Push the Ball?

[Chief00]

One thing that will be interesting is that KO likes to push the ball as plan A, plan B and even C. Gibbs is more like Bazz than Kemba in terms of pushing the ball. Both were great and successful players but Bazz had more the half court vs. push mentality that Kemba had. In contrast, Adams is more of a push guy but is more of a combo vs pure point guard. It will be interesting how this all plays out.

 

[Matrim55]

You need to be a great defensive rebounding team in order to push the ball. Talking about the mentality of the guards as opposed to the fundamentals of the big men is putting the cart before the horse.

Quite frankly, I'd have expected that kind of mistake from a novice, not an expert who's so well-versed in the minutiae of the game.

 

[HuskiesAllDay]

You need to be a great defensive rebounding team in order to push the ball. Talking about the mentality of the guards as opposed to the fundamentals of the big men is putting the cart before the horse.

Quite frankly, I'd have expected that kind of mistake from a novice, not an expert who's so well-versed in the minutiae of the game.

BOOOOM. Chief just got Gary McGhee'd!!

 

[superjohn]

You need to be a great defensive rebounding team in order to push the ball. Talking about the mentality of the guards as opposed to the fundamentals of the big men is putting the cart before the horse.

Quite frankly, I'd have expected that kind of mistake from a novice, not an expert who's so well-versed in the minutiae of the game.

That was kind of mean-spirited, no smokin' hot b**ches for you.

 

[CTBasketball]

Yeah it depends on how well we rebound the basketball. If Brimah does his usual thing, we'll be playing from the half court more often than not.

 

[James]

eh, you can still get up the court and initiate offense at a fast pace off an INBOUNDS. see steve kerrs coaching, its a fast break / semi transition opportunity all the time. last year, towards the end it seems the game plan was to slow pace kill clock and focus on execution.

 

[superjohn]

Not too worried about rebounding. Brimah should be improved, Miller is a stud rebounder and Hamilton is a great rebounder from his postion.

 

[Chief00]

Quite frankly, you must be Nuevo MBB UConn fans - which as I said previously is great - the trade-off though is a long learning curve.

So where do we start - First, what you got right - of course good defensive rebounding can start a fast break off a prompt outlet pass. Recently, I analyze Jeff Adrien, a player who I liked overall, for sometimes wanting a super model photo shoot after a rebound thus delaying the break - so I get that. In 2012, we had two excellent defensive rebounders, but we did not have the running mentality. Maybe due to Bazz not naturally being a push guy and others not fulling the lanes and quickly transitioning from defense to offense. I think JC's suspensions and medical issues that season hurt since George was more comfortable than Calhoun with a slower pace. In short, the team never developed a running mindset.
When UConn had great running teams we tried to run on almost every possession including made field goals and foul shots. The Celtics during the 60's and 70's were famous for that and Calhoun took so many things from Arnold Auerbach.
A good running team has different options off the break including trailers - who might hit a 3 or a foul line jump shot after the defense collapses to protect the rim. So a true fast breaking team may be more than just lay-ups.

I could go on but that's a start .

 

[Matrim55]

Quite frankly, you must be Nuevo MBB UConn fans - which as I said previously is great - the trade-off though is a long learning curve.

Or, in your case, one that bends backwards.

If you need to rebound with all 5 guys, you can't run. We tried to run in the first two months of the 2013/14 season, got killed on the boards, and KO said "fk it, Shabazz and Boat need to get in their and grab some rebounds, too."

And so we rebounded with 5 and became a halfcourt team.

 

[mauconnfan]

Brimah can improve rebounding and still not help the pace. He needs to be able to do more than hand it off too. Have to see our outlet passing capability with Miller and maybe even Enoch because neither Facey or AB are that good there.

But as James mentioned you can still get out and go, put pressure on the defense. Hamilton does that himself sometime, Rodney sticking his nose in a bit more will help too. This team will "run" but rebounding the ball will be the measure of how much they do. If they improve rebounding as they should they could create some havoc with all the weapons.

 

[OkaForPrez]

Too lazy to look it up but I think we've finished the last two seasons in the bottom third of CBB in pace.

