Phil Knight calls it right at PSU

[kibblesnbits]

Icebear,

Joe followed the law is not quite accurate or sufficient.

Mandatory reporters in Pennsylvania are people that work with children. It is quite logical that they report things to others in the child support hierarchy (who are obligated to report the situation to the appropriate investigative authorities) - thereby not jeopardizing their relationship with the child or putting themselves at risk while ensuring that it is addressed. That statutory policy in no way governs the behavior of adults in other environments.

This case gives precisely the reason why non-mandated reporters have different moral obligations. In this case Paterno reported the situation to two people neither trained nor obligated by law to report the situation. And once he knew that no investigation occurred - he knew after all that no police or protective services staff came to question him or his staff as complainants or potential witnesses - why didn't he then make sure it was reported to appropriate enforcement staff. "I didn't know" is not good enough for someone in his position.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

It seems to me since some posters who do not have any inside information about what really happened when Joe Pa reported to his superiors, spew their prejudiced opinions. Here goes my also un-informed take. Joe Pa reported to the proper authorities and they threw him under the bus to protect the Holy name of Penn State. They are the ones who should be held accountable.

I love how you chastise us for spewing our prejudiced and uninformed opinions and in the very next sentence spew your own prejudiced and uninformed opinion.

Can you please tell me where JoePa went to the police? This isn't a matter of an uninformed, prejudiced opinion. This is documented in court records. When did Joe go to the police?

 

[bajapugsley]

I don't pretend to know everything about the situation, but if JoPa had ANY idea that Sandusky was molesting the boys, then he was morally, and probably legally, obligated to do something about it. IF it's true that JoPa knew, then he deserves all the vitriol and tarnishing of his record that is to come.

sadly, we may never know everything since he's gone now, and while he did great things for PSU while there, it's a huge black mark against him that will tarnish his legacy forever.

 

[JaYnYcE]

I don't pretend to know everything about the situation, but if JoPa had ANY idea that Sandusky was molesting the boys, then he was morally, and probably legally, obligated to do something about it. IF it's true that JoPa knew, then he deserves all the vitriol and tarnishing of his record that is to come.

sadly, we may never know everything since he's gone now, and while he did great things for PSU while there, it's a huge black mark against him that will tarnish his legacy forever.

Maybe to people not living in PA or non alums of Penn State.

You'd be surprised that not everyone feels the same way as some on this board does.


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[SubbaBub]

I love how you chastise us for spewing our prejudiced and uninformed opinions and in the very next sentence spew your own prejudiced and uninformed opinion.

Can you please tell me where JoePa went to the police? This isn't a matter of an uninformed, prejudiced opinion. This is documented in court records. When did Joe go to the police?

The jurisdictional structure is and was that the campus police are the state sanctioned law enforcement agency for University Park (the campus) it is essentially its own town (and larger that most towns in CT). The surrounding land is under the jurisdiction of the township.of State College and the State College police dept.

In the eyes of Pennsylvania, they are equal and distinct.

The VP indicted for perjury was the defacto police commissioner for University Park. So, the police were notified and more than once. If your standard of notification is calling 911, well, you're wrong.

And if you didn't know that the campus police were the real police, then imagine what else you might not know.

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[Jarhead_1775]

I thought he was a POS for failing to protect children when he had the opportunity. That does not change simply because he's dead. I am legally bound to report any instance of child or elder abuse that I see, else I will be arrested and charged with a crime. Alas, I don't need a law to tell me that it's the right thing to do. Simple failure to adequately protect those who could not protect themselves is horrendous. End of story.

 

[Chin Diesel]

Well, the good news is that if Joe Pa had a moral obligation to do more than he did, he is now having his day/week/eternity in court.

 

[kibblesnbits]

The VP indicted for perjury was the defacto police commissioner for University Park. So, the police were notified and more than once. If your standard of notification is calling 911, well, you're wrong.

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That is false. The VP indicted for perjury was an administrator that the police chief reported to for administrative purposes. He was not a law enforcement official by training or function. In my town the police chief reports to the first selectman - that does not make the first selectman the de facto police commissioner, just an administrator for things like budgets.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

The jurisdictional structure is and was that the campus police are the state sanctioned law enforcement agency for University Park (the campus) it is essentially its own town (and larger that most towns in CT). The surrounding land is under the jurisdiction of the township.of State College and the State College police dept.

In the eyes of Pennsylvania, they are equal and distinct.

