Pan Am Title Game

[meyers7]

Bottom line: A lot of the US's inability to run their offense had to do with the great defense played by Canada. Kudos to them.

Well I think a lot of that had to do with the limited offense the USA had. They only had a couple of weeks to put in an offense. So they really didn't have very many sets. As soon as Canada had a couple looks at them, they knew how to guard them. Then, as we saw, it was really just a matter of USA going 1v1. Stewart and Jefferson (and Reimer for that matter) are not used to a offense where they have to go 1v1 a lot. Not really their forte. They all are used to an offense with a lot of motion that gets players open shots. They did not have that in this tournament.

 

[lne001]

They got 5th in the World Championships last year. They are the 5th best team in the world. That's pretty good.

They are ranked 1oth, right behind Belarus, and this includes their 5th place finish in the Worlds, . They were just given a good game at home by a group of college players who had a couple weeks to practice. Not my definition of a very good senior national team.

By this reasoning Zack Johnson is ranked 1st in the world because he won his latest tournament.

 

[Wbbfan1]

Canada is not one of the Elite Sr Women's Teams. However they have made great strides in their overall WBB program. This team is being slowly built to be a factor in future World Championships and Olympics. Canada may never have the quality of player that USA produces, but you can bet they will play as a team and that alone will get them some wins. They won last night because they were the better team.

They are ranked 1oth, which includes their 5th place finish in the Worlds, right behind Belarus. They were just given a good game at home by a group of college players who had a couple weeks to practice. Not my definition of a very good senior national team.

By your reasoning Zack Johnson is ranked 1st in the world because he won his latest tournament.

 

[meyers7]

Well since everybody keep asking, here were the choices for the WUG and PanAM teams.

Jillian Alleyne (Oregon)
Ameryst Alston (Ohio St)
Lexie Brown (Maryland/Duke)
Sophie Brunner (AZ St) - Pan Am
Jordin Canada (UCLA) - WUG
Alaina Coates (S. Carolina) - Pan Am
Kahleah Copper (Rutgers)
Caroline Coyer (Villanova) - Pan Am
Kaela Davis (Georgia Tech/S. Carolina)
Nina Davis (Baylor) - WUG
Diamond DeShields (Tennessee) - WUG
Allisha Gray (UNC/S. Carolina)
Rebecca Greenwell (Duke) - WUG
Aliyyah Handford (St. John's)
Linnae Harper (Kentucky) - Pan Am
Alexa Hart (Ohio St.)
Katie Hempen (AZ St.)
Myisha Hines-Allen (Louisville)
Bria Holmes (W. Virginia)
Jessica Jackson (Arkansas)
Tori Jankoska (Michigan St)
Moriah Jefferson (UCONN) - Pan Am
Mercedes Jefflo (California)
Alisia Jenkins (S. Florida)
Chanise Jenkins (DePaul) - WUG
Kaylee Johnson (Stanford)
Alexis Jones (Baylor)
Brionna Jones (Maryland) - WUG
Jasmine Joyner (Chattanooga)
Whitney Knight (FGCU)
Kelsey Lang (Texas)
Stephanie Mavunga (UNC/?) - Pan Am
Erica McCall (Stanford) - WUG
Imani McGee-Stafford (Texas)
Kelsey Mitchell (Ohio St)
Tiffany Mitchell (S. Carolina) - Pan Am
Adrenne Motley (Miami)
Kelsey Plum (Washington) - Pan Am
Aerial Powers (Michigan St.) - WUG
Courtney Range (California) - WUG
Taya Reimer (Notre Dame) - Pan Am
Mercedes Russell (Tennessee) - WUG
Ivey Slaughter (Florida St)
Breanna Stewart (UCONN) - Pan Am
Annie Tarkchian (Princeton)
Lili Thompson (Stanford)
Victorina Vivians (Mississippi St.)
Courtney Walker (Texas A&M)
Shatori Walker-Kimbrough (Maryland) - Pan Am
Caira Washington (George Washington)
Sydney Wiese (Oregon St) - WUG
Courtney B Williams (Texas A&M) - Pan Am
Courtney M Williams (S. Florida) - WUG
Kaylon Williams (Oklahoma)

Anybody else you can think of was not at the tryouts. Either by their choice or the committee's.

