Prepare yourselves . . .

[PennStateRod]

for a Big East/ACC merger. With the SEC possibly taking a team or two from the ACC (FSU/VT), and the Big Ten taking 2 more (BC, MD) the remainder of the BE and ACC will merge. Which is great news (IMO) to finally eliminate the non-football schools. Imagine a Syracuse, Uconn, UNC, and Duke led basketball conference

 

[Dann]

u really think bc is going to the BIGteleven? ND will happen before that.

 

[PennStateRod]

ND, UT, BC, MD to get to 16

 

[businesslawyer]

If that is how the Big Ten goes to 16, I'm all for those 4 schools. That leaves me a future (a merged Big EAst and ACC) with all of my core eastern football brethren (WVU, Pitt, syracuse and RU).

But your Presidents would be beyond idiotic to choose BC over (leaving UConn out of it) Pitt or Syracuse or Rutgers. Absolutely beyond idiotic.

 

[Dann]

i really like that. you guys take nd(who we dislike becuase they wont play fball with us). then take under armor, then bc. lets say texas goes indy instead, can u take miami off everyones hands as well?

 

[SAMCRO]

If that is how the Big Ten goes to 16, I'm all for those 4 schools. That leaves me a future (a merged Big EAst and ACC) with all of my core eastern football brethren (WVU, Pitt, syracuse and RU).

But your Presidents would be beyond idiotic to choose BC over (leaving UConn out of it) Pitt or Syracuse or Rutgers. Absolutely beyond idiotic.

Agreed 100%, but if....if that did happen and it was BC to the B1G, it would be solely at the request of ND. If you're the B1G, and the way you get ND is bringing along their little brother, you'd do it. ND will deliver the Boston market to the B1G more than BC will.

 

[PennStateRod]

Bingo, BC (along with Boston TV market) is just a chip to entice ND, by bringing along their rival.

 

[businesslawyer]

Playing his scenario out, let's assume the SEC grows to 16 with Mizzou, Aggies, FSU and Va Tech.

Let's also assume, for whatever reason, that the ACC can get its TV contracts redone to market and it, without the basketball schools, is inviting the Big East schools in (which is not at all a given but you have to start assuming somewhere). That would leave you with the following 16 team conference:

A Northern Division of UConn, Syracuse, Pitt, WVU, Rutgers, Louisville and Cincy.

A Southern Division of Miami, Clemson, Ga Tech, the 4 Carolina Schools and Virginia.

The 16th would be one of USF, TCU and/or Kansas, depending on how people judge markets versus football versus hoops.

That would be a perfectly fine outcome. This league would be #4 in pigskin, but one of the top 4 and far above anyone left below it, and the dominant hoops league. And the geography, while not like it used to be, would not be absurd. Sign me up now (not my first choice but I'll take it).

 

[PennStateRod]

That's a great conference from Uconn's perspective.

 

[gars44]

unlikely

 

[upstater]

No

 

[kibblesnbits]

How does BC, a research lightweight, fit the mold of the Big 10? Even Northwestern, the only private school in the current league configuration, is a comprehensive university and major research center. BC just doesn't fit the model espoused by Big 10 presidents and I'd take any alleged plan that includes them with a grain of salt.

 

[Dann]

That's a great conference from Uconn's perspective.

no its not. uconn knows no matter where it goes that both bball program will be just fine. so yes that league is great for bball, but we know no matter where we go we will be good, and if the league is weak we can just boost our ooc a bit. bball has no play in this. we need a good fball league, were trying to build a top25 fball program, one thats respected on the same level as our bball. it took us 20 years to get there in bball, were half way there in fball. playing duke/cincy/wake/a down miami does not help us fball wise.

 

[businesslawyer]

The thought that ND is going to give up money, and the rest of the Big Ten will join them, to take BC over Pitt or Syracuse or Rutgers is absurd. Why would ND do that? You think there is something in it for them? You just think they're nice guys and care about BC? Why?

 

[bmayuc]

every scenario is unlikely, but this one is at least interesting

 

[Dann]

and no way the BIG comes east for bc without touching nyc. psu and michigan will deliver boston better than bc for u. your just a hockey fan looking for a good time.

