Penn State administrators lied to grand jury, failed to report sexual assault

[uconndogs]

Gotta protect this football program man......

Even if I had the time to follow this trial I could not, because it would make me homicidal. Officials of this school, including their beloved coach, had every reason to believe that children were in harms way and did not do all that could be done to protect them. Arguably, they even chose to look away. So to me the next logical question is why? And the most logical answer is that they were looking to protect the image of their almighty football program.

That culture was and probably still is absolute poison. The word shameful doesn't even begin to describe the behavior of this leadership.

 

[CL82]

No, that's the thing... I have... but equating homosexual consenting adults with kiddie rapists is absurd, offensive, and f#cking stupid.

Because they were encouraging homosexual tolerance and freedom somehow that influenced the cover up? HORSESH#T. This is a story about bad men with power and alot to lose and abused boys with no power getting raped.

Homosexuality has no part in this discussion and its offensive that this Husky68 dude would even go there...

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

I found Frank Ivy's race rant more troubling. He starts with a reasonable point regarding the efficacy of affirmative action and then drifts into race baiting.

 

[Adios]

Ever hear of Alfred Kinsey of Indiana University? Last I checked, IU is still doing well.

Crazy that we opened our new stadium against IU.

 

[Nostical]

Ever hear of Alfred Kinsey of Indiana University?

Glad to see this discussion has finally returned to football. The latest word is that Kinsey will start at tight end but may also play special teams.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

Husky68. You earn points for the length of Spackler and the over the top insanity of Smithers, but you are docked for a lack of HFD /'s and Pudge's random capital letters.

There is no possible way that was serious... right?

WTF? Don't suck me into Husky68's bigotry.

 

[nelsonmuntz]

If any program ever deserved the death penalty, it is Penn State.

 

[upstater]

Addressing only the first couple of posts and not the rest:

1. Palatine's post is weirdly old. I thought this was an old thread.

2. If you're following the trial on the specific issues addressed in this thread, you should realize that not only was the former AG and now Gov. apprised of the 1999 case, he was the one that squashed it despite the protests of PSU university police detectives. Furthermore, the person that relayed the AGs wishes to DA Gricar at the time is the current prosecutor against Sandusky. This is really a small world they have over there. Now, the current Gov. may be feeling some exposure over this, but given the statement of the original psychologist and the testimony of victim #6 absolving Sandusky, I'm not certain what they had to go on.

3. The AG claims that Schultz was withholding evidence in a secret file. The fact is, the evidence was sourced through ex-FBI director's investigation for PSU as they found computer files (emails) on a PSU server. Schultz is long retired. He doesn't have access to PSU servers. In fact, ex-President Spanier has been trying to get access but has been denied. This is purely PSU property. Are these secret files? Seems to me they are old emails recently discovered.

4. The leaks about the emails so far show that Sandusky was not reported in 2001 because Spanier said the "humane" thing to do was to avoid reporting. This decision appears to have been arrived at after PSU conducted an investigation, consulted psychologists, legal experts. That's what the leaks say. My questions: who are these psychologists, legal experts, investigators, and what ties do they have to PSU that would make them part of the cover-up? I'm not doubting that they may have indeed conspired, but they certainly put their reputations at risk, as did the psychologist in the 1999 case. A lot of people knew about this stuff in 1999 (the AG, assistant AG, DA, PSU police chief, investigators, child services). Did they all drop the ball?

5. If PSU reported Sandusky in 1999 but not in 2001 when he was no longer coach then what is the difference between the two? Can we say that when he was reported in 1999 (and was still coach) that they were less concerned with the status of the football program than in 2001 when he wasn't a coach anymore? That's what I've always wondered. What's the difference?

6. A lot of the conspiracy theories have now been undercut by the actual testimony. Earlier, people like Dan Bernstein of the Chicago Sun-Times surmised three conspiracies:

a. The rape in 2002 was hidden because PSU had just experienced multiple losing seasons and thus was afraid its program was going under. But, the revision of the dates of the rape shows that they had only one losing season, 2000, and the year before they were ranked #1 as late as November.

b. Paterno had a real estate deal with board members of the Second Mile that was closing in mid-2002, and therefore kept things quiet. The revision of the rape date shows that the dates no longer mesh for this conspiracy theory.

