Phil Nolan Gaining Weight | Page 3 | The Boneyard

Phil Nolan Gaining Weight

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Yeah, absolute freak genetics. He must be known to some degree. Did he not go on to play professionally? How did he progress beyond those first 6 months? What's this guy's name, if you don't mind? What kind of protocol did you use?

Not trying to interrogate you here.


Not really sure what's so unbelievable here -- before this spring I'd never actively targeted my lower body when lifting, but after four months of once weekly lower body workouts (squats and deadlifts), I'm up to deadlifting 400lbs... Also, I've seen enough of Sportsman's educated posts regarding weight-training to have faith in the legitimacy of his anecdote.

Since, through your own admission, you're "not an expert" in the matter, it would seemingly make the most sense not to act like one...
 
Yeah, absolute freak genetics. He must be known to some degree. Did he not go on to play professionally? How did he progress beyond those first 6 months? What's this guy's name, if you don't mind? What kind of protocol did you use?

Not trying to interrogate you here.

Since you asked for a lot of information, than my answer will be fairly long, so if anyone viewing this thread doesn't want to read about maximizing athletic performance than don't bother reading this post.

He made the progress this spring. He plans to play division 1 or division 2 football next year depending upon his scholarship options and other factors. If he were a typical recruit out of high-school with good grades he would be all set, but he is not. I do not want to go into further detail due to privacy issues.

There are multiple things that must be considered when trying to optimize athleticism through weight training. The body must be balanced in order to optimize speed and explosiveness through multiple planes of movement and the player must have a strong neuromuscular connection in order to generate a high rate of force development. Squating 1000 lbs is great, but if you can't move sub maximum weights fast, than you won't be able to run fast or jump high.

Part 1 of a plan is to balance the body by bringing up weak body parts.
When I first started working with him his quads were stronger than his hamstrings and glutes. We improved the strength of those by doing a lot of barbell hip thrusts, glute-ham raises off a pulldown cable system, zercher squats, and moderate stance dead lifts with the hands inside the feet, but not wide enough to be considered sumo. The squats were either started from the bottom position with the bar resting on the guards or off a box. These were all done with moderate or wide stance. Examples of accessory exercises to complement these would be extensions for the mid back on a swiss ball, reverse hyper extensions, and heavily weighted barbell rollouts. Other exercises were included, but these were the focus for lower body. Compound movement rep ranges were typically 1-5 reps and accessory were typically much higher. However, you must remember that it is not just about performing these exercises using any form, but performing them in a way that is tailored to the person depending upon biomechanics, previous injuries, and what on field movements they are trying to improve. There is a system to assessment of an athlete and programming for him/her, but optimizing things for an athlete is WAY more complicated than most people think and that is what is limiting many athletes from reaching their potential. Many people who are supposed to be experts simply are not experts or are not giving every athlete the individual attention that they need.

Part 2 is mental.
part A of this is convincing the person that their is no limit to their success and that they are capable of what normal people consider impossible or unbelievable. Instilling this in a person is very hard, but once done it gives them a huge edge over a "normal" person. It is not about getting a person to be outwardly cocky. These people are often times very insecure inside. What you want is the inner confidence that anything is possible and there are no limits to success.

part B is a mix of mental and physical. It involves training a persons neuromuscular system through the principles of European weight lifting. This is much more advanced than the talk about exercises and is very hard to explain in a simple way. You can read about it yourself if you are interested. It is not about gaining muscle, but how to train to recruit more muscle at the same time and to do it quickly. It is about very carefully planning out a mix of box jumps, broad jumps, short sprints, throws etc. that train the body to recruit muscle fast. If you prefer video explanations to written than search for louie simmons or joe defranco on youtube and you will find examples and to some degree explanations. The best college coaches include this into their programs. Unfortunately it is not easy to do because of NCAA limitations on practice time. Luckily I am not limited by NCAA rules.

If you want additional information, than private message me and we can talk more.
 
Not to nitpick but saturated fat isn't good for gaining lean mass, saturated fats are solid at room temp, think butter. Unsaturated are typically liquid at room temp, things like olive oil.