 

[Rocktheworld]

I think with a year-older DHam and Miller, we will have many opportunities to run. And I think we have some of the best guards in the country with which to run.

 

[James]

Rapidly getting into some sort of action increases your offensive efficiency and this is pretty obvious . It's not 100% about rebounds at all, it's about players having good transition ball handling /vision/motor. Purvis was not apt for this he is not a good passer , hamilton WAS good at it until KO told him stop pushing the ball and find boatright ( kind of right due to terrible turnover problem . But for his development he should have more). Boatright and Napier at uconn were not the kind of pgs to push push the ball ahead , high usage % , ball dominant and rightfully so.

 

[Rocktheworld]

Rapidly getting into some sort of action increases your offensive efficiency and this is pretty obvious . It's not 100% about rebounds at all, it's about players having good transition ball handling /vision/motor. Purvis was not apt for this he is not a good passer , hamilton WAS good at it until KO told him stop pushing the ball and find boatright ( kind of right due to terrible turnover problem . But for his development he should have more). Boatright and Napier at uconn were not the kind of pgs to push push the ball ahead , high usage % , ball dominant and rightfully so.

Great ball handling/vision/motor means nothing if the bigs aren't grabbing defensive rebounds at a good rate.

 

[James]

Great ball handling/vision/motor means nothing if the bigs aren't grabbing defensive rebounds at a good rate.

Uh. you can get semi transition opportunities off made shots of opponent. Pace isn't set by who cleans the glass, its whose decisively skipping the ball ahead, and not overthinking your moves on the catch (purvis was the icon for thinking too hard on a catch). Think about it like this, why is it important in the nba to put pressure on the pg bring the ball up? It wears them out and doesn't allow them to get into action with good clock left. The opposite was going down this past year, and even the title team. Boat towards the end of the year was legit killing clock as strategy vs zones and pounding the ball. napier did the same but he had more skilled players around him so execution was easier.

 

[Chief00]

You need some of both, and therefore I believe you are both correct. James seems to be saying that you need players with fullcourt vision. With my with my 13/14 year olds players I called this "trans-vision" (transition-vision, also known at that age as, "DRIBBLE WITH YOUR HEAD UP! WE DRILLED THIS!"). I used to make the kids watch soccer counter-attacks to pound this home since playing in transition is about surveying larger court areas like soccer players are constantly doing. This is important, obviously, because a defensive rebound on a team where nobody can attack in transition means the rebound was useless in pushing pace. On the other hand, if you can't secure the rebound there is less of a chance to run at all.

But James's first sentence is correct: A focus on getting into offense quickly can make up for the slow pace that comes naturally as a by-product of gang-rebounding/not leaking out. That's the balance I think KO is looking for eventually.

Sorry don't mean to offend but learning basketball from soccer is something I have not seen much. I have found kids that have soccer mom type parents to be the most pain in the neck to coach. Expecting a trophy for contributing nothing etc. I much prefer the players with zero soccer background.

As for Ollie he definitely wants to run - the only reason he did not at times is personnel - he says he is trying to get guys who have that mindset. I agree running starts with defense and rebounding but there is so much more to it after that - and just because a team rebounds and plays defense doesn't mean they will run. Some day I will break down the fast break for those new to the game.
Anyone who has watched a Calhoun practice will tell you time was spent on breaking with the ball seldom touching the floor. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree with KO.

 

[Stainmaster]

Sorry don't mean to offend but learning basketball from soccer is something I have not seen much. I have found kids that have soccer mom type parents to be the most pain in the neck to coach. Expecting a trophy for contributing nothing etc. I much prefer the players with zero soccer background.

Come on Chief, I would've expected someone with your vast sporting knowledge to be able to differentiate between soccer strategies that can relate to basketball and sociocultural phenomena such as "soccer moms" and participation trophies. Please improve your reading comprehension for next time!

 

[James]

ty lawson played soccer at oak hill to increase his speed and overall athleticism. think bazz worked out with the uconn squad but lawsons early play at pretty high level soccer hs clearly elevated his game ( he was already near blue chip). this has nothing to do with the thread but yeah. random fact.