I'm waiting to see what these emails say, seems there may be a cover-up (Spanier saying the "humane" thing) but of course, the prosecution calling these emails "secret" gives me pause, especially since the governor himself has been mentioned as an actor in the case. There are political concerns here as well.

It would not surprise me if Spanier covered this though since the 1985 case of an emeritus professor molesting a teen in Maryland was presented to him in 2002, and when the boy-turned-man offered to send Spanier an audiotape of a phone call in which the professor admitted it, Spanier denied him and said keep your tape. Spanier was always in CYA mode. Wouldn't surprise me if he did the same thing with the Sandusky info in 2002.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It's so disgusting and horrific, the serial molestation and rape of children, preying on children with little or no family support system through a public service structure meant to HELP children like that? and the level of coverup and failure to do anything to stop it, by people with more than enough power to do something, about it, for so long....

Penn state is forever tarnished - very badly - in my opinion. Only thing that will remove that stain for me, is a complete sterilization from the BOT on down through the athletic department all the way to the custodians, and starting with new people that have never been to state college before. My opinion, that would get me to have a clean slate look at Penn State after this.

But - that I have very little to no interest in following the case anymore, and I'm not the only one. It's a big deal, upstater's breakdown is the first I've looked at this thing in a long time. I'm not the only choosing not to look, but I'm realizing that I have to, no matter how ugly it is.

That's a f9cking hard thing to do in this world where the general population has become so numb to news, images, and reports of the traditional evils......violence, sex, drugs, etc, to create a situation that actually makes people NOT want to pay attention.

I remember when the movie Die Hard came out, and the media was outraged that a movie would show the images (fake - of course) of an entire plane crashing and the deaths of so many people inside that fictitious plane. It was all over the news. Big hullaballoo, how can people let something like that happen? How can people let others make a movie showing the deaths of so many people?

Now you've got the serial rape of children and molestation, REALITY, happening for God only knows how long, right in the middle of the crown jewel in the state of pennsylvania (Penn State University) and a level of coverup and failure to act, that extends all the way up the governor of the state. How can people let THIS happen?

People need to know what happened at Penn State. This thing should be all over the news, and people shoudl be forced to watch it, no matter how disgusted they are, so that people like Sandusky, are stopped.

 

[Carl Spackler]

If any program ever deserved the death penalty, it is Penn State.

I agree. That football program should be shut down, and start from scratch with new people.

 

[upstater]

It's so disgusting and horrific, the serial molestation and rape of children, preying on children with little or no family support system through a public service structure meant to HELP children like that? and the level of coverup and failure to do anything to stop it, by people with more than enough power to do something, about it, for so long....

Penn state is forever tarnished - very badly - in my opinion. Only thing that will remove that stain for me, is a complete sterilization from the BOT on down through the athletic department all the way to the custodians, and starting with new people that have never been to state college before. My opinion, that would get me to have a clean slate look at Penn State after this.

But - that I have very little to no interest in following the case anymore, and I'm not the only one. It's a big deal, upstater's breakdown is the first I've looked at this thing in a long time. I'm not the only choosing not to look, but I'm realizing that I have to, no matter how ugly it is.

That's a f9cking hard thing to do in this world where the general population has become so numb to news, images, and reports of the traditional evils......violence, sex, drugs, etc, to create a situation that actually makes people NOT want to pay attention.

I remember when the movie Die Hard came out, and the media was outraged that a movie would show the images (fake - of course) of an entire plane crashing and the deaths of so many people inside that fictitious plane. It was all over the news. Big hullaballoo, how can people let something like that happen? How can people let others make a movie showing the deaths of so many people?

Now you've got the serial rape of children and molestation, REALITY, happening for God only knows how long, right in the middle of the crown jewel in the state of pennsylvania (Penn State University) and a level of coverup and failure to act, that extends all the way up the governor of the state. How can people let THIS happen?

People need to know what happened at Penn State. This thing should be all over the news, and people shoudl be forced to watch it, no matter how disgusted they are, so that people like Sandusky, are stopped.

You do realize the administrators in question are all gone, correct?

