PTI Questions if UConn's Days of Dominance Are Done

[fireford]

Short answer. Yes and no. The days of plowing through the field easily are over as South Carolina and other programs have now emerged but UConn still has the brand name that will have top recruits taking their phone calls.

 

[my2cents]

UCONN's current team, which is not the same team as 5 years ago, is only compared to UCONN history.
They absolutely get NO CREDIT for finishing 2. Our "drought" of winning championships continue, they report. Drought compared to whom? Louisville who has never won one. Tenn. who hasn't been to a Final 4 since 2008, or all the schools who never even get to a sweet sixteen.
Geno has pointed out that this current group, this was their first championship game, not their 12th.
I don't agree that finishing second is a bad year, especially with all that we have gone through. ESPN can "stick it" as far as I am concerned.

 

[hoopsfan22]

The crux of the no argument was that there are more good players going to more schools, a.k.a. parity. Of course South Carolina just won a national championship against a team that started 3 former #1 high school recruits, and Geno has reeled in the majority of the #1 recruits over the last decade. I think the better argument might be that the talent gap between the top recruits and those just below isn't as great as it used to be, or that the so-called generational talents don't have as much of an edge as they used to the way Stewie, Maya, or Diana did.

 

[Sifaka]

#2 of 356 Division I WBB teams.

This, in a year of serious injury to many team members, lesser but lingering ailments for others. It took a rare combination of player effort and coaching skill to get to the Final Four.

But read the Boneyard. As an aside, there are plans afoot to change the forum name to

Disgruntlement & Curmudgeonliness.

According to a vocal few, the coach has lost the ability to recruit,
the players aren’t any good, the sky is still falling, having fallen for a few years now, and the tender egos of the complainers have not been adequately satisfied.

I must be a card-carrying pollyanna. I respect and admire the coaching staff and players. I'm grateful to them. Far as I can tell, they are fine people.

Would #1 of 356 have been nicer? Naturally.

This thing called reality comes calling now and then. Screaming I need…, being told by parents that it's more like I want… and finallly discovering that neither of those equates to therefor I'm entitled to have… .

I offer thanks to the players and coaches. I'm grateful to fellow Boneyard members who share happiness and sorrow, and to those who point out deficiencies and suggest remedies.

As to the few, certainly the OP is not among them, who declare that all is lost, that Geno et alia stink, that we shall never again enjoy the glory that is our birthright, I wish you well, from a distance.

[/rant]

 

[Dognusty]

I think UCONN is one of a few great programs right now. I don't think we are going to ever see the days of another purely dominant program. Gift and curse of more exposure of women's basketball is recruits are being exposed to many different brands of basketball. At one point all you saw on TV was Tennesse then it was UCONN and Tennesse. But now you are seeing a higher variety of teams.

 

[Blueballer]

There’s a lot more to this than talent dispersal. Much of if has to do with the progression of physicality in the game. The desire to make it more like the men’s game has allowed the slow acceptance of much more contact in WCBB. Get yourself a recording of any game from 1994-95. There’s a reason why that basketball was so “pretty”. While it could get scrappy, then didn’t let them bump cutters, hold players and tackle people like they do today. The beauty of Geno and Tara’s flowing offense has been diluted by heavy contact. Physicality is the great equalizer. I don’t find it as enjoyable.

 

[BobbyJ]

#2 of 356 Division I WBB teams.

This, in a year of serious injury to many team members, lesser but lingering ailments for others. It took a rare combination of player effort and coaching skill to get to the Final Four.

But read the Boneyard. As an aside, there are plans afoot to change the forum name to

Disgruntlement & Curmudgeonliness.

According to a vocal few, the coach has lost the ability to recruit,
the players aren’t any good, the sky is still falling, having fallen for a few years now, and the tender egos of the complainers have not been adequately satisfied.

I must be a card-carrying pollyanna. I respect and admire the coaching staff and players. I'm grateful to them. Far as I can tell, they are fine people.

Would #1 of 356 have been nicer? Naturally.

This thing called reality comes calling now and then. Screaming I need…, being told by parents that it's more like I want… and finallly discovering that neither of those equates to therefor I'm entitled to have… .

I offer thanks to the players and coaches. I'm grateful to fellow Boneyard members who share happiness and sorrow, and to those who point out deficiencies and suggest remedies.

As to the few, certainly the OP is not among them, who declare that all is lost, that Geno et alia stink, that we shall never again enjoy the glory that is our birthright, I wish you well, from a distance.

[/rant]

You obviously have no understanding of how thrilling, life affirming, and important it is to be able to strut into the office or local Walmart in your UConn t-shirt and announce to all that “we” won it all again to a round of applause.

