Porzingis to Boston? | The Boneyard

Porzingis to Boston?

Posted about this on the Pro Sports board. Per Woz, they also send Gallinari. Also means Grant will be moved in a sign and trade.

 
C's need a ring
 
mauconnfan said:
I like Brogdon too bad.
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He had to go. White emerged as a clear starter. He didn’t defend well enough. But the Cs desperately needed a guy like this who can score from the interior. He will be huge on D too.
 
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Boston doesn’t need a Porzingis. They need a true point guard and leader. Neither Tatum nor Brown are that guy. Luke-warm take: they’d be better off with Chris Paul.

They also need a better coach but that’s a separate issue
 
Rocktheworld said:
Boston doesn’t need a Porzingis. They need a true point guard and leader. Neither Tatum nor Brown are that guy. Luke-warm take: they’d be better off with Chris Paul.

They also need a better coach but that’s a separate issue
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Agreed but can't turn down Porzingis for what they would give up.
 
Rocktheworld said:
Boston doesn’t need a Porzingis. They need a true point guard and leader. Neither Tatum nor Brown are that guy. Luke-warm take: they’d be better off with Chris Paul.

They also need a better coach but that’s a separate issue
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They need Porzingis. They need a new coach. They need a true point guard.
 
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So this actually happened and the Celtics get Porzingis and a first this year and next year for Marcus Smart...

Strange
 
Maybe they can turn around Porzingis- obviously he has talent- but I would have totally stayed away from him- never has shown any impact of winning games in the league & is constantly injured. I almost had a heart attack when I read reports that my Knicks might go after him this off-season- no thank you. We will see how this turns out- it is weird how Boston wound up with first round picks but I believe that kind of shows you Porzingis true value around the league.
 
Hey Hawk, I saw what you did there. Dirty pool, imo.
 
Waquoit said:
Hey Hawk, I saw what you did there. Dirty pool, imo.
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Me? What? I commented on the early reported trade of Brogdan.

Rumor now is that Brogdan has a medical issue and probably can't be traded. I think this was a good deal for Boston. I don't think it will be the only move. They desperately needed an interior offensive presence.
 
I still like this a lot.

A big problem was the lack of a true PG and Smart was part of that problem. Like Brogdon and White, he's more of a combo guard. Perhaps he was the best passer but not by much. He also played out of control and took more ill-advised shots than any player I've seen since Toine retired.

Don't get me wrong, I love Smart but his on-court play is replaceable.

Porzingis is a 7'3' rim protector who can shoot 3s and was also one of the most effective post-up players in the league -- something we had literally none of. We can play 5-out OR 4-out with him on the court. He was also good defensively according to the metrics -- much better than people think.

He's not going to be asked to be the #1 player. But putting him on the court will all the other weapons will make the Celtics extremely dangerous.

I'd like to add a solid PG. CP3 is the dream but probably a pipe dream. I doubt Stevens goes into the season without adding someone else. He can still try to get something in a sign-and-trade for Grant Williams.

You don't avoid doing a deal like this just because you also need something else -- something, I might add, that's easier to get than a guy literally nicknamed the Unicorn.
 
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nomar said:
I still like this a lot.

A big problem was the lack of a true PG and Smart was part of that problem. Like Brogdon and White, he's more of a combo guard. Perhaps he was the best passer but not by much. He also played out of control and took more ill-advised shots than any player I've seen since Toine retired.

Don't get me wrong, I love Smart but his on-court play is replaceable.

Porzingis is a 7'3' rim protector who can shoot 3s and was also one of the most effective post-up players in the league -- something we had literally none of. We can play 5-out OR 4-out with him on the court. He was also good defensively according to the metrics -- much better than people think.

He's not going to be asked to be the #1 player. But putting him on the court will all the other weapons will make the Celtics extremely dangerous.

I'd like to add a solid PG. CP3 is the dream but probably a pipe dream. I doubt Stevens goes into the season without adding someone else. He can still try to get something in a sign-and-trade for Grant Williams.

You don't avoid doing a deal like this just because you also need something else -- something, I might add, that's easier to get than a guy literally nicknamed the Unicorn.
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CP3 is getting traded to the Warriors.

I don’t understand all the “true point guard” comments. Most of the league runs offense that does not feature a point guard, including Boston. The last thing this team needs is a ball dominant guard.

Porzingas is what they needed. A primary scoring option that doesn’t operate from the perimeter almost all the time. KP can shoot but he’s good in the post and a strong post defender.
 