 

[upstater]

I agree. That football program should be shut down, and start from scratch with new people.

??????????????????

Not sure what you're getting at here. Bill O'Brien is the new coach, Paterno is dead, all the coaches save one have been fired, and he was a new hire that came on years AFTER Sandusky coached there. The old AD is gone as well and also his assistants.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Goes to show how much I've paid attention. It's a good start. I/m not changing my mind on the death penalty thing. I think that once the verdict comes down, if it's clearly demonstrated that people in position of power to stop Sandusky, didn't do it, to protect hte penn state football program - the football program should be shut down for at least a year.

SMU got the death penalty in 1987 for corruption around recruiting and promoting their football program that consisted mostly of paying players and giving them sports cars.

If it's proven in court that Penn State promoted their football program by covering up and allowing the continuing serial child rape and molestation of children ON CAMPUS IN THE LOCKER ROOM!!! Well - do I need to say more?

 

[Carl Spackler]

I don't know how anyone can walk into that locker room at Penn State and not feel sick. Do players and coaches still actually use the same locker room facility? The same showers? The entire locker room facility should be destroyed. I'm not joking. You can scrub that shower room with the most powerful solvent on God's green Earth and the stains Sandusky left won't go away.

Yes - if the same thing happened at UConn, if some coach was found raping a young boy in the locker room shower, I'd hope that people would handle it differently than what was done at Penn State, and I would not be opposed to tearing the facility down too.

I have never faced such an evil of human life, so I have no idea how I'd respond, and I hope I never do, but if I did, I hope that I would do better.

 

[Jimmy Serrano]

It is kind of ironic that our hoops program is being assaulted by the NCAA because of unallowed text messages, APR scores, and tips from player's mother's ex boyfriends........and yet the NCAA won't step in and do a damned thing about higher ups in a University covering up child rape.

 

[Jimdish255]

It is kind of ironic that our hoops program is being assaulted by the NCAA because of unallowed text messages, APR scores, and tips from player's mother's ex boyfriends........and yet the NCAA won't step in and do a damned thing about higher ups in a University covering up child rape.

Especially considering the text message limits have been eliminated. No doubt. ESPN would be calling for our scalps by now.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It is kind of ironic that our hoops program is being assaulted by the NCAA because of unallowed text messages, APR scores, and tips from player's mother's ex boyfriends........and yet the NCAA won't step in and do a damned thing about higher ups in a University covering up child rape.

My guess, is that the NCAA probably has no legal grounds to do anything as long as it remains clearly a criminal matter that happens to have occurred in the middle of the Penn State football program. But I'm pretty sure that all changes, if in a court of law, sworn testimony, current or former university officials are saying that their motives for doing what they did, was to protect the university athletic department and specifically, football program.

I think that once the verdicts are in, that's when the NCAA starts to take a real close look at things. Good God Almighty, if it's clear after this case, that one of the motives behind the length of time that passed before Sandusky was shackled for his behavior was to protect the Penn State football program and the NCAA does the equivalent of a slap on the wrist - when they shut down an entire university 25 years ago for giving players money and cars?

well, then, you might find me on the other side of the fence with the southern folks about how they feel about the NCAA as a governing structure of intercollegiate athletics.

 

[upstater]

My guess, is that the NCAA probably has no legal grounds to do anything as long as it remains clearly a criminal matter that happens to have occurred in the middle of the Penn State football program. But I'm pretty sure that all changes, if in a court of law, sworn testimony, current or former university officials are saying that their motives for doing what they did, was to protect the university athletic department and specifically, football program.

I think that once the verdicts are in, that's when the NCAA starts to take a real close look at things. Good God Almighty, if it's clear after this case, that one of the motives behind the length of time that passed before Sandusky was shackled for his behavior was to protect the Penn State football program and the NCAA does the equivalent of a slap on the wrist - when they shut down an entire university 25 years ago for giving players money and cars?

well, then, you might find me on the other side of the fence with the southern folks about how they feel about the NCAA as a governing structure of intercollegiate athletics.

It will depend on the emails that the university has found.