 

[Linart]

How come we don't hear this from the Men's side:

"North Carolina is in decline because they came in second this year."
"North Carolina is in decline because they haven't won a National Championship since 2017."

North Carolina Men and UConn women are not in decline. They are both still powerhouse programs.

 

[LoboDays]

No one should get their knickers twisted about things like this. It’s meaningless because no one defines “dominance”. If the same 2 teams played each other in the NC game year after year and the same team won every time, is the loser dominant?

My guess is that the talking heads feel that “dominance” can only belong to the champion. Every one else is good, very good, almost great but not dominant.

IMO, there is no dominate team anymore because multiple teams can win the NC in any given year. If SC goes on a multi-year run of NCs, they deserve the description. Other than that, the term should be put to bed.

 

[cockhrnleghrn]

As long as you guys have Geno, you're relevant, but he'll turn 69 during next season. The real question is probably how much longer will he coach and who will replace him?

 

[UcMiami]

What people seem to forget about is Uconn has never cut through the rest of WCBB. Uconn had one magical ride from 2014-2016, and it was a huge surprise that it started a year earlier in 2013. Entering 2013's NCAA Uconn was not expected to win it all - Griner and Baylor were dominating having just gone 40-0 the year before. Early in 2012-13 season Baylor lost by 2 points to Stanford (sound familiar?) before blowing through the rest of the regular season and the B12 tournament. Then the biggest upset since #1 Standford and #16 Harvard happened with a barrage of 3 pointers and a rugby style of game. Meanwhile, Uconn was losing 3 times to ND and once to Baylor (two games in Hartford, one at Gampel, and one at ND.) And in 2014 ... ND entered the championship game undefeated with their star center having injured herself in the E8 game (sound vaguely familiar?)

From 2005-2012 Uconn won 2 titles, TN and Baylor won 2 each, LSU and Stanford each reached the FF 5 consecutive years and ND started their own streak of 5 FFs.

TN, Duke, UNC, TX, ND, Stanford, LSU, Baylor, Rutgers, Villanova, Mississippi St, SC, in various combinations have always been challenging Uconn 'dominance' and I have probably left out a few. The domination people look at are the winning streaks and undefeated seasons but those are built not on winning against the best teams, but on not losing any games to the inferior teams. Look at SC and explain why they are 35-2 - because they couldn't beat two unranked teams this year including losing in their conference championship game (sound familiar? hint 2003)

Stewart had a magical 4 years, but it could easily have been 2 instead of 4 championships, and then nobody would be talking about this great evening out of WCBB. And look at the list of champions this decade SC, Baylor, ND, Uconn, Stanford, and the outlier TA&M. And look at the other FF participants - same names every year except for a few outliers. And look at the list for this century and you add a few addition standard names and a few one hit wonders.

The nature of the top of WCBB really hasn't changed, maybe the quality of the next 20 teams has improved a little and maybe the next 30 teams as well, but it really isn't showing up in results. So Uconn hasn't won a championship in 5 competitive years (6 calendar years) - they have been there in the FF each year and kismet hasn't smiled on them like it did in 2013 and 2014.

What is unique to Uconn is they have only had one 3 year streak in this century when they were not truly contenders for a championship (S16, E8, E8) and every other year they were in the FF - no team has been that consistent, and that consistency hasn't faded.

 

[hoopsfan22]

As long as you guys have Geno, you're relevant, but he'll turn 69 during next season. The real question is probably how much longer will he coach and who will replace him?

That's what I've been trying to say, but I think there is a fear among fans here as to what that will mean. Geno sticks around probably until Paige and Azzi graduate, but after that who knows, so we're looking at 3 to 5 years max I think and that's assuming his health holds up. I think by next year, and certainly no later than 2024, they start kicking around plans for his successor. How many more hints and comments about how he'd rather be in Florida golfing than cold Connecticut answering questions about intentional fouls does he need to drop?

 

[amb3096]

How does one define "really earning it"? I'd think that Paige deserves what she gets first and foremost because of how she built her brand, not that she wins NC or such. I don't think that companies are showering these girls with NIL deals just because of basketball...otherwise, Aliyah Boston would have some bigger deals than free membership at Orangetheory.

 

[connie]

What we are seeing in WCBB is fundamentally no different than what we see in many other sports: increased excellence in ability over time, with the result that the difference between the very best narrows as overall performance improves. The trend is a virtual law of nature. And it makes it harder and harder for any one team to win all the marbles at year's end.

