Possible Big 12 Invite rumors

[upstater]

Is it real dollars? Every athletic scholarship is counted as a cost. How many dollars does it take them to add an athlete to a classroom or a few athletes to a lecture hall? How many extra professors do they have to hire as a result of adding athletes to the enrollment? My guess is that the answer to both questions is zero.

Part of the current deficit spike has to be related to AAC exit fees and BE entrance fees, so they’re not long term deficits; they’re temporary. Unless of course we change conferences again.

First off, scholarships are not the biggest cost. Far from. Less than 5% of these athletic budgets.

But if you understood university finances, you wouldn't ask these questions. Each department (and therefore each faculty member) is funded by a head count. How many majors do you have? How many minors? How many enroll in your classes? Any support to each department, even when it comes to salaries, is determined by that head count. This is why every department is in competition for students. It's not a good system, but that's how it works.

It is VERY real money. And you have to add instructors for athletes of course since athletes are a sizeable part of any student body from smalls schools to big schools. This is especially relevant because schools CAP classes in order to rise in the USNWR rankings. If it weren't for the class caps, you could make an argument that there could be unlimited space in each class (even though this would degrade the class engagement with students).

So, to answer, scholarships are a small part of the AD budget, and secondly, it is real money any way you cut it. If you docked every department $$ for teaching athletes, those departments would be in the hole.

I know many schools silo athletes into majors, so I suppose there could be a major somewhere that is barely serviced, like North Carolina did. But assuming players fulfilled all their general requirements and then have a selection of majors, it is real money.

 

[upstater]

The problem with the sentimental view in all of this (mine included) is we’re still in the early days of the “arms race” in college athletics. It’s getting more and more expensive to field teams. This includes NIL, coaches salaries, athletic facilities, etc. It’s great that we’ve been so successful to date, but unfortunately, the paradigm is shifting.

I see it as last days. Given recent court rulings, the players will be paid by the schools. At that point, the teams will be pros.

One good comparison for all of this is the grad student union strikes at Michigan. For all my time at universities, faculty have been supportive of grad students earning more. The rule of thumb used to be that more grad students meant cheaper labor to teach classes (I got $6k a year at Penn State 30 years ago, $15k at SUNY 25 years ago). The rate at Michigan for grad students is $40k and upward now. They teach a 1/1 load. In order to fund these, schools have cut grad student positions by 2/3 or more (i.e. a 15 person class is now a 5 person class). I'm not sure what the UM grad students want because this is going to be the absolute best teaching life is ever going to be for them. Schools are hiring "Clinical Teaching Faculty"(non tenure track) for $60-65k a year to teach 4/4 loads. You can see the huge savings. They are still hiring adjuncts to teach for $3-4k per class.

So, I'm saying that support for grad degrees has reached an economic breaking point. If they push for more beyond this, there will be existential questions as to whether the system will even continue.

 

[superjohn]

I see it as last days. Given recent court rulings, the players will be paid by the schools. At that point, the teams will be pros.

One good comparison for all of this is the grad student union strikes at Michigan. For all my time at universities, faculty have been supportive of grad students earning more. The rule of thumb used to be that more grad students meant cheaper labor to teach classes (I got $6k a year at Penn State 30 years ago, $15k at SUNY 25 years ago). The rate at Michigan for grad students is $40k and upward now. They teach a 1/1 load. In order to fund these, schools have cut grad student positions by 2/3 or more (i.e. a 15 person class is now a 5 person class). I'm not sure what the UM grad students want because this is going to be the absolute best teaching life is ever going to be for them. Schools are hiring "Clinical Teaching Faculty"(non tenure track) for $60-65k a year to teach 4/4 loads. You can see the huge savings. They are still hiring adjuncts to teach for $3-4k per class.

So, I'm saying that support for grad degrees has reached an economic breaking point. If they push for more beyond this, there will be existential questions as to whether the system will even continue.

Cut all non-revenue sports?

 

[upstater]

The $30-$40 million number that keeps getting thrown out there as UConn’s annual take if they join the Big 12…a few questions to anyone who might know the actual facts.

1. Where is the $30-$40 million to the Big 12 coming from? TV revenue?
2. If yes, is it guaranteed? If yes, until when?
3. Is it contingent? For example, if it’s TV money, is there a clause in the contract that nullifies or reduces payment if certain programs (Kansas; Oklahoma St; Iowa St, etc) exit the conference? Is the Big 12 still legally the Big 12 if, let’s say, 4 more of the original Big 12 programs leave?

