you can be pretty good and at least competitive without getting a bunch of 4 and 5 stars, to the extent that high school evaluations are reliable.

But they don't get those kids that TD is talking about. You're missing the point still

 

[cohenzone]

But they don't get those kids that TD is talking about. You're missing the point still

Who is the “they”?

 

[Chin Diesel]

My sole reason for optimism at this point is RE got a few players with P5 offers despite being a dumpster fire of a team right now in a G5 league.

As others have said, it's incredible UConn can sell anyone on coming to UConn outside of the New England or Northeast area.

 

[JMick]

Who is the “they”?

Duke and Northwestern. Duke has 1 four star. Northwestern has zero.

 

[cohenzone]

Duke and Northwestern. Duke has 1 four star. Northwestern has zero.

And I think we agree that the ranking system is imperfect, but coaching makes a difference one way or the other. ND had a bunch of years loaded with HS stars and were mediocre.

 

[UConnDan97]

Duke and Northwestern. Duke has 1 four star. Northwestern has zero.

The four and five star conversations are maddening on the boneyard because folks think they are everywhere.

Even during our best years, we never got them. We've had four 4 star recruits in our history, and two of them were transfers...

 

[AndOne]

Looking at offers on 247 and Rivals, it's comparable to the last few years. Most of them are probably in the "diamonds in the rough" category. It's going to be tough to be competitive when 80% of the class have no decent FBS offers. Anyone else that signs in February are probably projects and fliers. There are only so many "hidden gems" that apparently only RE knows about.

 

[JMick]

Looking at offers on 247 and Rivals, it's comparable to the last few years. Most of them are probably in the "diamonds in the rough" category. It's going to be tough to be competitive when 80% of the class have no decent FBS offers. Anyone else that signs in February are probably projects and fliers. There are only so many "hidden gems" that apparently only RE knows about.

The hidden gems are fewer and further between with all the tape and camps now. A kid like Been Mason probably doesn't get that much exposure 10 years ago. Scott Lutrus didn't get recruited and the two of them were very similar HS prospects

Still, there are so many football players out there and it's definitely possible for many of them to slip through the cracks. Randy is a good evaluator of talent. I trust him on these kids.

 

[huskymedic]

The four and five star conversations are maddening on the boneyard because folks think they are everywhere

The entire AAC so far has zero 5* commits and only two 4* commits (1 to Cincy from Kentucky and 1 to Houston from metro Houston area) per Rivals and zero 5* and zero 4* according to 247.

 

[Dooley]

John & Zac nailed it with this one paragraph, especially the bolded part below...

"Instead, Edsall seems to be betting heavily that his class is full of his typical "diamond in the rough," but the position coaches who made that strategy work a decade ago are no longer around and the internet isn't very good at keeping secrets."

It's one thing to recruit diamonds in the rough - I completely understand that that is our recruiting sphere now being as awful as we have been in the last few years. But it's quite another thing to develop some of these guys into actual diamonds. We are so goddam cheap paying our football coaches; we don't have Orlando/Moorhead/Hughes etc developing the "rough" into "diamonds" any more. Instead, we now have a cheap staff that, in all honesty, has not shown any ability yet to develop many FBS level players...especially on the defensive side. Could they over time? Sure. I guess it's still kind of early in the long-term rebuild. But there was zero development during the 2018 season - especially defensively - to show otherwise. And that makes it very tough to get excited about anything this staff does on the recruiting trails. Without a FBS level coaching staff, we're handing out scholarships to FCS level kids and just hoping for the best here.

 

[UConnJim]

The hidden gems are fewer and further between with all the tape and camps now. A kid like Been Mason probably doesn't get that much exposure 10 years ago. Scott Lutrus didn't get recruited and the two of them were very similar HS prospects

Still, there are so many football players out there and it's definitely possible for many of them to slip through the cracks. Randy is a good evaluator of talent. I trust him on these kids.

I have a different take on the two players. Lutrus is a great example of the RE recruiting process. The big difference between Ben Mason and Scott Lutrus in high school was physical development. Let's compare the two.

Coming out of high school:

Scott Lutrus 6'1" 196 lbs
Ben Mason 6'2.5" 245 lbs

Later in their careers:

Scott Lutrus as a senior: 6'3" 245 lbs
Ben Mason as a sophomore: 6'3" 254 lbs

A 6'1" 196 lbs high school linebacker from a small high school in the Northeast with OK speed is never going to be highly rated by the recruiting services. But, a 6'2.5" 245 lbs linebacker from the Northeast will get a look and can be a 3* or 4* recruit. P5 schools would never take a LB like Lutrus out of high school.

UConn has to take good athletic football players that aren't fully developed and develop them. That has been and will be where they find most of their best players.

 

[Hornet22]

Uhh that's how football recruiting works. You recruit for skills and potential. The types of kids you're talking about go to Alabama, USC, etc. We're never getting them. Ever.

The players at Alabama and USC get redshirted and take some time to develop as well. Difference there is those schools never have god awful years of recruiting where gaps are created therefore needing to rely on a bunch of freshmen like we have.

 

[Hornet22]

How many 5* recruits do they get? A kid who is big enough, strong enough, fast enough and skilled enough to make an immediate impact as a freshman is typically a high 4* or 5* recruit.

Usually those immediate impact recruits are strategically placed on the field surrounded by a bunch of veterans. That allows them to make plays. It’s extremely rare for a kid coming out of high school to be strong enough and have the aptitude to win one on one matchups at the collegiate level against veterans.
Again, it’s really an anomaly what we faced this year having to start so many freshmen. It’s all relative right- if any SEC team carted a bunch of freshmen out there to play in their league games they would get whooped too. Period.

