Post-ND pressers

[CamrnCrz1974]

What is the standard for greatness? I believe it has to be more than one national championship in 35 years. Maybe I'm a tough marker but I'm not sure I would extend the list of "great" college basketball coaches much beyond Geno, John Wooden, Pat Summit and Coach K.

I respect Muffet as a coach, but she had chances to win more championships a few years when we were out of it, and she failed- she should have 3 or 4 by now.

Muffett tends to irritate, but year after year her team puts on the best display of well-coached basketball in the game, save for UConn.

Before Skylar Diggins arrived at Notre Dame, Muffet McGraw had two Final Four appearances and won the 2001 national title. McGraw's last eight years (starting with Skylar Diggins' first year in South Bend; ending with the 2016-2017 season):

• 269 wins (33.625 wins per year) against 30 losses (3.75 losses per year)
• .8996655 winning percentage
• Five Final Four appearances
• Four National Runners-Up
• Six conference (two Big East, four ACC) regular season titles
• Five conference (one Big East, four ACC) tournament championships

As an aside, in the last six years (only two of which were part of the Diggins era), McGraw had 209 wins (34.833 wins per year) and 16 losses (2.667 losses per year) for a winning percentage of .9288889. During the same time, Geno Auriemma had 220 wins (36.667 wins per year) and 11 losses (1.8333 losses per year), for a winning percentage of .95238. In these six years, the two schools played 13 game (with UConn winning 7 and Notre Dame wining 6). Of those 11 losses in six years, 6 are from Notre Dame; only Baylor (twice) has more than one win against UConn during that time frame.

Now, should McGraw have won the title in 2011, instead of Texas A&M? Remember, to get to the championship game, Notre Dame ended the career of the great Maya Moore. In 2012, Notre Dame again defeated UConn in the Final Four, but lost to Brittney Griner, Odyssey Sims, and an undefeated Baylor team. And in 2014 and 2015, her teams lost to UConn with the Stewart/Jefferson/Tuck trifecta.

For her career, Muffet McGraw has 7 Final Four appearances, five appearances in the national title game, and one national title. At some point, we need to stop talking about number of titles and reward sustained excellence.

I look at it this way...

• Serena Williams has 23 Grand Slam titles (7 Australian, 3 French, 7 Wimbledon, 6 US Open). She has made 29 GS finals and has won a staggering 79.3 percent of GS finals. Serena has reached the final four of GS tournaments 34 times and made 29 finals, meaning if she reaches the final four of a major, over 85 percent of the time she will also reach the final. Again, staggering.
  
• Venus Williams has 7 Grand Slam titles (5 Wimbledon, 2 US Open). She has made 16 Grand Slam finals and the final four of 23 major tournaments. Her record in GS finals is 7 wins and 9 losses; 7 of those losses were to Serena Williams.

Venus Williams is a Hall of Fame player. She is one of the all-time greatest female tennis players. With doubles and mixed doubles, she has as total of 23 major titles. She has been an elite player for 20 years and despite injuries, personal tragedies, and setbacks, she still continues to be an elite player and one of the all-time greats.

But Venus Williams is not Serena Williams. And she is not Serena Williams because no one else is. This is why Serena Williams is Serena Williams - the greatest player of all time.

Muffet McGraw may not have the same number of titles as Pat Summitt, Kim Mulkey, and/or Tara Vanderveer (side question...with my analogy, would they be the Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova, and Chris Evert of this discussion?). But, like Venus Williams, she has demonstrated sustained excellence over a consistent period of time (with some dips here and there), won at the highest level, made multiple Final Four and national title game appearances, and, to be blunt, the only coach in the last 8 years whose teams have provided consistent challenges to Geno Auriemma and the UConn juggernaut.

In other words, there is nothing wrong with being Venus Williams - an elite player, a Hall of Fame player, and one of the best in the history of the sport.

 

[bschwartz]

Presser is up.

Both of those videos are highlights. You can hear Geno's full audio here (the audio is at the bottom). I didn't record Muffet, but she was also reverential to UConn, talked about the benefits of playing in a game like this win or lose and also championed her players. LOL, she didn't want to be there, but IMO she handled the tough questions gracefully and positively.

 

[Golden Husky]

Before Skylar Diggins arrived at Notre Dame, Muffet McGraw had two Final Four appearances and won the 2001 national title. McGraw's last eight years (starting with Skylar Diggins' first year in South Bend; ending with the 2016-2017 season):

• 269 wins (33.625 wins per year) against 30 losses (3.75 losses per year)
• .8996655 winning percentage
• Five Final Four appearances
• Four National Runners-Up
• Six conference (two Big East, four ACC) regular season titles
• Five conference (one Big East, four ACC) tournament championships

As an aside, in the last six years (only two of which were part of the Diggins era), McGraw had 209 wins (34.833 wins per year) and 16 losses (2.667 losses per year) for a winning percentage of .9288889. During the same time, Geno Auriemma had 220 wins (36.667 wins per year) and 11 losses (1.8333 losses per year), for a winning percentage of .95238. In these six years, the two schools played 13 game (with UConn winning 7 and Notre Dame wining 6). Of those 11 losses in six years, 6 are from Notre Dame; only Baylor (twice) has more than one win against UConn during that time frame.

Now, should McGraw have won the title in 2011, instead of Texas A&M? Remember, to get to the championship game, Notre Dame ended the career of the great Maya Moore. In 2012, Notre Dame again defeated UConn in the Final Four, but lost to Brittney Griner, Odyssey Sims, and an undefeated Baylor team. And in 2014 and 2015, her teams lost to UConn with the Stewart/Jefferson/Tuck trifecta.

