Players or the system? | The Boneyard

Players or the system?

Mdoggie

Mdoggie

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What makes UConn great year after year? Your thoughts? We’ve seen great players at other universities over the years yet they have had limited success. UConn remains the standard.
 
MDoggie said:
What makes UConn great year after year? Your thoughts?
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The right mix players willing to work with the right coach at the right time.

I think if you swapped Geno and Dawn for a year and left their players, neither would have the success they had at UConn and SC, respectively, despite both having recruited many of them.
 
Geno has a Winning System. His system is team orientated and he does not tolerate mediocrity. Yes you need the players. Those players have to be coachable, have the right attitiude, the want to, and work ethic. Nothing is easy. If it were easy everybody would be great. You cant teach a dud to be a stud. Geno has a process of breaking down the bad habits and rebuilding the the right habits putting the Fun back in the fundementals. Look at all the former UConn players who play pro ball many of which werent AA's or starters. Geno's program is one of personal growth with a basketball mentallity attached to it.
 
Diamond Deshields. There was some pretty good evidence that she would come to UConn. A big surprise to most that she ended up at UNC and it was thought help recruited a bunch of really good teammates only to leave for Tenn shortly there after. Something happened as to why she didnt come and that mystified me. I thought she was a lock for UConn. What that something was we may never know.
 
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Tonyc said:
Diamond Deshields. There was some pretty good evidence that she would come to UConn. A big surprise to most that she ended up at UNC and it was thought help recruited a bunch of really good teammates only to leave for Tenn shortly there after. Something happened as to why she didnt come and that mystified me. I thought she was a lock for UConn. What that something was we may never know.
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Maybe she wasn’t a system type player?
 
I don't think it's an either/or. To my mind, the primary reason for UConn's success is that they have built a culture of team first. Every player, regardless of their greatness, buys into the idea that they exist to make the team successful, as opposed to the team being a vehicle for individual success. And every detail of the program reinforces this one idea (no names of uniform, standing in order for the anthem, everyone touching the lines at practice, etc.) Granted, there are lots of reasons for UConn's success (some mentioned already), but to me, this is the constant that holds true through the years. Team.
 
I don't disagree with any of the previous posts - the system, recruiting good players that fit the system and are coachable etc. - but somehow that doesn't explain it all. How did Anson Dorrence dominate women's college soccer so long? Why has Belichick been so successful with the Pats. It doesn't seem reasonable that the very successful coaches have some secret coaching methods; others coaches can and do see what other coaches do. It is a mystery to me. Do Geno and Bill and Anson have a particular force of will that results in consistent excellence? Why not Tara or many other coaches who recruit well and have systems that produce many wins but not dynasties? One day Geno will retire presumably his replacement will try to keep the same system and philosophy. We'll see how that plays out.
 
I think it is the players. WCBB generally has a very steep drop in talent once you get past that top 10-15 players in each class. Very rarely is UCONN having to recruit foundation pieces below where that drop starts. It is not a coincidence that the UCONN system begins to lag when UCONN is forced to rely on 1 or more starter(s) or contributor that were recruited below this level.

Mechelle Voepel captured 5 factors in this 2017 Article including the one @JonathanXIV referenced (culture).

www.espn.com

How has UConn been so good for so long?

The Huskies own the two longest winning streaks in NCAA hoops history. They have Hall of Fame-level coaching and top-level recruiting. But what five other factors go into their sustained success?
www.espn.com www.espn.com
.
 
Tonyc said:
Diamond Deshields. There was some pretty good evidence that she would come to UConn. A big surprise to most that she ended up at UNC and it was thought help recruited a bunch of really good teammates only to leave for Tenn shortly there after. Something happened as to why she didnt come and that mystified me. I thought she was a lock for UConn. What that something was we may never know.
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In an interview, after she had turned pro, Diamond blamed it on Uconn being too far from home. “It was too far( from home in Geogia). A lot of friends were there at the time and I know how hard of a coach he is. I knew I couldn’t have that phone call,”’ Mom, can you come up?’ I would probably have lost my mind. I loved him. I really did. If Uconn were a bit closer, I probably would have been there, honestly. We still have a good relationship. We see each other, we speak, we smile, we laugh.”
 