The VP indicted for perjury was the defacto police commissioner for University Park. So, the police were notified and more than once. If your standard of notification is calling 911, well, you're wrong.

And if you didn't know that the campus police were the real police, then imagine what else you might not know.

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You are wrong. Schultz was not a law enforcement official. This is like you becoming aware of a child being raped and reporting it to the mayor of your town. Would you consider that notifying the police?

 

[SubbaBub]

I thought he was a POS for failing to protect children when he had the opportunity. That does not change simply because he's dead. I am legally bound to report any instance of child or elder abuse that I see, else I will be arrested and charged with a crime. Alas, I don't need a law to tell me that it's the right thing to do. Simple failure to adequately protect those who could not protect themselves is horrendous. End of story.

So glad you've come along to end the story. Please tell us exactly how you would have interfered with what was presumably an ongoing investigation.

On second thought, don't. A man dead of lung cancer is now apparently good news.

Lord, I hate the raging mob. Perhaps the mods should lock this thread for everybody's sanity.


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[johnhuskies95]

You guys are sorely mistaken if you think the coverage has been accurate or comprehensive. There is absolutely no evidence in play indicating anyone on staff knew anything prior to the event reported by McQueary. Pleas that people should have known are nonsense in situations of this type and statements that i would have taken action are crap.

Don't trust anything you have heard from the talking heads on ESPN, it is based only on presumption and not facts. Joe has already had McQeary confirm several aspects of his testimony in the arraignment hearings for Curley and Schultz. The grand Jury record will confirm that Joe did follow up twice with the AD, McQeary already confirmed that Joe followed up with him to check he had been contacted.

Joe did everything correctly under the PA law and more. Once passed up the chain reporters are taught to leave the situation alone. Investigators don't want people mucking up their work. As a trained mandated reporter under the PA law I can tell you that is fact. Emotions ran the initial responses absolutely stupid things were reported as fact. If you want to blame anyone blame Ray Gricar the DA who had the best evidence of anyone in the mid 90s and chose not to prosecute a case that even in losing would have warned the community.

Answer me this: Why the hell did Jerry Sandusky retire at the age of 55, when he was on track to possibly be the next head coach of Penn State? Are you insinuating that those on the staff at Penn State believed that their top assistant decided to retire simply because he wanted to hang 'em up? Sandusky made numerous references to suspicious behavior around children in his book, which came out in 2001, prior to the incident witnessed by McQeary.

Also, why on earth did JoePa allow Jerry Sandusky to bring kids to a practice in 2007, years after he had been barred from taking kids on campus?

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

That is false. The VP indicted for perjury was an administrator that the police chief reported to for administrative purposes. He was not a law enforcement official by training or function. In my town the police chief reports to the first selectman - that does not make the first selectman the de facto police commissioner, just an administrator for things like budgets.

If he didn't know that Schultz was not the police, can you imagine what else he does not know?

 

[gioff23]

This is why the law is set up in a way to protect the accused. the lynch mob has been assembled, pitchforks at the ready, and the fire set just beneath the stake. If any of us knew the facts this might be different - but we don't. The only fact we know is that we don't know. Let the process play out and let the facts surface. And then you can judge. Then again, this is the day of the internet - so, anyone w/a keyboard and a random thought, please post it - by doing so, it makes it fact.

 

[kibblesnbits]

So glad you've come along to end the story. Please tell us exactly how you would have interfered with what was presumably an ongoing investigation.

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One more time. Paterno knew there was no investigation. Among the first witnesses to be questioned are the complainants. Joe might not have been on top of things as much as he once was, but you can be absolutely sure he knew that no investigators came to question him or anyone on his staff.

 

[SubbaBub]

If he didn't know that Schultz was not the police, can you imagine what else he does not know?

A municipality can be organized in multitude of configurations. Just cause your town operates differently, doesn't make what I said incorrect. But, don't take my word for it. Ask the States Attorney who said Joe complied with the law

The reporting is not the question with regards to Joe. It was the follow up. It is a question I very much want answered. We simply don't know at this time and I won't pile on not knowing. But your mileage may vary.


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[SubbaBub]

One more time. Paterno knew there was no investigation. Among the first witnesses to be questioned are the complainants. Joe might not have been on top of things as much as he once was, but you can be absolutely sure he knew that no investigators came to question him or anyone on his staff.

The facts do not support your thesis.