 

[lne001]

Canada is not one of the Elite Sr Women's Teams. However they have made great strides in their overall WBB program. This team is being slowly built to be a factor in future World Championships and Olympics. Canada may never have the quality of player that USA produces, but you can bet they will play as a team and that alone will get them some wins. They won last night because they were the better team.

Can agree with the above 100%. You'll have to excuse me. I'm an old cynic who has never gotten acclimated to today's excessive hyperbole.

 

[UcMiami]

They are ranked 1oth, right behind Belarus, and this includes their 5th place finish in the Worlds, . They were just given a good game at home by a group of college players who had a couple weeks to practice. Not my definition of a very good senior national team.

By this reasoning Zack Johnson is ranked 1st in the world because he won his latest tournament.

The world rankings cover a large period of history while national teams change more quickly. Russia is currently ranked #5 but has failed to even qualify for next years Olympics - they can still claim to be the 5th best team in the World, but they might not be the fifth best team in Europe currently. Canada is clearly better now than their #10 ranking and the team has great cohesion - all the major players have been together for two years, and they are adding quality young depth in Fields and Natalie replacing less skilled older players.

 

[meyers7]

They are ranked 1oth, right behind Belarus, and this includes their 5th place finish in the Worlds, . They were just given a good game at home by a group of college players who had a couple weeks to practice. Not my definition of a very good senior national team.

Well rankings don't really mean all that much. It is more what have you done for me lately. And Canada has come in 5th in the WCs (last year), where did Belarus come in? (10th?), and won Gold at the Pan Am games. That makes a pretty good team.

 

[meyers7]

Can agree with the above 100%. You'll have to excuse me. I'm an old cynic who has never gotten acclimated to today's excessive hyperbole.

Talk about excessive hyperbole. SMH

 

[lne001]

For ha-ha's, here is the roster for the 2011 Pan Am team, which finished 7th.

Shante Evans (Hofstra)
Christine Flores (Missouri)
Tavelyn James (Eastern Michigan)
Emilie Johnson (UC Santa Barbara)
Marissa Kastanek (North Carolina State)
Kevi Luper (Oral Roberts)
Valencia McFarland (Mississippi)
Katelan Redmon (Gonzaga)
Kayla Standish (Gonzaga)
April Sykes (Rutgers)
Avery Warley (Liberty)
Breanna Stewart (Cicero-North)

 

[lne001]

Well rankings don't really mean all that much. It is more what have you done for me lately. And Canada has come in 5th in the WCs (last year), where did Belarus come in? (10th?), and won Gold at the Pan Am games. That makes a pretty good team.

No, no it doesn't.

 

[lne001]

The world rankings cover a large period of history while national teams change more quickly. Russia is currently ranked #5 but has failed to even qualify for next years Olympics - they can still claim to be the 5th best team in the World, but they might not be the fifth best team in Europe currently. Canada is clearly better now than their #10 ranking and the team has great cohesion - all the major players have been together for two years, and they are adding quality young depth in Fields and Natalie replacing less skilled older players.

The rankings are calculated over a rolling four year span, not my definition of a 'large period of history'. Why is Canada clearly better than their #10 ranking? They beat two teams ranked higher than them in this tournament, Brazil and the US, at home. Both these teams were missing their best players. Who was Canada missing? We'll see what Brazil team Canada faces in September.

Virtually all teams are replacing older veterans with young depth as the game grows internationally.

Hey, I hope Canada does well in the future. I'm not ready to anoint them as the second coming just yet.

 

[meyers7]

No, no it doesn't.

Well you'll just have to be wrong.

 

[meyers7]

The world rankings cover a large period of history while national teams change more quickly. Russia is currently ranked #5 but has failed to even qualify for next years Olympics - they can still claim to be the 5th best team in the World, but they might not be the fifth best team in Europe currently. Canada is clearly better now than their #10 ranking and the team has great cohesion - all the major players have been together for two years, and they are adding quality young depth in Fields and Natalie replacing less skilled older players.

Ine001 obviously has his own ranking system.

