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Rank the Big East

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nelsonmuntz

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As we get close to league play, I wanted to see people's opinions about the league teams. My take:

NCAA Locks:

1) Syracuse - playing like a talented, experienced team. May be Boeheim's deepest squad yet.

2) UConn - playing like a very talented, inexperienced team. Individually fantastic defensively, but too many team defensive lapses. Offense could use some work, especially on getting the ball down low to guys at the right spots, and big man passing needs to improve. We will see a lot of zone this year.

3) Marquette - at year end, Marquette fans are going to wonder 'what if" about this season. Losing Otule hurts, but Williams' game coaching is the bigger problem. Starting 5 is as good as any in the league, and Crowder and Johnson Odom are undefendable, but they lose too many to the LSU's of the world to be a credible BE Champion or Final Four Contender.

4) Louisville - very good team on paper, something is missing. Pitino is good enough to win 11 or 12 in the Big East the way it is this year, and will get a high seed in the Dance, but this is not a great team.

5) Georgetown - I love the way Georgetown plays. They are the best offensive team in the league every single year. They don't have the talent to consistently beat the top teams nationally or in the Big East, but on a given night, are a very tough matchup.

6) Pitt - Same old Pitt, with a little less talent than usual. Gibbs is a really good complementary player that is not really capable of carrying a team deep in March, and they have a couple of starters that would be backups on a typical Pitt team (Taylor, Robinson). Good team though.

HUGE GAP

Bubble:

7) WVU - Kevin Jones is one of the best players in the league, but I hate picking a team this high that starts a bonehead like Truck Bryant or depends on a goofball like Deniz Kilici for major production. Kilici should be a first time all-conference, but he plays with his head up his ass for about half of every game.

NIT:

8) Depaul - Depaul is so close to being a good team. They seem to beat themselves at crunch time, but much of that is youth and will improve with time. Melvin is the real deal, and will have a great career at Depaul if he can stay healthy. Defensively, this team is actually a tough matchup for UConn, but they waste too many possessions on the other end and are probably a year away from an NCAA bid.

9) Seton Hall - Pope is finally breaking out, like he should have 2 years ago. The starting 5 is solid, with Theodore a very respectable player. I did not expect the team to be this improved, and had thought Willard was a mistake, but he is impressing me this year. I think he needs to find at least 1 more guy he can play, because you can't press in Big East play if you are only playing 6 guys. If he can find that guy, SHU could make the Dance.

10) Cincinnati - this team had issues before Gates' cheap shot against Xavier. Cronin's teams chronically underachieve. I think he is too high strung and emotional, but whatever the reason, there is way too much talent on this team to be losing to teams like Marshall and Presbyterian. Wright, Dixon, Gates and Kilpatrick can hold their own against most players, but this team does not have the mental toughness, and seems to go through wretched cold stretches almost every game. I feel like this team will be .500 or worse in league play, which will not warrant an NCAA bid.

11) Providence - Cooley has gotten the team to play smarter, and some defense, but I am not impressed by the 10-2 record compiled against a bunch of cupcakes. Council is a decent player, nothing more, and Cotton has some potential. They should make the NIT, but I don't see them pulling too many upsets. This team needs a major talent upgrade.

gap

No postseason:

12) Villanova - Looks like Lappas' teams after Kittles left. Well coached teams with mediocre talent that are not a threat to do anything in league play. Wayns and Yarou are average/above average players. There is nothing special about anyone on this team, and they will be an afterthought all season.

13) Notre Dame - I am not sure how this team got so bad. Abromaitis was a huge loss, but there is basically no one else on this team that matters at all. I am not sure how that can happen with a major program. Defensively they are not as bad as most Brey teams, but they have no players that can create, making them easy to defend.

14) USF - Gilchrist should be on track to be a high lottery pick by now, and has instead regressed every year. Anderson is a solid junkyard dog, and Poland is average at the 2 (has he been injured?). The rest of the team is not terrible on paper, but Heath is still the coach so they will suck.

15) Rutgers - The revenge of Fred Hill Jr. The upperclassmen suck and the freshmen are freshmen. I like Rice, but this is going to be a long year. You may see an upset or two late.

16) St. Johns - perfect storm of 3 years of lousy Norm Roberts recruiting with a serious illness by Lavin and a bunch of players not getting eligible. Losing Lindsey was the backbreaker though, because I think he is excellent, if obviously incredibly immature even for an 18 year old. You can write-off this season.
 
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Louisville over Marq, and i think WVU will make the tourney.
 