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[Dann]

the real story in this thread is that isn't icebear a womens board poster that hated "winning" last year. you costed the womens team a ship! i remember some 1 told me he is a priest. is that true? if so that changed the way i read the op....

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

A municipality can be organized in multitude of configurations. Just cause your town operates differently, doesn't make what I said incorrect. But, don't take my word for it. Ask the States Attorney who said Joe complied with the law

The reporting is not the question with regards to Joe. It was the follow up. It is a question I very much want answered. We simply don't know at this time and I won't pile on not knowing. But your mileage may vary.


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Who said Joe didn't follow the law? That's never been in question and I honestly haven't heard one person say he broke the law. Heck of a strawman you built there though.

Also tired of the sanctimonious accusations by some here. This thread was started by someone praising Phil Knight for what I considered to be hideous comments. Don't blame those who disagree for responding.

FWIW, I took no joy in Paterno passing. All I believe is what Joe himself said in his last interview.....he should've done more. I really wish Joe left Sandusky in a bloody pool on the steps of the police station 10 years ago. But, he didn't. The rest, unfortunately, is history.

 

[Excalibur]

The facts do not support your thesis.

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Actually, they support neither of you, but there's more than enough circumstantial evidence to back his version of events. The best defense of Paterno appears to be that others were equally or more culpable. From my perspective, that's not enough.

Sometimes, the mob is right. This is one of those times.

 

[FASTEDDY]

It seems to me since some posters who do not have any inside information about what really happened when Joe Pa reported to his superiors, spew their prejudiced opinions. Here goes my also un-informed take. Joe Pa reported to the proper authorities and they threw him under the bus to protect the Holy name of Penn State. They are the ones who should be held accountable.

1000% AGREED!

 

[FASTEDDY]

Sigh. This again. In the 4 months since the story broke, we have almost no new information. As I said 4 months ago, the details matter and we will hopefully find out exactly who squashed or bungled the investigation. However, I believe the following to be true.

No one likes child abusers or pedophiles.
The horror these kids went through can not be understated.
The mob often needs to vent its rage at something and that something is usually a person.
The term "lawn boy" is offensive.
A lot of these most powerful persons on campus seem to get fired, and it puzzles me.
Bobby Knight was also the most powerful person on his campus, didn't help him either.
Joe as the most famous person in this story and based on what we know now is bearing a undue share of the blame because of it.
He was not the abuser.
He did not witness the abuse.
At the time of the eyewitness report, he was not in a supervisory role to the.abuser.
He was not in charge of the investigation.
He did not have organizational control over access to campus nor the removal of a tenured professor.
He was not the statutory agent required to report the accusation.
He did report the incident to said agent.
He would not have been privy to the status of the investigation, if he did ask.

So in that instance, Phil Knight is correct.

Should Joe have raised holy heck say around 2004+ when nothing happened? Probably, but I don't know what he knew or what he was told.

I hope the details come out, because as Phil said, the investigation was the villian and whomever was responsible for that should be outed. Maybe it was Joe, maybe it was some politician afraid of being connected to Second Mile, maybe it was plain old small cow town incompetence.

The man had a long list of humanitarian accomplishments and clearly many people knew him closely and loved him dearly. Before anyone feels the need to spit on his grave, I would ask you to remember that and let the due process take its course.

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Very well said and completely agree.

 

[SubbaBub]

Sometimes, the mob is right. This is one of those times.

This last statement parodies itself.

Listen, I am by no means letting Joe completely off the hook. At the very least, Joe was a highly respected community leader with a long history of supporting the development of young people. To me, his silence was odd for him and therefore suspicious. But, there were a lot of people involved and a ton of information still to come out. A bunch of scenarios of why this didn't come out are still probable. I won't repeat various thoughts from other posts.

I have many of the same questions asked here. This is a very large and far reaching scandal and some stuff certainly went down. I'd rather wait to find out before passing judgements on who knew what/when and who should have done what/when.




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[NutmegState]

Again, Sandusky being allowed to bring young boys to Penn State practices as late as 2007 seals the deal for me. That's Paterno's practice.

That's Paterno, Sandusky, and young boys standing on the sidelines at practice.

That's years after Paterno was notified by McQueary that Sandusky was doing something sexual in nature (raping) a young boy in the showers.

Sandusky is the criminal, but those who believe that Paterno, who along with McQueary, might have been the only Penn State football staff members in the know, did the right thing, are fooling themselves.

This is a man turning a blind eye to horrible crimes. This is a man allowing a criminal to walk the sidelines at practice with his prey. Children.

