Possible Big 12 Invite rumors | Page 37 | The Boneyard

Possible Big 12 Invite rumors

Big 12 Yea/ Nay

  • We got no choice

    Votes: 305 46.9%

  • Stay in the Big East

    Votes: 251 38.6%

  • Are we there yet?

    Votes: 94 14.5%
  • Total voters
    650
upstater said:
Every year the university draws on the endowment which is part of income.

I don't know how many times I need to say this, but if it's true the state is the one that carries the cost of athletics (I say it's not) then Connecticut has defunded academics.

I don't understand your line of thinking at all, but if for some wild reason I agreed with you, I could only conclude the state doesn't care about UConn's academic mission enough to increase its funding over a decade.
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Or alternatively it believes that it's adequately subsidized.

When you say the University drugs down on their endowment do you mean it utilizes the income generated by its endowment?
 
CL82 said:
Or alternatively it believes that it's adequately subsidized.

When you say the University drugs down on their endowment do you mean it utilizes the income generated by its endowment?
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Maybe the people who adequately subsidize UConn need to learn about inflation, cost increases, if they believe a flat subsidy is good enough.

The truth is the state has increased funding to UConn over a last decade, but if you count the $100m in extra liabilities, and if you also believe that $50m of that is meant for athletics, a total of $150m subtracted from the increase in funding, then there hasn't been an increase in funding, despite increased costs, despite inflation, etc.
 
upstater said:
Break up in the sense that the marriage is over. Teams leave. The new league then negotiates a deal
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What new league? Do you believe the identical membership of a dissolved conference can immediately reassemble and not have any contractual obligations of the prior conference (which was materially identical)?

Additionally, how do you believe the NCAA would react to a group of schools sending in paperwork informing them that the ACC is no longer in existence with an attached letter by the same schools requesting the NCAA grant them status as an athletic conference.

ESPN would file a lawsuit against the individual schools (and possibly leadership of both the dissolved and the new conference) immediately, on the grounds that the excercise the schools just completed was merely a ploy to try to break a binding contract.

Hell, ESPN (if they wanted to be vindictive) could even attempt an injunction to prevent the schools from joining a conference or collecting any broadcast revenues until a judge made a determination on whether the dissolution/reconstitution of the ACC and its member schools was a legitimate set of distinct transactions with an actual purpose (outside of breaking a contract) or if it was just an attempt at bypassing contractual obligations.

This may be more of a financial risk than trying to buy out of the GOR.

The only way the ACC could legitimately dissolve would be to leave a handful of members behind as everyone starts looking for a new home.
 
upstater said:
Maybe the people who adequately subsidize UConn need to learn about inflation, cost increases, if they believe a flat subsidy is good enough.

The truth is the state has increased funding to UConn over a last decade, but if you count the $100m in extra liabilities, and if you also believe that $50m of that is meant for athletics, a total of $150m subtracted from the increase in funding, then there hasn't been an increase in funding, despite increased costs, despite inflation, etc.
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Apparently the University board of trustees believe that athletics brings value in excess of the cost, otherwise they wouldn't continue to offer it, right?
 
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Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?
 
Khal Drogo said:
Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?
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On our side, we aren’t leaving the BE just to play B12 basketball.

It was also stated by the B12 that they would not take a member with an FBS football team as a basketball only. So, that isn’t going to be on the table.
 
Khal Drogo said:
Gonzaga doesn’t have football. If Big 12 is approaching Gonzaga for basketball only maybe their interest in UConn is also Basketball only. Why has everyone assumed it’s for all sports?
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Because Yormark has expressly stated that he will not take a school that plays football as a basketball only.
 
.-.
superjohn said:
Final 4's have never really mattered to me, it's all about winning the whole thing.
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Making a Final Four is a big deal. Especially when your team held the record for most NCAA appearances without one.
 
FfldCntyFan said:
What new league? Do you believe the identical membership of a dissolved conference can immediately reassemble and not have any contractual obligations of the prior conference (which was materially identical)?

Additionally, how do you believe the NCAA would react to a group of schools sending in paperwork informing them that the ACC is no longer in existence with an attached letter by the same schools requesting the NCAA grant them status as an athletic conference.

ESPN would file a lawsuit against the individual schools (and possibly leadership of both the dissolved and the new conference) immediately, on the grounds that the excercise the schools just completed was merely a ploy to try to break a binding contract.

Hell, ESPN (if they wanted to be vindictive) could even attempt an injunction to prevent the schools from joining a conference or collecting any broadcast revenues until a judge made a determination on whether the dissolution/reconstitution of the ACC and its member schools was a legitimate set of distinct transactions with an actual purpose (outside of breaking a contract) or if it was just an attempt at bypassing contractual obligations.