This trend is harder to document in team sports (like basketball) featuring direct competition; it is easier to document in sports where athletes compete against each other by reference to some absolute (like time, weight, distance). By way of example, consider the women's marathon. In the mid-60s, the woman's record was 3:35. By 1970, it was 3:03. By 1980, it was 2:27. By 2000, it was 2:20. By 2020, the record was 2:14. The talent pool expands. Training, technique, strategy, and technology sharpen. The difference between 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc. becomes smaller and smaller as overall performance approaches the limit of what flesh and bone can endure. We are witnessing the same thing in WCBB.

 

[visitingcock]

How come we don't hear this from the Men's side:

"North Carolina is in decline because they came in second this year."
"North Carolina is in decline because they haven't won a National Championship since 2017."

North Carolina Men and UConn women are not in decline. They are both still powerhouse programs.

While true, there is a difference between "powerhouse" and "dominant."

 

[Beemer]

As long as you guys have Geno, you're relevant, but he'll turn 69 during next season. The real question is probably how much longer will he coach and who will replace him?

This. When a legendary coach who has established a powerhouse program retires, the program slowly but surely declines. The only exceptions I'm aware of are in men's college ball, Kentucky & UNC.If you look at the history of the women's college game none of the legendary powerhouse programs (Tennessee, Louisiana Tech, Old Dominion etc) was able to retain its place once their HOF head coaches retired or left. I don't see it being any different for UConn no matter who replaces Geno as coach.

 

[cancontent]

This type of debate between Wilbon and Kornheiser is typical PTI banter. Why take offense to it? They've asked this same question of other vaunted dynasties/dominant teams like the Lakers, Patriots, Yankees, Red Sox, etc. They're going to do the same if/when Duke have their challenges in the future.

They love having Coach Geno on the show and respect the UConn program. I don't see it as they're taking shots at the program.

It's part of what sells on sports television. I'm sure pundits on other networks have had similar debates because of the attention it will attract. With over 4 M viewers in the US alone, it's going to be a talking point and will hopefully bring in a few more fans who didn't pay as much attention to WBB in the past.

 

[amb3096]

The fact that they play basketball (for a small program to boot) was secondary to why The Cavinder Twins were first in line with these deals. They built up a strong social media brand and their large online fan base was probably what was appealing to their sponsors, not their basketball accolades.

 

[bballnut90]

UCONN is no longer the peerless title favorite that they appeared to be from 2014-2018, but they're still in the title hunt each year. There are now a handful of other teams on par with them at the top which wasn't the case for most years between 2009-2018 when they seemed like a lock to win it all going into the NCAA tournament. After the Williams/Nurse/Stevens class graduated, UCONN hasn't been a heavy title favorite, nor has the basketball product had the same flow or magic to it. So in that sense, UCONN dominating the sport and being peerless is done, and it has been over for several years now. UCONN is still UCONN, they are a goliath in the sport and haven't disappeared from the lime light, but there are just other programs now operating at a similar level which wasn't the case before.

 

[visitingcock]

UConn IS good for women’s basketball now that they are AN annual powerhouse rather than THE only powerhouse.

Without the annual UConn game, would Dawn have been able to build the excitement around her program to the point that AJa stayed home? To the point that Boston came to the Deep South?

 

[Jmsdawg]

The crux of the no argument was that there are more good players going to more schools, a.k.a. parity. Of course South Carolina just won a national championship against a team that started 3 former #1 high school recruits, and Geno has reeled in the majority of the #1 recruits over the last decade. I think the better argument might be that the talent gap between the top recruits and those just below isn't as great as it used to be, or that the so-called generational talents don't have as much of an edge as they used to the way Stewie, Maya, or Diana did.

Agree with much of what you say. Certainly, there is more parity amount WCBB teams than in the past because more young girls are playing the game so the pool of quality players is larger but for individual games the matchup is a big factor. Some teams not nearly as talented play better against a team than other more talented teams. IMO, UConn does not match up well with a physical team like SC.

 

[uconnfan68]

UCONN's current team, which is not the same team as 5 years ago, is only compared to UCONN history.
They absolutely get NO CREDIT for finishing 2. Our "drought" of winning championships continue, they report. Drought compared to whom? Louisville who has never won one. Tenn. who hasn't been to a Final 4 since 2008, or all the schools who never even get to a sweet sixteen.
Geno has pointed out that this current group, this was their first championship game, not their 12th.
I don't agree that finishing second is a bad year, especially with all that we have gone through. ESPN can "stick it" as far as I am concerned.

They always go out of there way to dismiss UConn. Wasn't enough for them to destroy the old Big East to help the ACC.