Sorry I hate these kind of posts too

agreed. As long as a person has enough saturated fat and cholesterol to be able to produce optimal amounts of steroidal hormones and cell membranes, than additional amounts of saturated fat are typically not needed for optimizing gains in muscle mass. If there are biochemists that see a flaw in this statement, than feel free to correct me.
 
Not really sure what's so unbelievable here -- before this spring I'd never actively targeted my lower body when lifting, but after four months of once weekly lower body workouts (squats and deadlifts), I'm up to deadlifting 400lbs... Also, I've seen enough of Sportsman's educated posts regarding weight-training to have faith in the legitimacy of his anecdote.

Since, through your own admission, you're "not an expert" in the matter, it would seemingly make the most sense not to act like one...

Well I have to admit I'm going really slow on purpose. Several months ago I decided to start over basically from scratch (150lbs) and work my way back up retooling my form as part of a general pursuit of optimal posture, and I've been purposely only adding like 5 lbs every third week. It's slow but I'm definitely at least making gains in the size and weight department even with the significantly decreased weight (I'm only back up to 205 in this progression), and I'm in no real rush.

Dude said himself the kid had crazy genes. Maybe you have really good genes too. I'm not going to say your form is f-cked, but I feel (and of course I can be wrong) that adding that much that quickly isn't the norm.

Oh but don't tell me I'm acting like an expert. I'm not saying anyone is wrong and I'm right or anything.
 
Well I have to admit I'm going really slow on purpose. Several months ago I decided to start over basically from scratch (150lbs) and work my way back up retooling my form as part of a general pursuit of optimal posture, and I've been purposely only adding like 5 lbs every third week. It's slow but I'm definitely at least making gains in the size and weight department even with the significantly decreased weight (I'm only back up to 205 in this progression), and I'm in no real rush.

Dude said himself the kid had crazy genes. Maybe you have really good genes too. I'm not going to say your form is f-cked, but I feel (and of course I can be wrong) that adding that much that quickly isn't the norm.

Oh but don't tell me I'm acting like an expert. I'm not saying anyone is wrong and I'm right or anything.


No worries -- I'm by no means an expert either. Starting out light and concentrating on your form is probably a intelligent approach -- I always start out light when warming up, and then ramp it up from there, but sometimes I do worry that I'm getting greedy when increasing weight quickly, and that my form may be suffering in the process.

Good luck with your training.
 
The way I was advised to assess whether or not my posture (and, following, DL form) is suffering is to try to sit in the corner of a wall and get my butt as deep in to the corner as I can with my legs out straight in front of me with shoulders and head against the wall. If you can't easily get your butt in there or feel your back rounding, there's your answer.
 
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The way I was advised to assess whether or not my posture (and, following, DL form) is suffering is to try to sit in the corner of a wall and get my butt as deep in to the corner as I can with my legs out straight in front of me with shoulders and head against the wall. If you can't easily get your butt in there or feel your back rounding, there's your answer.
Haha, so you are that guy at the gym.
 
hC6E512DE
 
Not to nitpick but saturated fat isn't good for gaining lean mass, saturated fats are solid at room temp, think butter. Unsaturated are typically liquid at room temp, things like olive oil.

Sorry I hate these kind of posts too

You're mistaken, dairy and other saturated fat sources are great for building lean mass, that's why old school bodybuilders drank so much milk. Polyunsaturated fats on the other hand are a disaster for muscle. What the phase of a fat at room temperature has to do with anything is beyond me. It is meaningless in the body, the body is not at room temperature and fats are transported by lipoproteins, they do not flow the body as a liquid.
 
Yeah Germanic peoples have been getting by on beef, pork and dairy for centuries and have always been known for being hearty and strong
 
You're mistaken, dairy and other saturated fat sources are great for building lean mass, that's why old school bodybuilders drank so much milk. Polyunsaturated fats on the other hand are a disaster for muscle. What the phase of a fat at room temperature has to do with anything is beyond me. It is meaningless in the body, the body is not at room temperature and fats are transported by lipoproteins, they do not flow the body as a liquid.

