Pan Am Title Game

[meyers7]

Bluder had the bodies; she just chose not to use them. One can complain until the cows come home about the lack of a bench on this team, but it was the coach's choice to only play seven people and let the other four sit. Williams actually started the first game of this tournament, but didn't play one minute last night. The U.S. was going to be in the medal round for sure; in those first two non-competitive games, the coach needed to use all 11 players, but chose not to do that. In a tournament with five games in five days, that was a ridiculously poor decision on her part. Did she disagree with the selection committee and choose to punish the players she didn't want? Only Lisa Bluder knows, and she is unlikely to ever reveal the reasons for not utilizing her full roster.
In contrast, the Canadian coach used all 12 players almost equally, even in the tough game against the Cubans. As a result, they blew the tired Brazilian squad out of the gym and were able to rest their best players for the Gold Medal game.

Well the Brazil game, for the US, was a competitive game. First game of the tourney and Brazil wasn't tired. The second game, Bluder did rest her players. But after that, she needed her top players to keep advancing. I think the reason she didn't use the bench more was, they weren't good enough to help the team win.

 

[Bigpetunia]

I'm kinda thinking, hoping, Williams will be our 5th starter this year. We'll see.

I'm kinda thinking, hoping similarly. One just can't help that the potential is pretty unlimited, given her uncommon athleticism. She, like so many before her, made a ton of Freshman mistakes, but the template for making a big Sophomore leap is well-established. I know there is a lot of sentiment out there that favors Butler in that spot, but none of us have seen her play in this stepped-up environment, and I plead ignorance about what we should reasonably expect. But, having said that, whether by design or accident I think Geno found a "formula" last year that he really likes...coming out of the gate quickly with his fastest, most athletic and aggressive players, then bringing the big defensive and rebounding presence off the bench at the right time. By the end of the day, I suspect she and Gabby will have similar total minutes.

 

[UcMiami]

I'm kinda thinking, hoping similarly. One just can't help that the potential is pretty unlimited, given her uncommon athleticism. She, like so many before her, made a ton of Freshman mistakes, but the template for making a big Sophomore leap is well-established. I know there is a lot of sentiment out there that favors Butler in that spot, but none of us have seen her play in this stepped-up environment, and I plead ignorance about what we should reasonably expect. But, having said that, whether by design or accident I think Geno found a "formula" last year that he really likes...coming out of the gate quickly with his fastest, most athletic and aggressive players, then bringing the big defensive and rebounding presence off the bench at the right time. By the end of the day, I suspect she and Gabby will have similar total minutes.

What I liked about Williams most was her incredible accuracy around the basket on less than simple shots - getting the angles off the board right all the time. There is a young lady on the U19 with the same kind of freak athleticism but she cannot buy a lay-up most of the time!

I think the early season is going to be a huge experimentation time to figure out the best starting line-up - last year it was small and offensive minded, the year before it was big with Stef who was offensive minded as well. Reports are that Butler is more in the mold of Stef than Kiah being both a strong rebounder and a decent scorer as a freshman. I personally favor the big lineup because I think it relieves wear on Stewart and Tuck - neither of whom you really want banging on the blocks all game on defense - they can do it and do it well, but ... especially against teams with a Coates like center it is really tough.

If the shorter lineup is used, then the competition for the fifth starter is really going to be hot - Williams, Collier, and Samuelson all bring different things to the table with Lou being the closest thing to a direct replacement for KML's skill set. If last years team is Geno's template than Lou is probably the starter for her spot up threes (though she brings a lot of other skills as well. )

 

[Gus Mahler]

Someone must have some very compromising photos of a USA selection committee member for Coyer and Brunner and Plum to have been selected and two roster spots virtually wasted.

Don't get too excited Canada, you just beat a poorly selected bunch of kids with 3 weeks practice under their belt. Is it just me, or do Stewie and Moriah look like the only USA players who are really pissed and angry with this result?? I cannot wait for Rio when Maya and BG will destroy this bunch by 40 points.

Put me down for feeling that way (Stewie and Moriah). I'll bet they're mad for losing and more than a little disenchanted with their teammates.

