Pulisic

[Waquoit]

You should see if MLS is hiring, Dan.

 

[UConnDan97]

You should see if MLS is hiring, Dan.

Your point is?

 

[Waquoit]

Your point is?

You really need me to answer that? You just seem to be a passionate advocate for MLS.

 

[UConnDan97]

You really need me to answer that? You just seem to be a passionate advocate for MLS.

Then you've missed the point altogether.

My point is not to be passionate about the MLS. I don't care if it is the MLS, the NASL, the USASL, or whatever acronym you want to put together as a soccer league in this country. But whatever you make, you have to always seek to make it as good a league as you can. Because if you don't; if you don't have a league that pays good salaries and identifies young talent and grows the interest in the game country wide, you'll never succeed in the world stage. Never...

 

[LIuconn]

Of the 13 players who saw the field for Brazil in the 2002 WC win, just two were signed to Brazilian league clubs at the time. The best players from around the world compete for clubs in Europe. Period.

I think we all agree a strong domestic league would be beneficial to the national team and development for our youngsters, but the powers that be don't really want that. A strong domestic league includes promotion-relegation to give opportunities for younger, local players a chance to develop in a professional setting. It wouldn't have a salary cap or silly $ and player distribution rules.

MLS wants no part of that.

Until the owners actually want a strong league or care about how our 'clubs' perform against mexican clubs in the CCL, our domestic league will continue to lag.

 

[UConnDan97]

Of the 13 players who saw the field for Brazil in the 2002 WC win, just two were signed to Brazilian league clubs at the time. The best players from around the world compete for clubs in Europe. Period.

I think we all agree a strong domestic league would be beneficial to the national team and development for our youngsters, but the powers that be don't really want that. A strong domestic league includes promotion-relegation to give opportunities for younger, local players a chance to develop in a professional setting. It wouldn't have a salary cap or silly $ and player distribution rules.

MLS wants no part of that.

Until the owners actually want a strong league or care about how our 'clubs' perform against mexican clubs in the CCL, our domestic league will continue to lag.

Uggh. This is like daycare.

Here are the teams and years that the players had played within Brazil professionally up to 2002 (I won't count years after 2002):

Marcos - Palmeiras, (10 years)
Lucio - Internacional, (3 years)
Edmilson - Sao Paulo, (6 years)
Roque Jr. - Palmeiras, (5 years)
Cafu - Sao Paulo (4 years) and Palmeiras (2 years)
Gilberto Silva - America Mineiro / Atletico Mineiro (5 years)
Kleberson - Paranaense (3 years)
Roberto Carlos - Sao Joao / Pameiras (4 years)
Ronaldinho - Gremio (3 years)
Rivaldo - Santa Cruz (Br.) / Mogi Mirim / Corinthians / Pameiras (5 years)
Ronaldo - Cruzeiro (1 year)
Juninho - Sao Paulo / Vasco da Gama (4 years)
Denilson - Sao Paulo (4 years)

With the exception Ronaldo, they all spent multiple years in the Brazilian first division. Whatever. You can believe what you want at this point. I'll try to stick with what we agree on.

What I think we agree on:

1) There absolutely should be a promotion / relegation system in our soccer league, and I think that it is detrimental to us that we don't have one. That is driven by owners primarily, who don't want any risk attached to their multi-million dollar investments.
2) I think the salary cap is silly and I think that the "designated player" concept is ridiculous. I would rather have 2 or 3 extremely strong soccer teams than the glut of mediocrity that we currently have.
3) I also agree that we should take the CONCACAF Champions League more seriously, since I think it helps to convince quality Latin American players to play here instead of LigaMX.
4) I also think that there should be one table, not two divisions. You play every team twice. Top teams to to CONCACAF Champions League. Bottom teams go to the second division (see #1).
5) I think expansion needs to stop at this point. Too many teams equals a watered down product.
6) I would not allow soccer fields that don't conform to normal dimensions and standards just so that I can play in an already made arena (i.e. NYCFC in Yankee Stadium). It's like watching people play pickup at the park. It's silly.

Do I think MLS is great? No I don't. There's actually a hell of a lot of things that I would fix in it if I were running it. But that doesn't mean that I think the league is unimportant. I think it needs to be fixed so that the USA can ultimately succeed on the world stage...

 

[BlueMAB]

Setting aside Bradley was opportunistic and made a smart play, I don't view his goal as flukey or even fluky. To Bradley's credit, he made a good decision and executed well.

Agreed.

Bradley read the pass, had the presence to look up and check the keeper, and then chip the ball in a pretty narrow window. Ochoa was nearly to the six when the ball went over him and under the bar.

In two touches the ball went from midfield to the back of the net. That was an amazing play technically, even without considering were at Azteca and desperately needing a result.

@UConnDan97 - FWIW I agree 100%.

 

[ZooCougar]

I'll go even further than that. I want someone to name for me a country that has won the World Cup since 1950 without a strong domestic soccer league. Go ahead. I'll wait...

People can moan all they want about the MLS, but the truth is this; until the MLS is a top flight soccer league, we will not win the World Cup. Period.