I only brought up the solid vs liquid to illustrate the difference between the two for imagery. It's not meaningless in the body, you've heard the term healthy fats vs unhealthy ones. Healthy fats are unsaturated as they're lower in HDL. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but would love to hear your credentials on the matter.
 
.-.
I'm 22, have been lifting consistently 3+ times a week for over a year now, am a fairly easy gainer, and there is no way I have gained more than 10 lean pounds. The way an athlete should be training in-season, combined with his being a hard gainer, I just don't see him gaining more than 5 lbs a year. Again, seeing his compound lift progression would give some kind of gauge as to how much of what he's gained is from bone and fat.


Your not 6'10 either. He is growing into his adult body and even with his slight frame I can see him at 220 lbs. by Oct. 18th and next year be at 230 or so.
 
Hope you're right. But like I've been saying ITT all along, if his 6'10 frame is so great for bulking, he's apparently still growing, and he has incredible nutrition and lifting resources, why has he gained just 13 pounds in a year?
 
You're mistaken, dairy and other saturated fat sources are great for building lean mass, that's why old school bodybuilders drank so much milk. Polyunsaturated fats on the other hand are a disaster for muscle. What the phase of a fat at room temperature has to do with anything is beyond me. It is meaningless in the body, the body is not at room temperature and fats are transported by lipoproteins, they do not flow the body as a liquid.

i think the whey and casein protein were the reasons that lots of milk led to gains in muscle mass. An excess of calories is one factor of many that has an effect on the bodies decision to build muscle. therefore, excess calories are helpful, but it didn't have to come from the fat or sugar in milk.
 
I only brought up the solid vs liquid to illustrate the difference between the two for imagery. It's not meaningless in the body, you've heard the term healthy fats vs unhealthy ones. Healthy fats are unsaturated as they're lower in HDL. I'm not claiming to be an expert, but would love to hear your credentials on the matter.

1. you are getting very confused 2. it's much more complicated, than most people think

healthy fats are typically anti inflammatory polyunsaturated omega 3 fats and neutral inflammatory fats like monounsaturated. unhealthy (in large doses) are certain types of polyunsaturated omega 6 fats (some are "good"). the important thing is to have a proper ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. the average american has a horrendous ratio. some inflammation is good, but we have way too much. Saturated fats are bad in large doses because of inflammatory factors and that they are the raw materials for cholesterol.

LDL gets caught in blood vessels and forms plaque, which can build up and clog them. HDL transports plaque that has been caught in blood vessels back to the liver for processing. LDL is bad and HDL is good.

I literally could have written 10 times more and only scratched the surface, but hopefully that clears it up.

If anyone sees an error, than feel free to point it out.
 
i think the whey and casein protein were the reasons that lots of milk led to gains in muscle mass. An excess of calories is one factor of many that has an effect on the bodies decision to build muscle. therefore, excess calories are helpful, but it didn't have to come from the fat or sugar in milk.

The fats matter also. In terms of amino acid mixture, fish is actually better than whey and casein for muscle growth. Saturated fats and cholesterol are promoters of growth, testosterone, and growth hormone; polyunsaturated fats suppress them. Also polyunsaturated fats generate lipid peroxidation in mitochondria which limits athleticism and mitochondrial health.

Excess of calories is essential, but a proper balance of calories provides the best stimulus. You don't want a diet that is too high in protein. The article said Nolan was advised to eat a plate that was "50% protein" by volume (I assume they meant meat), 25% green leafy vegetables (no calories), and 25% whatever he wanted -- that's going to be higher in protein than is optimal.

healthy fats are typically anti inflammatory polyunsaturated omega 3 fats and neutral inflammatory fats like monounsaturated. unhealthy (in large doses) are certain types of polyunsaturated omega 6 fats (some are "good"). the important thing is to have a proper ratio of omega 3 to omega 6. the average american has a horrendous ratio. some inflammation is good, but we have way too much. Saturated fats are bad in large doses because of inflammatory factors and that they are the raw materials for cholesterol.