 

[UConnCat]

I'm kinda thinking, hoping similarly. One just can't help that the potential is pretty unlimited, given her uncommon athleticism. She, like so many before her, made a ton of Freshman mistakes, but the template for making a big Sophomore leap is well-established. I know there is a lot of sentiment out there that favors Butler in that spot, but none of us have seen her play in this stepped-up environment, and I plead ignorance about what we should reasonably expect. But, having said that, whether by design or accident I think Geno found a "formula" last year that he really likes...coming out of the gate quickly with his fastest, most athletic and aggressive players, then bringing the big defensive and rebounding presence off the bench at the right time. By the end of the day, I suspect she and Gabby will have similar total minutes.

I've said before that whoever the 5th starter is (I'm leaning towards Williams) it won't be Butler. A lineup with Stewart, Butler and Tuck wouldn't play at the pace Geno wants to play at and creates defensive problems against teams with 3-4 guards. Plus, there would be no post player with size on the bench if there's foul trouble. Starting Butler on next season's team doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. Geno may go with the big lineup for spurts but I can not see him starting out with that lineup. Not athletic and quick enough.

 

[RadyLady]

Congrats to Canada. I think they realize they didn't beat the USA's Senior Nat'l team. They've been looking forward to this moment for a long time and they should enjoy it in front of the home crowd. Just because they didn't beat the best US team doesn't mean they shouldn't enjoy their success.

Congrats to the US team for its silver medal. They went up against other countries' senior national teams -- including a team that finished 5th in the World Championships and keeps improving -- and learned what it's like to play physical, international ball where the calls aren't going to go your way. They made it to the gold medal game and lost to a better team that's been playing together for a couple of years. There's no shame in this result.

The US wasn't deep enough. The loss of Tiffany Mitchell really hurt. There are several good players who declined. There are several good players who didn't make the team. There are several good players who played on the WUG team. The selection committee is accountable for the teams. The lack of depth hurt a team that played 5 games in 5 days -- not even the WC or Olympic games schedule that way. The schedulers favored the home team by forcing the US to always play the late game, except when they could screw them with an afternoon game after the late game. Oh well.

Breanna said she wants to make the Olympic team in Rio. She was reminded of just how physical the international game is and how much stronger she needs to get. She wore down but did herself proud. She kept fighting and played pretty darn well. Moriah is a warrior and I hope she's okay.

Nurse will be at UConn for the next 3 years. She's tough as nails. I hope she has many moments like tonight while wearing a UConn jersey.

what Cat said

 

[CocoHusky]

It was very short notice for a very short tournament - she was injured in the last scrimmage I think two days before the first game and it probably took at least 24 hours to determine how bad the sprain was.

Yes but these games were in Toronto not half way across the world. USA knew the schedule of 5 games in 5 days. How long would it take to get a player to toronto? 1 day at most, so best case you have that replacement player available for 4 of 5 games. Greenwell lives in KY and Gray is from Georgia. The only excuse I can buy is if rosters had to be locked before the start of the tournament.

 

[Alydar]

They are ranked 1oth, right behind Belarus, and this includes their 5th place finish in the Worlds, . They were just given a good game at home by a group of college players who had a couple weeks to practice. Not my definition of a very good senior national team.

By this reasoning Zack Johnson is ranked 1st in the world because he won his latest tournament.

They finished 5th in the worlds last year in actual competition. The reason they fell to 10th is because they play in the FIBA America section against weaker opponents than the European section. Rankings are based on who you play and beat. It is a lot like NCAA rankings. Unless you play other high ranking teams you can't get one yourself. Canada may surprise a lot of teams next year in Rio. Nurse, Fields and Achonwa can only get better. I'm not saying they are good enough to medal but I think they can make the final eight.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

Afterwards, Auriemma, who made the trip north, found his way to center court to spend time with both Stewart and Nurse in a heartwarming moment. then gave Jefferson a big hug. Last night, he was a winner either way. But there was no doubt in his or anyone else's mind that the best team won.


http://www.bluestarmedia.org/index....ies-star-power-for-canadian-womens-basketball

 

[Bigpetunia]

I've said before that whoever the 5th starter is (I'm leaning towards Williams) it won't be Butler. A lineup with Stewart, Butler and Tuck wouldn't play at the pace Geno wants to play at and creates defensive problems against teams with 3-4 guards. Plus, there would be no post player with size on the bench if there's foul trouble. Starting Butler on next season's team doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. Geno may go with the big lineup for spurts but I can not see him starting out with that lineup. Not athletic and quick enough.