Until those are revealed it will be difficult since Sandusky wasn't a coach when this occurred and there is considerable question about what McQueary actually told the administrators. The trial has already had some crazy moments of inconsistency. Yesterday I wrote that I wasn't sure if the doctor he met with the night of the rape was going to testify or not, but apparently it's been revealed today that the doctor Dranov is a defense witness. We'll have even more information about what McQueary told people in the next few days. Dranov is already on record testifying during the preliminaries 7 months ago. We'll see if he contradicts his earlier testimony by backing McQueary's version.

 

[Carl Spackler]

It will depend on the emails that the university has found.

Until those are revealed it will be difficult since Sandusky wasn't a coach when this occurred and there is considerable question about what McQueary actually told the administrators. The trial has already had some crazy moments of inconsistency. Yesterday I wrote that I wasn't sure if the doctor he met with the night of the rape was going to testify or not, but apparently it's been revealed today that the doctor Dranov is a defense witness. We'll have even more information about what McQueary told people in the next few days. Dranov is already on record testifying during the preliminaries 7 months ago. We'll see if he contradicts his earlier testimony by backing McQueary's version.

Forgive me if I'm overstepping, but the tone I get from reading you, makes me concerned. You seem a little too excited about what may or may not be found in thsi case, and how it applies to the University, rather than justice being done.

If the tone I get from you, in any way, represents the average penn state follower, that makes me really worried.

I think you need to try to separate yourself, at least try to mentally, from whatever connection you've got to PSU and realize what this is. It's the trial of an accused serial child molester and rapist, that preyed on children with weak family support, through a civil service organization that he himself helped establish, who's mission it was.....was to help children with weak social support systems and used his own status as a public personality to promote itself.

That's what it is. What makes it relevant to the intercollegiate world, is that the institution, that gave the man his public status to build that organization, which he used to find his prey......appears to have had direct knowledge of what was happening, and was actively involved in covering up the activity.

The state university of pennsylvania, and any government officials of the state of PA that are proven to have obstructed the apprehension of Sandusky on a criminal matter, deserve every bit of punishment allowed, from every direction it can come from.

 

[Adios]

Death penalty won't happen. Spare yourself all the typing.

 

[Carl Spackler]

Death penalty won't happen. Spare yourself all the typing.

Agreed. I like typing though.

The NCAA made a mistake in 1987 with SMU, that they've never really recovered from. If a program did deserve such a penalty, Penn State.....IF.....Sandusky is convicted, and it's proven that University officials were motivated to obstruct by their interests in protecting the football program.....which has yet to be proven as this trial isn't over yet........IF....that all happens, Penn State would be the first university to deserve such a punishment.

The pattern of behavior at an instituion of higher learning that could allow such a thing to occur, is just to heinous.

So, death penalty? Highly doubtful.

I'll tell you what though, the NCAA is an institution that has it's own problems and battles it's fighting, and once the court case is over, if PSU officials are proven to have done what I just wrote, what the NCAA does to levy punishment will go a long way to either really strengthen itself as an organization, or really weaken itself, by giving a lot of new people, reason to join the ones that already have had enough.

A lot of IF's right now, that change to WHEN,.....when the verdict is in, and the testimony is on record.

 

[upstater]

Forgive me if I'm overstepping, but the tone I get from reading you, makes me concerned. You seem a little too excited about what may or may not be found in thsi case, and how it applies to the University, rather than justice being done.

If the tone I get from you, in any way, represents the average penn state follower, that makes me really worried.

I think you need to try to separate yourself, at least try to mentally, from whatever connection you've got to PSU and realize what this is. It's the trial of an accused serial child molester and rapist, that preyed on children with weak family support, through a civil service organization that he himself helped establish, who's mission it was.....was to help children with weak social support systems and used his own status as a public personality to promote itself.

That's what it is. What makes it relevant to the intercollegiate world, is that the institution, that gave the man his public status to build that organization, which he used to find his prey......appears to have had direct knowledge of what was happening, and was actively involved in covering up the activity.

The state university of pennsylvania, and any government officials of the state of PA that are proven to have obstructed the apprehension of Sandusky on a criminal matter, deserve every bit of punishment allowed, from every direction it can come from.

So, from my post, you see that I'm defending Sandusky? I don't see where I wrote anything like that.

