Plead Guilty or Not Guilty? | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Plead Guilty or Not Guilty?

Hey Adrien!

Hey Adrien!

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Now that I have your attention...

On Friday, I was pulled over on I-84 E going 79 on a stretch of the road just west of Newburgh, NY where the speed limit switches from 65 to 55.

I was driving along with traffic, staying on the left lane, but not passing anyone on the right lane. Literally, just bad luck: I guess, the cop could have pulled over his pick of 50 other cars that passed him at the same speed or faster within the 30 seconds the radar got me.

Anywho, it's been a while since my last ticket. Should I simply plead guilty and accept the fine/upcharge of car insurance, etc, or should I feel lucky by pleading not guilty and seeing what happens?
 
temery said:
If your court date is changed it's likely because the officer has written several tickets, or will be in the court that day for another case. If so, don't count on the automatic dismissal. Ask that it be moved four days later (better chance the cop will be off duty).

Bring your paperwork, including the ticket, but be careful not to show it to anyone but the court, if asked. I've seen cops show up unprepared, ask the driver if he has the ticket.

Having a lawyer will usually get it knocked down. If you go without a lawyer, consider asking one who just won a case if he has time for you, and how much it would cost. Preferably one you've seen talking to the clerk and or court officers. Likely means the lawyer is there often, and friendly with court workers.

Most lawyers have several cases moved to the same date for efficiency, so lawyers sit and wait between cases. Actually, some court houses will put aside a day just for similar cases. Larger cities have courts just for traffic violations.
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It sounds like you have a lot of experience, you speed demon… or lawyer. :D
 
Plead not guilty. Go to court and try and plead I it down. You can’t admit to speeding. Make sure you can recite exactly where the cop was in relation to you and also how dense and proximate other cars were, and which cars/trucks that were around you and passed you. Look at your ticket and see if there are any notes on it regarding conditions, errors or omissions. It should also state the method of speed determination. If it doesn’t you tell the DA. It’s not recorded and you can determine if Ws don’t by pacing, VASCAR, aviation or radar. If the DA asks whether you were speeding, you can say you have no idea what speed you were traveling (unless you knew at moment when the cop clocked you - which you wouldn’t know) and you were going no faster than prevailing traffic. Be polite, not argumentative. Be perplexed as to why you were singled out given you made no lane changes or passed anybody. Most radars have an angle of aperture that limits resolution to about 40 feet wide so if there we cars next to you it could be the wrong vehicle.

My recommendation is contact the DA’s office and seek to talk to the prosecutor. They usually are decent. If he/she/it is a total jackass, tell him you want all the cop’s contemporaneous notes and the manual for the device he is used, and the last calibration record guy. Follow up with a letter demand for the information. If it isn’t delivered in time, you show up for the court date and tell the judge your story, how you were deprived of evidence or there is none, and roll the dice.
 
Fight it.

That stretch of highway has gotten many CT and out-of-state drivers. I was in the right lane going 65 when it turned 55 and was pulled over, even though I was being passed at the time. I mentioned that to the officer and he still gave me the ticket.

Came back and the fine was reduced to $50 and no points.
 
rman726 said:
It sounds like you have a lot of experience, you speed demon… or lawyer. :D
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Never even been pulled over for a moving violation. Have been to court a few times. And now that I'm retired and bored, I go to the local court (very close) a couple times a month and watch for a few hours.
 
Or, and stick with me on this, you guys could try driving within 15 miles per hour of the speed limit (10 if the speed limit is 65). I do not recall any of you being pediatric surgeons, so wherever you are going to can wait the extra 10 minutes it would take you to get there by going 68 in a 55, and not risking the ticket, instead of 80.

A lot of you are middle-aged guys whose eyesight and reactions are not what they once were, and you are just trying to change one song you don't like on your Apple Music playlist from killing someone or yourself. Speed kills in basketball, and it literally kills on the road.
 