LDL is bad and HDL is good.

This is also oversimple. All foods are inflammatory in some fashion or another, because the immune and metabolic systems co-evolved (in single celled organisms eating is the immune defense) and overlap. A postprandial inflammatory marker is a terrible way to evaluate the value of a nutrient.

Similarly, nothing is bad or good except in relation to the quantity we get or have of it. More LDL is good for us when levels are too low, bad for us when levels are too high; same with HDL; same with dietary fatty acids or other nutrients.
 
I ate chicken 3 times a day from 18 years old to 23 and while I only gained 20 pounds 6-1 180 to 6-1 200 in those 5 years my bench press went from 245 in high school to 410(the 400 club at DEkes Gym in Branford CT:) I never took a steroid even a supplement. 5 out of 7 days I ate chicken breast for breakfast lunch and dinner and I became very powerful and my body looked very good. 20 years later not so much:) but it shows that particular type of diet while rudimentary worked very very well.
 
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The fats matter also. In terms of amino acid mixture, fish is actually better than whey and casein for muscle growth. Saturated fats and cholesterol are promoters of growth, testosterone, and growth hormone; polyunsaturated fats suppress them. Also polyunsaturated fats generate lipid peroxidation in mitochondria which limits athleticism and mitochondrial health.

Excess of calories is essential, but a proper balance of calories provides the best stimulus. You don't want a diet that is too high in protein. The article said Nolan was advised to eat a plate that was "50% protein" by volume (I assume they meant meat), 25% green leafy vegetables (no calories), and 25% whatever he wanted -- that's going to be higher in protein than is optimal.



This is also oversimple. All foods are inflammatory in some fashion or another, because the immune and metabolic systems co-evolved (in single celled organisms eating is the immune defense) and overlap. A postprandial inflammatory marker is a terrible way to evaluate the value of a nutrient.

Similarly, nothing is bad or good except in relation to the quantity we get or have of it. More LDL is good for us when levels are too low, bad for us when levels are too high; same with HDL; same with dietary fatty acids or other nutrients.

I didn't say fats don't matter. Please re-read what I said. I said it doesn't matter whether you get them from milk or other foods. Clearly a balance of fats is optimal. I understand that biochemistry is extremely complicated and varies from person to person. You have to look at the overall effect of a substance and how it interacts with other things you are consuming and not just look at one thing that it does in order to figure out how much to take of it.
Whey is better for stimulating muscle growth because 2.5-3 grams of leucine absorbed quickly will significantly increase muscle protein synthesis. Fish is a good complement to whey as a slow digesting protein, but there are others that are very comparable like grass fed beef and can be consumed to compliment whey. Slow digesting protein sources like fish do not provide a quick uptick in leucine and therefore do not give a significant increase to protein synthesis, but are important for a constant stream of amino acids. If you want further explanation than read about/ listen to Scott Connely, Layne Norton or others who have done or closely analyzed the research.
In terms of the percentages of macronutrients you must realize a couple of things.
1. they consider protein to be something like steak. Clearly there is more than just protein in steak, but the dietitian is trying to keep it simple. so much less than 50% of calories come from protein.
2. you are assuming that these people have normal caloric intakes. if a 6 foot 180 lb man with 15% bodyfat eats a 2500 calorie diet and 50% is protein, than he may not be getting adequate amounts of essential fatty acids. However, Nolan and the other basketball players are most likely eating 3500-5000+ calories per day depending upon their exercise schedule. So the calories in addition to protein are much more than is needed to get adequate amounts of fat.

to address my explanation of fat and cholesterol I specifically said that this is a simplification and that even writing 10 times as much would only scratch the surface. I wasn't trying to give a lecture on biochemistry to PHD students, but simply trying to explain in a simple and easy to understand way the basics of it so he could eat healthier.

Inflammation is important because it is one of the factors that can contribute to problems like heart disease and cancer. Some would argue that it is extremely important. In fact it may be one of the most important factors in deciding how we eat.
 
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