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1. Syracuse
2. Louisville
3. Uconn
4. Pitt
5. Marquette
6. G'town

7. Seton Hall
8. Cincinnati
9. WVU
10. Providence
11. Nova
12. Depaul

the rest (St johns, USF, Rutgers, ND)
 
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My only beef with the OP's ranking is DePaul at 8. Yes they are improved, but they're not in the top half of the league just yet.
 
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DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!
 
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I think that the top seven (switch out WVU for SHU) will be in, and the rest up to 12 will be in "other" tournaments. SJU got some good news that Amir Garrett is eligible for the second half. I still think that USF is the worst team, even after their impressive win over Cleveland State this week.
 

Dann

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1-lville they are top 10ish now, just wait till there guys gets back
2-cuse
3-uconn
4-marq
5-gtown

6-pitt
7-wvu
8-shu

9-16 rest of the BE, non ncaat teams
 

fleudslipcon

We are UConn!! 4>>>1
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1-lville they are top 10ish now, just wait till there guys gets back
2-cuse
3-uconn
4-marq
5-gtown

6-pitt
7-wvu
8-shu

9-16 rest of the BE, non ncaat teams
You should consider putting a Go at the end of your name.:)
 
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1-lville they are top 10ish now, just wait till there guys gets back
2-cuse
3-uconn
4-marq
5-gtown

6-pitt
7-wvu
8-shu

9-16 rest of the BE, non ncaat teams

I sorta agree that UL is number 1 right now as well (I did put Cuse there above . . .). Pitino owns Syracuse and after watching them last night and against Memphis, they just seem like a team that knows how to win.

I don't think they are waiting on anybody though. Marra is out for the year. Van Tresse is a bench player. The only other guy is Blackshear, who will be coming back in a month or so, but I don't think he'll contribute much this year.
 

fleudslipcon

We are UConn!! 4>>>1
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maybe im just slow above the shoulders but what?
You would be HuskyfanDanGo as in Husky fanDanGo. Bad joke but every time I read your name I hear the word fandango as in fandango dance. I'm sure my obscure thinking will not strike another mental synapse in the Boneyard universe other than a is this dude.
 

fleudslipcon

We are UConn!! 4>>>1
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1-lville they are top 10ish now, just wait till there guys gets back
2-cuse
3-uconn
4-marq
5-gtown

6-pitt
7-wvu
8-shu

9-16 rest of the BE, non ncaat teams
On a serious note, what is the timeline of the return for the Louisville players? If they get healthy quickly, I have to agree with you and put them above the Cuse. Also agree with the remainder of your rankings.
 

Dann

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lol ok

i have no clue when lville players are coming back. they press and run for 40, thats what they want to do. anyone coming back no matter starter or bench guy, if they can crack the rotation then thats more depth for a already good team.
 

Mr. Wonderful

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You would be HuskyfanDanGo as in Husky fanDanGo. Bad joke but every time I read your name I hear the word fandango as in fandango dance.

From Wikipedia:
Fandango is one of the main folk dances in Portugal. The choreography is quite simple: on its more frequent setting two male dancers face each other, dancing and tap-dancing one at each time, showing which one has the most lightness and repertoire of feet changes in the tap-dancing. The dancers can be boy and girl, boy and boy (most frequent) or rarely two girls. While one of the dancers dances, the other just "goes along". Afterwards, they "both drag their feet for a while"[cite this quote] until the other one takes his turn. They stay there, disputing, seeing which one of them makes the feet transitions more eye-catching.
It's also the title of an obscure but very funny movie by the same name. If you haven't seen it, it's worth tracking down. Fandango stars a very young Kevin Costner and Judd Nelson. It also will introduce to you one character by the name of Truman Sparks, played with relish by Marvin J. McIntyre.
 

jleves

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From Wikipedia:

It's also the title of an obscure but very funny movie by the same name. If you haven't seen it, it's worth tracking down. Fandango stars a very young Kevin Costner and Judd Nelson. It also will introduce to you one character by the name of Truman Sparks, played with relish by Marvin J. McIntyre.
Great movie - love the skydiving scene. Brings tears to my eyes.
 

fleudslipcon

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From Wikipedia:

It's also the title of an obscure but very funny movie by the same name. If you haven't seen it, it's worth tracking down. Fandango stars a very young Kevin Costner and Judd Nelson. It also will introduce to you one character by the name of Truman Sparks, played with relish by Marvin J. McIntyre.
Thanks for the heads up. BTW any Shakespeare fans might find the movie Anonymous interesting.
 

nelsonmuntz

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Responses:

USF - How do they feel about passing on Huggins to hire Heath? Has Heath ever been successful? He took over a very good Kent team when Waters went to Rutgers, went to the Final 8, and hasn't been successful since. This guy has been stealing money for almost 10 years. What does he have to do to get fired? Gilchrist should sue him for coaching malpractice. If Gilchrist played for Calhoun, Blaney would have him a Top 5-10 pick by now. The guy is a monster, athletic, and has great touch, yet he is averaging 11 and 6. He should be an 18 and 10 player in his sleep. He has gotten worse every year since he was a sophomore.