One of the things that has always impressed me most about the best coaches in basketball (and more in basketball than in any other sport) is the ability to get players to accept certain roles, rather than necessarily being all-around contributors...like Kiah did apparently happily last year...and like, I suspect, Natalie will this year.

 

[Intpseeker]

So small lineup would be:

1-Mo
2-Kia
3-Stewie or Gabby
4-Stewie or Gabby
5-Tuck

Is that what folks are thinking?

 

[Kibitzer]

Afterwards, Auriemma, who made the trip north, found his way to center court to spend time with both Stewart and Nurse in a heartwarming moment. then gave Jefferson a big hug. Last night, he was a winner either way. But there was no doubt in his or anyone else's mind that the best team won.


http://www.bluestarmedia.org/index....ies-star-power-for-canadian-womens-basketball

In the linked article, Canada coach Lisa Thomaidis was quoted as saying:

"Kia [Nurse] has the heart of a champion."​

No one should ever underestimate her.

 

[Alydar]

So small lineup would be:

1-Mo
2-Kia
3-Stewie or Gabby
4-Stewie or Gabby
5-Tuck

Is that what folks are thinking?

To me there is too much emphasis on height in determining whether a lineup is big or small.

Is a lineup of Stewart, Tuck, Samuelson (6'3") Kia & Mo "bigger" than one of

Stewart, Tuck, Gabby (5'11"), Kia & Mo ?

I don't think so. 5'11" Williams would play much "bigger" than willowy 6'3" Samuelson. In fact I wouldn't call a lineup of

1-Mo 2-Kia 3-Stewie or Gabby 4-Stewie or Gabby 5-Tuck small at all.

I myself subscribe to the idea that without Butler coming in from the bench there is no one to replace either Tuck or Stewart at the 5. Of course this is all gross speculation since we have yet to see Butler play nor have we seen the freshmen yet. Add in that Williams is being looked at to play on the perimeter more. I can't discount her playing 2/3. If anyone had predicted her success at the 4 last summer they would have been called a dreamer. Personally, I see both Williams and Butler coming in off the bench, Butler because of the lack of any other option to backup at the 5 and Williams because she if she gains some guard skills she can come in as a 2/3/4 giving Geno a lot of options.

 

[CocoHusky]

To me there is too much emphasis on height in determining whether a lineup is big or small.

Is a lineup of Stewart, Tuck, Samuelson (6'3") Kia & Mo "bigger" than one of

Stewart, Tuck, Gabby (5'11"), Kia & Mo ?

I don't think so. 5'11" Williams would play much "bigger" than willowy 6'3" Samuelson. In fact I wouldn't call a lineup of

1-Mo 2-Kia 3-Stewie or Gabby 4-Stewie or Gabby 5-Tuck small at all.

I myself subscribe to the idea that without Butler coming in from the bench there is no one to replace either Tuck or Stewart at the 5. Of course this is all gross speculation since we have yet to see Butler play nor have we seen the freshmen yet. Add in that Williams is being looked at to play on the perimeter more. I can't discount her playing 2/3. If anyone had predicted her success at the 4 last summer they would have been called a dreamer. Personally, I see both Williams and Butler coming in off the bench, Butler because of the lack of any other option to backup at the 5 and Williams because she if she gains some guard skills she can come in as a 2/3/4 giving Geno a lot of options.

At least 1 person predicted Gabby's success. When I saw that in print dreamer was not what I called Bret McCormick.

Bret McCormick ‏@ASGR1995 29 Mar 2013
@cterrier100 this big get. She (Gabby) can play positions 1-4. She should impact like Maya Moore or Diana Tarausi.
4:15 PM - 29 Mar 2013 · Details

 

[hoophuskee]

I've said before that whoever the 5th starter is (I'm leaning towards Williams) it won't be Butler. A lineup with Stewart, Butler and Tuck wouldn't play at the pace Geno wants to play at and creates defensive problems against teams with 3-4 guards. Plus, there would be no post player with size on the bench if there's foul trouble. Starting Butler on next season's team doesn't make a lot of sense for a lot of reasons. Geno may go with the big lineup for spurts but I can not see him starting out with that lineup. Not athletic and quick enough.

I don't agree. UCONN should have a fine running game with Butler.

First off MoJeff and Nurse can push hard and should be even better this year. You have two quality guards - one is super-supreme and the other "terrific" that can handle pushing the ball. Two terrific guards like UCONN has- you can easily push pace while having someone like Stewie as a wing.