 

[UConnJim]

The players at Alabama and USC get redshirted and take some time to develop as well. Difference there is those schools never have god awful years of recruiting where gaps are created therefore needing to rely on a bunch of freshmen like we have.

Redshirting is less prevalent at the top schools and it happens if teams have sufficient depth at a position or if there is an injury. For example, Alabama has 30 redshirts out of 116 players on the roster or 26% (includes walk-ons). BC has 51 redshirts out of 104 players on the roster or 49%.

 

[JMick]

I have a different take on the two players. Lutrus is a great example of the RE recruiting process. The big difference between Ben Mason and Scott Lutrus in high school was physical development. Let's compare the two.

Coming out of high school:

Scott Lutrus 6'1" 196 lbs
Ben Mason 6'2.5" 245 lbs

Later in their careers:

Scott Lutrus as a senior: 6'3" 245 lbs
Ben Mason as a sophomore: 6'3" 254 lbs

A 6'1" 196 lbs high school linebacker from a small high school in the Northeast with OK speed is never going to be highly rated by the recruiting services. But, a 6'2.5" 245 lbs linebacker from the Northeast will get a look and can be a 3* or 4* recruit. P5 schools would never take a LB like Lutrus out of high school.

UConn has to take good athletic football players that aren't fully developed and develop them. That has been and will be where they find most of their best players.

Lutrus was bigger than that in HS. That's part of what I'm talking about in regards to exposure. No one was keeping tabs on these kids

 

[Hornet22]

Redshirting is less prevalent at the top schools and it happens if teams have sufficient depth at a position or if there is an injury. For example, Alabama has 30 redshirts out of 116 players on the roster or 26% (includes walk-ons). BC has 51 redshirts out of 104 players on the roster or 49%.

With this new rule about redshirting those numbers will definitely rise. Most freshmen get spot duty and just lose a year of eligibility.

 

[HuskyDogArt]

A great recruiting class, but we won't know until they hit the field...

 

[UConnJim]

Lutrus was bigger than that in HS. That's part of what I'm talking about in regards to exposure. No one was keeping tabs on these kids

Yes, I think by the end of his senior year, he was 210 to 215. As for not being looked at, I pulled up an article that said Maryland, BC, WVU, and Rutgers were interested and that he went to a junior day at Maryland (his coach played with Ralph Friedgen in HS). Other offers were Ivies.

 

[Devland]

Marcus Easley and Donald Thomas were walk-on's who became NFL players. There have been highly rated recruits, such as Dwayne Difton, who didn't contribute much. So who knows?

 

[JMick]

Yes, I think by the end of his senior year, he was 210 to 215. As for not being looked at, I pulled up an article that said Maryland, BC, WVU, and Rutgers were interested and that he went to a junior day at Maryland (his coach played with Ralph Friedgen in HS). Other offers were Ivies.

That may be true. I thought his only offers were UConn and Harvard

 

[HuskyHawk]

I’m happy Randy adjusted his approach. With the experienced guys coming in he realizes he cannot take 5 years to win games. He needs a 4 win season immediately. That can then allow him to recruit a little better. But good players don’t want to come to team that doesn’t look at least competitive.

I think you can sell somebody on the idea that they can help the team jump from 4 wins to bowl eligible. Selling them on the idea that they can improve a team as bad as we were last year? Much harder.

 

[YoungFree]

If you live by rankings, the class is up to #131 in the country.

Of the 4 unrated commitments on 247, at least Winston Jules has a rating on rivals and if the translation is equivalent to our other players, he should be rated between a 78-79 on 247. This could bump us up to #130...still off from last year's #106 class...but 247 doesn't count transfers if I remember right.

 

[Chief00]

John misfired on that one. We did try to recruit people with more offers. The problem is that no one wants to come here. Graded on a curve, this is a good class.

Must be a curve for a class of - I will stop there.

 

[Chief00]

I’m happy Randy adjusted his approach. With the experienced guys coming in he realizes he cannot take 5 years to win games. He needs a 4 win season immediately. That can then allow him to recruit a little better. But good players don’t want to come to team that doesn’t look at least competitive.

I think you can sell somebody on the idea that they can help the team jump from 4 wins to bowl eligible. Selling them on the idea that they can improve a team as bad as we were last year? Much harder.

You can’t really say yet that he’s gone ten toes in on the grad transfer or JUCO route. How many do we have?
The benchmark for teams who successfully do it in the AAC is in the 14-18 on the roster range - we probably have a handful?

 

[weyuo]

They are still ranked dead last in the AAC and in the 130's nation wide. That is not good at all. Unless over half the commits so far are diamonds in the rough(which we won't see for at least two seasons anyways) UConn isn't even treading water. Ranked around #6 in the conference would be treading water.

 

[Chief00]

My point is that our ceiling isn't high enough to ever pull in high 4* and 5* kids. Our ceiling is probably 1 4* kid every couple years. And we're very far from that ceiling right now. My initial post was pointing out that the type of guys TD would like us to get are those high 4* and 5* recruits, and we'll pretty much never land them. It doesn't mean we can't have good teams.

So far our ceiling isn’t good enough to win games or stop anyone at all. We need a huge upgrade just to be competitive. True, one step at a time, but the World has changed since sleepy Storrs in the 1990’s, even Storrs has dramatically changed.