Louisville - Marra is the only real loss to injury, and he isn't coming back. Comeback wins against Charleston do not impress me. If they beat Kentucky or at least keep it close, I will change my tune. Until then, I think they are very good, but barely top 4 in the Big East and not a real threat for a deep March run.

Seton Hall - Gonzalez was not a bad coach, he was just bats*** crazy. While there seemed to be a spectacular roster flameout every year (didn't one guy get arrested for armed robbery and another get busted going the wrong way on the Garden State?), the guys that stayed behind were good and got better every year. Willard walked into a good situation, which he proceeded to waste last year. I think Gonzalez was a better coach, but there is some talent on this team and they could make a run at a winning record in the BE.

Depaul - this team was a great steal by Ole Miss away from winning that game, and Minnesota needed a big comeback to beat them. Minnesota is a good team. Milwaukee was a fairly bad loss, but there are a lot of bubble teams dragging around worse losses. This team is young and getting better. The one thing about Purnell is that historically his teams always seemed to plateau without reaching their full potential.
 
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Responses:
Louisville - Marra is the only real loss to injury, and he isn't coming back. Comeback wins against Charleston do not impress me. If they beat Kentucky or at least keep it close, I will change my tune. Until then, I think they are very good, but barely top 4 in the Big East and not a real threat for a deep March run.

Louisville has played some pretty decent competition thus far and Charleston is a pretty good team.

Louisville also brings back many parts of its team that finished 4th in the big east last year and beat uconn 2 out of 3

Just trying to be a contrarian here, but uconn gave up a 17 pt lead and lost to UCF. They then needed a huge play by Boatright to force OT against a good but far from great FSU team.

I think UL has been much more stable than uconn thus far and have looked better than every other big east team except Syracuse (a team that UL has beaten like 8 in a row).
 
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As we get close to league play, I wanted to see people's opinions about the league teams. My take:

NCAA Locks:

1) Syracuse - playing like a talented, experienced team. May be Boeheim's deepest squad yet. They have a plethora of really, really good players. Solid Frontcourt, Solid Backcourt, Solid Wings. Still, I don't see the player that will carry them through a rough stretch. That moment will come, and I don't think they are up to the task... Rank 3

2) UConn - playing like a very talented, inexperienced team. Individually fantastic defensively, but too many team defensive lapses. Offense could use some work, especially on getting the ball down low to guys at the right spots, and big man passing needs to improve. We will see a lot of zone this year. I think that we are in the best position to win this league. Talent, Depth, youth, Experience, Upside. Our roles are beginning to become clear, and if we can get some increased Wing production, everything else should fall into place. Rank 1
3) Marquette - at year end, Marquette fans are going to wonder 'what if" about this season. Losing Otule hurts, but Williams' game coaching is the bigger problem. Starting 5 is as good as any in the league, and Crowder and Johnson Odom are undefendable, but they lose too many to the LSU's of the world to be a credible BE Champion or Final Four Contender.I love watching Marquette play. They play 10-15% harder than any other team that they play. This comes at a price, however. They tend to play a bit out of control sometimes and don't always have great composure. Rank 4

4) Louisville - very good team on paper, something is missing. Pitino is good enough to win 11 or 12 in the Big East the way it is this year, and will get a high seed in the Dance, but this is not a great team. It always sucks to play against Louisville, and they are very athletic and skilled. I don't want to praise them any more, or my reverse jinx may not pay off. Rank 2

5) Georgetown - I love the way Georgetown plays. They are the best offensive team in the league every single year. They don't have the talent to consistently beat the top teams nationally or in the Big East, but on a given night, are a very tough matchup. Don't like this team. Clark is good, but their younger players looked just terrible early in the year and i have no confidence that Henry Sims will continue to be a big-time presence. Rank 6

6) Pitt - Same old Pitt, with a little less talent than usual. Gibbs is a really good complementary player that is not really capable of carrying a team deep in March, and they have a couple of starters that would be backups on a typical Pitt team (Taylor, Robinson). Good team though.I will never, ever count a Jamie Dixon team out. But man, they've missed on some of their recruits haven't they? Dante Taylor is not what everyone thought he would become, and now with Khem Birch taking his ugly ass haircut back to Canada, im not sure that this team can turn it around...Rank 7

HUGE GAP

Bubble:

