Plead Guilty or Not Guilty?

[Hey Adrien!]

Now that I have your attention...

On Friday, I was pulled over on I-84 E going 79 on a stretch of the road just west of Newburgh, NY where the speed limit switches from 65 to 55.

I was driving along with traffic, staying on the left lane, but not passing anyone on the right lane. Literally, just bad luck: I guess, the cop could have pulled over his pick of 50 other cars that passed him at the same speed or faster within the 30 seconds the radar got me.

Anywho, it's been a while since my last ticket. Should I simply plead guilty and accept the fine/upcharge of car insurance, etc, or should I feel lucky by pleading not guilty and seeing what happens?

 

[HuskyHawk]

Yeah, YOU'RE the guy who can safely operate a vehicle at 80.

When someone is doing 65 and you come up on them at 80+ you're significantly reducing the time that driver has to make a decision.

Not everyone's vehicle is capable of that speed, and it's quite possible yours won't be one day. Please don't take this as an overall character judgment because behind the windshield brings out the Hide in people, but at 80 you're acting like a complete Toolbox.

80 isn't that fast. There aren't any modern vehicles that can't handle 80. This isn't 1970 when most cars had drum brakes, bias ply tires, tie-rod steering and lacked independent rear suspensions. The limits are human or traffic congestion based, not based on the vehicle at that speed. At rush hour in suburban Boston 80 is about the normal left lane speed. A modern car is rock solid stable at 80, and most are capable of much more than that.

Now human limitations are real, as are congestion related risks. Speed is an issue when it varies too much from those around you, when there isn't room/time to stop or when your own reaction times or vision makes it unsafe.

 

[HuskyHawk]

My last ticket came in France 4 years ago (they mailed it to me). They changed the speed limit constantly on a given road. The Mercedes E class we rented (no extra cost) felt the same no matter how fast you went. If it wasn't for the head's up display I probably would have had several more tickets. I think the fine was relatively small, like 40 euro, so I just paid it.

 

[Magic32]

What was your explanation?

I had been driving behind a motorcycle and car for several miles that were having some sort of road rage incident. Motorcycle was in front in middle lane but kept swerving to prevent the car from passing. They would go to left lane and back to center at least 1/2 dozen times. There was a freight truck in right. We were traveling between 55-75 as motorcycle also changed speeds. Eventually the car shifted right and motorcycle went to block and I passed in left to get by them both and slowed back down as I caught traffic but that is when trooper pulled me over. I admitted I was exceeding the speed limit but denied traveling 85 MPH because I was just trying to get by a potential incident. He wanted none of it.

 

[Waquoit]

80 isn't that fast. There aren't any modern vehicles that can't handle 80.

It's the modern drivers that can't handle it. They get too close, going too fast. And if you use your brakes on the highway, you're doing it wrong.

 

[Umami Zen]

If this works, I love this idea. Much rather shell out $250 to the Husky Ticket Project than to NY State.

If you're inclined to make a charitable donation .. Many different charities benefiting first responder/family survivor of line-of-duty deaths in NY State.. For example..NY ST Troopers Foundation (NYSTF)..First Responders Children's Foundation. .C.O.P.S.-- Concerns of Police Survivors (family survivors)..Fallen Police Officers and Firefighters.. Maybe a 100 Club affiliate in Orange County (as there is in CT).. Just food for thought..

 

[Dream Jobbed 2.0]

Got plucked on 6 in Andover going 52 where the speed limit is anywhere from 40 to 60 on a given stretch. Sucks

 

[husky429]

80 isn't that fast. There aren't any modern vehicles that can't handle 80.

I'd like to introduce you to my POS 2005 Wrangler. I can get her up to 70 if I'm going downhill and don't have to accelerate as much. Otherwise I'm maxing out at 60 before I shake enough to make you vomit

 

[superjohn]

I love that everyone blatantly ignores the posted speed limits, then whines when they get caught and spends all this time trying to cheat their way out of paying for it.

You wanna dance? You pay the fiddler.

They're pretty much impossible to find on a lot of roads and when they drop from a reasonable limit to 55 on major highways it's understandable people have no idea they are far above the limit. The flow of traffic is never going the speed limit.