For her career, Muffet McGraw has 7 Final Four appearances, five appearances in the national title game, and one national title. At some point, we need to stop talking about number of titles and reward sustained excellence.

I look at it this way...

• Serena Williams has 23 Grand Slam titles (7 Australian, 3 French, 7 Wimbledon, 6 US Open). She has made 29 GS finals and has won a staggering 79.3 percent of GS finals. Serena has reached the final four of GS tournaments 34 times and made 29 finals, meaning if she reaches the final four of a major, over 85 percent of the time she will also reach the final. Again, staggering.
  
• Venus Williams has 7 Grand Slam titles (5 Wimbledon, 2 US Open). She has made 16 Grand Slam finals and the final four of 23 major tournaments. Her record in GS finals is 7 wins and 9 losses; 7 of those losses were to Serena Williams.

Venus Williams is a Hall of Fame player. She is one of the all-time greatest female tennis players. With doubles and mixed doubles, she has as total of 23 major titles. She has been an elite player for 20 years and despite injuries, personal tragedies, and setbacks, she still continues to be an elite player and one of the all-time greats.

But Venus Williams is not Serena Williams. And she is not Serena Williams because no one else is. This is why Serena Williams is Serena Williams - the greatest player of all time.

Muffet McGraw may not have the same number of titles as Pat Summitt, Kim Mulkey, and/or Tara Vanderveer (side question...with my analogy, would they be the Steffi Graf, Martina Navratilova, and Chris Evert of this discussion?). But, like Venus Williams, she has demonstrated sustained excellence over a consistent period of time (with some dips here and there), won at the highest level, made multiple Final Four and national title game appearances, and, to be blunt, the only coach in the last 8 years whose teams have provided consistent challenges to Geno Auriemma and the UConn juggernaut.

In other words, there is nothing wrong with being Venus Williams - an elite player, a Hall of Fame player, and one of the best in the history of the sport.

That was a very generous way to say that Muffet has won only one national championship in 35 years.

 

[mhshuskies]

Both of those videos are highlights. You can hear Geno's full audio here (the audio is at the bottom). I didn't record Muffet, but she was also reverential to UConn, talked about the benefits of playing in a game like this win or lose and also championed her players. LOL, she didn't want to be there, but IMO she handled the tough questions gracefully and positively.

I thought she was fine, just kind of OK it was a tough game.

 

[mhshuskies]

The part of your comment that I think is absolutely spot on is the part I've highlighted in bold. Geno not only gets to the Final Four (which a lot of people consider "the accomplishment"), but if he gets to the final, paydirt. As you said, "other worldly." Tip of my entire hat collection.

MM has gotten to those final fours multiple times. I can only think of two instances that -- as a long-time ND alum, fan and (sometimes) somewhat objective watcher - that I'd like to have back.
- The final vs. Texas A&M. I think Muffet, Skylar Diggins and company relive the latter part of that game over and over.
- The Perfect Season finale against UConn. Not the final game itself, but the moment Natalie Achonwa went down with a season-ending ACL in the Final Eight game against Baylor. It sucked the air out of the arena because Achonwa as such a critical part of that team.
Not saying it made the difference in the final, but any ND fan has bittersweet, "what if..." thoughts about it.

BTW, I'm well aware that many teams lose players, such as UConn's during ND's run to the championship with Ruth Riley and Niele Ivey. But those are two instances where I thought ND came up short. Maybe you can attribute one to "failure," but Texas A&M had something to do with that, too.

As for the other year, UConn was not around. I don't think anyone outside of a WNBA team was going to stop Ms. Griner and Baylor that year.

I've noted that several people have given Tara V at Stanford a slight nod over Muffet or thought they're some combination of 2-3. Tara has those two championships in the early 90s and MM hers at the turn of the century. They've both won their conference championships and been back to the final four (a bit more for ND recently). Solid, solid work...good enough for peers to induct them into the highest honors.

So I don't think of these in terms of failure, but rather just how awesome Geno's track record is.

P.S. ND's longtime soccer coach, Bobby Clarke, recently retired at age 72 after coaching for more than 30 years at Dartmouth, Stanford and ND. The "Boss" won his one NCAA championship in 2013 and everyone in men's soccer in the country (save Maryland fans) were rooting for him because they know hard it is. If he had not won, would it have diminished what he did for ND, for soccer and the young men he coached? No. Everyone was lucky to have the Boss around. But the championship was the validating frosting. MM and Tara have not failed anyone.

I would have thought you would want Skylars senior season semi back. That was a much tighter game and if you got by that one you would have L’ville in the final. I’m pretty certain you would have beat them.

 

[DefenseBB]

I'd put Tara at 2 and Muffet at 3, but could reverse those rankings.

Muffet has been significantly better these last 10 years. This years team with all the injuries and the transfer out and in, had me highly skeptical at their rank and their outlook as a top 10, however after watching a few of their games this year, she has done a really good job at getting them to mesh. Tara had a nice renaissance last year making it to the final four but her teams are not regular regarded as a top threat yearin and year out. Heck, she only won two titles with Jen Azzi and that was in the early 90’s. I have MM at #2 and a distant 3rd is Tara as a game tactician, Mulkey has to be considered for her recruiting and her 2 titles with different squads. Let’s see how Dawn does post A’ja Wilson before she enters the dialogue. Just my humble opinion my hometown colleague...