The only question is what were the administrators told, and what did they do? We know they didn't do enough, and the emails probably tell that story. Whether there as a conspiracy involving real estate deals or the football program is still up in the air; we may get some confirmation of this shortly.

As for obstructing the state in the apprehension of Sandusky, I don't even think that's a question that the prosecutors are asking or interested in. The only question is one of perjury. The secret emails were recovered from PSU servers, and they are attributed to Schultz. A guy who retired years ago. I don't see how this could be labeled an obstruction since he did not have access to servers. We're not talking about his case files here. This is entirely different. The first time victim #1's allegations were investigated was in March of 2011. That's the date from which any obstruction would have commenced. Schultz gave his case files over at that time and the time that he allegedly committed perjury. But the actual emails are from 2001.

A reason that these emails weren't discovered earlier is that McQueary said the rape happened in 2002, and the prosecution was looking for emails from 2002 when the rape occurred in 2001. Undoubtedly there has been some shoddy investigative work by the AG because only now did it discover the actual possible dates of the rape, and prior to now it didn't seem to note the inconsistencies between the case files and the dates of the rape. It's been less than a few weeks since the new information came to light, and as soon as it was found, the PSU investigators handed over the emails in question. That's why this is all being revealed right now. This info should have come out many many months ago. Over a year ago in fact.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I wrote tone upstater, I think you know what I mean, you've written more than one post on this subject. Again, sorry if I overstep, but I do get concerned that the reality of this situation is going to get clouded by the culture of Penn State University that Joe Paterno built over 6 decades.

It's the trial of an accused serial child molester and rapist, that preyed on children with weak family support, through a civil service organization that he himself helped establish, who's mission it was.....was to help children with weak social support systems and used his own status as a public personality to promote itself.

There's another institution that has had it's representatives, make the same choices and do the same things that apparently the people in position of power in Pennsylvania through the state university and right to the state governor apparently have made as well, it's called the Vatican, and there's a standard out there as to what these kinds of abuse cases are going to cost.

The lawyers.....they're going to need to find a way into the deep money pockets, and in this situation it's the university. So, it's quite understandable that anyone affiliated with the university doesn't want to the school any way labeled as a responsible institution in any of this that has happened. '

My opinion, is that something akin to a death penalty imposed by the NCAA, would actually help Penn State financially if Sandusky is found guilty, and PSU is implicated as a responsible party for the lawyers to go after.

UConn has a similar situation right now with the murder of Jasper that happened on campus. How can a state university be held responsible for something like that? It's unlikely that UConn will be found liable in that terrible tragedy based on the facts and what happened, and how.

But PSU has a different issue, every incident of child sexual abuse that occured after a point in time where Penn STate officials should have known about, especially things that happened on campus - AFTER people already knew about it, I'm no lawyer, but I think that Penn State has a real chance of being the first state university to be held liable for damages in the lawsuits that are sure to come after a gulity verdict, and lawyers always look for the deep pockets.

I'm done on this for today though, there's a reason I"ve been ignoring this situation, it's too heart breaking and emotional, and plain evil.

I have a lot of respect for lawyers and the kind of mental discipline they have to develop to do their jobs right. There is no way I could stand in a courtroom and maintain any kind of detachment that would be necessary, especially in such an extreme case, and I suppose that it's not like it's some kind of varying levels of thought processes you can have when doing the lawyer job, whether it be this Sandusky trial, or defending / prosecuting a speeding ticket.

I'm going out to enjoy some fresh air and sunshine. have a nice weekend everybody, by all accounts, going to be some serious football competition going on inside the Shenkman complex by some high school ballers. Maybe get some more fresh faces for UConn football after.

 

[Adios]

SMU is working their way back up. If they make it to another conference, they'll be set.

 

[SubbaBub]

Carl, you're letting your emotions get the better of you. You don't shut down an entire university or even a football program because of the civil crimes of one person and the cover up actions of a relatively small group. You arrest/fire/or otherwise hold those responsible accountable. If institutional changes need to be made then make them as well.

It may be a single name, Penn State, but its 40,000 students, 2000 faculty, hundreds of staff. Even the FB program consists of a couple hundred students and staff who had nothing to do with this.