That $30-40 million needs to be long term (10 years+) and fully guaranteed before I’m onboard. Taking a 400% raise to switch jobs is a “no brainer”…until and unless the company goes belly up a year later and you’re out on the street, homeless and broke.

If the money disappears for 2nd tier conferences like the B12 and ACC, it will disappear. But in that case, you can bet the top schools will try to find a landing spot. The UConns, Syracuse's, Pitts, WVs, BCs, etc. will be left behind. In other words, if you're suggesting the money will disappear, there will be a lot of schools suffering from that.

 

[upstater]

Maybe? But they can’t. And when the “magnificent 7” leave, there is no shot they can top the B12’s deal. It would be in everybody’s best interest to form a 20+ team conference at that point, and try to take on the B1G and SEC

I guarantee they top the B12s deal.

First of all, only half of the 7 will leave.

But NC State, Miami, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Duke >>> Kansas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St.

 

[aburks41]

I guarantee they top the B12s deal.

First of all, only half of the 7 will leave.

But NC State, Miami, Virginia Tech, Georgia Tech, Duke >>> Kansas, Baylor, Texas Tech, Oklahoma St.

There will be 1 conference that exists between the two by the end of it. We better be in that group or else we're outside of it - forever -

 

[bendm]

If it gets all the way to 2036 and they don’t leave by then I highly doubt the magnificent 7 will even be a thing anymore. UConn is clearly developing a relationship with yormark….the guy was on campus, if something makes sense for both sides we will do it…that time is clearly not now for him or us. Bringing in one northeast team does little for us or the conference

how would they cease to be a thing? once the GOR expires those 7, or at least the 5 of clemson, FSU, miami, unc, and uva, will be in the big10 and/or sec, and the acc will be dead. the leftovers will be sucked up by the big12 creating a third 20+ team superconference.

 

[FfldCntyFan]

Can someone please walk me through how a vote for dissolution of the ACC would go? I personally don't believe that there would be more than three or four who would vote in favor of it.

 

[CL82]

It is VERY real money. And you have to add instructors for athletes of course since athletes are a sizeable part of any student body from smalls schools to big schools. This is especially relevant because schools CAP classes in order to rise in the USNWR rankings.

I'm just trying to think that through. The notion that student athletes represent "extra seats" in classes seems to contradict the notion that student athletes are taking the place of non-athletes and therefore costing the school lost tuition.

My concern here is how does the school calculate the "tuition cost" of student athletes on full scholarship?

 

[John]

There will be 1 conference that exists between the two by the end of it. We better be in that group or else we're outside of it - forever -

this is us. Anything to get on that lifeboat

 

[Rico444]

this is us. Anything to get on that lifeboat

I don't remember Jack winning a national championship while the boat was headed down...

 

[HuskyHawk]

I promise you I'm not making it up. I would argue with them at the time. It was the same type of stuff we're seeing now, people taking unwarranted shots at the Big East. Making fun of the Big East and saying the league is done to try and prop up the situation UConn is in.

I think there is one gigantic reason to go to the Big 12 if the offer is there and that's money. I'm playing a bit of the contrarian role because I find the constant shots people are taking at the Big East to be so distasteful and dishonest. I really do think a move would hurt our basketball though and I far and away care more about UConn basketball than any other sport.

If I recall, I argued that it could be. It did start with Louisville of course. UConn, Louisville, Cincinatti, Houston, Memphis isn't exactly terrible, there is history there. It was similar at the top to the Big East at the time. But Louisville left, UConn pooped the bed with KO, Mick left, and Houston actually exceeded expectations. SMU was decent for a bit. Even UCF had a moment with Fall. The real problem was that the bottom of the league was simply dreadful. Wichita State could have helped, then Marshall had his issues.

B12 is very different. The worst team in the league is better than Georgetown was last year.

 

[Jbirdp5]

Where is Yormak going with this? There are complaints on this board about UConn being out on an island in relation to the restoration the Big Dust Bowl. That’s us, but does the Big Dust Bowl want a member out on an island? They’ve already been through that decade of discontent with West Virginia. They just backfilled with Cincinnati to give the Miuntaineers a partner.