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formerlurker said:
@Hey Adrien! read your ticket thoroughly. Mine specifically said no points for out of state and no reporting to insurance if I didn't fight it. Sounds crooked and it probably is but I was definitely speeding so paid up to be safe.
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It is crooked. I was hit with a 55 in a 26 in PA. Small street in the city and there were 3 cars in front of me. You couldn't speed if you wanted to. I was told the same by the officer. You can fight it if you want but no points if you pay for it. Another ticket going 40 in a 25 that the small town changed the speed limit over night. Cops everywhere. Well I fought it. I did my home work. I got before the judge and he and the officer talked me down to the minimum speed violation. No points, just pay and forget we didn't know each other. Saw a couple of videos made by retired law enforcement. It showed angle of the radar. I don't want to go through the whole video but bascally said the radar beam needs to hit the front of the car. Anywhere in the front. If they hit you on the side of the car it does give you a false reading. That was my presentation by going to the chalk board.= and asking questions. The court I went to had a old school desk with a shotgun leaning in the corner. Got the picture?
 
I love that everyone blatantly ignores the posted speed limits, then whines when they get caught and spends all this time trying to cheat their way out of paying for it.

You wanna dance? You pay the fiddler.
 
Hey Adrien! said:
Now that I have your attention...

On Friday, I was pulled over on I-84 E going 79 on a stretch of the road just west of Newburgh, NY where the speed limit switches from 65 to 55.

I was driving along with traffic, staying on the left lane, but not passing anyone on the right lane. Literally, just bad luck: I guess, the cop could have pulled over his pick of 50 other cars that passed him at the same speed or faster within the 30 seconds the radar got me.

Anywho, it's been a while since my last ticket. Should I simply plead guilty and accept the fine/upcharge of car insurance, etc, or should I feel lucky by pleading not guilty and seeing what happens?
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I don't know how NY works but this may help you...

5 years ago I had just got my new car and it was the first time I had ever driven something with HP. Within a week I got pulled over driving 98 on I-84. I couldve been arrested but wasn't and was issued a ticket.

I went to traffic court and said these magic words "I would like to make a charitable donation in lieu of charges"

Ticket was thrown out, its off my record like it never happened and it only cost me 300 bucks.

Edit: the prosecutor clearly did not want to be there and was sending people out the door continuously for a lesser charge that cost 30 dollars. DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION. you are pleading guilty to a moving violation. If you make a charitable donation IN LIEU OF CHARGES It will cost you more up front but will not be on your driving record.

I have done this 2x, the first time was a when I was 16 and was speeding in a construction zone. Same result, ticket thrown out and a charitable donation made in lieu of charges.
 
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TheRealKBuks said:
I don't know how NY works but this may help you...

5 years ago I had just got my new car and it was the first time I had ever driven something with HP. Within a week I got pulled over driving 98 on I-84. I couldve been arrested but wasn't and was issued a ticket.

I went to traffic court and said these magic words "I would like to make a charitable donation in lieu of charges"

Ticket was thrown out, its off my record like it never happened and it only cost me 300 bucks.

Edit: the prosecutor clearly did not want to be there and was sending people out the door continuously for a lesser charge that cost 30 dollars. DO NOT TAKE THIS OPTION. you are pleading guilty to a moving violation. If you make a charitable donation IN LIEU OF CHARGES It will cost you more up front but will not be on your driving record.

I have done this 2x, the first time was a when I was 16 and was speeding in a construction zone. Same result, ticket thrown out and a charitable donation made in lieu of charges.
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If this works, I love this idea. Much rather shell out $250 to the Husky Ticket Project than to NY State.
 
Hey Adrien! said:
If this works, I love this idea. Much rather shell out $250 to the Husky Ticket Project than to NY State.
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Unfortunately you don't get to pick the charity, and the money will likely go to NY State regardless.
 
HooperScooper said:
80 is the new 60. I can barely drive my car under 80 on the highway and when I'm going 80 it seems everyone else is going at least 85. And I don't weave and make unsafe lane changes.
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Yeah, YOU'RE the guy who can safely operate a vehicle at 80.