HuskyHawk said:
CP3 is getting traded to the Warriors.

I don’t understand all the “true point guard” comments. Most of the league runs offense that does not feature a point guard, including Boston. The last thing this team needs is a ball dominant guard.

Porzingas is what they needed. A primary scoring option that doesn’t operate from the perimeter almost all the time. KP can shoot but he’s good in the post and a strong post defender.
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I think every title team has someone who’s main job is to facilitate. Whether they’re the PG or not.

I say facilitate because of Cavs, Warriors, Nuggets. Lebron, Draymond, and Jokic. Bostons needs someone to make sure all that scoring talent eats properly. Doesn’t even need to be anyone crazy. Could be Kyle Lowry.
 
HuskyWarrior611 said:
I think every title team has someone who’s main job is to facilitate. Whether they’re the PG or not.

I say facilitate because of Cavs, Warriors, Nuggets. Lebron, Draymond, and Jokic. Bostons needs someone to make sure all that scoring talent eats properly. Doesn’t even need to be anyone crazy. Could be Kyle Lowry.
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I agree that the Celtics now need someone whose first instinct is to move the ball to get the whole team making the extra pass.

I like the trade. They simply had to trade someone, would have rather it be Brogdon (injury prone) but Smart 2nd choice. Celtics as constructed were good enough to win conference but not NBA finals. The need for another big was #1 by far as 37yr old Al Horford simply cannot be your ONE reliable frontcourt player. KP had a great year last year, but have to temper enthusiasm as pairing him with oft injured Time Lord almost guarantees someone is hurt come playoff time.

Be very interesting to see what happens with Bucks free agents, if they lose either Middleton or Lopez Boston becomes favorite next year in east & Philly probably #2.
 
Dogdeacon said:
I agree that the Celtics now need someone whose first instinct is to move the ball to get the whole team making the extra pass.

I like the trade. They simply had to trade someone, would have rather it be Brogdon (injury prone) but Smart 2nd choice. Celtics as constructed were good enough to win conference but not NBA finals. The need for another big was #1 by far as 37yr old Al Horford simply cannot be your ONE reliable frontcourt player. KP had a great year last year, but have to temper enthusiasm as pairing him with oft injured Time Lord almost guarantees someone is hurt come playoff time.

Be very interesting to see what happens with Bucks free agents, if they lose either Middleton or Lopez Boston becomes favorite next year in east & Philly probably #2.
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Definitely agree. I think they’re better than Milwaukee and Philly as is unless one of them make a major splash.

If Miami gets Dame they automatically catapult to the main contenders with Boston.
 
Dogdeacon said:
I agree that the Celtics now need someone whose first instinct is to move the ball to get the whole team making the extra pass.

I like the trade. They simply had to trade someone, would have rather it be Brogdon (injury prone) but Smart 2nd choice. Celtics as constructed were good enough to win conference but not NBA finals. The need for another big was #1 by far as 37yr old Al Horford simply cannot be your ONE reliable frontcourt player. KP had a great year last year, but have to temper enthusiasm as pairing him with oft injured Time Lord almost guarantees someone is hurt come playoff time.

Be very interesting to see what happens with Bucks free agents, if they lose either Middleton or Lopez Boston becomes favorite next year in east & Philly probably #2.
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I get the ball movement thing, but the team was top 5, I think, in assists. They did move the ball all year long. It was very efficient offense with a lot of ball movement, lots of passing. The problem was the Miami knew exactly how to combat what they did and they didn't have an outlet that could score except via 3s or the drive. They had no P&R game at all. So they got frustrated and reverted to ISO ball. They were good enough to nearly win that way. Porzingas is designed to prevent that reversion to ISO ball from happening again. The inside scoring and P&R game would thrive against that Miami D.

Curious to see what happens next. Grant made a comment that he's aware the new CBA means he will make less than he would have before.
 
I love Smart out. Addition by subtraction. They won't miss him.
 
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HuskyHawk said:
I get the ball movement thing, but the team was top 5, I think, in assists. They did move the ball all year long. It was very efficient offense with a lot of ball movement, lots of passing. The problem was the Miami knew exactly how to combat what they did and they didn't have an outlet that could score except via 3s or the drive. They had no P&R game at all. So they got frustrated and reverted to ISO ball. They were good enough to nearly win that way. Porzingas is designed to prevent that reversion to ISO ball from happening again. The inside scoring and P&R game would thrive against that Miami D.