7) WVU - Kevin Jones is one of the best players in the league, but I hate picking a team this high that starts a bonehead like Truck Bryant or depends on a goofball like Deniz Kilici for major production. Kilici should be a first time all-conference, but he plays with his head up his ass for about half of every game. This team is classic Huggy-Bear. gritty, feisty, average skill level. Really like Hinds and KJones from what I've seen, but not going to light the world on fire. Rank: 5

NIT:

8) Depaul - Depaul is so close to being a good team. They seem to beat themselves at crunch time, but much of that is youth and will improve with time. Melvin is the real deal, and will have a great career at Depaul if he can stay healthy. Defensively, this team is actually a tough matchup for UConn, but they waste too many possessions on the other end and are probably a year away from an NCAA bid. Melvin absolutely made the right choice. Feature player, a true junkyard dog. I really enjoy watching him play. The rest of the team, not so much. no tourney

9) Seton Hall - Pope is finally breaking out, like he should have 2 years ago. The starting 5 is solid, with Theodore a very respectable player. I did not expect the team to be this improved, and had thought Willard was a mistake, but he is impressing me this year. I think he needs to find at least 1 more guy he can play, because you can't press in Big East play if you are only playing 6 guys. If he can find that guy, SHU could make the Dance. Seton Hall makes the tourney this year. Veteran big guy, Veteran crafty(LEFTY) point guard, and some nice role players. I think this is the team that jumps from the garbage bottom of the league to surprise. Willard is doing a nice job.

10) Cincinnati - this team had issues before Gates' cheap shot against Xavier. Cronin's teams chronically underachieve. I think he is too high strung and emotional, but whatever the reason, there is way too much talent on this team to be losing to teams like Marshall and Presbyterian. Wright, Dixon, Gates and Kilpatrick can hold their own against most players, but this team does not have the mental toughness, and seems to go through wretched cold stretches almost every game. I feel like this team will be .500 or worse in league play, which will not warrant an NCAA bid.

11) Providence - Cooley has gotten the team to play smarter, and some defense, but I am not impressed by the 10-2 record compiled against a bunch of cupcakes. Council is a decent player, nothing more, and Cotton has some potential. They should make the NIT, but I don't see them pulling too many upsets. This team needs a major talent upgrade.

gap

No postseason:

12) Villanova - Looks like Lappas' teams after Kittles left. Well coached teams with mediocre talent that are not a threat to do anything in league play. Wayns and Yarou are average/above average players. There is nothing special about anyone on this team, and they will be an afterthought all season.Ok here is where I disagree with you bigtime. How can you say Wright teams are well-coached? His players do not develop, he continually runs an offense that is very low by any efficiency metric, and despite what appears to be solid recruiting has not solidified that team as a yearly contender.

13) Notre Dame - I am not sure how this team got so bad. Abromaitis was a huge loss, but there is basically no one else on this team that matters at all. I am not sure how that can happen with a major program. Defensively they are not as bad as most Brey teams, but they have no players that can create, making them easy to defend.

14) USF - Gilchrist should be on track to be a high lottery pick by now, and has instead regressed every year. Anderson is a solid junkyard dog, and Poland is average at the 2 (has he been injured?). The rest of the team is not terrible on paper, but Heath is still the coach so they will suck. Heath is just awful as a coach.

15) Rutgers - The revenge of Fred Hill Jr. The upperclassmen suck and the freshmen are freshmen. I like Rice, but this is going to be a long year. You may see an upset or two late.

16) St. Johns - perfect storm of 3 years of lousy Norm Roberts recruiting with a serious illness by Lavin and a bunch of players not getting eligible. Losing Lindsey was the backbreaker though, because I think he is excellent, if obviously incredibly immature even for an 18 year old. You can write-off this season.
 
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I know it seems to early to do this (and it may look stupid if we look back at this in March), but it seems to me like the NCAA picture for the Big East is relatively clear already:

Teams that realistically have no shot (7): St. John's, Rutgers, South Florida, Providence, DePaul, Villanova, Notre Dame. DePaul and PC have nice OOC records, but they won't win enough Big East games. It's hard to completely write off Nova and Notre Dame this early, but they've dug themselves into such a hole already. The best win between the two teams is Notre Dame's home win against Detroit. Nova has beaten 6 awful teams and lost to the 5 decent teams they've played.

Teams that do have a shot: The remaining nine. Barring unexpected collapses, Syracuse, Uconn, Lousiville, Pitt, Marquette and Georgetown will get in. Seton Hall is in good enough shape where 9-9 should get them in (and they play Rutgers and DePaul twice this year). Cincinnati has a lot of work to do but I don't think they can be written off. Same can be said for West Virginia, who has a couple big games against Missouri State and Baylor before Big East play.

In summation, don't see how we get less than 6 or more than 9.
 
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