Quesion re: turnovers | The Boneyard

Quesion re: turnovers

Status
Not open for further replies.

babysheep

Rocky
Joined
Aug 31, 2011
Messages
2,062
Reaction Score
589
In ESPN's box score they seem to credit the passer with a turn over no matter what. I ask because it seemed like Olander had a terrible game today, but the box score indicates that he only had 3 tunrovers while Bazz had 6. I'm pretty sure those 6 weren't all his fault, and I know he didn't account for a total of 7 of our 11 turnovers against UCF.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
909
Reaction Score
329
Not to pile on Olander, but today showed his limitations - as of right now, he is still a relatively slow moving guy with so-so hands.
Against an athletic, quick FSU team he looked awful.
I expect that he'll be much like D Bev - against slower competition, he will look great. Against teams like FSU and Syracuse, he will look slow and ham handed.
Love him and his effort, but he's not very athletic, and today it showed.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,905
Reaction Score
8,983
The official turnover is a judgment call - if a pass goes through a player's hands, it can be given to the receiver. But the two plays when Napier tried to get the ball to Drummond late would both be Napier's turnovers since Drummond didn't have a good chance to catch them. An offensive foul is also a turnover, so Napier had two turnovers against UCF on charges, and then he had three turnovers in the first two minutes of the second half all in a short sequence (a bad pass in traffic, a no-look bounce pass in the lane to where he was hoping Alex would be, and a hit-ahead pass that went out of bounds).
 
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
2,631
Reaction Score
1,942
Not to pile on Olander, but today showed his limitations - as of right now, he is still a relatively slow moving guy with so-so hands.
Against an athletic, quick FSU team he looked awful.
I expect that he'll be much like D Bev - against slower competition, he will look great. Against teams like FSU and Syracuse, he will look slow and ham handed.
Love him and his effort, but he's not very athletic, and today it showed.
Tyler's level of athleticism was not his problem yesterday. It was his poor shooting, which had been solid most of the season, and his carelessness with the ball mainly due to slow decision making. Against a quick closing team like FSU, you have to be quick with the ball. Tyler was not. He just had a bad game. I think he'll be fine and will get back on track as early as the next game.
 
Joined
Aug 25, 2011
Messages
15,851
Reaction Score
22,473
Tyler's level of athleticism was not his problem yesterday. It was his poor shooting, which had been solid most of the season, and his carelessness with the ball mainly due to slow decision making. Against a quick closing team like FSU, you have to be quick with the ball. Tyler was not. He just had a bad game. I think he'll be fine and will get back on track as early as the next game.
Had Tyler made those shots people would be posting differently. He is a good collegiate player who is only a sophomore. He is a good teammate and I really don't think he had a 'bad' game. He just couldn't make those damn shots. I like him he has a nose for the ball and he is not intimidated by any means. I hope people give him time because he will be a good one. He needs more confidence.
 

willie99

Loving life & enjoying the ride, despite the bumps
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
5,393
Reaction Score
6,428
Tyler played poorly, but he'll be fine

having said that, JC gave him a lot of minutes. Either he's sending a message to AO & RS, or he liked something TO was doing (IDK)
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
909
Reaction Score
329
It's like saying . . . had Butler only made those open shots, people would be . . .

The problem with that logic, IMO, is that it's being argued in a vacuum.
Olander wasn't playing in a vacuum. He was playing against 6/8+ guys who close fast and jump high.
I suppose I'd have to go back and take a look at each shot - if there was no defender on him or near him, then you're dead right. He hits 3 or so of the missed ones and he had a decent game. But if there's a defender within a step, that affects the shot, whether or not the defender gets a block.
Even with made shots, I'm going to venture that we're going to see more RS and DD and AO against the more athletic competition. Olander got blocked on a shot that he had zero chance of getting to the rim. He went into his usual baby hook lefty spin move, but instead of shooting it over a 6/6 scrub from Old Glory, he's getting it monster stuffed by a 6/8 guy from a top 20 school.
I his effort and game, but I imagine JC will use him against targeted competition, and not just everybody.

BTW - even if there is not a defender around, the fact that you're in a game with superior defenders changes every shot, as, when you do get that wide open look, there's more pressure to hit it, because you know you won't be getting many more uncontested shots - just my experience. I suppose the purest of the pure shooters may not feel that pressure.
 
Joined
Aug 28, 2011
Messages
1,510
Reaction Score
2,393
IIRC most of the missed shots were very open looks from 15-17 feet. I think he would normally make at least half of those. He had a bad shooting game, it happens. He needs to keep taking those shots when they present themselves.
 
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
31,180
Reaction Score
42,599
It's like saying . . . had Butler only made those open shots, people would be . . .

The problem with that logic, IMO, is that it's being argued in a vacuum.
Olander wasn't playing in a vacuum. He was playing against 6/8+ guys who close fast and jump high.
I suppose I'd have to go back and take a look at each shot - if there was no defender on him or near him, then you're dead right. He hits 3 or so of the missed ones and he had a decent game. But if there's a defender within a step, that affects the shot, whether or not the defender gets a block.
Even with made shots, I'm going to venture that we're going to see more RS and DD and AO against the more athletic competition. Olander got blocked on a shot that he had zero chance of getting to the rim. He went into his usual baby hook lefty spin move, but instead of shooting it over a 6/6 scrub from Old Glory, he's getting it monster stuffed by a 6/8 guy from a top 20 school.
I his effort and game, but I imagine JC will use him against targeted competition, and not just everybody.

BTW - even if there is not a defender around, the fact that you're in a game with superior defenders changes every shot, as, when you do get that wide open look, there's more pressure to hit it, because you know you won't be getting many more uncontested shots - just my experience. I suppose the purest of the pure shooters may not feel that pressure.

Tyler had 90% open looks which he normally makes 50% of - he didn't shoot well because they didn't go in not because of the FSU defenders. Having said that I thought he looked noticably slow vs their players in both rebounding and defending the paint. He is a solid contributor who needs to make those shots to get his minutes but also needs to get back to the basics. Trying to block too many shots instead of hand in the face and then butt up against shooter to box out. For now he thinks he can jump and block shots and that takes away from his toughness. Fundamentals Tyler please..........you'll be fine!
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2011
Messages
909
Reaction Score
329
You're right he will be fine - too highly motivated not to succeed.
 

Dogbreath2U

RIP, DB2U
Joined
Aug 24, 2011
Messages
3,504
Reaction Score
3,381
Tyler had 90% open looks which he normally makes 50% of - he didn't shoot well because they didn't go in not because of the FSU defenders. Having said that I thought he looked noticably slow vs their players in both rebounding and defending the paint. He is a solid contributor who needs to make those shots to get his minutes but also needs to get back to the basics. Trying to block too many shots instead of hand in the face and then butt up against shooter to box out. For now he thinks he can jump and block shots and that takes away from his toughness. Fundamentals Tyler please..........you'll be fine!

Agree.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Online statistics

Members online
311
Guests online
892
Total visitors
1,203

Forum statistics

Threads
168,874
Messages
4,151,380
Members
9,051
Latest member
Newfull19


Top Bottom