False.

 

[ZooCougar]

Uggh. This is like daycare.

Here are the teams and years that the players had played within Brazil professionally up to 2002 (I won't count years after 2002):

Marcos - Palmeiras, (10 years)
Lucio - Internacional, (3 years)
Edmilson - Sao Paulo, (6 years)
Roque Jr. - Palmeiras, (5 years)
Cafu - Sao Paulo (4 years) and Palmeiras (2 years)
Gilberto Silva - America Mineiro / Atletico Mineiro (5 years)
Kleberson - Paranaense (3 years)
Roberto Carlos - Sao Joao / Pameiras (4 years)
Ronaldinho - Gremio (3 years)
Rivaldo - Santa Cruz (Br.) / Mogi Mirim / Corinthians / Pameiras (5 years)
Ronaldo - Cruzeiro (1 year)
Juninho - Sao Paulo / Vasco da Gama (4 years)
Denilson - Sao Paulo (4 years)

With the exception Ronaldo, they all spent multiple years in the Brazilian first division. Whatever. You can believe what you want at this point. I'll try to stick with what we agree on.

What I think we agree on:

1) There absolutely should be a promotion / relegation system in our soccer league, and I think that it is detrimental to us that we don't have one. That is driven by owners primarily, who don't want any risk attached to their multi-million dollar investments.
2) I think the salary cap is silly and I think that the "designated player" concept is ridiculous. I would rather have 2 or 3 extremely strong soccer teams than the glut of mediocrity that we currently have.
3) I also agree that we should take the CONCACAF Champions League more seriously, since I think it helps to convince quality Latin American players to play here instead of LigaMX.
4) I also think that there should be one table, not two divisions. You play every team twice. Top teams to to CONCACAF Champions League. Bottom teams go to the second division (see #1).
5) I think expansion needs to stop at this point. Too many teams equals a watered down product.
6) I would not allow soccer fields that don't conform to normal dimensions and standards just so that I can play in an already made arena (i.e. NYCFC in Yankee Stadium). It's like watching people play pickup at the park. It's silly.

Do I think MLS is great? No I don't. There's actually a hell of a lot of things that I would fix in it if I were running it. But that doesn't mean that I think the league is unimportant. I think it needs to be fixed so that the USA can ultimately succeed on the world stage...

MLS will never be great as long as it insists on parity, slow growth, a ridiculous salary cap and most of SINGLE ENTITY.

The owners aren't owners. They have no interest in sending studs to Portland and Kansas City because they are midmarket and get sell outs with "no name" squads. They would rather deliberately guide talent to underperforming big markets because they collectively profit.

Also the regular season means virtually nothing. Nada. Zilch.

 

[UConnDan97]

You've essentially reiterated whay I've already said. Thanks?

 

[LIuconn]

Maybe I need more babysitting, but how can the argument be made that Brazil or Argentina leagues are strong when the starting lineup of Brazil's winning WC team were on Euro based clubs during the tournament?

Sure, everyone starts somewhere, but the best make their way to Europe (and usually at a young age) - and those players typically make up the A team when international duty calls.

Brazil wins championships and Argentina knocks on the door with most, if not all their starters on the books in Europe.

Why did Gabriel Jesus go to Man City?

 

[ZooCougar]

Maybe I need more babysitting, but how can the argument be made that Brazil or Argentina leagues are strong when the starting lineup of Brazil's winning WC team were on Euro based clubs during the tournament?

Sure, everyone starts somewhere, but the best make their way to Europe (and usually at a young age) - and those players typically make up the A team when international duty calls.

Brazil wins championships and Argentina knocks on the door with most, if not all their starters on the books in Europe.

Why did Gabriel Jesus go to Man City?

Don't forget Uruguay.

In the book Soccernomics the author made the argument countries with players that play in less competitive leagues are at an advantage in the World Cup because they show up fresher. I guess that's England's excuse.

 

[UConnDan97]

Maybe I need more babysitting, but how can the argument be made that Brazil or Argentina leagues are strong when the starting lineup of Brazil's winning WC team were on Euro based clubs during the tournament?

Sure, everyone starts somewhere, but the best make their way to Europe (and usually at a young age) - and those players typically make up the A team when international duty calls.

Brazil wins championships and Argentina knocks on the door with most, if not all their starters on the books in Europe.

Why did Gabriel Jesus go to Man City?

Because I just showed you that the vast majority of those players played multiple years as professionals in their own leagues. Meaning they received the bulk of their technical training at home! My goodness, I didn't think this would be such a hard concept for people to grasp! And I've also further supported those facts with the fact that 16 of the top 50 ranked clubs in the world are from those 2 countries.

There's nothing more for me to say beyond that. If you want to just be stubborn and act as if those leagues are somehow on par with MLS or LigaMX, go right ahead and be my guest...

 

[UConnDan97]

Don't forget Uruguay.

In the book Soccernomics the author made the argument countries with players that play in less competitive leagues are at an advantage in the World Cup because they show up fresher. I guess that's England's excuse.

I didn't forget Uruguay. That's why I said after 1950. Keep up with us, okay?