 

[uc1974]

ND is not going to be attracted by BCU. That's similar to saying UConn would be attracted by URI. BCU would continually battle Indiana for last place.

 

[gars44]

The whole premise is absurd, because ND will not get involved in any of this. Neither will Texas.

 

[coachcap]

for a Big East/ACC merger. With the SEC possibly taking a team or two from the ACC (FSU/VT), and the Big Ten taking 2 more (BC, MD) the remainder of the BE and ACC will merge. Which is great news (IMO) to finally eliminate the non-football schools. Imagine a Syracuse, Uconn, UNC, and Duke led basketball conference

You lost all credibility with me as soon as you mentioned the B1G & the Thunder Chickens in the same breath. Then, in your next post, you mentioned bringing the "Boston Market", because the ACC can tell you that they do that so well now. If the B1G is going to expand to the Northeast, the city that they CARE about is the Big Apple, not the home of baked beans.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Why would the Big 10 bring in the two biggest options available in the country, to make an incredibly strong 14 team conference, then dilute it with two marginal programs to get to 16? If they bring in Texas and ND, markets are irrelevant. The BTN can then be national without any problem at all.

 

[MilliniumPrince]

I may be nuts, but I don't think the SEC is going to 16 anytime soon. I don't think they have any reason to do so. Unless you find new members who bring a lot of eyeballs to the t.v. screen...why dilute their current contract any further? I can see them going to 14 and putting the breaks on for a long time.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Bingo, BC (along with Boston TV market) is just a chip to entice ND, by bringing along their rival.

If the B1G actually believes either is a possibility (BC bringing the Boston TV market or ND) they deserve what they get.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Honestly, the B1G doesn't need the Boston market. They can get that from ND and Texas. People here don't care about midwestern schools, just as they don't care about southern schools, and the fact that BC is here is not going to really make them care much more than they already do. The only teams they care about are the Yankees, Lakers, Canadiens, and whoever messed up Tom Brady's hair. And we've all seen how much BC has brought "Boston" to the ACC.

 

[PennStateRod]

I may regret saying this, but those of you saying No to a ACC/BE merger have a serious lack of self awareness. Uconn, who I sincerely hope develops into fixture in the top 25, is just a toddler in conference re-alignment. Demanding more than the proposed merger is like a toddler demanding the adult table at Thanksgiving dinner. Just be grateful you get a seat at the card table and don't get stuck back in the high chair.

Merger with ACC is much better than the 12/20 scenario with a bunch of leftover Midwestern teams.

 

[PennStateRod]

Read Purple Cat & Frank the Tank:

Purple Cat:

Earlier this evening, Notre Dame and Texas jointly presented the Big Ten Conference with their proposed terms of entry into the conference. These terms resulted from lengthy discussions among both schools and the Big Ten over the past several months.

The major items include:
1. The preservation of an eight game (plus championship) conference football schedule. Both ND and Texas wish to preserve rivalries with non-Big Ten universities on a regular basis. This would require the Big Ten to abandon its current plans of a 9 game conference schedule.
2. The staggering of the schedule to allow for mid-season scheduling with non-conference football opponents.
3. The preservation of the status quo conference makeup until approximately 2014, unless the Big XII fails to retain key (NOT including A&M) conference members. This will provide the member schools, acting in unison, with the greatest leverage negotiating ongoing television contracts, particularly with ESPN.
4. Should Texas depart the conference for the Big Ten before ND due to the further disintegration of the Big XII, ND will remain independent until approximately 2014
5. The Longhorn Network would remain independent until approximately 2014, at which point the network would become a part of an expanded Big Ten Network (specifically referred to as "BTN2"), likely either in partnership with Fox, NBC, or less likely ABC

The Big Ten just wrapped up a meeting to initially consider all of the terms presented by the schools, including the aforementioned.

Notably, there is a general discontent with the reporting of the situation by ESPN with specific regard to Texas. ESPN has, for self-serving purposes, drastically exaggerated the lean of Texas to the Pac12 conference in nearly all commentary. ESPN has essentially waged a propaganda campaign to drive support among the Texas stakeholders to the Pac12 conference. ESPN has gone so far as to attempt to accelerate the disintegration of the Big XII to pressure Texas into making an immediate conference change decision. Texas has steadfastly resisted change, and will do so until the appropriate time occurs for Texas to stand in a strong position to renegotiate television contracts, including with ESPN.

