Question About Boeheim's Presser

[Scalito]

The stuff about Laurie and Bernie's nightly routine wasn't convincing?

If I could gather from the tape that Davis was a minor at the time, it would be, but I cannot. There is no doubt that Laurie Fine thought Bernie and Davis were sleeping together at some point. But it's my understanding that Davis claimed to have slept with Bernie when he was an adult. In other words, that nightly routine she acknowledged could have been between two consenting adults.

It's ambiguous, and Laurie Fine apparently disputed Davis's version when approached by reporters from the Post Standard. Maybe she lied to protect her family. I just cannot say that with certainty.

 

[Scalito]

She repeatedly mentions he was a child.

She does elsewhere, but never in direct connection to sexual activity.

Look, just to be clear, I think the tape is incriminating. Just not completely. I have heard that a fourth victim may come forward. If that accuser is unconnected to Davis and lacks the credibility problems of the third, I will be sufficiently convinced that Fine should be convicted in the court of public opinion.

 

[upstater]

She does elsewhere, but never in direct connection to sexual activity.

Look, just to be clear, I think tape is somewhat incriminating. Just not completely. I have heard that a fourth victim may come forward. If that accuser is unconnected to Davis and lacks the credibility problems of the third, I will be sufficiently convinced that Fine should be convicted in the court of public opinion.

I've heard he's not very credible or as credible as Davis, but I've also heard other things about the raid on Bernie's house.

I also think she directly refers to Bernie being a pedophile in relation to sexual activities with Davis.

 

[Scalito]

I've heard he's not very credible or as credible as Davis, but I've also heard other things about the raid on Bernie's house.

I also think she directly refers to Bernie being a pedophile in relation to sexual activities with Davis.

If Davis was a victim, I hope the authorities find more evidence to corroborate his claim because there will be jurors like me who might not convict. When I read the transcript, it was obvious that Laurie Fine knows Bernie is gay and hates him for it. Also, there were ongoing money disputes and at least one physical altercation between Bernie and Davis, which would provide Davis with a motive to concoct a false allegation to use as retaliation against a former lover.

I don't think that's what happened, but some parts of his story have been contradicted, so there is room for reasonable doubt.

 

[upstater]

If Davis was a victim, I hope the authorities find more evidence to corroborate his claim because there will be jurors like me who might not convict. When I read the transcript, it was obvious that Laurie Fine knows Bernie is gay and hates him for it. Also, there were ongoing money disputes and at least one physical altercation between Bernie and Davis, which would provide Davis with a motive to concoct a false allegation to use as retaliation against a former lover.

I don't think that's what happened, but some parts of his story have been contradicted, so there is room for reasonable doubt.

There's not enough there for a criminal charge. I never said there was, never mind a conviction. One moment came close, when he mentions the time Laurie saw Bernie molest him through the basement window, and that's exactly the point she clams up. She has thought things through and through.

There is hearsay, and then there is eyewitness testimony.

 

[Scalito]

There's not enough there for a criminal charge. I never said there was, never mind a conviction. One moment came close, when he mentions the time Laurie saw Bernie molest him through the basement window, and that's exactly the point she clams up. She has thought things through and through.

I think we are mostly on the same page concerning the evidence when considered under criminal burdens of proof. But if so, why don't you have more empathy for Boeheim's conduct?

Boeheim didn't have access to the tape we've been debating back in 2005 or even when he called Davis a liar. All he knew is that his friend and colleague of forty years was being accused of a crime that a law firm had found lacked credibility, which was based on factual assertions he himself disputed (e.g., that he allegedly saw Davis in Fine's hotel beds). Unless you assume Boeheim is the liar, he had personal and emotional reasons to think the worst of Davis and Lang. Those reasons very well still could be correct. Regardless, I'd give the guy a break. If you accused one of my good or longstanding friends under the same circumstances, I'd probably do the same exact thing. Who do you believe, a friend or someone you have reason to believe is a liar?

 

[upstater]

I think we are mostly on the same page concerning the evidence when considered under criminal burdens of proof. But if so, why don't you have more empathy for Boeheim's conduct?

Boeheim didn't have access to the tape we've been debating back in 2005 or even when he called Davis a liar. All he knew is that his friend and colleague of forty years was being accused of a crime that a law firm had found lacked credibility, which was based on factual assertions he himself disputed (e.g., that he allegedly saw Davis in Fine's hotel beds). Unless you assume Boeheim is the liar, he had personal and emotional reasons to think the worst of Davis and Lang. Those reasons very well still could be correct. Regardless, I'd give the guy a break. If you accused one of my good or longstanding friends under the same circumstances, I'd probably do the same exact thing. Who do you believe, a friend or someone you have reason to believe is a liar?

I think Boeheim is right when he said he showed loyalty to a friend. That's what friends are supposed to do.

Unfortunately, Boeheim is also a high profile employee of Syracuse U., and the angry way that he attacked the victim as a liar reflects very badly on the university. He's a coach, but he's also at an educational institution, and there of all places you don't go off half-cocked. It hurts all victims, not just Davis.