And they now have a new island with BYU (almost 900 miles from their closest BIG 12 competitor). It seems to me that the Big XII’s more likely direction for expansion is to the west. So, I think that our chances to even have a Big XII offer to consider depend heavily on the future of the PAC 12. If they hold together, Yormak will look east, but if he can peel off any of that membership, then I don’t see any offer coming our way. PAC 12 members can also read the numbers on the Bug 12 TV contract and compare that to whatever they can come up with in their next TV deal, which will for sure not include the LA market, devaluing their product right from the get go.

Absolutely agree, if the big 12 goes west they aren’t going east as well.

 

[HuskyHawk]

For the first 5 years of AAC we got almost 4x BE dollars

We had more TV $ plus the NCAA credits from the Big East which we only shared with Cinci and USF I think. The new TV Deal sucked.

Former Big East becomes American Athletic

The American Athletic Conference is the new name for the former Big East Conference, according to sources.

www.espn.com

 

[FfldCntyFan]

We had more TV $ plus the NCAA credits from the Big East which we only shared with Cinci and USF I think. The new TV Deal sucked.

Former Big East becomes American Athletic

The American Athletic Conference is the new name for the former Big East Conference, according to sources.

www.espn.com

Tournament credits are not TV dollars. A-Dub was being quite disingenuous with his claims.

 

[HuskyHawk]

Tournament credits are not TV dollars. A-Dub was being quite disingenuous with his claims.

The TV $ was still more than in the Big East. But the combined package was a lot more. Also had exit fees.

 

[Billy Jack]

Kinda proves the point. Ain't the conference as much as it is the right coach.

Well, it is the conference when it comes to rivalries and resulting attendance. BC was successful on the court in the ACC as long as Al Skinner was their coach, BUT their decline in attendance began several year before he was canned.

 

[ElGreco]

If it gets all the way to 2036 and they don’t leave by then I highly doubt the magnificent 7 will even be a thing anymore. UConn is clearly developing a relationship with yormark….the guy was on campus, if something makes sense for both sides we will do it…that time is clearly not now for him or us. Bringing in one northeast team does little for us or the conference

If the ACC breaks the GOR we go with the likes of Syracuse & Pittsburgh - a no brainer!

 

[Billy Jack]

Morehead wasn’t desirable at that time. Whipple likely would have been better but who knows

I was really disappointed when they didn’t hire Whipple. That would have been a great move.

 

[Billy Jack]

The TV $ was still more than in the Big East. But the combined package was a lot more. Also had exit fees.

Right on the money. We had to stay with the AAC because the exit and entry fees were enormous.

 

[huskyinfl]

I won't tell you what my financial acumen is but I will tell you that I read the prepared remarks and the Q&A and I don't see any of their execs indicating the ESPN house is on fire. I see a senior team that knows that they’re in a period of advertising spend contraction (not historically bad) and a continued cable cutting period that they are managing through via transferring to a digital/DTC - linear TV combination that will get them through the otherside in a smart manner.

Question for you: do you think ESPN comes out of this in good to great shape, or do you think they're the next Blockbuster? Because it seems like you think they're headed towards Blockbuster status. Maybe I am misinterpreting, but seems like you are more sensitive towards ESPN's health than I am.

Not going to waste time on trolling - you won't tell blah blah blah. If you had the receipts you'd show them. Willis Tower Watson - there's my financial acumen.

 

[August_West]

Tournament credits are not TV dollars. A-Dub was being quite disingenuous with his claims.

We were collecting the name money too

 

[FfldCntyFan]

I was really disappointed when they didn’t hire Whipple. That would have been a great move.

Yeah,he did so well in his second run at UMass.

 

[August_West]

We had more TV $ plus the NCAA credits from the Big East which we only shared with Cinci and USF I think. The new TV Deal sucked.

Former Big East becomes American Athletic

The American Athletic Conference is the new name for the former Big East Conference, according to sources.

www.espn.com

Plus we were on ESPN. We all laughed at NBE being on new startup FS1 for minimal dollars. 10 years later it’s better than ESPN

 

[How Sway?!]

Plus we were on ESPN. We all laughed at NBE being on new startup FS1 for minimal dollars. 10 years later it’s better than ESPN

Nah, FS1 is still worse than ESPN