When someone is doing 65 and you come up on them at 80+ you're significantly reducing the time that driver has to make a decision.

Not everyone's vehicle is capable of that speed, and it's quite possible yours won't be one day. Please don't take this as an overall character judgment because behind the windshield brings out the Hide in people, but at 80 you're acting like a complete Toolbox.
 
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HooperScooper said:
80 is the new 60. I can barely drive my car under 80 on the highway and when I'm going 80 it seems everyone else is going at least 85. And I don't weave and make unsafe lane changes.
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I once had a state trooper tell me that as long as you keep it under 80 no one will bother you.
 
nelsonmuntz said:
Or, and stick with me on this, you guys could try driving within 15 miles per hour of the speed limit (10 if the speed limit is 65). I do not recall any of you being pediatric surgeons, so wherever you are going to can wait the extra 10 minutes it would take you to get there by going 68 in a 55, and not risking the ticket, instead of 80.

A lot of you are middle-aged guys whose eyesight and reactions are not what they once were, and you are just trying to change one song you don't like on your Apple Music playlist from killing someone or yourself. Speed kills in basketball, and it literally kills on the road.
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I can't wish harm on anyone.

But these guys doing 80, I sincerely hope your mothers refuse to drive the highway one day, and it's a 40+ minute drive to pick them up for holidays
 
notEwekon said:
Yeah, YOU'RE the guy who can safely operate a vehicle at 80.

When someone is doing 65 and you come up on them at 80+ you're significantly reducing the time that driver has to make a decision.

Not everyone's vehicle is capable of that speed, and it's quite possible yours won't be one day. Please don't take this as an overall character judgment because behind the windshield brings out the Hide in people, but at 80 you're acting like a complete Toolbox.
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80 isn't that fast. There aren't any modern vehicles that can't handle 80. This isn't 1970 when most cars had drum brakes, bias ply tires, tie-rod steering and lacked independent rear suspensions. The limits are human or traffic congestion based, not based on the vehicle at that speed. At rush hour in suburban Boston 80 is about the normal left lane speed. A modern car is rock solid stable at 80, and most are capable of much more than that.

Now human limitations are real, as are congestion related risks. Speed is an issue when it varies too much from those around you, when there isn't room/time to stop or when your own reaction times or vision makes it unsafe.
 
My last ticket came in France 4 years ago (they mailed it to me). They changed the speed limit constantly on a given road. The Mercedes E class we rented (no extra cost) felt the same no matter how fast you went. If it wasn't for the head's up display I probably would have had several more tickets. I think the fine was relatively small, like 40 euro, so I just paid it.
 
jibsey said:
What was your explanation?
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I had been driving behind a motorcycle and car for several miles that were having some sort of road rage incident. Motorcycle was in front in middle lane but kept swerving to prevent the car from passing. They would go to left lane and back to center at least 1/2 dozen times. There was a freight truck in right. We were traveling between 55-75 as motorcycle also changed speeds. Eventually the car shifted right and motorcycle went to block and I passed in left to get by them both and slowed back down as I caught traffic but that is when trooper pulled me over. I admitted I was exceeding the speed limit but denied traveling 85 MPH because I was just trying to get by a potential incident. He wanted none of it.
 
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Hey Adrien! said:
If this works, I love this idea. Much rather shell out $250 to the Husky Ticket Project than to NY State.
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If you're inclined to make a charitable donation .. Many different charities benefiting first responder/family survivor of line-of-duty deaths in NY State.. For example..NY ST Troopers Foundation (NYSTF)..First Responders Children's Foundation. .C.O.P.S.-- Concerns of Police Survivors (family survivors)..Fallen Police Officers and Firefighters.. Maybe a 100 Club affiliate in Orange County (as there is in CT).. Just food for thought..
 
Got plucked on 6 in Andover going 52 where the speed limit is anywhere from 40 to 60 on a given stretch. Sucks
 
Deepster said:
I love that everyone blatantly ignores the posted speed limits, then whines when they get caught and spends all this time trying to cheat their way out of paying for it.