That's not even what gets me. That much is forgivable. What bugs me about both Boeheim and Paterno is the way they establish plausible deniability. That's why I don't have empathy. First he tells us he never took interest in the initial investigation in 2005 to ask what it was about, and then we learn that he is not showing enough interest in Davis's side to actually listen to the tape. The only difference between he and Paterno on that score is that Paterno's Sgt. Schultz routing resulted in more kids being abused. That's a very significant difference, but the original problem is the same. Both try to create a wall of ignorance around them. So when people tell me Boeheim didn't know, I say he is doing a really good job of making sure he doesn't know.

Ultimately, too many people are putting emphasis on Boeheim's friendship with Fine, and very little emphasis on their professional relationship. When something of this magnitude drops on you, child molestation, you need to be able to separate the two.

 

[ctchamps]

I think Boeheim is right when he said he showed loyalty to a friend. That's what friends are supposed to do.

Unfortunately, Boeheim is also a high profile employee of Syracuse U., and the angry way that he attacked the victim as a liar reflects very badly on the university. He's a coach, but he's also at an educational institution, and there of all places you don't go off half-cocked. It hurts all victims, not just Davis.

That's not even what gets me. That much is forgivable. What bugs me about both Boeheim and Paterno is the way they establish plausible deniability. That's why I don't have empathy. First he tells us he never took interest in the initial investigation in 2005 to ask what it was about, and then we learn that he is not showing enough interest in Davis's side to actually listen to the tape. The only difference between he and Paterno on that score is that Paterno's Sgt. Schultz routing resulted in more kids being abused. That's a very significant difference, but the original problem is the same. Both try to create a wall of ignorance around them. So when people tell me Boeheim didn't know, I say he is doing a really good job of making sure he doesn't know.

Ultimately, too many people are putting emphasis on Boeheim's friendship with Fine, and very little emphasis on their professional relationship. When something of this magnitude drops on you, child molestation, you need to be able to separate the two.

You may want to edit your last paragraph.

 

[Scalito]

I think Boeheim is right when he said he showed loyalty to a friend. That's what friends are supposed to do.

Unfortunately, Boeheim is also a high profile employee of Syracuse U., and the angry way that he attacked the victim as a liar reflects very badly on the university. He's a coach, but he's also at an educational institution, and there of all places you don't go off half-cocked. It hurts all victims, not just Davis.

That's not even what gets me. That much is forgivable. What bugs me about both Boeheim and Paterno is the way they establish plausible deniability. That's why I don't have empathy. First he tells us he never took interest in the initial investigation in 2005 to ask what it was about, and then we learn that he is not showing enough interest in Davis's side to actually listen to the tape. The only difference between he and Paterno on that score is that Paterno's Sgt. Schultz routing resulted in more kids being abused. That's a very significant difference, but the original problem is the same. Both try to create a wall of ignorance around them. So when people tell me Boeheim didn't know, I say he is doing a really good job of making sure he doesn't know.

Ultimately, too many people are putting emphasis on Boeheim's friendship with Fine, and very little emphasis on their professional relationship. When something of this magnitude drops on you, child molestation, you need to be able to separate the two.

I think Paterno's obituary's first, middle, and last sentence should mention Victim Nos. 1-8. However, Paterno's failure shouldn't be compared to Boeheim's conduct. It's less than fair.

 

[upstater]

I think Paterno's obituary's first, middle, and last sentence should mention Victim Nos. 1-8. However, Paterno's failure shouldn't be compared to Boeheim's conduct. It's less than fair.

Fair? You have 6 of the victims prior to 2002 in his obituary.

 

[huskyharry]

Jimbo Gotta Go. What he did was inexcusable. As I've been told, most child abuse victims are afraid to come forward because they fear people will not believe their accusations. Which is exactly what JB did. But he took it even further, publicly calling him a liar and out for the money. As Pat Forde mentions JB kept saying “we have to wait” until the investigation plays out. Well, JB did not wait when he made his statement about the accusers. And how can people think his apology to the victims is sincere? He released that statement that the school or his attorney probably wrote for him. Did you hear him express and sympathy for the victims during the press conference? Or remorse for what he said last week? NO. Instead JB went out and said how he was proud he supported his friend. JB was wrong and clearly does not understand how serious this situation is.

Right on target!

 

[huskyharry]

Then why did he come out with a statement which was a complete reversal of his previous statement, the same day when the audio tape came out?

Obviously, because the Syracuse administration and lawyers told him that he had too!

 

[Edward Sargent]

Unfortunately his opening line probably set the tone for the rest of the interview. Bad choice and certainly not part of the "script" that was prepared for him. Terrible job from a faculty member from one of the top communications schools in the country.

 

[freescooter]

And nowhere in the job description for college basketball coach does it say anything about "creating an atmosphere where victims of child abuse feel free to come forward", nor does it even include any reference to being some kind of humanitarian. These ancillary charges are not going to get Boeheim fired, nor should they.

It is not in the definition of a basketball coach. It is in the definition of decent human being. It is pretty obvious that Boeheim was running a crap program with absolutely no off court control whatsover. I think he is going to get fired if he doesn't resign, but even if he does survive this year I doubt anyone will hold him or his program in anything like the regard it has been anymore.