This may be more of a financial risk than trying to buy out of the GOR.

The only way the ACC could legitimately dissolve would be to leave a handful of members behind as everyone starts looking for a new home.
Expand ...
It will still be the ACC. Im saying the current membership breaks up. 3 or 4 teams leave. By new conference I meant a conference with new members.

How would it be a ploy if schools left the conference? Not getting you.
 
.-.
CL82 said:
Apparently the University board of trustees believe that athletics brings value in excess of the cost, otherwise they wouldn't continue to offer it, right?
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No, I wouldn't assume that. I can think of any number of reasons why one continues to lose money.

1. President and Board are ensconced making a ton of money and they don't want to rock the boat. Some of the Presidents are all, fine, fine, fine, whatever, I'm making $1m. The amount of time Presidents spend on sports is much less than the ratio of the AD budget to the overall budget.

2. A school could fund athletics waiting for an opportunity to move to a more lucrative conference.

What do you believe is the value here exactly?

I also note that the topic here has changed. We were talking about the state subsidy.
 
Tiamat7 said:
The backup plan is to sit tight: stay in the Big East and reevaluate as circumstances evolve in the Big12 and ACC. The revenue gap widens in the interim, but the state of Connecticut will apparently cover it.
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Villanova operates on a $39 million budget and allegedly breaks even .
UConn’s is over $100 million with an annual deficit in the $50million range.
When you take Texas and Okla out of the equation our budget is right in line with current B12 schools
We pretty much operate like we’re a mid tier P5 school snd it’s at the expense of the CT taxpayers. How sustainable is that trend?
Just for reference Cinncy’s budget in the AAC is $89million with a deficit of $20million
That’s with a *$6 million plus conference contribution which is budgeted to increase to $ 26 million next year .
With a spending increase to get online with other Big 12 schools the deficit will be halved.
If you want to keep basketball in the Big East then make football attractive enough to be football only in the B12 or ACC snd guarantee that conference X number of basketball games a year both men’s and women’s
 
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upstater said:
It will still be the ACC. Im saying the current membership breaks up. 3 or 4 teams leave. By new conference I meant a conference with new members.

How would it be a ploy if schools left the conference? Not getting you.
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Either I misinterpreted your initial post or you subsequently added the few teams leaving.

I personally don't see dissolution of the conference as a possibility as it would leave any school without a prearranged invitation to a new conference in the wilderness. No school wants this and I can't see schools that are confident they'll eventually get an invitation to the B1G or SEC voting for dissolution as those invitations are likely years out.

The ACC is making noise solely because they can only make noise. Nothing can be done to change their situation but they have alumni bases that a few complaining schools need to be able to tell "we are trying everything we can" to keep them satisfied.

The schools crying the most (FSU, Clemson) only have the B-12 as a possible option and going through what it would take to gain their freedom wouldn't be worth the end result. The schools that may have options (three or four in NC & Va) know they are more than half a decade away from their options materializing. The rest of the conference either us hopeful that they can land on their feet or knows they will take a step down once the conference GOR expires.

ND is the only school that has no concerns. The second they say they'll join a conference for all sports the B1G will drop everything and add them. ND is in less if a rush than the B1G.

The ACC will remain as it is until the end of the GOR is within sight.
 
upstater said:
No, I wouldn't assume that. I can think of any number of reasons why one continues to lose money.

1. President and Board are ensconced making a ton of money and they don't want to rock the boat. Some of the Presidents are all, fine, fine, fine, whatever, I'm making $1m. The amount of time Presidents spend on sports is much less than the ratio of the AD budget to the overall budget.

2. A school could fund athletics waiting for an opportunity to move to a more lucrative conference.

What do you believe is the value here exactly?

I also note that the topic here has changed. We were talking about the state subsidy.
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You do realize presidents don't make these decisions unilaterally, right? Is it your assumption that the board is also not doing its job? Because it kind of seems like your logic here is anyone who doesn't agree with your premise, which frankly isn't mathematically sound, isn't doing their job. That would seem a convenient but disingenuous point of view.

We have meandered throughout this series of posts, but when you jump to a different topic I'm more than happy to follow along. I think we're pretty much done on the notion that academics fund the athletic department. Again, academics doesn't even fully fund academics, so it's clearly not funding anything else.

I always enjoy your insight on the world of higher academics. On this particular issue, I think you are suffering from myopia a bit.
 
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UConn has to be part of the expansion announcement with Colorado because once that domino falls the PAC will implode.

Zona, ASU, and Utah will be begging to follow CO.

UW, Oregon, Stanford and Cal will be pleading with the BIG10 and offering to take 1/2 shares.
 
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