Two similar cases for comparison. First,USN tailhook scandal. We didn't shut down the Navy.

Second, the Baylor BB murder. This is the closest example to the PSU case I can think off, with one exception.

Baylor's BB program was directly tied to the murder (player against player) and the Head Coach actively hindered the investigation. Legit NCAA issues there.

Upstater has it right, the two things that allowed this to go on so long were the stature of Sandusky in the area (think Kobe's rape case) and the incredible small towniness of State College, where everyone, including the sitting governor, is connected through charity, political, and business dealings.

Rah-rah State U is way down the list. If the same set of facts had involved the asst swim coach in the natatorium, we wouldn't be talking about shutting down the swim team.


Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Carl Spackler]

Carl, you're letting your emotions get the better of you. You don't shut down an entire university or even a football program because of the civil crimes of one person and the cover up actions of a relatively small group. You arrest/fire/or otherwise hold those responsible accountable. If institutional changes need to be made then make them as well.

It may be a single name, Penn State, but its 40,000 students, 2000 faculty, hundreds of staff. Even the FB program consists of a couple hundred students and staff who had nothing to do with this.

Two similar cases for comparison. First,USN tailhook scandal. We didn't shut down the Navy.

Second, the Baylor BB murder. This is the closest example to the PSU case I can think off, with one exception.

Baylor's BB program was directly tied to the murder (player against player) and the Head Coach actively hindered the investigation. Legit NCAA issues there.

Upstater has it right, the two things that allowed this to go on so long were the stature of Sandusky in the area (think Kobe's rape case) and the incredible small towniness of State College, where everyone, including the sitting governor, is connected through charity, political, and business dealings.

Rah-rah State U is way down the list. If the same set of facts had involved the asst swim coach in the natatorium, we wouldn't be talking about shutting down the swim team.


Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk 2

seriously, look I"m not condoning any of the conduct of the officers that crossed lines of behavior in Vegas that summer after returning from active combat, and I guarantee that what I'm about to write is going to raise some sexist issues, but....the fella that had the idea to take a bunch of marine corps and naval aviation officers straight from the persian gulf war to Las Vegas in the middle of the summer for a debriefing after returning from tours of active combat that spring - that guy did not exercise good judgement.

You don't take guys that have been in combat and put them in close quarters with females in las vegas for debriefing. You stick those guys in a hangar somewhere with a bunch of beer on ice, and no outside world contact to cool off for awhile.

That situation is so far removed from what happened at Penn State between a pedophile adult and children - in my book.

But I agree, I have let emotion get the better of me about this.

 

[Carl Spackler]

BTW - while it was a much lower frequency/ratio - of all the sexual assault complaints that were investigated after the 35th tailhook convention in vegas, there were males that had filed complaints against drunken female officers too.

 

[upstater]

I wrote tone upstater, I think you know what I mean, you've written more than one post on this subject. Again, sorry if I overstep, but I do get concerned that the reality of this situation is going to get clouded by the culture of Penn State University that Joe Paterno built over 6 decades.

It's the trial of an accused serial child molester and rapist, that preyed on children with weak family support, through a civil service organization that he himself helped establish, who's mission it was.....was to help children with weak social support systems and used his own status as a public personality to promote itself.

There's another institution that has had it's representatives, make the same choices and do the same things that apparently the people in position of power in Pennsylvania through the state university and right to the state governor apparently have made as well, it's called the Vatican, and there's a standard out there as to what these kinds of abuse cases are going to cost.

The lawyers.....they're going to need to find a way into the deep money pockets, and in this situation it's the university. So, it's quite understandable that anyone affiliated with the university doesn't want to the school any way labeled as a responsible institution in any of this that has happened. '

My opinion, is that something akin to a death penalty imposed by the NCAA, would actually help Penn State financially if Sandusky is found guilty, and PSU is implicated as a responsible party for the lawyers to go after.

UConn has a similar situation right now with the murder of Jasper that happened on campus. How can a state university be held responsible for something like that? It's unlikely that UConn will be found liable in that terrible tragedy based on the facts and what happened, and how.