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It’s the system that Geno and CD developed that every player either buys into or doesn’t play/leaves. Players all have potential to be great (some have more physical gifts that help them), but Geno, CD, and co. are the best at bringing that potential to fruition. Look at Breanna Stewart—a great player as a freshmen, but nowhere near her full potential. Nowhere near where she ended up as a senior. It’s a testament to the willingness to grow that players must have. Both Geno and his former players say that when he sees potential in someone he does everything in his power to bring it out. Honestly though I doubt UConn has the sustained success they’ve had without the combination of Geno and his people-person attitude, CD and her ability to be the authoritative figure, and both of their commitment to only accepting maximum effort and excellence. There are a number of times that players and coaches have referenced how incredibly demanding the practices were and how it’s not a matter of just going through the motions until the players get it right, but rather giving 100% until they can’t get it wrong. Not many other programs can say they have all of the above and the couple of others that could/can usually don’t sustain it very long.
 
Somet hings just can't be explained. If you try to do so I think you ruin the moment and the magic. Sometimes its just serendipity. If that assistant coach at UVA stayed and became head coach at that magnificent school would UVA have won 11 titles? Who knows. Peanut butter on bread is good. Jelly is ok on bread..but peanut butter and jelly together? Nirvana.
 
Although things were quite different back when and UCLA had less competition (as did UConn in the early 2000s), John Wooden wasn’t the only coach with great players, granted he had some of the very best. Wooden did what Geno has done. He got a bunch of great players to drop their egos and think team first. He stresses defense and had his studs buy in. He had top point guard play to mesh the team. It’s definitely both players and the system. The question is can all systems attract the talent needed to be a great team. Could UConn’s most talented teams win an NC in say a Harry Perrata system and/or would he adopt a system to fit those players and get them to perform as Geno did. Maybe having top coaches switch teams in mid season would be interesting.
 
CocoHusky said:
I think it is the players. WCBB generally has a very steep drop in talent once you get past that top 10-15 players in each class. Very rarely is UCONN having to recruit foundation pieces below where that drop starts. It is not a coincidence that the UCONN system begins to lag when UCONN is forced to rely on 1 or more starter(s) or contributor that were recruited below this level.

Mechelle Voepel captured 5 factors in this 2017 Article including the one @JonathanXIV referenced (culture).

www.espn.com

How has UConn been so good for so long?

The Huskies own the two longest winning streaks in NCAA hoops history. They have Hall of Fame-level coaching and top-level recruiting. But what five other factors go into their sustained success?
www.espn.com www.espn.com
.
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I agree. To win the most championships at an elite level you must have the most elite players. The number of elite pros from UConn seem to bear that out. And that's not to say Auriemma and his staff haven't developed that talent. They have. I'd say that one thing they do collectively is that when deciding which kids to really go after, they're able to project which ones actually have elite potential and work ethic as opposed to just HS flash and dominance. They can't get them all but they definitely know which ones they really want.
 
Geno is a 'one of a kind' and I have come to never question any of his moves, even when he supposedly 'loses it'...99% of the time there is a reason for any of his basketball actions. Time does eventually catch up, as I know, but apparently his basketball skills (there are many more internal things besides the game itself) are intact. He is the master....just speak to most of his former players Let's have a season!
 
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I think Calhoun and Auriemma were very similar in their coaching excellence, given that there are more roadblocks on the men’s side. However, an important difference between the two is Calhoun took chances, too many in my view, on the players he recruited. I believe with his track record of success Calhoun believed he could mold any player, but that was not true.

I bring that up to make the point that Auriemma deviates very little from the type of player he wants to recruit, character wise. It sometimes gives the BY heart palpitations when there are not enough bigs with both the talent and character he wants, but that nevertheless is a big reason why he maintains such steady success.

Like many others already said, it’s recruiting players to fit the system and wavering little from that ideal.
 
When you are recruited into a perennial championship program, your attitude is just that—a champion. So you listen to the coach because he’s done it over and over and then you do the work because you see how putting in the work makes you part of that long line of greatness. No one comes to UConn expecting to lose even one game.
 
Does Geno get a vote on this? Because he went on the record a few years ago. Tried to find it and failed. Part of this is Geno acting modest to be sure. However he unequivocally came down on you have to have the players. But he'd also say that all of those players required a lot of coaching to get where they were as seniors.
 