And regardless who the sf is, that sf can get up the court quicker than KML. And both (Stewie and Tuck) can pass. So Geno should still be able to push pace with Butler.

Secondly, imo Geno also likes to have his bench change pace. I would think changing pace to speed is more preferable than change the pace to slow the game down. OFC that is an arguable point. I think he prefers having a John Hondo Havlicek as a 6th man rather than a Paul Silas/Kevin McHale (Geno has often expressed his love of change of pace 6th men - and the old Celtics teams.). Heck - he didn't even start Maya when she 1st came. It took him one of the last games of season (ncaa's) to not start CDoty though I admit Dolson was playing with a fractured foot "to boot" so that teams wasn't looking to push as much pace - maybe - I can't remember. Anyhow- all arguable points - either way.

Third- I don't think it a big deal regarding fouls. The 1st one that gets two fouls goes to the bench. You're not going to get challenged much this year, Stewie and Tuck can handle being "smart." THAT imo will be expected of them. They're upperclassmen and have a ton more talent than nearly all - with that goes "expectation."

I think it makes sense to start Butler then go small to change the pace. Stewie's 3pt shot as a sf should be much more effective this year. And Tuck shouldn't be as bad shooting as she was the 1st two months. It all depends if Butler is good in both offense and defense. UCONN is blowing nearly every team out- foul trouble (ie reacting to another opponent) can be a concern but imo will be a very little concern. As we've heard CD say many times - "we want teams to adjust to us."

IMO if Butler is good offensively and defensively, she starts. Have our two best guards work on getting the ball in the paint - and make the game easier for the big kid. The other three wings can make plays on their own in their sleep. Work on hammering the team with size early.

I think the starting position is Butler's to win. As usual it will come down to "trust" - and at that point I can't say for sure it will be Butler. If she is a foul=prone machine and team can't find a rhythm often for example, then she's on the bench. My moneyis on Butler.

 

[CocoHusky]

Not Sure this has been mentioned before but that Canadian National Team coach would make one hell of a NCAA coach IMO. I really admired the spacing and she always a cutter going to the basket.

 

[triaddukefan]

Yes but these games were in Toronto not half way across the world. USA knew the schedule of 5 games in 5 days. How long would it take to get a player to toronto? 1 day at most, so best case you have that replacement player available for 4 of 5 games. Greenwell lives in KY and Gray is from Georgia. The only excuse I can buy is if rosters had to be locked before the start of the tournament.

Whatever illness Greenwell had... she seems to be better. She's in Durham working out with the team.

 

[Phillyconn]

Congrats to Canada. They were the better TEAM. They played like UConn Huskies.
Congrats to USA also. They lost to one of the top 10 teams in the world on their home court. The USA didn't have the depth of quality to play 5 straight days and win against tough physical teams.

Normally when I think of USA basketball winning silver medals, I associate it with failure. In this case I consider it a success that should be admired.

I will not criticize any individuals because I did not see any "quit" in any players. What I saw was a USA team that didn't know how to overcome the Canadians and were physically and mentally fatigued. As th saying goes "fatigue makes cowards of us all".

Or in the case of UConn, "pushes you to greatness"

 

[Alydar]

At least 1 person predicted Gabby's success. When I saw that in print dreamer was not what I called Bret McCormick.

Bret McCormick ‏@ASGR1995 29 Mar 2013
@cterrier100 this big get. She (Gabby) can play positions 1-4. She should impact like Maya Moore or Diana Tarausi.
4:15 PM - 29 Mar 2013 · Details

Yeah, I read his comments at the time too. Notice that it was written in March 2013, prior to both her ACL injuries. I remember him saying that she was one of the best talents, if not the best he had ever seen. But he was alone among the ranking services. Most questioned whether she would even play last season at all, given her history of knee problems. And many had the opinion that she was merely playing against mediocre HS teams.

 

[Phillyconn]

Congrats to Canada. They were the better TEAM. They played like UConn Huskies.
Congrats to USA also. They lost to one of the top 10 teams in the world on their home court. The USA didn't have the depth of quality to play 5 straight days and win against tough physical teams.

Normally when I think of USA basketball winning silver medals, I associate it with failure. In this case I consider it a success that should be admired.