 

[lne001]

Well you'll just have to be wrong.

OK

 

[CocoHusky]

Mitchell shoud have been replaced on the team once it was determine that she would not be available for any of the games. Another good outside shooter was badly needed Greenwell would have been my choice or Gray formerly of UNC.

 

[UcMiami]

Mitchell shoud have been replaced on the team once it was determine that she would not be available for any of the games. Another good outside shooter was badly needed Greenwell would have been my choice or Gray formerly of UNC.

It was very short notice for a very short tournament - she was injured in the last scrimmage I think two days before the first game and it probably took at least 24 hours to determine how bad the sprain was.

Ine001 - that PanAm competition was Oct 14-30 and none of the major colleges wanted to release their players or the players themselves didn't want to leave for the competition and the pros were all overseas.

 

[Intpseeker]

I'm shocked, shocked I say. Team USA allowed A UConn non-starter, according to other threads here, to administer an ol' fashion butt whupping.

Silly sarcasm aside, I have been amazed at the lack of respect for Kia from some here. Stewie, Mo, Tuck, Nurse and a fifth. Those are your starters.

 

[UConnCat]

At the World Championships in Turkey last year, Canada lost to Turkey (by 11), France (by 4) and Australia (by 11) and defeated Mozambique, Czech Republic, France and China. The 5th place finish was higher than most expected Canada to finish but they've taken that good showing and built on it. Canada's goal is to medal at the Olympics. That's ambitious, but I would not be surprised with another good showing in Rio next year. I'm impressed with how far Team Canada has come.

 

[UConnCat]

Comments from Lisa Bluder post game seem right on, though I'd say she had the bodies, what she needed was players. That tournament was a grind and USA Basketball needs to remember that when putting together teams. There were several players who weren't prepared for that rock fight.

They went to their zone defense, and we struggled against their zone. Their zone hurt us. But, we went through a lot of adversity with this game – injuries, foul problems. We just did not have enough bodies to compete against them.

But we had too many turnovers tonight again. I feel like if we had more bodies, I think we would have been in better shape.

Being a UConn kid and having the two UConn players on our team, Bre (Breanna Stewart) and Mo (Moriah Jefferson). I thought Kia Nurse just played really, really well tonight. Just strong, aggressive and with the depth that they have and as many players as they play, it got her a little bit more rest during the week than we were able to give our players.

 

[lanieer]

The Olympics will be an entirely different story for most teams. Canada was able to use their entire National Team other than the coach. That was not the case with five other quality teams. As they said at the end of the game this was not a guarantee that Canada would qualify for the Olympic finals and they will not be playing at home. They only beat P Rico by three. USA was young inexperienced and tired due to the physical play of Canada on the fifth straight day. Tina Charles in the post with Candace Parker will be a different story.

 

[dtbtbtb]

call me crazy but IMO if Tuck would have been on this team (and i'm happy she took the summer off) instead of Reimer, the US would have won the game as Tuck can do a lot of the things that were missing for this team (good passing, ability to score inside and out, ability to defend in the front court, toughness) and I still don’t understand what was the thinking with having MoJeff as the only PG for this team (Plum, Coyer, Harper and Mitchel are not PG’s) for a 5 days in a row kind of tournament….

 

[triaddukefan]

Mitchell shoud have been replaced on the team once it was determine that she would not be available for any of the games. Another good outside shooter was badly needed Greenwell would have been my choice or Gray formerly of UNC.

They put Greenwell on the WUG squad ... but she had to pull out due to illness. Perhaps she would have been healthy enough to play on this squad. In retrospect, I would have loved to see what she could do with a great PG (Jefferson) and Stewart commanding all that attention. Gray definitely could have been an asset as well.

 

[Boreifs]

Comments from Lisa Bluder post game seem right on, though I'd say she had the bodies, what she needed was players. That tournament was a grind and USA Basketball needs to remember that when putting together teams. There were several players who weren't prepared for that rock fight.

They went to their zone defense, and we struggled against their zone. Their zone hurt us. But, we went through a lot of adversity with this game – injuries, foul problems. We just did not have enough bodies to compete against them.