In reality, the preference expressed by Texas' relevant leadership is to depart the Big XII for the Big Ten at the time that gives Texas the greatest leverage in negotiating a new television rights deal. The Big Ten and Texas agreed that Texas should do what is best for Texas, which they also both agree is a move by Texas to join the Big Ten Conference. Delaney's top priority has been to create an environment for Texas and Notre Dame to join the conference on mutually benefical terms.

Notre Dame has an interest in preserving its traditional rivalries, three of which occur already in the Big Ten, and creating a new national rivalry with a traditional powerhouse. The Big Ten believes that ND prefers independence, but realizes that it will soon have no choice but to join a conference. The Big Ten also believes that ND is trying to position itself so that if it must join a conference, it does so on the most favorable terms possible. Hence the return to the 8 game schedule and a protected game with national power Texas. The Big Ten will attempt to create a mutually beneficial environment for ND that allows it to preserve a great deal of independence to retain all its traditional rivalries within the conference context.

The initial mood at the Big Ten to the terms provided by the two schools is "receptive."
This post was edited on 9/8 2:20 AM by PURPLE Book Cat

 

[PennStateRod]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Conference Realignment: If I Was Richer, I’d Still Be With Ya
Posted: September 8, 2011 by Frank the Tank in Big East, Big Ten, Sports
Tags: Big 12, Big Ten Expansion, Oklahoma Sooners, Oklahoma to Pac-12, Pac-12 Expansion, SEC Expansion, Texas A&M to SEC, Texas to the Big Ten
77

It’s been a crazy couple of days to say the least. We saw the SEC vote to conditionally accept Texas A&M, Baylor and a bunch of other Big 12 schools holding up the A&M move by refusing to sign some legal waivers, rumors stating the Pac-12 doesn’t really want to expand but will still add Oklahoma and Oklahoma State, Texas and Notre Dame are heading to the Big Ten, and the Big East may pick up some Big 12 leftovers, and now it may be all for naught with the Big 12 possibly being saved (in part by BYU). So, by the time you read this post, it might be completely outdated with how fast the news and rumor mill has been churning. Anyway, I have few thoughts on the latest developments:

1. Can’t blame Baylor (and others) for legal stance – As a lawyer, if I was representing any institution in this scenario, whether it’s Baylor, Iowa State or Texas, there’s NFW that I’d let it sign a blanket waiver of legal rights to the SEC and if such institution wanted to proceed, I’d insist upon some type of considerable payment in return. A waiver of this nature wouldn’t be enforceable without some type of consideration from SEC, anyway.

In the case of Baylor, there might literally be no amount of consideration outside of the preservation of the Big 12 itself (as long-term AQ status trumps short-term monetary payoffs) that could justify signing that waiver. Whether Baylor actually has a case with respect to tortious interference against the SEC isn’t really relevant here. At face value, this type of case is probably a loser. The Big East attempted to sue the ACC on similar grounds back in 2003 and ultimately settled for $5 million total, which is effectively pocket change that wouldn’t even cover 50% of one year of conference TV revenue for just one Big 12 school. However, Mike Slive would know that insisting upon a waiver of legal rights would cause an allergic reaction among Big 12 members as a legal principle. I don’t think much of Dan Ponzi Beebe, but he was correct in his statement that it’s unprecedented for a raiding conference to ask for waivers of legal rights from those left behind in the raided conference. It doesn’t make sense for the SEC to do this from a practical standpoint unless they have some other motives outside of the legal realm (which we’ll get to in a moment). That being said…

2. Can’t blame Texas A&M for being volcanically pissed off – As a business man, I have a hard time seeing the value in attempting to keep around a school that clearly doesn’t want to be there. As long as Texas A&M pays all of the exit fees that it has agreed to with the Big 12 (which by all accounts it plans to do), then the Aggies should be free to go as they please. Whether Oklahoma or others might leave after the Aggies (thereby dissolving the Big 12) shouldn’t be the problem of Texas A&M or the SEC. It’s in the best interests of everyone within the Big 12 to move on as quickly as possible. Now, I believe that Aggies have some misplaced anger toward Baylor in the sense that the SEC is the entity that is requesting something that no other Big 12 school (unless it’s heading out the door for the West Coast) would reasonably sign. Which gets to the next point…