Where I live the speed limit is 25 mph in some spots on the major north south roads in the city and they pop you with speed cameras for going 6 mph over the speed limit in those spots. People are honking at you if you drive 25 or less on the main roads and it causes accidents. It has zero to do with public safety.

 

[HuskyHawk]

I'd like to introduce you to my POS 2005 Wrangler. I can get her up to 70 if I'm going downhill and don't have to accelerate as much. Otherwise I'm maxing out at 60 before I shake enough to make you vomit

You don't know how close I came to saying "except for a Wrangler". I tested a brand new one (JKU), with the better steering system, and it still wouldn't go in a straight line on the highway. It could do 80, but it couldn't even do 65 in a straight line without constant steering adjustment. Must be fatiguing as hell to drive.

My 1996 Ford Contour SE (admittedly really a European Mondeo) cruised effortlessly at 100mph on my cross country return from CA to New England. And in Nevada, Utah and Wyoming, even 100 was boring.

 

[HuskyHawk]

It's the modern drivers that can't handle it. They get too close, going too fast. And if you use your brakes on the highway, you're doing it wrong.

On that I agree. I avoid anybody braking or following too close at 70+. In some ways the cars are too good (except for a Wrangler). Plus I still see people staring at their phones at highway speeds.

 

[husky429]

You don't know how close I came to saying "except for a Wrangler". I tested a brand new one (JKU), with the better steering system, and it still wouldn't go in a straight line on the highway. It could do 80, but it couldn't even do 65 in a straight line without constant steering adjustment. Must be fatiguing as hell to drive.

My 1996 Ford Contour SE (admittedly really a European Mondeo) cruised effortlessly at 100mph on my cross country return from CA to New England. And in Nevada, Utah and Wyoming, even 100 was boring.

I don't use it as a commuter any more, but I doubt I'd buy one again. I got it for something like 8k from my aunt when it had 77k miles. Hard to say no. It was her mid-life crissi car and she realized pretty quickly she hated it.

Despite the shakes, it has actually been a fantastic car for me. I'm pretty sure I'm on 240k miles and have really only had to do routine maintenance. Clutch was the only thing I couldn't do myself.

 

[HooperScooper]

Yeah, YOU'RE the guy who can safely operate a vehicle at 80.

When someone is doing 65 and you come up on them at 80+ you're significantly reducing the time that driver has to make a decision.

Not everyone's vehicle is capable of that speed, and it's quite possible yours won't be one day. Please don't take this as an overall character judgment because behind the windshield brings out the Hide in people, but at 80 you're acting like a complete Toolbox.

I get a new BMW every 3 years so trust me, it is made to stop and handle at 80 mph and has all kinds of safety features that help. Is it more dangerous than going 65 mph? Yeah it probably is. Does anyone drive at 65 mph any more on the highway? On the Mass Pike you can't even drive in the left lane going under 80 mph because everyone is trying to pass you.

Going 80 mph in my car feels like going 50. Next time you're near Boston stop by and I'll let you test drive it. I'd argue that going 80 mph in new sports cars is safer than going 55 mph in cars 25+ years ago. There's a reason that most rural states have speed limits of 70 or 75 mph. Because they've determined it's still safe.

I think you should save the Toolbox comment for the people who weave in and out of traffic with no signal at 100+ mph. Which I see almost every day. I don't do that.

 

[HooperScooper]

I once had a state trooper tell me that as long as you keep it under 80 no one will bother you.

I got pulled over once on I-395 in CT for going 82 mph. The trooper told me he doesn't pull anyone over for going less than 80. Instead of a speeding ticket gave me a ticket for "not following posted signs", or something like that since he said it was only $100 and wouldn't put points on my insurance. I gladly paid the $100.

 

[UConnRock]

Be happy you aren't in some European countries. Speeding tickets based on income or even net worth.

Here's Why A Dude From Sweden Received A $1 Million Speeding Ticket

Despite Europe having the famous German Autobahn, that doesn’t mean other parts of the continent don’t levy some hefty fines for speeding.

www.hotcars.com

 

[husky429]

Be happy you aren't in some European countries. Speeding tickets based on income or even net worth.

Here's Why A Dude From Sweden Received A $1 Million Speeding Ticket

Despite Europe having the famous German Autobahn, that doesn’t mean other parts of the continent don’t levy some hefty fines for speeding.

www.hotcars.com

Europe has a much better system for assigning fines.