You wanna dance? You pay the fiddler.
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They're pretty much impossible to find on a lot of roads and when they drop from a reasonable limit to 55 on major highways it's understandable people have no idea they are far above the limit. The flow of traffic is never going the speed limit.

Where I live the speed limit is 25 mph in some spots on the major north south roads in the city and they pop you with speed cameras for going 6 mph over the speed limit in those spots. People are honking at you if you drive 25 or less on the main roads and it causes accidents. It has zero to do with public safety.
 
husky429 said:
I'd like to introduce you to my POS 2005 Wrangler. I can get her up to 70 if I'm going downhill and don't have to accelerate as much. Otherwise I'm maxing out at 60 before I shake enough to make you vomit
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You don't know how close I came to saying "except for a Wrangler". I tested a brand new one (JKU), with the better steering system, and it still wouldn't go in a straight line on the highway. It could do 80, but it couldn't even do 65 in a straight line without constant steering adjustment. Must be fatiguing as hell to drive.

My 1996 Ford Contour SE (admittedly really a European Mondeo) cruised effortlessly at 100mph on my cross country return from CA to New England. And in Nevada, Utah and Wyoming, even 100 was boring.
 
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Waquoit said:
It's the modern drivers that can't handle it. They get too close, going too fast. And if you use your brakes on the highway, you're doing it wrong.
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On that I agree. I avoid anybody braking or following too close at 70+. In some ways the cars are too good (except for a Wrangler). Plus I still see people staring at their phones at highway speeds.
 
HuskyHawk said:
You don't know how close I came to saying "except for a Wrangler". I tested a brand new one (JKU), with the better steering system, and it still wouldn't go in a straight line on the highway. It could do 80, but it couldn't even do 65 in a straight line without constant steering adjustment. Must be fatiguing as hell to drive.

My 1996 Ford Contour SE (admittedly really a European Mondeo) cruised effortlessly at 100mph on my cross country return from CA to New England. And in Nevada, Utah and Wyoming, even 100 was boring.
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I don't use it as a commuter any more, but I doubt I'd buy one again. I got it for something like 8k from my aunt when it had 77k miles. Hard to say no. It was her mid-life crissi car and she realized pretty quickly she hated it.

Despite the shakes, it has actually been a fantastic car for me. I'm pretty sure I'm on 240k miles and have really only had to do routine maintenance. Clutch was the only thing I couldn't do myself.
 
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notEwekon said:
Yeah, YOU'RE the guy who can safely operate a vehicle at 80.

When someone is doing 65 and you come up on them at 80+ you're significantly reducing the time that driver has to make a decision.

Not everyone's vehicle is capable of that speed, and it's quite possible yours won't be one day. Please don't take this as an overall character judgment because behind the windshield brings out the Hide in people, but at 80 you're acting like a complete Toolbox.
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I get a new BMW every 3 years so trust me, it is made to stop and handle at 80 mph and has all kinds of safety features that help. Is it more dangerous than going 65 mph? Yeah it probably is. Does anyone drive at 65 mph any more on the highway? On the Mass Pike you can't even drive in the left lane going under 80 mph because everyone is trying to pass you.

Going 80 mph in my car feels like going 50. Next time you're near Boston stop by and I'll let you test drive it. I'd argue that going 80 mph in new sports cars is safer than going 55 mph in cars 25+ years ago. There's a reason that most rural states have speed limits of 70 or 75 mph. Because they've determined it's still safe.

I think you should save the Toolbox comment for the people who weave in and out of traffic with no signal at 100+ mph. Which I see almost every day. I don't do that.
 
TheRealKBuks said:
I once had a state trooper tell me that as long as you keep it under 80 no one will bother you.
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I got pulled over once on I-395 in CT for going 82 mph. The trooper told me he doesn't pull anyone over for going less than 80. Instead of a speeding ticket gave me a ticket for "not following posted signs", or something like that since he said it was only $100 and wouldn't put points on my insurance. I gladly paid the $100.
 
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