Joe Paterno allowed Sandusky to lure young boys to Penn State practices.

Anyone want to try and tell me that Joe Paterno had no control over who was at his practices in 2007?

 

[SubbaBub]

Again, Sandusky being allowed to bring young boys to Penn State practices as late as 2007 seals the deal for me. That's Paterno's practice.

That's Paterno, Sandusky, and young boys standing on the sidelines at practice.

That's years after Paterno was notified by McQueary that Sandusky was doing something sexual in nature (raping) a young boy in the showers.

Sandusky is the criminal, but those who believe that Paterno, who along with McQueary, might have been the only Penn State football staff members in the know, did the right thing, are fooling themselves.

This is a man turning a blind eye to horrible crimes. This is a man allowing a criminal to walk the sidelines at practice with his prey. Children.

Joe Paterno allowed Sandusky to lure young boys to Penn State practices.

Anyone want to try and tell me that Joe Paterno had no control over who was at his practices in 2007?

Those are very valid questions to which I would like an answer, I hope we find out. I think Sandusky should have been arrested the day Joe reported it. At.minimum, Joe probably should have said to Jerry, I don't think its a good idea for you to be at practice. Maybe he was told, don't mention the investigation to anyone. Maybe banning the kids from practice only hurt the kids. I have no clue. I only know that I don't know.

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[Jimmy Serrano]

Those are very valid questions to which I would like an answer, I hope we find out. I think Sandusky should have been arrested the day Joe reported it. At.minimum, Joe probably should have said to Jerry, I don't think its a good idea for you to be at practice. Maybe he was told, don't mention the investigation to anyone. Maybe banning the kids from practice only hurt the kids. I have no clue. I only know that I don't know.

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Had Joe reported it to the police, maybe that would've been possible. But the police were never notified. Do you see the distinction now?

 

[kibblesnbits]

The facts do not support your thesis.

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Really? So Joe Paterno, McQueary, et al were questioned by the police or investigators from child protective services to investigate the claims they made in their meeting with Curley/Schultz? If I was incorrect in asserting that it didn't happen I'll gladly acknowledge it. As far as I know he reported it to two guys that are arguing they had not legal requirement to notify authorities to perform an investigation. Do you have a source?

 

[SubbaBub]

Clearly, you don't. So now Joe was responsible for arresting Sandusky?

Let's be clear here, barring direct interference with the investigation you are blaming Joe for not flagging down a police cruiser and not becoming a vigilante?

Btw, I am not ruling out Joe as King of PA putting the kibosh on the investigation. I doubt it, but not ruling it out.

What do I think happened? I think the GJ report is accurate up to the second meeting McQueary had with the AD and VP. I think the President and others were informed as a matter of PR damage control. I think there may be some with financial or other connections to Second Mile that would embarrassing. I also think that the protection of the PSU brand factored in as well. I suspect those interests stopped the investigation. Who was it?
It could have been Joe, the AD, or the VP involved. Certainly the President knew and had that authority, could have been the DA, a judge, a politician or someone with connections to the Trustees. It simply could have been a series of people not courageous enough to bring down the golden goose of PSU football.

Based on the public comments by former players, coaches, and other people in the community, Sandusky was seen as kind of a creepy guy. Whether his crimes were widely known outside the context of the case is uncertain, but possible.

I believe there was a cover up, a big one likely. I just don't know who was in on it.

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[kibblesnbits]

What investigation? I think you are validating my point. To investigate you have to have qualified people looking into the matter. If it stopped with Curly, Schultz, Spanier, etc. at some administrative/political level before competent investigators spoke with the witnesses then that is a cover up, not an investigation. Now, let me see, who would have also known that it died before the complainants were questioned by professionals????

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

Let's not forget that Sandusky was investigated by authorities in 98 and resigned in 99 at a very young age for a coach. He was considered a brilliant defensive mind and had a bright future. And just like that he's out of coaching.

Paterno was the King of State College. To think he was unaware of the investigation back then.....I can't believe that. That's what makes it worse for me. If he knew of the sting in 98 and was notified by McQueary in 02.......I really don't want to believe that.

 

[superjohn]

The second Paterno didn't go to the police, the coverup started and then to see kids with Sandusky on campus for the next decade and not do anything, it's absolutely disgusting. Phil Knight is an idiot and it's disturbing to me how Penn State supporters have been acting ever since this scandal broke.