But PSU has a different issue, every incident of child sexual abuse that occured after a point in time where Penn STate officials should have known about, especially things that happened on campus - AFTER people already knew about it, I'm no lawyer, but I think that Penn State has a real chance of being the first state university to be held liable for damages in the lawsuits that are sure to come after a gulity verdict, and lawyers always look for the deep pockets.

I'm done on this for today though, there's a reason I"ve been ignoring this situation, it's too heart breaking and emotional, and plain evil.

I have a lot of respect for lawyers and the kind of mental discipline they have to develop to do their jobs right. There is no way I could stand in a courtroom and maintain any kind of detachment that would be necessary, especially in such an extreme case, and I suppose that it's not like it's some kind of varying levels of thought processes you can have when doing the lawyer job, whether it be this Sandusky trial, or defending / prosecuting a speeding ticket.

I'm going out to enjoy some fresh air and sunshine. have a nice weekend everybody, by all accounts, going to be some serious football competition going on inside the Shenkman complex by some high school ballers. Maybe get some more fresh faces for UConn football after.

For me, you're assuming too much. I want to know what McQueary said. We will know shortly. McQueary has every reason to reconstruct his own reputation. So I'm not hinging everything on his testimony as you are. On the other hand, if he's not impeached, and he may not be, I will agree with you entirely. I'm waiting for Dranov and the others.

For a long while now, I have indeed blamed McQueary. I don't see him as the fall guy.

 

[jdb50]

I still can't get over the High School coach that saw Sandusky and a youth in a clinch lying face to face on a wrestling mat. People couldn't believe their own eyes. McQueary, clearly a subordinate on the Penn State staff went to people further up the power structure chain of command. He had already talked to his father and a doctor about what he saw. He believed his own eyes. From that point what clear thinking person in a supervisory position would think to protect the name brand of the football program which would mean jepordising their lives in a criminal investigation. Remember the janitors story. I think there are alot of people down in Happy Valley that couldn't take on the power of the program and it's hold on the local population. A major penalty from the NCAA is in order when this case is over. It can't just be - Ahem, well that's over now let's go out and have a good season.

 

[upstater]

I still can't get over the High School coach that saw Sandusky and a youth in a clinch lying face to face on a wrestling mat. People couldn't believe their own eyes. McQueary, clearly a subordinate on the Penn State staff went to people further up the power structure chain of command. He had already talked to his father and a doctor about what he saw. He believed his own eyes. From that point what clear thinking person in a supervisory position would think to protect the name brand of the football program which would mean jepordising their lives in a criminal investigation. Remember the janitors story. I think there are alot of people down in Happy Valley that couldn't take on the power of the program and it's hold on the local population. A major penalty from the NCAA is in order when this case is over. It can't just be - Ahem, well that's over now let's go out and have a good season.

I'm with you if indeed he told people what he saw. But, his father and then the doctor testified that he didn't tell them what he saw. And therein lies the question of whether McQueary actually relayed what he saw or whether he is now trying to save his reputation.

 

[Carl Spackler]

I still can't get over the High School coach that saw Sandusky and a youth in a clinch lying face to face on a wrestling mat. People couldn't believe their own eyes. McQueary, clearly a subordinate on the Penn State staff went to people further up the power structure chain of command. He had already talked to his father and a doctor about what he saw. He believed his own eyes. From that point what clear thinking person in a supervisory position would think to protect the name brand of the football program which would mean jepordising their lives in a criminal investigation. Remember the janitors story. I think there are alot of people down in Happy Valley that couldn't take on the power of the program and it's hold on the local population. A major penalty from the NCAA is in order when this case is over. It can't just be - Ahem, well that's over now let's go out and have a good season.

Agreed.

Commissioned officers in the marine corps, and naval air command were court martialed and dishonorably discharged after tailhook, and admirals of the navy were done with their carreers, over stuff that if you ever went to spring weekend parties at carriage house, or further off campus to Woodhaven, or some of those apartment complexes back when the drinking age was 18......again....lines shouldn't be crossed between consent and non-consent, and when they do, punisment is necessary, but adults interacting is different than preying on children sexually.

It will be interesting to see how the NCAA handles this situation once the criminal trial is completed, and the facts of the case are on record.