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The rise of the program shows the strength of the system. The "down" years shows the value of having the right players in that system, which results in the "up" years.
 
southofnorth said:
It’s the system that Geno and CD developed that every player either buys into or doesn’t play/leaves. Players all have potential to be great (some have more physical gifts that help them), but Geno, CD, and co. are the best at bringing that potential to fruition. Look at Breanna Stewart—a great player as a freshmen, but nowhere near her full potential. Nowhere near where she ended up as a senior. It’s a testament to the willingness to grow that players must have. Both Geno and his former players say that when he sees potential in someone he does everything in his power to bring it out. Honestly though I doubt UConn has the sustained success they’ve had without the combination of Geno and his people-person attitude, CD and her ability to be the authoritative figure, and both of their commitment to only accepting maximum effort and excellence. There are a number of times that players and coaches have referenced how incredibly demanding the practices were and how it’s not a matter of just going through the motions until the players get it right, but rather giving 100% until they can’t get it wrong. Not many other programs can say they have all of the above and the couple of others that could/can usually don’t sustain it very long.
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@southofnorth mentions that one of the reasons for UConn's sustain Ed success is the combination of Geno the people person and CD the disciplinarian. I have always seen it the opposite way, with Geno the one who gets in faces and pushes buttons while DC was the one to step in after Geno was done to give a pat and an encouraging words. What say you, who is the good cop and who is the bad cop in this duo?
 
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All (or the vast majority) of these answers are correct which leads me to the following conclusion. The success of our team is probably best described as the "Perfect Storm". The school decided to hire Geno. Great move. Geno brings in coaches like Cris Daily. Second great move. Geno and Cris are able to recruit great talent like Laura Lishness, Kerry Bascomb, Rebecca Lobo, Shea Ralph, and, of course, "D". Third great move. Next, they format a system of practice designed to not only teach but to strengthen and nurture their abilities. Forth great move. The school stands behind Geno and the program expands it's radio and tv base. The final addition to the storm is the fan base, as loyal (and sometimes a little too demanding) as any fan base in America. Perhaps we could still be great if any one of these elements were taken away but as a whole they provide a recipe for greatness.
 
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ju6381 said:
Yes, refer to Princeton with Pete Carril. Great system but players not good enough to compete for championships.
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Right on point Ju. I loved watching the Princeton team when any network had the courage to schedule them. The precision of their movements as a team was just so enjoyable to watch. Pete was John Wooden without the talent.
 
You have to have GOOD, DEVOTED players. I always think of Casey Stengel and the great Yankee teams of the late 1940's and 1950's. Year after year, Casey managed them to terrific records. ...........THEN, in 1962 Casey managed the Mets to the worst record in baseball history(120 losses). He didn't have the PLAYERS!
I am sure that many of you who played sports saw this happening on many different levels.
Recruiting the right players is HUGE on the college level.
 
Tonyc said:
Geno has a Winning System. His system is team orientated and he does not tolerate mediocrity. Yes you need the players. Those players have to be coachable, have the right attitiude, the want to, and work ethic. Nothing is easy. If it were easy everybody would be great. You cant teach a dud to be a stud. Geno has a process of breaking down the bad habits and rebuilding the the right habits putting the Fun back in the fundementals. Look at all the former UConn players who play pro ball many of which werent AA's or starters. Geno's program is one of personal growth with a basketball mentallity attached to it.
Expand ...

There is proven value in Geno's system. Most if not all of the coaches in the WNBA covet UConn players. THAT (and the 11 championships) is the best evidence that his system works. Most of his seniors are high first round draft choices in the W. Cheryl Reeve (Lynx head coach) says that UConn rookies coming into the league are "plug n play". They are coachable, they learn fast, and they have a winning attitude, and they come in knowing how to "read and react", because that is what Geno teaches.

Example: Crystal and Napheesa lead the Lynx to a 88-79 victory over the Atlanta Dream this evening (Aug 28). Crystal had a game high 23, Collier had a double double with 19/12. The only two UConn alums on the roster, and they're paying BIG TIME dividends. ;)

Geno's record and his former player's success at the pro level speak for themselves. If Geno's system is not all that great, why are coaches still, after all these years, requesting to attend his practices? I'll hang up and listen. :eek: One more thing, Mars Blackmon was wrong. It's NOT the shoes. ;)

 
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