 

[James]

damn i really can't hate on chief here. its really the WING and GUARD personnel that truly produces quick hitting action/scoring at an overall higher pace. Posters on this board speak of brimah as if he is some sort of ailment, its hilarious. how many times has he blocked shots into play action and a guard just stopped and started dribbling up court to run set, too mechanical. can't be passive, can't be reckless.

 

[tennmike]

This is the kind of topic that makes basketball so interesting. Even when you have players with the inclination, physical makeup, and skill to run, there are other factors. Rebounds* are certainly key, but even when you rebound, positioning and good outlet passes are critical. Our positioning recently has been compromised by the overall poor rebounding of our bigs. Even when our front court players did rebound, my recollection is Bazz and Boat circling back to get the ball. Our front court have been poor outlet passers...hence KO may have aborted the running approach.

If Hamilton collected a rebound and saw a lane, he was gone. Purvis likes to get up a full head of steam. Boat seemed like he wanted to go and Bazz loved to throw the bomb down court.

*There are some that will say that we used to run off of made shots. While we feasted on this for a number of years, I think that to a large extent, opposing coaches know this about us and prepare for it.

 

[Chief00]

Come on Chief, I would've expected someone with your vast sporting knowledge to be able to differentiate between soccer strategies that can relate to basketball and sociocultural phenomena such as "soccer moms" and participation trophies. Please improve your reading comprehension for next time!

Maybe I am throwing the baby out with the bath water - but I have never personally seen soccer being a plus for basketball - maybe theoretically but not in fact. Also don't underestimate the cultural baggage that goes with soccer in the USA. There are too many kids in youth soccer who apparently just aimlessly run around for X minutes a game with no expectation of production or contribution to the game. In basketball that kills the team. Ok here comes the incoming fire from the soccer Moms and Dads.
If you need conditioning workout or run cross country.

 

[mauconnfan]

Also important to running is the ability to make the "long pass" like Sheffer did best. Short outlet but quick on the run 60 footer makes the occasional fast break good too. Marcus Williams did it a few times and Bazz a couple but very few had that same ability as Sheffer to throw it to the spot.

 

[Chief00]

Also important to running is the ability to make the "long pass" like Sheffer did best. Short outlet but quick on the run 60 footer makes the occasional fast break good too. Marcus Williams did it a few times and Bazz a couple but very few had that same ability as Sheffer to throw it to the spot.

Agree - Cousy was about as good as I have seen throwing the ball where you should be - Magic was very good at that as well. In UConn pickup the best I saw at that was Jim O'Brien when he was an assistant coach at UConn.

I also agree Marcus Williams was real good looking down court.

 

[Paesano]

Maybe I am throwing the baby out with the bath water - but I have never personally seen soccer being a plus for basketball - maybe theoretically but not in fact. Also don't underestimate the cultural baggage that goes with soccer in the USA. There are too many kids in youth soccer who apparently just aimlessly run around for X minutes a game with no expectation of production or contribution to the game. In basketball that kills the team. Ok here comes the incoming fire from the soccer Moms and Dads.
If you need conditioning workout or run cross country.

It is beyond theory. It is common sense. Distance running and the type of running you do in basketball are different and soccer is closer to basketball, in that regard, than cross country. My son is facing this dilema right now. His first love is basketball. He has recently taken a liking to soccer and has improved rapidly since picking it up a few years ago. The wild card is that he is a gifted mid-distance runner and his track coach is pressuring him to drop soccer and switch to cross country. I am leaving it up to him. His chances of playing a sport in college are greatest with running but soccer is clearly a better crossover sport for basketball.

 

[Chief00]

It is beyond theory. It is common sense. Distance running and the type of running you do in basketball are different and soccer is closer to basketball, in that regard, than cross country. My son is facing this dilema right now. His first love is basketball. He has recently taken a liking to soccer and has improved rapidly since picking it up a few years ago. The wild card is that he is a gifted mid-distance runner and his track coach is pressuring him to drop soccer and switch to cross country. I am leaving it up to him. His chances of playing a sport in college are greatest with running but soccer is clearly a better crossover sport for basketball.

If it's such a great crossover sport to basketball why did Brimah and Thabeat start with nearly zero natural basketball instincts? Part of this very thread is how the guards had to help him rebound. Sorry not buying that!