But we had too many turnovers tonight again. I feel like if we had more bodies, I think we would have been in better shape.

Being a UConn kid and having the two UConn players on our team, Bre (Breanna Stewart) and Mo (Moriah Jefferson). I thought Kia Nurse just played really, really well tonight. Just strong, aggressive and with the depth that they have and as many players as they play, it got her a little bit more rest during the week than we were able to give our players.

Bluder had the bodies; she just chose not to use them. One can complain until the cows come home about the lack of a bench on this team, but it was the coach's choice to only play seven people and let the other four sit. Williams actually started the first game of this tournament, but didn't play one minute last night. The U.S. was going to be in the medal round for sure; in those first two non-competitive games, the coach needed to use all 11 players, but chose not to do that. In a tournament with five games in five days, that was a ridiculously poor decision on her part. Did she disagree with the selection committee and choose to punish the players she didn't want? Only Lisa Bluder knows, and she is unlikely to ever reveal the reasons for not utilizing her full roster.
In contrast, the Canadian coach used all 12 players almost equally, even in the tough game against the Cubans. As a result, they blew the tired Brazilian squad out of the gym and were able to rest their best players for the Gold Medal game.

 

[UConnCat]

Bluder had the bodies; she just chose not to use them. One can complain until the cows come home about the lack of a bench on this team, but it was the coach's choice to only play seven people and let the other four sit. Williams actually started the first game of this tournament, but didn't play one minute last night. The U.S. was going to be in the medal round for sure; in those first two non-competitive games, the coach needed to use all 11 players, but chose not to do that. In a tournament with five games in five days, that was a ridiculously poor decision on her part. Did she disagree with the selection committee and choose to punish the players she didn't want? Only Lisa Bluder knows, and she is unlikely to ever reveal the reasons for not utilizing her full roster.
In contrast, the Canadian coach used all 12 players almost equally, even in the tough game against the Cubans. As a result, they blew the tired Brazilian squad out of the gym and were able to rest their best players for the Gold Medal game.

Most of USA's bench was not ready for that level of competition. It's that simple. Williams, Plum and the others were out of their depth. They played in the one blow-out game but were not ready at all for the level of play in the other games.

The entire Canadian roster had competed in tough international games against senior national teams. They were more prepared in every sense.

 

[Orangutan]

Comments from Lisa Bluder post game seem right on, though I'd say she had the bodies, what she needed was players. That tournament was a grind and USA Basketball needs to remember that when putting together teams. There were several players who weren't prepared for that rock fight.

I'd say she was short on both, bodies and players. As to bodies, she only had 11 and didn't use Courtney Williams (unreported injury, maybe?), so she was drawing from a pool of 10. As to players, as unimpressive as some of the USA players were (Harper, Reimer, Mavunga), I suspect they played so much because the alternatives were worse and nothing Plum, Brunner, or Coyer did disabused me of that notion.

That said, Bluder's substitution patterns, or lack thereof, were puzzling. Even if the backups are bad you have to at least try to get Jefferson and Stewart some rest. 38 minutes (for Stewart) is too much for anyone in the final of such a compressed tournament.

 

[meyers7]

Bluder had the bodies; she just chose not to use them. One can complain until the cows come home about the lack of a bench on this team, but it was the coach's choice to only play seven people and let the other four sit. Williams actually started the first game of this tournament, but didn't play one minute last night. The U.S. was going to be in the medal round for sure; in those first two non-competitive games, the coach needed to use all 11 players, but chose not to do that. In a tournament with five games in five days, that was a ridiculously poor decision on her part. Did she disagree with the selection committee and choose to punish the players she didn't want? Only Lisa Bluder knows, and she is unlikely to ever reveal the reasons for not utilizing her full roster.
In contrast, the Canadian coach used all 12 players almost equally, even in the tough game against the Cubans. As a result, they blew the tired Brazilian squad out of the gym and were able to rest their best players for the Gold Medal game.

Well the Brazil game, for the US, was a competitive game. First game of the tourney and Brazil wasn't tired. The second game, Bluder did rest her players. But after that, she needed her top players to keep advancing. I think the reason she didn't use the bench more was, they weren't good enough to help the team win.