3. SEC isn’t doing this for purely legal reasons – As I’ve done several times before on this blog, I’ll point to Mr. SEC, who I believe had a spot-on commentary on the SEC’s true motives in asking for these waivers: Mike Slive wants to see if he can cause Larry Scott and the Pac-12 to act first. Personally, I doubt Slive will win this particular game of chicken since, by all accounts, the Pac-12 is only going to act if A&M moves first. Still, it doesn’t really hurt the SEC to attempt this tactic, where the conference can just wait awhile and then decide to proceed with expansion without the Big 12 waivers.

 

[PennStateRod]

4. Big Ten looking to form the “ You, Pay Me” Conference? – The famous Purple Book Cat of the WildcatReport.com resurfaced last night with the following rumor: the Big Ten is looking to add Notre Dame and Texas with a bevy of conditions, including folding the Longhorn Network into a “BTN2″. The proposed solution to the “LHN problem” actually makes some sense, although I don’t quite understand the issues that the Big Ten would have regarding ESPN supposedly pushing the UT-to-the-Pac-12 angle (as the channel actually has a much closer and wider-ranging relationship with the Big Ten compared to the Pac-12). Chip Brown of Orangebloods separately stated the following, as well:

An outside the box option would be something like a conference such as the Big Ten allowing Texas to join the league and only make money off of LHN and not share revenue from the Big Ten Network. File that one away.

Should any of us really be giving this idea any credence? Probably not. I don’t see how the Big Ten is going to provide special arrangements to Texas when Jim Delany spent a TON of capital in convincing power schools like Michigan and Ohio State to sign up for the Big Ten Network instead of forming their own individual networks.

At the same time, if there’s any truth to the notion of Notre Dame joining a conference, I have faith that it will be smoked out by the school’s alumni base long before a decision is made. They’re on a 24/7/365 Independence Watch over there, so this isn’t a matter that’s going to get agreed upon in a backroom at least as far as South Bend is concerned.

Regardless, assuming that no one knows what they’re talking about on anything regarding conference realignment (which is true), we can at least play along and put together a B1G 16 You, Pay Me Conference pod setup with, say, Syracuse and Rutgers (PURELY for discussion purposes – substitute Missouri, Pitt, Maryland, Boston College, or anyone else if it makes you feel better) in addition to UT and ND with each school having a protected cross-division rival (in parentheses):

NORTH
Michigan (Ohio State)
Michigan State (Rutgers)
Notre Dame (Texas)
Purdue (Indiana)

EAST
Ohio State (Michigan)
Penn State (Nebraska)
Rutgers (Michigan State)
Syracuse (Minnesota)

SOUTH
Texas (Notre Dame)
Illinois (Iowa)
Northwestern (Wisconsin)
Indiana (Purdue)

WEST
Nebraska (Penn State)
Iowa (Illinois)
Wisconsin (Northwestern)
Minnesota (Syracuse)

If the Big Ten has an 8-game conference schedule as proposed in the Purple Book Cat scenario, that means each school would play its 3 podmates annually plus 1 cross-division rival and then rotate through the other pods each year on an NFL-style basis. From a Notre Dame perspective (who is really the one that needs to get pleased even more than Texas), this setup keeps their 3 traditional Big Ten rivals, secures an annual game with Texas, and then allows them to still schedule USC and Navy home-and-home in the non-conference schedule. That’s about as close as you can get to a national schedule for Notre Dame while preserving the maximum number of rivals within the confines of a conference. While that’s likely never going to be enough for the independent-minded Notre Dame alums (as independence is really an identity issue for that school as opposed to a financial stance), I doubt the Irish could get much better from a pure scheduling standpoint.

Anyway, this is all a hypothetical… like everything else in conference realignment.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I may regret saying this, but those of you saying No to a ACC/BE merger have a serious lack of self awareness. Uconn, who I sincerely hope develops into fixture in the top 25, is just a toddler in conference re-alignment. Demanding more than the proposed merger is like a toddler demanding the adult table at Thanksgiving dinner. Just be grateful you get a seat at the card table and don't get stuck back in the high chair.