 

[TXHuskyFan]

80 isn't that fast. There aren't any modern vehicles that can't handle 80. This isn't 1970 when most cars had drum brakes, bias ply tires, tie-rod steering and lacked independent rear suspensions. The limits are human or traffic congestion based, not based on the vehicle at that speed. At rush hour in suburban Boston 80 is about the normal left lane speed. A modern car is rock solid stable at 80, and most are capable of much more than that.

Now human limitations are real, as are congestion related risks. Speed is an issue when it varies too much from those around you, when there isn't room/time to stop or when your own reaction times or vision makes it unsafe.

There is a stretch of highway in Texas where the posted limit is 85. Of course everyone is going about 105, but oh well.

 

[pepband99]

If you’re that concerned about the insurance, obey the speed limit and pay better attention.

I might buy this if the limit was 1) absolute and 2) reasonable.

The whole dance around 5 over, 10 over, etc. is a racket.

Make it relatively reasonable, and charge if you’re .1 over, then we can talk.

 

[Waquoit]

I might buy this if the limit was 1) absolute and 2) reasonable.

The whole dance around 5 over, 10 over, etc. is a racket.

Make it relatively reasonable, and charge if you’re .1 over, then we can talk.

Hey pep, slow down.

 

[Zanzman]

Retired trooper once told me they set the radar 15 mph over the limit or they would be pulling eveyone over

 

[Deepster]

They're pretty much impossible to find on a lot of roads and when they drop from a reasonable limit to 55 on major highways it's understandable people have no idea they are far above the limit. The flow of traffic is never going the speed limit.

Where I live the speed limit is 25 mph in some spots on the major north south roads in the city and they pop you with speed cameras for going 6 mph over the speed limit in those spots. People are honking at you if you drive 25 or less on the main roads and it causes accidents. It has zero to do with public safety.

Disagree. It's not impossible. You're just not paying attention. And your father taught you to speed and disregard law enforcement.

 

[Deepster]

I might buy this if the limit was 1) absolute and 2) reasonable.

The whole dance around 5 over, 10 over, etc. is a racket.

Make it relatively reasonable, and charge if you’re .1 over, then we can talk.

I've never gotten a speeding ticket. I guess I'm just lucky.

 

[HuskyHawk]

There is a stretch of highway in Texas where the posted limit is 85. Of course everyone is going about 105, but oh well.

I've been on the one on the east side of Austin (Highway 130). It's also dark as hell at night. Can be a bit scary the first time you drive it when you don't know where you're going.

 

[nyhuskies13]

This really depends on your conversation with the police officer. Most people just openly admit to breaking the law in these situations. When asked, 'do you know how fast you were going' (in a 55mph), they'll respond "I think 60-62". The police officer will give you their clocked speed and they'll say they didnt realize they were going that fast. That's all the officer needs in court.

In general, NEVER talk to police, hoping it'll get you out of these situations. Conversations are recorded and as is stated thousands of times per day, anything you say can AND will be used against you in the court of law. Great lecture below I would suggest for all on exercising the 5th at all times

 

[husky429]

This really depends on your conversation with the police officer. Most people just openly admit to breaking the law in these situations. When asked, 'do you know how fast you were going' (in a 55mph), they'll respond "I think 60-62". The police officer will give you their clocked speed and they'll say they didnt realize they were going that fast. That's all the officer needs in court.

In general, NEVER talk to police, hoping it'll get you out of these situations. Conversations are recorded and as is stated thousands of times per day, anything you say can AND will be used against you in the court of law. Great lecture below I would suggest for all on exercising the 5th at all times

When a cop asks "Do you know how fast you are going," you shouldn't say "no" either. You should say "yes" and decline to give further information. Or go by wife's (a lawyer) advice and say "I do not answer questions from the police without my attorney present" and hand them your documentation so they can write the citation.

Rule #1 of defense is STFU. You can get away with murder if you just STFU and answer nothing without an attorney present. The worst kind of client for a lawyer is one who won't shut up.

 

[Icehawk]

One of the (few) good things about FL is we have Ticket Clinic (and others) that typically run $75 or so and your ticket will go away. I think they basically pay off the court in bulk - like here we'll pay you 25% of the fines in this stack but they get found not guilty.