Curious to see what happens next. Grant made a comment that he's aware the new CBA means he will make less than he would have before.
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All true (Celts were #7 in regular season assists at 26.7pg), though in playoffs they also underachieved against the Hawks and to a lesser extent vs the 76ers. The offense & system wasn't diversified enough to change on the fly in playoffs. They were also ranked 7th in playoff assist rate dropping down to 24.2pg and obviously 7/16 is middle of road.
Some of that is fixed by new assistants. And 100% agree some of that is fixed by Porzingis' P&R abilities and inside presence/effectiveness on post-ups.

My point though is they just lost leading assist player (6.3 for Smart) and many of the team's players are shot first and mentality-wise primarily score first types. Tatum, Brown and Porzingis are kind of ball stoppers.
Shot First: Porzingis, Tatum (getting better at passing when needs to), Brown, Brogdon
Neutral: Horford, RWilliams, GWilliams
Pass First: White
So just might need another player on the roster to make passing more infectious.
 
Dogdeacon said:
All true (Celts were #7 in regular season assists at 26.7pg), though in playoffs they also underachieved against the Hawks and to a lesser extent vs the 76ers. The offense & system wasn't diversified enough to change on the fly in playoffs. They were also ranked 7th in playoff assist rate dropping down to 24.2pg and obviously 7/16 is middle of road.
Some of that is fixed by new assistants. And 100% agree some of that is fixed by Porzingis' P&R abilities and inside presence/effectiveness on post-ups.

My point though is they just lost leading assist player (6.3 for Smart) and many of the team's players are shot first and mentality-wise primarily score first types. Tatum, Brown and Porzingis are kind of ball stoppers.
Shot First: Porzingis, Tatum (getting better at passing when needs to), Brown, Brogdon
Neutral: Horford, RWilliams, GWilliams
Pass First: White
So just might need another player on the roster to make passing more infectious.
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Agree with you they need facilitators. Including Grant as neutral is a stretch, he may be the biggest ball stopper on the team. Ultimately, Tatum needs to be even better (he got much better) and Brown has to start passing the ball in situations other than drive and dish to bigs. He's pretty good at that, but only passes because he gets doubled.

I expect Pritchard to play more minutes, he moves the ball. Brogdan is a PG who played almost exclusively as a shooting guard last year. I'm curious to see what happens if he plays with no White or Smart on the court. I think the offense needs some tweaks, I just don't think an old school "point guard" is the answer. Ultimately they play through Tatum and he just has to get better at making everyone else better, as does Brown.
 
This is awesome. Fixes Celtics longstanding need for a pass first PG, the succession of guards that have played with Tatum & Brown have ALL been score first. Plus gets super spicy with Holiday looking for revenge on Bucks, seems like the Celtics more often have guys seeking vengeance on them vs a Celtic out to punish team that traded him.

So now 'just' have the bigs problem. oft injured Porzingis, 37yrold Horford, & oft injured Time Lord wasn't exactly the most staunch front line. Now its thinner & a lot older. Need someone off the waiver wire or a midseason pickup

Even though there's a role for PPritchard, it is less than it would have been with oft injured Malcom Brogdon = he is the trade bait for a reliable defensive/rebounding C/F.
 
Dogdeacon said:
This is awesome. Fixes Celtics longstanding need for a pass first PG, the succession of guards that have played with Tatum & Brown have ALL been score first. Plus gets super spicy with Holiday looking for revenge on Bucks, seems like the Celtics more often have guys seeking vengeance on them vs a Celtic out to punish team that traded him.

So now 'just' have the bigs problem. oft injured Porzingis, 37yrold Horford, & oft injured Time Lord wasn't exactly the most staunch front line. Now its thinner & a lot older. Need someone off the waiver wire or a midseason pickup

Even though there's a role for PPritchard, it is less than it would have been with oft injured Malcom Brogdon = he is the trade bait for a reliable defensive/rebounding C/F.
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The player swap is fine. On the C situation, Brad is trying to bring back Theis. The part of the trade I hate are the two first round picks. Feels like a massive over-pay for Holliday. Especially since he's a two-year rental. Just a horrible trade from a long term perspective.
 
HuskyHawk said:
The part of the trade I hate are the two first round picks. Feels like a massive over-pay for Holliday.
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Picks come and go these days. The C's got something for pretty much nothing.
 
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