Merger with ACC is much better than the 12/20 scenario with a bunch of leftover Midwestern teams.

I can't speak for everyone but I personally am not deemanding a seat at the adult table. My only comment (which I would appreciate a response to) was that the idea that BC could bring the Boston television market and ND is joke as they would bring neither.

 

[businesslawyer]

I may regret saying this, but those of you saying No to a ACC/BE merger have a serious lack of self awareness. Uconn, who I sincerely hope develops into fixture in the top 25, is just a toddler in conference re-alignment. Demanding more than the proposed merger is like a toddler demanding the adult table at Thanksgiving dinner. Just be grateful you get a seat at the card table and don't get stuck back in the high chair.

Merger with ACC is much better than the 12/20 scenario with a bunch of leftover Midwestern teams.

Thank you. It wasn't clear to everyone that you weren't here to have an interesting discussion but only to get to the point where you could laud your historical superiority to ours. Now you've cleared that up.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

You are correct in believing that the proposal above shouldn't be given any credence as the B1G will not give any special arrangements for Texas and ND. Neither will join the B1G without special provisions.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

The only thing that's clear to me about conference realignment is that nobody knows .

Going back to last year, the amount of rumors and innuendos floated out that turned out to be 100% completely wrong is astounding. Everyone from the World Wide Leader to small time podunk radio stations were completely wrong. Chip Brown has proven to be nothing more than DeLoss' mouthpiece.

 

[PennStateRod]

You guys can't get over your hate of BC. Forget I mentioned them. Instead insert (eastern BE/ACC school and substitute as you please). A merger with ACC is in your best interest. I'm saying this as a Connecticut resident and fan of your school who regularly purchases the XL Center hoops package . I didn't come here to discuss history, quite the opposite.

Honestly tell me, who is excited about the 12/20 option?

 

[businesslawyer]

You guys can't get over your hate of BC. Forget I mentioned them. Instead insert (eastern BE/ACC school and substitute as you please). A merger with ACC is in your best interest. I'm saying this as a Connecticut resident and fan of your school who regularly purchases the XL Center hoops package . I didn't come here to discuss history, quite the opposite.

Honestly tell me, who is excited about the 12/20 option?

There are pluses and minuses. From a football only perspective, the ACC--Big East merger is better. But many of us are struggling whether a good football option with better basketball is a better overall result. And, Duke and UNC notwithstanding, there is a lot to be said for the ability to drive to road games (from my home in Fairfield, Providence, Nova, St Johns, Seton Hall and Rutgers are all reachable for easy day trips) and for going to work and having coworkers who are alumni of the isntitutions you are playing. Not to mention playing the Big East Tournament in MSG every year.

As i said earlier, I don't have an issue with an ACC--Big East merger, but I don't have an issue with those who would prefer the 12-20 by adding Big XII schools.

 

[uc1974]

I'm not excited by any of it. However, I agree that a 12/20 has all the grace of a one legged dancer,

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I personally don't have an issue with a BE/ACC merger and, at least for some BE members (I believe we are one) this could be more beneficial than any other option. I don't like the idea of 12/20 at all. For basketball it would be a joke as the only logical scheduling proposal would be four five member pods, a home and home each year with the four other membes of a school's pod and on a rotating basis, two of the other three pods, one game each, will fill out an 18 game conference schedule. Having five conference members who you will not face in a given year is not a conference.

I understand the commissioner's desire to look into some solution that will keep all current sixteen members together but I am opposed to the fact that every potential solution seems to include the catholic membership. Even if it ends up being nothing that was investigated and then dismissed as undesirable, there has to be some potential solutions that include a split. I see no way that the only possible solutions all include continuing this hybrid.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Honestly tell me, who is excited about the 12/20 option?

From a football perspective, it's kind of a wash for me, it's a merger of two very average leagues to make another average league, or the addition of average BCS programs to make an average BCS league more average.