I will not criticize any individuals because I did not see any "quit" in any players. What I saw was a USA team that didn't know how to overcome the Canadians and were physically and mentally fatigued. As th saying goes "fatigue makes cowards of us all".

Maybe no quit, but a serious lack of fundamentals. Mavunga, Riemer and Coates have no idea how to play D, they couldn't even set a decent pick as big as they are. Most of the players are at or near AA status. With the exception of our girls, the players on this team looked lost at times. Very disheartening. Screw the Canadians, they'll get theirs.

 

[Gus Mahler]

Maybe no quit, but a serious lack of fundamentals. Mavunga, Riemer and Coates have no idea how to play D, they couldn't even set a decent pick as big as they are. Most of the players are at or near AA status. With the exception of our girls, the players on this team looked lost at times. Very disheartening. Screw the Canadians, they'll get theirs.

I agree with you on the part about looking lost. More important, the lack of fundamentals. More important, those bigs didn't always look like they were playing hard. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I don't think they lived up to their reps.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

But he was alone among the ranking services.

Blue Star ranked her 6th in the class, and I don't think she had any connection to Flynn. Amazing thing is all these rankings were done assuming she'd be a guard.

 

[UcMiami]

To me there is too much emphasis on height in determining whether a lineup is big or small.

I used 'big' specifically and not 'tall' because they are two distinct characteristics of basketball players - specific to Uconn, Tuck is 'bigger' than Stewart though she isn't as tall nor as long - Generally last year Tuck played center and Stewart played forward on defense because of that. Similarly Stokes also played center though she too is shorter than Stewart.

And just because Lou is a great three point shooter does not mean that she doesn't have low-post game - she is quite impressive going to the basket and while she doesn't have the leaping ability of Williams she is not rooted to the floor and with her height and arm length is probably starting 6 inches above Williams so I would not classify either as 'big', their 'bigness' is about the same in my mind.

While in many games next year Uconn could start anybody and win, there are going to be a number of games against teams with a real low post center - a Coates type player. Having a comparably 'big' player in Butler to take and dish some physical punishment in the low post and relieve Tuck and Stewart of some of that pain is a good thing.

As for fouls and not having a 'big' on the bench - Uconn had three players who could play center last year and they have three this year. The advantage this year is they have deeper bench strength in players that can play the 3/4 positions should it be necessary to cover for foul issue to any of those three. Whether they start or not, they still only have 15 fouls at that position.

 

[Alydar]

I used 'big' specifically and not 'tall' because they are two distinct characteristics of basketball players - specific to Uconn, Tuck is 'bigger' than Stewart though she isn't as tall nor as long - Generally last year Tuck played center and Stewart played forward on defense because of that. Similarly Stokes also played center though she too is shorter than Stewart.

And just because Lou is a great three point shooter does not mean that she doesn't have low-post game - she is quite impressive going to the basket and while she doesn't have the leaping ability of Williams she is not rooted to the floor and with her height and arm length is probably starting 6 inches above Williams so I would not classify either as 'big', their 'bigness' is about the same in my mind.

While in many games next year Uconn could start anybody and win, there are going to be a number of games against teams with a real low post center - a Coates type player. Having a comparably 'big' player in Butler to take and dish some physical punishment in the low post and relieve Tuck and Stewart of some of that pain is a good thing.

As for fouls and not having a 'big' on the bench - Uconn had three players who could play center last year and they have three this year. The advantage this year is they have deeper bench strength in players that can play the 3/4 positions should it be necessary to cover for foul issue to any of those three. Whether they start or not, they still only have 15 fouls at that position.

I don't disagree with anything you said. My original post was due to what I felt was a description of the front court of Stewart/Tuck and Williams as being small. It would be just as big as last year's front court starters who did OK against even SC's massive size. I agree that Butler is a better matchup size-wise against Coates, but there aren't many that size on UConn's schedule (or even in the country). Teams are fortunate to have a player more like Reimer's size and both Tuck and Stewart can handle her.

If Butler develops into a reasonable facsimile of Dolson as a sophomore she may well start. And she may start over Tuck. The thing is, UConn has more options this year than in a long long time. Now a lot of those options are unproven as yet but there are so many of them. The "who should start/who should get minutes" threads will be endless come October.

 

[Sluconn Husky]

If Butler develops into a reasonable facsimile of Dolson as a sophomore she may well start. And she may start over Tuck.

There's a better chance of Geno and Muffet doing the foxtrot.