 

[Bigpetunia]

I'm kinda thinking, hoping, Williams will be our 5th starter this year. We'll see.

I'm kinda thinking, hoping similarly. One just can't help that the potential is pretty unlimited, given her uncommon athleticism. She, like so many before her, made a ton of Freshman mistakes, but the template for making a big Sophomore leap is well-established. I know there is a lot of sentiment out there that favors Butler in that spot, but none of us have seen her play in this stepped-up environment, and I plead ignorance about what we should reasonably expect. But, having said that, whether by design or accident I think Geno found a "formula" last year that he really likes...coming out of the gate quickly with his fastest, most athletic and aggressive players, then bringing the big defensive and rebounding presence off the bench at the right time. By the end of the day, I suspect she and Gabby will have similar total minutes.

 

[UcMiami]

I'm kinda thinking, hoping similarly. One just can't help that the potential is pretty unlimited, given her uncommon athleticism. She, like so many before her, made a ton of Freshman mistakes, but the template for making a big Sophomore leap is well-established. I know there is a lot of sentiment out there that favors Butler in that spot, but none of us have seen her play in this stepped-up environment, and I plead ignorance about what we should reasonably expect. But, having said that, whether by design or accident I think Geno found a "formula" last year that he really likes...coming out of the gate quickly with his fastest, most athletic and aggressive players, then bringing the big defensive and rebounding presence off the bench at the right time. By the end of the day, I suspect she and Gabby will have similar total minutes.

What I liked about Williams most was her incredible accuracy around the basket on less than simple shots - getting the angles off the board right all the time. There is a young lady on the U19 with the same kind of freak athleticism but she cannot buy a lay-up most of the time!

I think the early season is going to be a huge experimentation time to figure out the best starting line-up - last year it was small and offensive minded, the year before it was big with Stef who was offensive minded as well. Reports are that Butler is more in the mold of Stef than Kiah being both a strong rebounder and a decent scorer as a freshman. I personally favor the big lineup because I think it relieves wear on Stewart and Tuck - neither of whom you really want banging on the blocks all game on defense - they can do it and do it well, but ... especially against teams with a Coates like center it is really tough.

If the shorter lineup is used, then the competition for the fifth starter is really going to be hot - Williams, Collier, and Samuelson all bring different things to the table with Lou being the closest thing to a direct replacement for KML's skill set. If last years team is Geno's template than Lou is probably the starter for her spot up threes (though she brings a lot of other skills as well. )

 

[Gus Mahler]

Someone must have some very compromising photos of a USA selection committee member for Coyer and Brunner and Plum to have been selected and two roster spots virtually wasted.

Don't get too excited Canada, you just beat a poorly selected bunch of kids with 3 weeks practice under their belt. Is it just me, or do Stewie and Moriah look like the only USA players who are really pissed and angry with this result?? I cannot wait for Rio when Maya and BG will destroy this bunch by 40 points.

Put me down for feeling that way (Stewie and Moriah). I'll bet they're mad for losing and more than a little disenchanted with their teammates.

 

[UConnCat]

I'm kinda thinking, hoping similarly. One just can't help that the potential is pretty unlimited, given her uncommon athleticism. She, like so many before her, made a ton of Freshman mistakes, but the template for making a big Sophomore leap is well-established. I know there is a lot of sentiment out there that favors Butler in that spot, but none of us have seen her play in this stepped-up environment, and I plead ignorance about what we should reasonably expect. But, having said that, whether by design or accident I think Geno found a "formula" last year that he really likes...coming out of the gate quickly with his fastest, most athletic and aggressive players, then bringing the big defensive and rebounding presence off the bench at the right time. By the end of the day, I suspect she and Gabby will have similar total minutes.

I've said before that whoever the 5th starter is (I'm leaning towards Williams) it won't be Butler. A lineup with Stewart, Butler and Tuck wouldn't play at the pace Geno wants to play at and creates defensive problems against teams with 3-4 guards. Plus, there would be no post player with size on the bench if there's foul trouble. Starting Butler on next season's team doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. Geno may go with the big lineup for spurts but I can not see him starting out with that lineup. Not athletic and quick enough.