From a basketball perspective, it would depend on the structure of the conference hierarchy. I would absolutely despise being stuck with Swofford and his NC cronies running the basketball decisions, and having to play every dam conference tournament at the hole Greensboro Coliseum. If they wanted to switch off every year MSG and somewhere down south, that's acceptable, but if the basketball strings are being pulled in North Carolina, that will lead to terrible things for the BE basketball teams. I wouldn't be shocked if Dook finds a way to weasel out of having to play at Gampel and the Carrier Dome. God forbid they play an OOC road game at a true road site that isn't the Big 10-ACC challenge.

 

[CTFootball]

From a football perspective, it's kind of a wash for me, it's a merger of two very average leagues to make another average league, or the addition of average BCS programs to make an average BCS league more average.

From a basketball perspective, it would depend on the structure of the conference hierarchy. I would absolutely despise being stuck with Swofford and his NC cronies running the basketball decisions, and having to play every dam conference tournament at the hole Greensboro Coliseum. If they wanted to switch off every year MSG and somewhere down south, that's acceptable, but if the basketball strings are being pulled in North Carolina, that will lead to terrible things for the BE basketball teams. I wouldn't be shocked if Dook finds a way to weasel out of having to play at Gampel and the Carrier Dome. God forbid they play an OOC road game at a true road site that isn't the Big 10-ACC challenge.

In this scenario, marianatto would stay with the basketball schools and lead that league. Swofford woudl stay with the New ACC/BE. Could the cjampionship game move to a more centralized locale (i.e., DC).

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

Bleh. If it's a BE/ACC "merger" with the merged league essentially being run by the ACC, that's not very desirable.

 

[upstater]

You guys can't get over your hate of BC. Forget I mentioned them. Instead insert (eastern BE/ACC school and substitute as you please). A merger with ACC is in your best interest. I'm saying this as a Connecticut resident and fan of your school who regularly purchases the XL Center hoops package . I didn't come here to discuss history, quite the opposite.

Honestly tell me, who is excited about the 12/20 option?

I like it better than the ACC.

 

[brasssbonanzaa]

By the way, back to ND/Texas, more proof that the Big 10+2 would likely not want to go beyond four, according to the same report, OU called Delaney about possibly getting in on that, and he said no. If they don't want OU, they certainly aren't terribly enthusiastic about BC and Maryland, or anyone else.

 

[PennStateRod]

OU's academics are an issue, hell B10 take Vandy over OU.

 

[jpm25]

The whole premise is absurd, because ND will not get involved in any of this. Neither will Texas.

I don't agree with this. I think UT and ND have had substantive discussions with the B1G. I would be shocked if MD and BCU are on the radar, but who knows?

 

[jpm25]

I may regret saying this, but those of you saying No to a ACC/BE merger have a serious lack of self awareness. Uconn, who I sincerely hope develops into fixture in the top 25, is just a toddler in conference re-alignment. Demanding more than the proposed merger is like a toddler demanding the adult table at Thanksgiving dinner. Just be grateful you get a seat at the card table and don't get stuck back in the high chair.

Merger with ACC is much better than the 12/20 scenario with a bunch of leftover Midwestern teams.

+1

 

[freescooter]

You guys can't get over your hate of BC. Forget I mentioned them. Instead insert (eastern BE/ACC school and substitute as you please). A merger with ACC is in your best interest. I'm saying this as a Connecticut resident and fan of your school who regularly purchases the XL Center hoops package . I didn't come here to discuss history, quite the opposite.

Honestly tell me, who is excited about the 12/20 option?

I have to say I don't much care for the 12/20 scenario, though I seem to be alone in thinking that a basketball "conference" is already pretty meaningless. You can have 300 members for all that conference play matters. I actually think the Big 14 proposal makes far and away the most sense for everybody. Very solid football, and for those who put basketball first, playing in a league with Kansas, Missouri, K-State and even Iowa State has had its moments, would be better than any league out there. Probably comparable to the current Big East. The 12/20 model works fine, but I really don't think it is a long term solution. the biggest problem with the hybrid conference is that the schools in each camp have very different visions for their athletic programs now. this doesn't solve that in any way.

 

[upstater]

OU's academics are an issue, hell B10 take Vandy over OU.

I'll never get this board. Tout Baylor for academics, knock Oklahoma for academics. OU is not a bad school at all. They'd fit in with the Big10 academically. Remember, the Big10 took Nebraska. It's likelier that the Big10 did not want to admit a rogue program to add to its BigTwo..